The Mark Jackson Disaster: 76ers 105 Warriors 83

After this blowout loss to the 76ers, Mark Jackson once again threw his Warriors team under the bus.  “We didn’t come out of the locker room [at halftime] with the right mindset,” said the Preacher.  For once I might have to agree with Jackson.  The Warriors came out of the locker room with the wrong mindset entirely.

They came out of the locker room with the wrong lineup, the wrong philosophy, and the wrong gameplan.               

There are two types of teams that regularly eat 20 point blowouts in the NBA.  There are teams that have no talent for the game:  Low basketball IQs, poor passing and shooting ability, poor athleticism, selfish attitudes, no desire to compete, no passion for winning.

And then there are teams who have coaches who don’t know what the hell they are doing.

I don’t think there is any question which kind of team these Warriors are.

Dominic McGuire:  I don’t have anything against Dom.  In fact I love the ferocity with which he competes.  And although like Lou Amundson he is an extraordinarily limited offensive basketball player, I  believe that unlike Lou Amundson he can actually contribute to a winning team.

When used in the right way.

Incredibly to me, Jackson was actually given credit by the Warriors media for starting Dom at shooting guard against Atlanta.  I guess that’s because the Warriors managed to win that game.  Here’s the cold hard truth:  the Warriors starting lineup was -12 for the game against Atlanta, and damn near gave the game away in the third quarter.

And in this game against the Sixers, the Warriors starting lineup was -13 for the game, and did give the game away in the third quarter.  Is Marcus Thompson going to continue to give credit to Jackson for this brilliant adjustment after this blowout?  And if so, for how long?

I wrote in my last post that the Warriors simply cannot play Dom at the same time as Biedrins, going 3 on 5 at the offensive end, and hope to win. Cannot. It is completely idiotic.

And it was even worse in this game, because there was absolutely no reason for Biedrins to play a minute against a team that NEVER PLAYED A CENTER.  The Sixers played nothing but power forwards across their front line in this game.

I want to point something out, in case you weren’t already aware of this fact.  Dom McGuire, at 6-9″ 235 lbs., is bigger than the Sixers starting center in this game, Lavoy Allen (6-9″, 225, 10 points and 7 rbs in 20 min). And Dom McGuire is bigger than the infamous Warriors Killer, Thaddeus Young (6-8″ 220, 16 points and 7 rbs in 27 min).

That is where Dom McGuire was needed by the Warriors in this game. Playing center or power forward against players that were smaller than him.  Playing close to the basket so that he could use the phenomenal rebounding ability that netted him 15 in the last game.  And his fabulous shot-blocking and lane-protecting ability.

Not chasing Andre Iguodala around the perimeter.

To be competitive in this game, the Warriors needed to matchup against the Sixers small-ball fours. With the biggest, toughest, most athletic small-ball four on the floor.

And they needed to get out and run.

The Warriors running game:  It’s gone, as I’m sure you’ve noticed if you’ve been paying attention.  6 fastbreak points in this game, that included a full quarter of garbage time.

I’m going to repeat a few stats here regarding the Warriors fast-break that I quoted in the last thread:

Warriors Fast-Break Points per Game:

  • We Believe: 20.6
  • 2007-8 (48-34, just missing the playoffs): 22.8
  • 2008-9, with no Monta Ellis (moped gate) or Curry: 18.4
  • Nellie’s last season, with an 8 man roster: 23.7
  • Last season under Smart: 18.8
  • This season under Jackson: 12.6
  • The Warriors’ last 4 games: 9

Get the message?  It’s for real folks.  The fastest team end to end in the entire league is walking the ball up the court.

Number of times the Warriors have broken 85 points in the last three games:  ZERO.  Get the message?  The Warriors are going to beat teams with their defense, or die trying.

It’s going to be death.

Allow me to make a few simple points in closing this topic:

Dom McGuire was 0-1 last game, 0-0 this game.  Tell me, how can you turn this wretched offensive player into an offensive weapon?  How can you make Dom McGuire a scorer?  By running.  Dom can beat every single power forward in the NBA down the court. Every single one. And he is a devastating open court finisher.

Name me an NBA center that David Lee can’t beat down court.  In this game, could Lee beat Elton Brand downcourt?  Yes, he could beat him upcourt too.  He could have run him right off the court.

