Out of Rhythm: Jazz 115 Warriors 101

To echo a refrain of my last post, the biggest difference between the Utah Jazz and the newly Bogutted Golden State Warriors, is that the Jazz know who they are as a basketball team.

Or as Mark Jackson put it post-game: “We’ve got to find ourselves.”


The Andrew Bogut Myth:

“He just didn’t have his quickness.” — Jim Barnett at 6:20 1Q, watching Al Jefferson go right through Bogut for a layup.

“He wasn’t moving well.” — Mark Jackson

“Bogut has problems with lateral mobility.” — Gary St. Jean

“Bogut wasn’t in position to rebound nor defend.” — Gary St. Jean

“Bogut was lumbering.” — Greg Papa.

“I see a guy who’s not completely healthy.” — Greg Papa

“Some nights he’s going to be stiff.” — Gary St. Jean

Do I really need to add my own observations now that the Warriors PR machine has given up on trying to hide the obvious?

I’ll try to make this concise, as I’ve already had a lot to say on this subject. Andris Biedrins, when he was healthy, regularly destroyed Al Jefferson with his length, quickness and smarts. Festus Ezeli, a raw rookie, has given Jefferson trouble in previous games, with his strength, quickness and smarts.

Al Jefferson made Andrew Bogut his bitch.

And not just Jefferson, but the entire Jazz team, who took it right at Bogut from the opening tip. Even the 6-7″ Paul Millsap knocked Bogut on his ass under the basket, and calmly fielded the offensive rebound and layed it up.

Bogut was brought in at 7:00 2Q, and then yanked after three minutes. My take? He was completely gassed.

At 8:25 3Q, Al Jefferson lured Bogut up to the free throw line, then simply went around him for the dunk. He was yanked at the next stoppage, and left on the bench for the rest of the game.

Was it simply because he “wasn’t moving well,” or is this a sign that Mark Jackson is going to employ The Feltbot Solution, and regularly bench Bogut in the fourth quarter going forward?

It’s also worth mentioning that just as Bogut has brought the entire Warriors defense down with him, so has he done with the Warriors offense.

It is, in fact, no longer recognizable as the Warriors offense when he’s in the game. Gone is the uptempo, the quick threes, the pick and roll. In its place is Exhibit A, the first quarter of this game, in which the starting lineup managed 9 points. The Warriors transformed into a miserable half court team, saddled with a center too slow to run, too immobile for pick and roll, down to one useful arm (his off-arm) in the low post, and unable to shoot in the high post.

Did you notice what happened in the second quarter? With the Warriors on the verge of getting blown out, Mark Jackson very quickly went to his fourth quarter unit of old: Lee, Landry, Thompson, Curry and Jack. And the Warriors just as quickly got right back into the game.

Which unit is the real Warriors team?

The Myth of the Warriors Defense: 

As I predicted, the Warriors three point “defense” has fallen precipitiously. As it must, when your strategy is to pack the lane, and leave the three point shooters completely unguarded. Utah was 10-21 in this game, for 48%.

A couple of games back, Mark Jackson attempted to deny that this has been the Warriors strategy. I think that’s laughable, when game after game we see the same thing. Utah’s three point shooters were virtually never guarded in this game, and their team did a great job of finding them.

I refer you to this humorous exchange at 9:16 2Q:

Roye: “Burks unguarded.”

[Burks buries the three.]

Barnett: “All five Warriors in the lane.”

Is the recent success of the Warriors’ opponents in burying the Warriors under an avalanche of threes simply a case of reversion to the mean? A reversal of the extraordinary luck on three point shots the Warriors experienced in the first half of the season? Or is there something more at work here as well?

Perhaps the league has now scouted the Warriors’ new defense, and in particular their zone, and is starting to actively game-plan against it. I cannot recall the Jazz of the last few years ever moving the ball this well, or finding their perimeter shooters like they did in this game.

A couple of other points:

1) Whenever the Warriors broadcasters refer to the Warriors defense as being “a step slow,” please recognize that this is a euphemism for the effect of Bogut on the team.

2) I heard it suggested by commentators that one of the reasons why the Warriors defense is falling apart is that they’re turning the ball over more, and giving up more fast breaks as a result. My take: They are turning the ball over more because they are walking the ball up the court, shooting fewer early threes, and struggling with an unworkable half-court offense. The same reason why the Warriors turned the ball over far more under Keith Smart than they did with D-Leaguers and a rookie point guard under Don Nelson.

Yes, Andrew Bogut is the reason they are turning the ball over more.

Stephen Curry and Jarrett Jack: Incredible performances from both Curry and Jack, particularly given the fact that almost nothing came easy. How many of their shots do you remember to be wide open? They had to work for literally everything in this game off the dribble.

David Lee: Have you noticed how many times the broadcasters have told us that David Lee is tired lately? I’m getting a little worried about that. Even in this game, I thought he lacked a little of his characteristic speed, force and energy. And we heard the “tired” word mentioned again.

Do you remember Lee’s abdominal injury last year, that led to surgery? It was caused by overwork, after Joe Lacob stripped the Warriors bench of playable big men for the second straight year at the trading deadline.

Well, Lee has again been overworked to start this year. Because of Lacob’s decision not to reinforce the Warriors frontline, despite knowing as of last April that Bogut had microfracture surgery on his ankle, and would be unlikely to start the season.

And I noticed something back in the Memphis game. During a defensive possession where Lee was banging with Marc Gasol in the lane. A wince, and a glance down.

I sure hope I’m wrong about this.

The Biedrins-Ezeli conundrum: I happen to believe that the Warriors could have won this game by playing Ezeli in Bogut’s place. But maybe that’s just me.

But surely everyone is perplexed that Biedrins is playing ahead of Ezeli lately?

I’m hoping that the reason for this is the obvious one: that Biedrins is being showcased, and that the natural order will be restored after the trading deadline.

It does make me laugh, though, the thought that any NBA GM in his right mind could possibly be so stupid as to take the permanently crippled Biedrins with another full year left on his contract.

The Brand: Once again, zero rebounds for 19 minutes. Klay Thompson, his inferior in size, quickness and vertical leap, managed 7.

And once again, completely invisible on defense.

What is Harrison Barnes going to hang his hat on in the NBA?

Mark Jackson: Coach Jackson said some extremely interesting things in his post-game interview. Particularly this:

Guys are going to have to play for their minutes…. [We’re] going to find five guys on the floor who are going to scratch, claw and compete.

As Marcus Thompson is fond of saying, Shots Fired. I think it’s pretty obvious, after watching him get benched repeatedly in this game, that Andrew Bogut is directly in the crosshairs of these remarks.

But I have a sneaking suspicion that Jackson had Harrison Barnes in mind as well.

The Theology of Basketball: Has anyone else noticed that God has been remarkably silent on the Warriors as of late? Is he no longer “using this team to show folks he can do the same thing in their lives?” Has he taken his hands off of this Warriors team, and put them on some other team?

I have only recently taken up the subject of the theology of basketball, at the instigation of Pastor Jackson, and I know I have a lot to learn, but I have to admit these questions have been plaguing me. They’ve left me confused and perplexed.

And I’m beginning to suffer from doubt.

But hey, tomorrow we’re at home against the Phoenix Suns — an utterly terrible team, on a road back to back.

Surely God will have something to say about that?

133 Responses to Out of Rhythm: Jazz 115 Warriors 101

  1. Warriors should’ve dumped Jeremy Tylers lame ass and picked up the guy he played next to in Santa Cruz, Chris Johnson. I believe Minnesota picked him up. This is getting ridiculous and “at the end of the day” we are sucking and the rope isn’t as tight as it once was

  2. Great post and reflects that virtually everything you have written the few weeks was right-on.

    It should now be apparent that Bogut will continue be weight on the Warriors dragging them down in the standings. It’s te for the warriors to
    trade both Barnes and Thompson, and one of our bloated contracts for two bigs, one who can score. Going after Gordon is the wrong way to. Bringing up Travis Leslie who is tearing it up in the D-league is a better way to go .

  3. Hopefully M Jackson is beginning to understand that his team is better with Ezeli on the floor both on the defensive and offensive end. Ezeli clearly has had trouble catching the ball, but he has rebounded and played defense better than any of the Warriors bigs.

    It’s also clear that Curry, Thompson, Jack and Lee need to be taking the shots — therefore, running the offense through a center (Bogut) only hurts their offensive games.

    Regarding the defense…Barnett, St. Jean and Felty are all right. Athletically, Bogut is only hurting the Warriors. Not only is it the three point shooting, but the need to pack the lane even more to help out when Boguts man, or anyone else drives the lane.

    LACOB CANNOT WASTE THIS SEASON HOPING BOGUT RETURNS TO FORM. The talent is too good on this roster to miss the playoffs because he’s forcing his coach to play a gimpy center.

  4. Not Howard. Rather Jefferson and R.Anderson or Udoh.

    • Jefferson and Anderson are both offense-first, defense second bigs. Anderson would fit in as a nice spread-4 with this team, but defensively, the team would get even worse.

      Udoh coming back would be great. He’s a defensive specialist, who is not a great rebounder. Lacob wants rebounders. I doubt it’s going to happen.

  5. thanks again, feltmeister. your suspicions re. lee are similar to mine — he’s moving like his dinged up, focus and timing not crystal clear. competition is so close that very small impairments or microsecond hesitations alter results.

  6. The good news, assuming Jackson is under pressure from the FO to play Bogut, is that it won’t be hard to bench him after performances like the one last night.

    Not exactly a silver lining.

    We’ve been had.

    I’m looking at the game log last season for the Bucks before his ankle break. Bogut only played 12 games, missing 5 others I assume for other injuries. During those, he had a handful of good games. The team was 7-5, largely against mediocre opponents. They did beat the Spurs—but SJax had 34 points! And they beat Wadeless Miami—but the Bucks went on to beat them solidly a week later, full squad, without Bogut. Also the Knicks—but Jennings went on a tear, 36 points. Many dismal losses.


    So when the Warriors FO so very carefully studied tapes before the trade, they must have been looking at two seasons and two years ago and making projections from there? (Or was it wishful thinking?)

    D’Antoni, curiously, expressed interest in Raja Bell again, just the other day. If Bell has any fight and stamina left (unlikely at 36), he’d come cheap and make an interesting rental for the Warriors. He could fill in at 2, allowing Klay to move to 3, as well as help the second unit.

  7. Felt, once again a clear-eyed assessment. Bogut shouldn’t be playing. Whether or not he can recover any of his mobility in the future, he’s not a capable player right now.

    Since Bogut is not helping now anyway, why hurt his chances for recovery by playing him injured? From the bleacher seats, choosing to lose with Bogut or win without him isn’t a hard decision. Lacob can only look brilliant if the team is winning. Forcing a clearly sub-par player onto the floor has no upside, for anyone or anything – even Lacob’s ego.

    Barnes may look like an advertising model to team management, but Jefferson is a better “traditional” SF and Green a better all-round (though admitted unconventional) player. If Barnes could avoid standing around like a lost fan he could probably do well. But again last night, all too often we saw him spectate instead of participate. When commits to playing his heart out, I say give him a chance. Until then, play winners instead.

    Something IS wrong with Lee’s play, though it may simply be that no opponent has to worry about Bogut, and they’re free to focus on stopping Mr. 20-and-10. Heck, I’m no basketball genius and that’s how I’d play it. As an offensive threat, Bogut ranks near zero right now. Why bother defending him? Stop the scorer.

    Re the god talk, can we please table that? Jackson has stopped doing it, thank god. He’s apparently learned his lesson, so let’s leave it there, OK? Start a theology blog if you want to sneer at Jackson’s beliefs. I’ll even co-author the damn thing. I gotta million of ’em!

    But not for this blog. Let’s stick to basketball here. Just my humble opinion.

    • One thing I am NOT doing is sneering at Jackson’s religious beliefs.

      I am satirizing his belief that his team, and all Warriors employees and fans, should share his religious beliefs, and accept him ministering to them.

      And I am questioning whether it is appropriate for a Warriors head coach, or any middle manager, to use his position of authority to proselytize in the workplace. I hope you can understand the difference.

      I understand your wish that this blog restrict itself to basketball. Trust me, that is my dearest wish as well. But as a Warriors blogger, I feel I have a duty to discuss what Mark Jackson says and believes about his team. That duty has been abdicated by the Warriors media, but won’t be by me.

      As I pointed out, Jackson’s statements indicating that the Warriors are the Christian God’s favorite team have abated with the losing streak. If he discontinues this talk for good, then I would be more than happy to follow suit.

      • I think you can rest easy on the topic of Jackson’s god talk. He quit it well before the recent losing streak.

        As for “understanding the difference” myself, I have mentioned before on this blog that proselytizing in my office is a 3-strikes-at-most offense. At the very least, it is disrespectful of others. At worst, in a supervisor it can easily be seen as abuse of authority. I have fired people over the issue, even when I agreed with them. I do understand your POV, Feltie.

        Now back to basketball.

      • +1
        I am betting that God returns after a short win streak……

      • Father McHorter

        Feltbot my boy,

        I am surprised you are not aware that Jesus has a well known liberal bias, but his agents (especially the financial ones) are hard core conservatives.