How do you get a team that is mired in a horrible shooting slump out of their doldrums?  By getting them easy layups perhaps? By getting  them wide-open early-offense threes?  This Warriors team, walking the ball up the court, and playing 4 on 5 at best and frequently 3 on 5, is struggling to create open looks. And behaving like a team that has lost confidence in its offense.

Do you ever remember a Don Nelson team struggling to hit shots like this? How about his teams of D-Leaguers?

There’s a reason, and it begins with the coach.

David Lee:  Another 24 and 15, with three assists, on the road.  Playing in the wrong system. (Ho hum. Overpaid. Soft.)

If the Warriors had started Lee at center alongside Dom McGuire, the Warriors could have run pick and roll against Elton Brand all night long, in addition to beating him up and down the court.

Do you think that might have worked, with the best pick and roll center in basketball combining with Monta Ellis?

Monta Ellis:  There are not a lot of players in this league who could create the offense he created in this game playing 3 on 5.

Where’s it going to come from, when he’s traded?

Klay Thompson:  If I were a member of the Warriors media, I would like to pose this simple question to Mark Jackson:

If it’s true, as Jerry West said, that Klay Thompson is the best defender in the Warriors’ backcourt, then why was he hidden against SF Evan Turner in this game?

Goose Eggs:  If I were a member of the Warriors media, I would like to pose these two simple questions to Joe Lacob (in fact, I can’t for the life of me think why they are not being asked, every single day):

When did you first learn that Andris Biedrins has a chronic abdominal injury, and will never again be able to play basketball?

If it’s true — as you have repeatedly said — that you have deep pockets and are willing to spend money to win, then why didn’t you amnesty Biedrins and get your team a real player in his place?

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

40 Responses to The Mark Jackson Disaster: 76ers 105 Warriors 83

  1. early in the third quarter, T.Roye, hardly one to coach from the play by play chair, came right out and said they’re going to get killed if they stick to playing half court offense.

  2. All good points Feltie.

    Monta looked frustrated or just plain selfish at the end of the first
    half when he did not pass on either two for one situation.Phillie netted
    the two for one with a +plus two advantage.

    Also at the end of the third quarter, Ellis had three possessions
    in a row, where he took the ball upcourt and jacked up a shot (including the first possesion
    where he did
    a 720 degree or two piroettes ending in just throwing the ball
    blindly at the basket). The next two or three possesions bled into
    the fourth quarter where other Warriors threw the ball up without
    one pass on offense. David Lee did not touch the ball during this
    entire period of one on one junk basketball. When he finally
    did you knew he was’nt going to pass and he in turn threw up
    an off balance missed shot. Me thinks when this happens or during
    this period you call timeout and regroup possibly subbing out a
    couple of offenders. You at least stop play and say “we are going
    to do this #@@%# !!!”. Isnt that what Malone is for? Really.

    Instead, Jackson stands at half court, like this is an improvement
    over Keith Smart, or Don Nelson…

    And this culminated after seeing the “arch angel” of scoring, that
    none other than owner Joe Lacob involved in celebrating the
    “Wilt 100″ game, when he is determined that the Dubs team never score a
    100 in a game again.

    I thought it poetic justice, the Phillie Fans got their chalupas, or
    burgers etc, because they finally scored a 100. No, I dont think
    Lacob got the message.

    I cannot believe this team will over achieve the remainder of the
    year as two out of three games have just been Charles Barkley “turrible”.

    Between Monta’s fits and DWright’s lack luster performance.
    Biedrin’s lack of ability, and KThompsons overrated play, it will
    be tough to watch. 28 games looks like the lid this year.

    Did you notice the Warriors only had 9 turnovers. Evidently
    they took care of the ball and lost by 22 points, guess that stat
    might be overrated. Maybe you should run coach and get up to 12 turnovers?

    I wonder if the Preacher noted this in post conference? We got our 83 points and
    9 turnovers. Turns out Phillie ran at every opportunity and they
    scored…105. Doug Collins should send Coach Jackson a limo next year
    when the Dubs visit. Make sure he and Malone show up for what could
    be their final visit…

    No wonder the Warriors are not considered a good team,
    regardless of their talent.