        Shame on you!

  8. Ryan Anderson actually has better defensive stats playing center that anyone playing center for the Warriors which shows how bad the Warriors centers are. His 56% effective FG% would really help us. He would fit well in a small line-up.

    Given that Jefferson is bad defensively, upon further consideration, I would be quite happy if the Warriors traded for both Anderson and Udoh. And if Thompson is included in any three-way deal than maybe the Warriors can salvage a 2013 first round draft pick which they surely need.

    The Warriors weren’t very successful trading at the deadline last year. We’ll see if they do better this year.

    If all they are discussing is obtaining E. Gordon, who is coming off of a severe leg injury, the Warriors haven’t learned from their past mistakes.

    We need R. Jefferson on the court. To date, his defense is much better than even Green and he’s far superior offensively.

    The Warriors problem is not garnering defensive rebounds. Yes, the Warriors have dropped from plus 2 to minus 2 since they started losing. But that is solely the result of team’s making more shots and shooting a higher FG% which results in less defensive rebounds.

    From reading posts, it appears that close to 95% of all posters supported the trade for the injured Bogut. Even now, many remain in denial that the trade was a bust.

    • FeltbotsFakeGirlfriend

      The trade was addition by subtraction you moron. Monta Ellis is overrated and garbage. He is a cancer to every team he is on. Funny that the Milwaukee Bucks are not dominating like Feltbot claimed they would. They might not even make the playoffs. Another epic fail for Feltbot.

  9. “We’ve been had”……..”Felt, once again a clear-eyed assessment. Bogut shouldn’t be playing. Whether or not he can recover any of his mobility in the future, he’s not a capable player right now.”

    The Andrew Bogut Myth takes another detour.

  10. FeltbotsFakeGirlfriend

    If I played Feltbot one on one he would be my BITCH. Feltbot the guy with no game thinks he knows everything about basketball. I got 10K that says I can kick feltbot’s ass on the hoop court.

  11. Phil Jackson interview:

    SI: How does the game look to you? Similar from team to team?

    Jackson: Yes. Basketball is a simple game. Your goal is penetration, get the ball close to the basket, and there are three ways to do that. Pass, dribble and offensive rebound.

    The easiest one is — or should be — the pass. But the new rules allow you to throw more people at post-up players. NBA basketball is a big man’s game, and in the past they protected that aspect of the game. Well, those rules went out the window and what they didn’t do was consider this: If they’re going to continue to allow zone defenses to work and shut down the paint, then they have to put six more seconds on the shot clock. A 30-second clock. But they’re so attached to the idea of the 24-second clock that it doesn’t happen.


    SI: A final obvious question: What do you miss about coaching?

    Jackson: What you might expect. Being around the other coaches, being around the guys. It’s what I talked about in my book [Eleven Rings]. Coaching is about, “How do I get these people to play at their peak level?” Yeah, the X’s and O’s mean something, but you can get people to do that. And a lot of those guys have been hired. The Lawrence Franks and the Frank Vogels. Mike Brown was one of those guys. That’s not a knock. Those guys know how to coach the game.

    But coaching is much more than that. It is a spiritual quest. And if it’s not that, you don’t have a challenge, you don’t have a mission. Forming a brotherhood and trying to move it forward, that’s the part that I miss.


  12. The Warriors allowing the Suns to shoot 47 percent from the floor is an indication the Warriors are still a mess with Barnes on the floor. The Warriors were out-scored when he was on the court.
    The Warriors really needed to have played Jefferson,

    And even though Bogut contributed with his four OR’s and 3 blocked shots the Warriors just marginally outscored the Suns. But if he can do that each night, I’ll take it,

    Once again, Biedrins out performed Ezeli.
    If possible,I would like to see the Warriors trade Barnes today and upgrade the front court,

  13. Harkless is coming on. In last two games: 15-29 shooting, 2-5 on threes, 3-6 at foul line, 8 offensive rebounds, 8 defensive rebounds, 2 steals, one block.

    Barnes- 2-12 shooting, 1-4 on threes, 1-2 from foul line, 1 offensive rebound, 2 defensive rebounds, 1 block, 1 steal.

    We drafted the wrong SF. Trade Barnes for him now.

  14. RE: Bogut
    You’ll “take” 11 rebs and 3 blocks from Bogut? Lol! Don’t be too surprised. Bogut – when healthy “averaged” those numbers PER GAME for an NBA season.

    Let’s not forget Bogut’s 2 steals, 5 assists, 0 turnovers, and 0 fouls.

    I’ll be patient for when he starts getting his legs under him! Lol!

    • Lets be honest with ourselves – our zone defense helps cover up for our poor defenders like Lee, Thompson, and Curry. Teams can hit wide open threes against our zone defense…

      I’d trade All-Star PF/C David Lee for free agent to be – Atlanta’s PF Josh Smith.

      Josh Smith would shore up our defense tremendously (turning a huge liability into a huge positive), help protect the rim (block shots), score around the paint, and can close out on perimeter shooters.

      If Smith walks away, well there’s all the cap space everyone’s been whining about! Lol!

      • I’d then trade for Sacramento’s SF Tyreke Evans. Play Tyreke at PG, but have him defend SGs. Sacramento will want to dump him anyways…

        I wouldn’t trade Klay or Harrison to get him though… Only Jack or Landry.

        Tyreke is a huge PG – gets to the line (huge!), takes it to the rim, rebounds, passes, scores. Also can make Klay and Curry play off the ball more.

        • Tyreke/Jenkins/Basemore, Curry/Rush, Klay/Harrison/Jefferson, Josh Smith/Landry/Green/Tyler, and Bogut/Ezeli/Biedrins

        • Tyreke Evans is an interesting player, PB, but:

          Career APG 4.9, this year 3.1
          Career 3-pt. shooting .265

          ESPN has Evans listed as a PG, but he starts next to Isaiah Thomas, a prototypical PG with more assists and better 3-pt shooting. And Evans shares playing time with Jimmer Fredette, a sort of shorter/slower Klay Thompson type.

          It’s hard to see how Evans would fit the Ws. Playing him probably would improve D, but the O would have to run quite a bit differently.

          • Tyreke is a HUGE ball hog. Not the player Curry or Thompson needs to be successful.

            Can you imagine if Curry was relegated to the Ray Allen roll of spot up shooter?!? He might hit 60 percent of his threes.

  15. Keep in mind that the Suns shot well when Bogut was on the court. Even with his blocks, too many easy baskets are scored inside. And that is what we need most from Bogut. But, I’m giving Bogut a pass because Barnes is a liability of defense. That’s why Jefferson should be playing in his stead.