  3. In baseball you score by swinging a bat, in basketball by shooting a ball. When neither is “working” (see 2011 Giants and post AS break Warriors) the entertainment value for fans plummets at the speed of light, and any vulturous media types looking to baste the hide of any team players and/or coaches/management will quickly flock to the kill zone to have their “fun”. Felt, fancy seeing you here. :)

    Anytime anyone wants company in throwing Biedrins under the bus (or anything else that’s vehicular, heavy, and moving very quickly) just call me, I’m in the phone book. Simply, Biedrins should never again play basketball. Now, what else is on your mind?

    Back to the Dubs current woes, they’ve started this road trip shooting like they’ve been blindfolded before taking their shots. And when the Warriors are shooting like this it exacerbates all their other deficiencies ten fold. I say throw these losses out (from an analytical standpoint) and see what happens after games in Toronto and Washington.

    I voted in GSOM’s poll the other day that I thought the Warriors would go 3-2 on this trip, and I still think they will. And if they do (and score 100+ in these next 2 games) then the clouds suddenly go from looking tornadic to only dark and foreboding.

    Remember, through the first 30 games only 5 teams were outscoring the Warriors on average, so do you choose to analyze the offense on 3 games or 30? If this is the start of a trend then I’ll see you around….GO HEAT!

    Seriously, I think the shooting will return (and Curry hopefully as well) and GSW will resume their path towards a more entertaining irrelevance. That is, until the trade.

  4. Thanks Feltbot!
    I like how the 76ers have absolutely no dropoff whatsoever when their bench enters the game. Many of the Sixers play decent both offense and defense.

    Nice games by David Lee and Monta Ellis – but their efforts and numbers were easily matched by the 76ers bodies in Lavoy/Brand/Young and Lou Williams. No other Warrior player stepped up their games.

    I’m going to stop calling Lou Williams a poor man’s Monta Ellis! Never again! Pound for pound and dollar for dollar (Lou makes less than 1/2 of Monta’s salary), Lou Williams is a very productive little scorer off the bench.

    Please allow Ekpe Udoh to play a minimum of 30+ minutes per game…

  5. The defensive book on the Warriors:

    1. Stop the 3-pt spot-up shot. Neither Wright nor Rush drives often or well, so if they’re posted in the corner, disrupting their shot effectively eliminates them from the entire offense. They won’t rebound much from the 3 point line either. Allow them (encourage them!) to receive the ball on the wing, then defend against the shot only. It’s easy to do when you don’t have to worry about their drive. Last night Wright and Rush combined for 5-16 overall (31%), 3/11 on 3s (27%), and a total of 7 RBs in 57 minutes of game time. Game over.

    2. Pound David Lee. Result: It worked last night. Lee did score, but at a very low percentage for his position (42%) AND it took him 41 minutes to get his numbers. He got only 4 offensive rebounds. (41 minutes!?!? WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!)

    3. Double-team Monta. 10-22 (45%), 7 assists, 3 RBs, 3 steals. Unstoppable. Someone said he’s selfish? Wrong. Despite being double-teamed, Monta had the best shooting percentage AND the most assists and steals on the team. And too little help from his teammates.

    4. Guard the hoop, not the bad-shooting bigs. Result: Udoh got 6 points, 1 offensive rebound. He shot only jumpers, often without a single defender near. Biedrins/McGuire combine for 0 points and 1 offensive rebound.

    This has been THE defensive scheme against the Warriors in the last 3 games, resulting in Warriors scores of 78, 85 and 83. They did win one, but c’mon. Those are not winning scores.

    In Udoh’s defense, the coach only played him for 19 minutes. A factual basis for that coaching decision was not evident. It’s not like he could have done worse than Biedrins. Perhaps there was a mystical reason.

    ESPN miked Jackson on the sidelines. Fascinating. Midway through the 3rd Q, as Philly has cranked up their campaign of defensive terror against his team, he’s exhorting his players to try harder – and giving them nothing they can use to win. Loser.

    If Jackson had a bean in his head, he would have changed up the offense. Give up on the 3pt postups, post Lee at the top of the key as a distributor, put Wright in motion (he’s a good slashing finisher), and replace Rush with Thompson to keep the 3pt threat alive (unlike Rush, Thompson can create his own shots). Defense might suffer slightly (or not), but it would have been a far more effective O.