    Bogut should consider giving up his right hand hook shot.

    Trading D. Lee for Smith would see the Warriors fall quickly in the standings. Thankfully, it’s not going to happen.

  16. Bogut was vastly outplayed by Jermaine O’Neal, 35, who’s been in the league 18 years and had one of his best games of the season. Bogut got burned by faster players in the lane and could not and would not put the ball up when he was under the basket, especially when they needed the scoring. Most of his points came from simple put-backs.

    His value last night has to be measured against what a quicker and more versatile player might have contributed. Only against a confused team like Phoenix does he get those assists. And someone other than Barnes on the court could have facilitated ball movement and made up the difference.

    Remember, this is supposed to be a transcendent player. We still haven’t seen it, or anything close.

    But I heard he was sick?

    • Gortat? Scola? O’Neal? Which one? I assure you – Bogut ain’t 100%, but watching the game, the guy Lee is defending sure does get the easier buckets…

      • Lee’s defense would improve if he had a faster, more active player alongside him—and he and Bogut don’t seem to be working well together yet. I’m not convinced that Bogut, even at his best, complements Lee that well.

        I’m fantasizing what a front court of Lee and Faried could do, offense and defense. The team would be a buzz saw.

  17. I recall in the past when Monta was playing for the Warriors – I could actually predict which SGs would have career shooting games…

    Now, this trend appears to be the GSWs – even horrible 3 pt shooting teams can hit open shots – against the W’s pack the lane zone!

    I’m hoping the W’s can acquire or sign some 2-way players… Watching Lee, Curry, Thompson, and Barnes play defense – is bad for my heart… Lol!

  18. Rgg: You are so right-on. The modern center is quick. Bogut is not.

    That is why the Warriors had outscored their opponents by eight. points over a 48 minutes period with Udoh and D. Lee on the court together. That’s a championship stat. Won’t see that with Bogut and D. Lee on the court together. Last night, D. Lee a positive 16 rating, Bogut only had a positive 5. He had the lowest positive rating of the starters. Barnes had a negative effect on team.

    Looks like no trades today for the Warriors.

    B. Simmons reporting that Warriors during the summer were offered Harden for Thompson and Warriors turned it down. I’m sick.

    • Link please?

      • Here’s the relevant quote. Link below.

        “…And the Warriors are slumping.

        Simmons: And then some. At what point is someone going to break the news to Warriors fans that they could have had James Harden for Klay Thompson before the season? Should we do it in stages? One at a time? How should we handle this? We might have to do an oral history called “The Last Few Days Before Oklahoma City Traded James Harden.” I still can’t believe that Washington and Golden State evaluated that situation by saying, “Hmmmmm … no thanks, we’re gonna roll with Bradley Beal/Klay Thompson over adding a franchise guy.” Sorry, I interrupted, go back to breaking down Houston’s playoff chances, please.”


        In light of the Ws dumping Jenkins and Tyler to shave their pittance salaries, NOT going after Harden would be completely in character for the dubs. But really, the “coulda had Harden” claim is probably just speculation on Simmons’ part. Besides, they would have to salary-match, right?

        Monta for Harden, that would have worked salary-wise, and it would have benefited both teams.

        • It is completely obvious that the Warriors could have traded for Harden instead of Bogut, which is why I brought it up months ago. Do you really think they couldn’t have beaten the package the Rockets sent, headlined by Kevin Martin?

          And if Bill Simmons is saying this, I think you can take it to the bank. He has reliable sources, in this case no doubt Daryl Morey himself, whom he is good friends with.

  19. The Bucks got Redick. Now poised to make a move as they can reduce Ellis’s playing time.

    • Going to help both Monta and Jennings, but will mainly take Udrih and Mbam’s minutes. Bucks badly needed a reliable shooter.

      • Only one ball – and Jennings and Ellis need the rock in their hands to be effective. Redick’s numbers will take a dump until Ellis opts out next year.

        Once again, the often shopped Monta Ellis was not easily tradeable. He should opt in – he’s making good money…

        And the Myth of Monta continues…

  20. FeltbotsFakeGirlfriend

    The Golden State Warriors have reportedly traded reserve guard Charles Jenkins to the Philadelphia 76ers and Jeremy Tyler to the Atlanta Hawks.

    While we all probably wish those two guys luck as they move forward, Marcus Thompson II described the key details of this deal:

    The salary dumps, which occurred just before the deadline, cut more than $1.5 million off the Warriors’ salary cap figure. The Warriors needed to trim $1.2 million to avoid paying the luxury tax penalty.

    Rusty Simmons of the S.F. Chronicle elaborated, describing the importance of avoiding becoming a “repeat offender”.

    On top of missing out on a cut of the tax revenue and having to pay a tax themselves, the Warriors would have increased their chances of being a future repeat offender. The Warriors were only $1.2 million over the league’s $70.307 million luxury threshold, so it didn’t seem worth starting the clock on the steep repeat-offender penalty.

    In return, the Warriors get a pair of second round picks, according to Ken Berger of CBS Sports.

  21. Now, the Warriors have an opportunity to bring up Travis Leslie from the D-league. I hope they do and that he gets some playing time. I have a sneaky suspicion he’s really good.

    If so, then both Jefferson and Thompson should play SF, and Barnes can be relegated to the bench where he belongs. Want to see Jefferson on the court with his holding opponents to 32% shooting at SF. He should be a big defensive help to both D. Lee and Bogut.

    Myers, take charge! Change the starting line-up, as Jackson does not have a clue.

    Philly got a good player in Jenkins. Hope he has success there.

    • Yes! Get Leslie up quick! He won the NBA D-League All-star game MVP with 19 points and 7 boards after being named to the team as a replacement two days before the game. He’s a baller.

      I disagree on your analysis of Jenkins. He’s an OK player with a nice mid-range jump shot. Not great handles, a little slow, and not able to get to the rim. Decent defensively.

  22. Jeremy Tyler is a complete bust, congrats on finding a taker. And I have never been high on Jenkins, certainly not as much as others here — no three point shot, poor quickness, below average vision and passing ability.

    But this strictly financial move — it helped Lacob avoid a tiny luxury tax hit — leaves the Warriors without a backup pg in case either Jack or Curry get dinged up for a few games again. Both Jack and Curry play in the finishing lineup.

    Who’s the backup now? Kent Bazemore, who’s not a point guard.

    This is the third straight year that Lacob has stripped the Warriors bench at the trading deadline. Not that I’m counting, or anything.

    By the way, the party line being spread by Lacob’s media minions like Fitz and Rusty Simmons — that this deal was done to help the Warriors avoid the Repeat Offender tax in future years — is a total load of crap.

    Which will become apparent at next year’s trading deadline, when Lacob unloads the expirings of Biedrins and/or Jefferson to once again get himself under the cap.

    • Felt, you are probably right. However, you’ve got to expect them to turn around and make another trade before the deadline this year. Maybe unload Beidrins and one of the second round picks for a back-up point guard? Why else would Beidrins have been receiving playing time over Ezeli?

      • No big deal… should have called Sacramento first!

        I’m just happy Basemore was kept… I worried Myers relationship with Tyler would have kept Tyler here longer. Tyler had promise, but never stepped up.

        Jenkins – great bench kid, combo guard, and Mr. mid-range. No big loss. Not like Jeremy Lin! Lol!

        Gotta hope Atlanta and Philly rebuild so our 2nd rounders are higher! Lol!

  23. I was hoping that Jenkins became an active player like Nate Robinson. He never did. I do think he has good court vision and passing ability. He had a ton of assists when given substantial playing time last year.

    But, on the other hand, the few times he played this year, the Warriors never put the ball in his hands. They used him more as an off-guard. The fact he was leading the league in shooting two-pointers indicates he has some talent. With less playing time. his hot shooting on 2’s, quickly disappeared. But, he did show the ability to easily get into the paint and had some crafty moves inside He has the ability to a rotation player, but Philly has two good PG’s guards in Holliday and Ivey.

    I’m hoping that Leslie turns out to be a combo guard. I agree with Peteb24 that the Warriors should have him join the team immediately.

    It seems that other teams were high on trading for Barnes. Without knowing who was offered for him, one cannot judge if the Warriors were wrong in standing pat. The Warriors seem to have a much higher regard for him, than you and others, including myself, do.

  24. Great story on the only NBA expert whose opinions I value:


    I’ve also played poker with him, at a WPT tournament in LA.

  25. I just had a twitter exchange with Tim Roye, who asked for questions for Bob Myers on tonight’s Warriors Roundtable. I asked Roye to ask Myers whether he really turned down Harden for Klay, as reported by Bill Simmons. Roye responded that Warriors didn’t have what OKC wanted. I then asked him if he thought Bill Simmons was lying? So far, no response.

    I would be very interested to know whether this question is asked of Bob Myers tonight on the roundtable. If anyone happens to catch it, please let me know.

    • Tim Roye’s likely correct. I’d imagine the deal was over with OKC when the W’s included Jefferson or Biedrins or whomever to make the salaries match! And Klay was likely the starting point in discussions!

  26. One very good thing that happened for the Warriors at the trading deadline: The Rockets trading BOTH of their spread-fours for Thomas Robinson. I think they plan on sliding Chandler Parsons to spread-four (but he just sprained his ankle). Perhaps they think that Montiejunas is ready for some minutes there — he can shoot it. But if TRob is slotted in the starting lineup next to Asik, that will completely change their chemistry and floor spacing (not to mention IQ). Either way, their chemistry should be greatly affected

    One very bad thing that happened to the Warriors at the trading deadline: Utah did not trade either Jefferson or Millsap. If Mo Williams returns strong for them, they will be tough for the Warriors to hold off.

    One slightly bad thing: Portland added a much needed backup point guard, Eric Maynor. Although reports of Maynor’s effectiveness this season are not exactly glowing.

    • Just got reminded that Houston’s deal might open up a slot for Royce White. I think that’s more about next year than this, though.

      • Thomas Robinson doesn’t know how to play yet – but what a steal of a trade for the future. Lottery talent for role players.

        Houston had a horrendous draft, but has built an up and coming potential playoff team since then.

  27. Praise for another fallen (discharged) Warrior:

    Charles Jenkins always played hard and took his hits. He had skills. He shot well, ran the offense well, and guarded well. And he held his head up high during one the most embarrassing moments in recent Warrior ineffectual history, the season of tank.


    Note especially this game, when he played 48 minutes in the win against Minnesota:


    24 points, 9 assists, and 6 boards.

    • Quick youtube highlight:

    • the fans who keep pointing to Jenkins’ ability to hit two point shots are glossing over the realities of scoring efficiency in today’s n.b.a. — to justify any meaningful number of 2 point attempts in bigger proportion to 3 pt. shots (Jenkins), you have to convert at an high success rate and get to the line frequently as well. simple arithmetic — .50 at 2 pt. is the same as .33 from beyond the line, and at 95-105 possessions per game you’ll need above l pt. avg. per possession or more to compete. the team’s favored mode of defense, fouling at a high rate, will surrender well more than 1 pt. per possession if they commit shooting fouls and the opponents make around .70 at the line or better ; they’ve won by depending on their own scoring efficiency and three point accuracy from their two or three top shooters.

      2 pt. shooting pct. isn’t particularly useful, instead use true shooting pct. and effective shooting pct., which factor in free throws and the differential in reward from 3 pt. shots. measuring Jenkins’ shooting by those metrics, he was roughly as efficient with his attempts as Ezeli, generally considered one of the team’s poorest scorers. Lee also omits three point attempts in his repertoire, yet his numbers are much stronger with his points in the paint >.50 and free throws.

      • +1 Exactly right, Mr. Moto, thank you.

        • moto and FB—

          I’m praising Jenkins for what he did and who he was, not arguing he should have played more this season or been kept. He was a solid guy who played hard and kept fighting in the muck Lacob has thrown us. We may have to praise better players for a similar reason, simply because it’s all we’ll be able salvage that’s worthwhile.

          Sometimes you have to take what you can get. Chris Hunter is also on my list.

          And we have to sit on the nasty irony that had Jenkins been better, we would have lost the draft pick—and Barnes—which leaves us contemplating more serious regrets and negligible differences that others take seriously but drive us crazy.

          • if lacob really thought Lin had an n.b.a. future they don’t even draft Jenkins, and in that alternative time line/matrix probably not Barnes either, losing the pick to UT. have no problems with that. lacob just wanted quicker capitalization from marketing lin than what he thought he would receive — his bidness greed overtook what little hoops sense he possesses. Chris Hunter’s body did not hold up to what he had to push it to do, if you followed what happened to him post-woeyrs, so there was no viable alternate time line with him.

            jenkins might still have a good career playing in the east under different coaching and facing different competition about half of the schedule.

          • moto—

            Lin couldn’t shoot while we had him and looked like a bust. Barnett, during the Houston game, commented that during practice he couldn’t hit 3 or 4 shots in a row, unguarded. Still I kind of liked him and he was cheap. Lacob got caught, as he so often has, in his Jordan deal, dumping affordable possibilities for dumb, expensive, and impossible deals. How many more players might the Warriors have experimented with if Lacob weren’t so obsessed with tracking down giants?