    Do something, MJ. Anything. NBA athletes are the world’s elite professionals in a ruthlessly results-driven business. Your team needs a professional coach, not an obnoxious cheerleader.

  6. Excellent recap felt…I share your anguish with the ‘demise’ of the Warrior running game. Only thing I can add to your take is aren’t they accentuating there weakness in playing walk it up, half court offense, without the kind of player that is vital to that style of play…a low post beaast then can dominate the paint?

    RE your question

    “When did you first learn that Andris Biedrins has a chronic abdominal injury, and will never again be able to play basketball?”

    If they in fact knew how could or why would they bet the ranch on resurrecting his game & value? By all logic if he was that injured that would never have been possible…right?

    • ~their~

    • I think keeping Biedrins on the roster is a business decision, not a bball one.

      If Beans’ problem were officially a career-ending injury, the CBA says his full salary would become immediately due and payable. By denying that the problem is an injury, Lacob can defer the write-off for the duration of Beans’ contract. There’s some real value in that.

      By playing Biedrins and talking up his value, hey, who knows, maybe Lacob could even reduce the payout. If some other team would accept Beans in trade, the Warriors wouldn’t have to pay down 100% of his salary, only maybe as little as 80% of it. Even that would be better for the bottom line than taking the full hit. This is a pretty low-percentage possibility. Teams do perform physicals on incoming players. But stranger things have happened.

  7. Scotch, I don’t believe that Lacob was “betting the ranch” on Biedrins. I believe he was simply too cheap to buy out a player he knew was finished. Amnestying Biedrins would have required Lacob to not only pay Biedrins his full salary for three seasons, but also to pay other new players the equivalent of his salary to get the Warriors back up to the cap. In other words, amnestying a player is costly and painful. Unless your object is winning.

    This was a financial, not a basketball decision, and one that is completely at odds with the public perception that Lacob is trying to create for himself.

    I am perplexed that the Warriors media are collaborating with Lacob on this fiction.

    • I agree felt & have been hammered elsewhere for making that exact point..I even feel part of the Bell move was to make the amnesty chip go away with the least aount of co$t, while trying to make it seem like a valiant effort to sign a FA. Me thinks Lacob would’ve had a hard time after milking his cash-cows of $450mil to right away ask for another $27mil on a amnesty give away.

      Bottom line for me is the $27mil was/is “Sunk Cost” (sorry to bring up a bad memory)…whether AB is on the roster or not that money is gone! His production of whether he was on the roster or not is essentially the same & the argument can now be made that it’s more harmful having him on the team while Jackson (via management) continues to play him mucking everything up.

  8. felt don’t be to perplexed about the media.

    Short story about a favorite of yours…A buddy awhile back emailed Kawakami asking him why he had disappeared from ‘Chronicle Live’, TK replyed “because of his critical comments about the Warriors”…

    • I’m not buying TK’s excuse. Other sportwriters on the show have been critical of local teams. Comcast was probably not fond of his Captain-Queeg-like demeanor and rambling opinions. Another sportwriter who lives to criticize others, but can’t take what he dishes out.

  9. @9: Amnestying Biedrins, however, would have given the team much more flexibility this year and the next two years rebuilding the team, going after that big player he covets, or, more to my liking, building a bench like Philadelphia’s. Winning translates into the prestige he covets, too, as well as bucks? But also, assuming Lacob is going to be as aggressive as he says, he could have saved substantial salary cap taxes down the line.

    If he were gambling he could trade Biedrins in some kind of package this year or the next, it’s a risky, expensive gamble with low pot odds.

    Either he decided he might be able to be competitive this year with his two big ‘n talls, or he didn’t think the team could be competitive and was again stalling for time, for his mythical trade. Neither possibility makes much sense.

    • I enjoy the disection of Lacob’s Brain in doing the post mortem on the amnesty and attempt to cover up the AB debacle.

      Maybe that is why they are playing AB. With the unlikely probability he would play well enough to entice a Houston, Phoenix etc, to part ways with one of their players for a Center. I know it would be a desperate ploy indeed, but I think we can agree these guys are not rocket scientists…

      We are certain the public story is nonsense. 99% of fans eat it up, but not on Feltbot! Kudos.