            Lin looks to have developed a shot, however. How many players are able to do that at this stage in their careers?

            Hunter’s injuries I know about. Still I respect him. Lacob, incidentally, was asked about him by a caller in an event he staged and didn’t know who he was.

    • rgg, here’s another game (and Charles Jenkins moment) to remember. The very next game following the win in Minny, when the Warriors were supposedly in all out “tank mode”, Klay Thompson played, Brandon Rush played, the Dubs led by 5 with less than 2 minutes to play, and Jenkins took the potential game winning shot in the final seconds. If Jenkins makes his shot GSW loses their draft pick to Utah. Thank goodness for “tank mode”, eh?

  28. The Kings made a poor decision drafting Robinson.bot they came out ahead obtaining Patterson in the trade.

    • Frank – you’ve thrown Robinson under the bus already? He’s only a first year kid… Usually takes another couple years to determine he’s an energy role player.

  29. Words for Warriors—Reggie Rose, Derrick’s brother, talks about Chicago’s non-moves at trade deadline:

    “What have you pieced together? Have you made any moves? Have you made any trades to get better? . . . . What pieces have you put together for the physical playoffs? . . . The players can only do so much. It’s up to the organization to make them better. . . . It’s frustrating to see my brother play his heart and soul out for the team and them not put anything around him.”


    • A lot of heat has been thrown Reggie Rose’s way for this, but I think it’s extremely naive to think these comments weren’t authorized by Derrick. Just don’t think Reggie would have the balls to say these things if Derrick didn’t suggest it first. If I’m right, it’s actually quite a savvy move on Derrick’s part: Turns the heat up on management (and skinflint ownership), while maintaining deniability for himself.

      So savvy it may even have been initially suggested by Derrick’s agent.

    • Thanks, Steve.

      OK, so here’s what we know:

      1) Tim Roye was apprised of the Bill Simmons’ assertion that the Warriors passed on Harden for Klay before this interview.
      2) Roye was informed of my interest in having Myers asked about this, and could easily infer the interest of the rest of Warriors Nation.
      3) Roye refused to ask Myers this question.

      For those still wondering whether Roye considers himself a journalist or a Warriors employee, I believe you have your answer.

      • Roye just responded to me on twitter. Here’s the conversation:

        @feltbot: Surprised that @warriorsvox didn’t ask GM Bob Myers about @billsimmons assertion that the #GSW passed on Harden for Klay. Isn’t that something Warriors fans would be interested in hearing answered?

        @warriorsvox: @feltbot things you don’t know…A. GM’s are not allowed to talk about other players, it’s called tampering.

        B. Gm’s historically dont talk about deals that don’t go down so they don’t upset the other partner in case they make another deal

        C. just because he writes it doesn’t make it true, see his basketball book, lots of stuff in there that’s not true

        @feltbot: Appreciate the response. Something I do know: None of the things you said would prevent you from asking the question.

        • Except that reporters who ask unanswerable stinky itchy questions won’t get called on in the next press scrum.

        • LOL. Give the Roye vox Hell Feltie,

          Roye will never talk well about a former Warrior doing good in a game (eg, Dorrell Wright) when talking out of town scores.
          He is a homer as expected.

          Not only should you be the Chron Reporter, you should really be working on the White House Press Corp, good ol USA might have avoided a couple wars!

          I guess some warrior fans expect stenographers for their news.

  30. Rusty Simmons reports on Twitter that Bogut is questionable for tonight with back spasms.

    Can that be believed, given the Lacob Warriors’ history of lying obfuscation with regard to Bogut’s health?

    At any rate, I happen to think that it’s probably fortunate for him that he won’t be exposed to the Spurs. And it’s probably fortunate for the Warriors that they’ll have a mobile defender in the middle.

  31. From 82games.com,

    Charles Jenkins 2011-12 “hands rating” 21.7
    Stephen Curry, 2011-12 “hands rating” 18.4

    Jenkins passing rating 10.0
    Curry passing rating 8.3

    Jenkins assists/48 min. 9.1
    Curry assist/48 min. 9.0

    Curry said Jenkins was the best mid-range shooter on the team. Unfortunately, he might have also been the worst 3-point shooter on the team last year, at 3-20 (.150). Hard to say if that changed this season, as he attempted only two 3-pointers this year (making one).

    The upshot of all this is that Jenkins isn’t terrible. Ballhandling and assists comparable to Curry’s, a basically competent player limited primarily by his long range shooting last year. Personally, I suspect that, like Draymond Green, Jenkins will find his long shot if he hasn’t already. We can’t know from his minutes played this year.

    Dropping Jenkins instead of cultivating him means the Ws will need extended minutes from both Curry and Jack, especially if the FO intends to stay under the salary cap and NOT bring in another backup PG (like possibly Travis Leslie). If the team is serious about the playoffs that seems risky – potentially harmful to Curry’s health and freshness, and to the team as a whole.

    Maybe the team isn’t serious about the playoffs.

    • Sorry, those stats are meaningless. 1) It is far easier to generate clean stats in short minutes than long; 2) Jenkins played against second units, Curry against first, and in crunchtime; 3) The “Hands” rating is a silly stat that accounts for offensive fouls and turnovers. Jenkins just didn’t have the responsibility, nor the authority to take the risks that Curry did to make things happen. Didn’t check the passing rating, but sure it’s something equally silly.

      We have to use our eyes and judgement on this. Bottom line, Curry sees the floor and understands the game at a level that Jenkins can’t approach. And Curry does things that help NBA teams win, and Jenkins really doesn’t, other than eat minutes. Or didn’t. I do like him, though, and hope his continued development turns him into an NBA player.

      I do agree with the sentiment that the Warriors couldn’t afford to let him go, though. They could find themselves with big problems if they don’t add a player to replace him.

      • 1) Yes, agreed, that’s why I referenced last year’s stats for both Jenkins and Curry.

        2) Jenkins played starting PG for the last half of last year, not just 2nd unit.

        3) The hands rating is the only one-note ballhandling measure I’m aware of. It may be silly, but if you have a better quantifiable measure I’d be glad to hear it. Until then, it seems to me that Jenkins’ quantified results look better than what our eyes told us. I agree he “looks” clumsy. But despite his lack of grace it appears he got the job done.

        4) Sorry, simply calling a stat silly doesn’t make your case. Prove it. I’m willing to believe you’re right, but not just because you can’t be bothered to look into it.

        NO ONE would call Charles Jenkins the equal of Stephen Curry. Despite appearances, his stats show he’s serviceable. An empty chair is not. If Curry or Jack goes down, Jenkins will be missed. The team is running riskier without him. That’s all I’m sayin.’

        • I already stated why it’s silly: it doesn’t measure what it purports to (“hands”). And even what it does measure is ridiculously corrupted by the difference in roles and systems the two players play.

          OK, so we’re measuring Curry as a starter against Jenkins as a starter (sometimes). One played on one ankle for a team trying to win, another played healthy for a team trying to lose, in frequent blowouts, with opponents dreaming of post-game debaucheries. They were running completely different offenses, with completely different agendas. There is simply no stat that compares these two players as point guards over the last two years.

          Shooting % is probably the only meaningful stat.

          • Didn’t say Jenkins was the equal of Curry, or that he could lead the Ws as well as Curry in a system designed from the ground up to be Curry-centric.

            Growing up, I would have never chosen to model my game after Charles Jenkins. The dude looks like he’s going to fall down half the time.

            But the stats say Charles ain’t so bad. Better than he looks. And he’s one hell of a lot better than an empty chair.

  32. Maybe you should contact Bill Simmons and ask
    Him to elaborate.

    • Good idea.

      Why am I the only Warriors media member pursuing this shocking allegation? Would the New York Knicks’ media be responding the same way?

      • feltmeister, if you’re not jesting w. us — Simmons after all is foremost a comedy writer — it isn’t that significant. of course NY media can expend a lot of gas on insignificancies. if there was an actual offer, the lacobites would clearly need to expend a lot more resources than just thompson to acquire harden and retain his services, and we’d expect them to balk. lacob has pretty consistently shown his aversion to seriously committing his future revenues, despite endless p.r. trying to convince us of the opposite.

        • Have to disagree. Passing on the third best player in the NBA — virtually no matter what the cost — is hugely significant. If true, an utterly egregious error.

          • if the lacobites did pass it over because of the costs, it doesn’t really tell us anything we didn’t know already. for me that qualifies as insignificant. should we be disappointed or shocked when people behave true to their nature ? saddened or angered by the results, perhaps, when when the lives or health of living organisms are harmed, but that’s not the case. OK, Hou, harden and lin appear to be all doing well.

          • OKC probably wanted too much and wouldn’t take back Jefferson and/Biedrins! Lol! Barnes and Ezeli and Klay for max contract Harden? Above my pay grade…

    • the piece about Tarantino and the motion pic academy made thoughtful comparisons between A and B flicks, but surely A-J knows that gravitas and meaningful content has been but a flag of convenience in the nominations for best picture since they started awarding oscars. a third of his essay becomes his attempt to validate himself as a serious thinker.

  33. The best and perhaps obvious conclusion to make about Lacob’s nonmoves during the trades is not that he is satisfied with the squad and its potential but rather that he’s decided that they can do no more than at best make a token appearance in the playoffs—and we’ll get a preview of that series tonight—thus is content to leave them shorthanded and hobbled and stretched the rest of the season and is planning to make his next masterstroke off season or next.

    • Agreed, with one exception: it’s not clear that LacobMyers has a masterstroke at hand.

      They don’t have a winning team. At best they have a slightly-better-than-average team. They just cut the team’s margin of safety, and didn’t even attempt to acquire the pieces the team needs, all in the name of “staying under the cap.” Saving a few bucks they could easily afford to spend.

      For the rest of the season, LacobMyers is offering something just barely good enough to rope the dopes, aka the Warriors loyal fans.

      I have a place in mind for those damn bobbleheads, and it sure ain’t in my living room. The loyal Warriors fans deserve a winner. LacobMyers obviously doesn’t see it that way.

      • the teams in softer markets don’t look at making the playoffs but failing to advance as an acceptable goal — they don’t want to be stuck in the purgatory of the middle. the lacobites will squeeze all the hype they can out of stumbling into the post season, and revenues even for a single round will be enormous. they’ve done nothing to improve the team for the post season nor for next season and don’t have a draft this summer, unless one of those second round picks they’ve just acquired meets its yet-not-publicized conditions.

      • Since his first masterstroke was the Bogut trade and his second was tanking to get Barnes, both decisions I find busts, better put “masterstroke” in quotes, my intent. If Bogut considers to falter, he may be forced to make another next year, doing I hate to think what, just to bolster his perception of whatever it is he thinks he is doing.

        Lacob is an idiot. If making money and selling jerseys etc. is his goal, he would have found a way to keep the team competitive this year and the following. Lee and Curry and co. but not Bogut started winning games, and look what happened to season ticket sales and sell outs. He could have kept this going for a long time with more intelligent planning.

        moto—What kind of money is there in going 0-4 in the first round of the playoffs?

        • the number suggested informally in recent years was about $1m. additional net per home game. lower of course for the away games, but still a jump from reg. season road games. the advertisers have to pay totally different rates, because a huge number of additional monitors across the country, not just regionally, will be tuned to the games. then there’s the carry over stuff into the following season, more season ticket buyers, more ads sold und so weiter.

          • Sorry – this team is a winning team… 6th seed in the tough western conference with home games galore coming up…

            People who can’t see any good at all from what we’ve seen so far need to readjust their expectations.

  34. Warriors beat writers Rusty Simmons and Marcus Thompson are now hawking Warriors tickets on Twitter. Take a moment to think about that.

    My how “journalism” has changed.

    • one of the other fan blogs has an ad from the official league ticket distributor that lists the market price for coming games — tix for the Tor game start at $3., for Sac they’re $7. much cheaper than going to the cineplex, not that my diet has much room for it. the best flick we’ve recently viewed didn’t cost us anything, ‘the tree of life’ by malick.

  35. Bill Simmons asked how are Warrior fans going to react when they learn that the Warriors last summer were offered Harden for Thompson.

    In response, from now on and until the Warriors affirm or refute his contention, I will end by each post by saying we could have obtained Harden and Warriors management turned it down. Other posters are free to join me.

    The old regime would have made that trade. I’m looking forward to the day that the new management drafts a player like Curry or makes a lopsided trade for a David Lee.

    I think that Myers is a very nice man, but I just wish Warriors management would keep putting down the prior management by stating that they instituted a new “culture” when in fact the owners son was accused of misconduct toward employees, and management fired an employee who complained of Ellis advancement.

  36. Simmons and Thompson have been completely compromised.

    “In the old days” (an uncomfortable phrase for this old guy) selling tix for the subject of your “independent journalism” would have been cause for dismissal.

    Can’t blame Simmons or Thompson, it’s probably worth a few bucks to them. But don’t their publishers have any standards whatsoever?

  37. Not getting Dwight Howard is the best thing that ever happened to Houston. Imagine what they’d be like now, even if Howard were healthy. It allowed them to pull the trigger on Harden and overpay Lin, though Lin may justify that salary. The roster and cap was left flexible so they could make a trade this week (I don’t know what to make of it), and they’ll be able to make deals the next years to keep improving. We’ll probably be staring at their tailpipes for the next three years as well.