  10. Felty: The guy who should be starting each and every game is Udoh. Last night with Udoh on the court for 19 minutes, Philly shot 34% from the field (11-29). They shot 60% with Biedrins on the court, including two scores off of offensive rebounds.

    In the beginning of the game, with Biedrins, D.Lee and McGuire playing Philly shot 7-13, until Udoh replaced Biedrins. The only reason that Philly did not get off to a big lead is because Ellis was hot in the first quarter. Philly scored only once off of offensive rebounds when Udoh was on the court, and he was not responsible for such score as he made his opponent miss the shot, and I believe, D. Lee did not block his man off the boards.

    To allow Biedrins to start the third quarter amply demonstrates that Jackson does not have a clue. What a surprise that Philly started on a 14-4 run.

    I really hope that you come around to Udoh starting.

    It’s apparent that Ellis called all the plays on offense. Most of the plays he called were for himself or D.Lee. He made no attempt ot integrate Udoh and Rush into the offense.

    If McGuire is to start he should replace D. Wright. I have no problem with a frontcourt of D.Lee, Udoh, and McGuire. Rush or Thompson should have been playing the SG position last night and in future games until Curry returns.

    Did you notice how the Warriors did not try to interfere with Philly running their set offense. No getting in the face of perimeter players and denying them easy entry passes into the post. No traps. No pressure put of the perimeter. Warriors seem to be running around as if their head cut off. Sad.

    I’m am upset as you are that the Jackson-Malone tandum refuses to run. That’s not going to change.

    I’m starting to suspect that Ellis playing poorly for awhile and lately raising his level of play, may suggest that he wants to be traded.

    One can almost predict that if Ellis is traded he won’t be traded for an impact player. The Warriors even entertaining trading him for Beasley and Perovic is mind-boggling. Ellis should stay, Jackson should go.

    In my last post, I praised the Warriors for shooting among the best in the NBA. I heard Fitz right say last night, that our opponents have more steals against the Warriors then any team in the league. If true, such tarnishes their excellent shooting from the field.

    • The handling of Biedrins is just bizarre. Any other player would have been moved to the bench to see if it motivated him to pick up his play. I doubt that would work with him, however.

      • Bring back Andris’ buddy, Marco Belinelli – and run, run, run. Drive and dish to Andris for a dunk every quarter… Maybe he’d have more fun…

        I’d hate to see us waive Andris – then he goes to Denver and regains his old form on a running team.

        • “I’d hate to see us waive Andris – then he goes to Denver and regains his old form on a running team.”

          PeteyB, I’m worried. You’re looking pale and emaciated. I think you’ve been watching too much GSW basketball. Please, stop, before it’s too late! :)

          • Haha! You are right! I am watching too much W’s basketball!

            I remember an Andris Biedrins interview where he complained that his teammates were selfish – they don’t pass and play team ball. Maybe it was the interview in Latvia or whatever Euro country around when Smart was hired as head coach. Andris denied the charges and blamed the language translation issue for the misunderstanding. Maybe there’s something there.

            Within a year and a half, Andris had a 28 point, 21 rebound game against Gasol’s/Randolph’s Memphis Grizzlies.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24GHLFwFnU0

            A year and a half. So Andris’ collapse is not a physical issue – it’s an issue of inspiration, having fun, confidence, system, environment – coaching.

  11. rgg: You are so right. Playing Biedrins has proven to all of us, over and over again, that he is worthless. It would lead one to suspect that either Jackson is really doesn’t get it, or he is betting on the Warriors to lose. We know he’s not doing the later.

  12. Don’t look now, Warriors fans, but the TWolves are one of the best teams in the NBA. Period. Right now.

    I watched them utterly destroy the Blazers in the Rose Garden tonight. Love fouled out Aldridge, and the rookie Derrick Williams almost did the same to Gerald Wallace. He is going to be an absolute stud, as will become clear once the Wolves trade Beasley (fantasy alert!).

    Of interest to Warriors fans: Kahn found a really good Two-Way European center in Pekovic. But the Wolves best lineup, and the one Rick Adelman goes to in the fourth quarter, is Kevin Love at center, and Derrick Williams (Beasley, Tolliver) at the spread four.

    And oh yes, that two point guard backcourt of Rubio and Ridenour (and Barea). Protected by Martell Webster.

    David Kahn wound up doing a fantastic job, topped off by reversing his worst mistake — Kurt Rambis — with the superb Rick Adelman.

    A major post comparing Kahn to the Warriors GM, Joe Lacob, is forthcoming.

    • Wow! What enthusiasm! The Timberwolves are an up and coming team. One of the best? Time will tell. Rambis helped them tank to be able to accumulate top lottery picks for years to draft the likes of D. Williams, Love, Flynn, Wesley, and Rubio. David Kahn is lucky he still has a job after drafting Flynn and Wesley. Super hire in Adelman. But the sad fact is – beating Portland – at home ain’t what it used to be…

    • FB: If you ever get a chance to see a Knicks game I’d be curious to hear your analysis. The answer can’t be Jeremy Lin, though Lin has obviously helped free up something they didn’t have before.

      • I’ve watched several Knicks games, and have opinions about what’s happening. I’ll drop them on Lacob’s head, soon. When the obit is written on this season.

        • The point, of course, is what the Warriors might have done with a capable veteran coach. Hard to believe they couldn’t have lured Adelman, whose record in Houston was quite respectable.

  13. If the Warriors could ever get their act together here’s one team they could pass in the West.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf/2012/03/canzano_for_some_trail_blazers.html

  14. Rusty Simmons: Considering the Warriors’ trade possibilities. (If I talk to Toronto I’m going after Ed Davis, and I wouldn’t touch JaVale McGee with a ten ft pole. The term “stiff” is too kind a description.)

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/03/03/SP091NFR84.DTL&feed=rss.warriors

      • Thanks Steve. Interesting read, but one thing that’s glossed over in every media discussion of possible Warriors trades (including the article you linked) is that the Warriors could likely trade Biedrins tomorrow if they agreed to continue to pay a percentage of his contract. As Felt has pointed out, he does have some value as a big lane filler with fouls to give. Not $9M/year value, but something. To a playoff-bound team looking for insurance, for example.

        Replacing Biedrins immediately with someone who would contribute more to the Warriors might be costly, but it is not impossible. It would not even be difficult. Teams who are genuinely serious about competing do it all the time. Teams who aren’t, don’t. They talk bull instead.

  15. OK, you guys getting tired of stats, avert your eyes. A brief note this time:

    Percentage of Warriors points from 3 pointers for the season: 24.1% (4th in the league).

    Percentage of Warriors point from 3 pointers in last 3 games: 11%

    Just bad shooting luck, or has the league figured out the Warriors offense?

    • Wasn’t it Nelson’s rule, that if you missed two outside shots, you drove and tried to get to the free throw line? The idea is to do something to get on track, and Rick Barry said something similar, that when he wasn’t hitting he’d try to get back in a groove by knocking down free throws. I don’t see any versatility or variety in this offense.

      • OK, fair enough. Having one player go through a bad shooting streak happens all the time. Rick Barry’s approach is one way out of it.

        My point is that when two different players in the exact same role stop delivering, it’s probably the role. They’re onto us.

        The corner 3 from DWright and Rush has become a big component of the Warriors offense. Naturally, it has now become a focus of opposing defenses. Since neither player drives all that well from the corner (and it is the hardest spot on the floor to start a drive), it’s fairly easy for a defense to shut them down at the 3-point line. Just stay tight and disrupt the shot. Our guys will a) pass the ball back out, b) force the shot, or c) drive poorly. That’s exactly what’s been happening for 3 games now.

        With Curry out, the pass back out from the corner usually goes to Monta. And he’s usually double-teamed. And when the ball comes back to him, he’s got a short shot clock. Ouch.

        You’re right, rgg, the team needs to make some changes in the offense. Real coaches adjust offenses all the time, sometimes several times a game. Our coach? He’s a “flow” guy. Maybe that means he sees what’s happening, but not why. Maybe Wright and Rush should just try harder, whatever that might mean in this context.

  16. Toronto:

    It’s deja vu all over again.

  17. Yupp.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>