    Compare with our roster and future. And Lacob would have gutted the team to pick up Howard, even when he knew (or should have known) the odds were nil he’d stay.

    Meanwhile, we’ll be watching our core players be overplayed the rest of this season and next, without enough to show for their efforts, with consequences I don’t want to think about.

    Reggie Rose again:

    “The players can only do so much. It’s up to the organization to make them better. . . . It’s frustrating to see my brother play his heart and soul out for the team and them not put anything around him.”

    I’m not looking forward to the game tonight. Our guys aren’t getting the support they need.

    Me blud is billin’.

    • the pro leagues ended their season in China, so some ex-n.b.a. players are available for ten day contracts, and the woeyrs have roster room. terrence williams has already landed a job — he told the stateside media, you would not enjoy being a reporter in China. tracy mcgrady, and another former all star guard, marbury, are free agents. not suggesting here, just giving info.

      • Oo baby oo. Would love to see the Ws bring in Marbury, but seriously doubt Warriors management has confidence that they can handle a “bad boy.” Wimps.

      • Any kind of scorer would help, especially if he can both shoot and drive. He’d give more options down the stretch and would improve the defense simply by allowing the defensive players to stay on the floor, especially the second unit.

  38. FeltbotsFakeGirlfriend

    The Andrew Bogut myth takes another turn.


    Andrew Bogut out indefinitely

  39. Bogut’s history of back injuries chronicled here. First time I’ve seen it mentioned by a Warriors writer other than myself.


  40. Aauugh!!! Pluck out my eyes! Just saw St. Jean in a skintight Warriors jersey! Aauugh!!!

  41. San Antonio:

    It’s the uniforms.

    Bogut would have added nothing positive to the game, rather would have detracted. He would have slowed execution on both ends, missing rotations and coverage on defense. Lee did quite fine on Duncan. And he would have taken Landry off the floor, more mobile, and his points.

    I would be curious, however, to have seen what would have happened if Green and Jefferson had taken all Barnes’s minutes.

  42. FeltbotsFakeGirlfriend

    Houston we have a problem. The Warriors beat the Spurs and that is never a good thing. Feltbot is going to be miserable and spin some BS about how lucky the Warriors were to beat the Spurs.

    • You don’t read his posts, do you? FB is going to tell us exactly why they beat the Spurs.

      • FeltbotsFakeGirlfriend

        Keep drinking that kool aide. Feltbot is going to manipulate the numbers and flip flop his position countless times. Than once he is exposed as a liar he stops arguing.

  43. Great win for the Warriors.

    Jack’s outstanding performance guaranteed that Lacob will resign him and pay the luxury tax.

    It’s hard enough to beat the Spurs, but the Warriors had to also beat there coaches decision to play Barnes so many minutes and not play both Green and Jefferson in his stead. If Jackson had done so, the Warriors would have won handily. By allowing Barnes to play at the end of the fourth quarter, Jackson assured an overtime. He did not make the same mistake at the end of the game as he inserted Green.

    Green should only shoot two pointers and not threes. He actually should shoot as little as possible until he starts making the few shots he takes. He’s been brutal shooting lay-ups.

    Bogut was not missed at all as the Warriors regained their chemistry and hopefully going forward their chemistry.

    The Warriors turned down a trade for Harden this past summer.

    • Jefferson would be a better smallball 4 than Barnes… Would have knocked Tiago off the floor for sure – although Splitter on the floor may be a good thing. Barnes’ defense on Manu at end of regulation almost cost them the game…

      Lee? Nice defense! Unexpected…

      Jack’s gonna get paid! Somewhere. Hopefully here. Trade for someone like Tyreke (big PG) if Jack leaves.

      • I went back and watched the replay of Barnes defending Manu at the end of regulation. Barnes was basically doing jumping jacks trying to tip the entry pass. While he was in the air Manu made two cuts and dove toward the hoop for the game tying basket. Barnes literally couldn’t lay a finger on him to tie him up. Where was Jefferson on that possession?
        I have a little theory about Barnes. I think he’s still growing and he is not able to fully control his body yet, hence the award dribbling style and slow reactions on defense. He’s clearly no Lebron, but before his career is finished, he may wind up very big for a SF.
        Also, he never learned a proper triple threat position.

  44. Man, what a gutty game. Did anyone watch the Spurs/Clippers game and can make a comparison, i.e. what did we do differently? The Spurs ripped through them easily, and no one played that much. Parker dominated the Clips, not so much us. Was it an off night for him, or was our defense, in fact, more effective?

    The Spurs were in regular season cruise mode, but still all its major players had heavy minutes.

    It’s amazing. I always know when Green is on the floor. I just checked the box score and was surprised to find Barnes played 31 minutes last night. He’s just invisible.

  45. If only Lacob hadn’t amnestied Charlie Bell. One year, $5m, right? And possibly a tradable expiring contract. Had he saved the amnesty it would have been a simple, prudent move that would have protected the team and given it options—and saved possibly $20 in cap space over two years, plus whatever the penalty is.

  46. The Warriors one last night in part to going small in the second half and Landry, Green, and Lee obtaining more offensive rebounds than the Spurs in the second half and scoring off these rebounds. Also, the Warriors committed less turnovers in the second half than the Spurs. It’s ironic that small ball and more quickness leads to more offensive rebounds, and thus additional possessions.

    In the first half, the Warriors obtained less OR and committed more turnovers than did the Spurs which negated the Spurs poor shooting as they had many additional possessions than did the Warriors.

    Jack, Landry ,and Lee carried the offense.

    Yhe Warriors play so much better defense without Bogut. A front line of Green, Landry, and Lee is more mobile than a front line with Bogut in it.

    Harkless, who the Warriors should have drafted instead of Barnes had his third terrific game in succession. As he played 46 minutes, shot 8-17 from the field, made a three, had an astounding 6 offensive rebounds, 3 defensive rebounds, 1 steal, and and a block. Barnes, on the other hand had his third bad game as he shot 1-8 from the field, had no offensive rebounds, nor steals or block shots. He should not have been on the court for 31 minutes as his defense was also terrible.

    He did get to the foul line and shot 5-6. It now appears that teams set their defenses to stop his drive and that he has no clue that he is driving into the trap set for him.

    Why the Warriors did not trade Barnes at the trade lime, at a time he still had value and was considered a hot commodity defies explanation. As surely the Warriors would have improved their roster,even though we don’t know who was offered in return.

    We were offered a trade for Harden and turned it down.

  47. FB – this blog is getting better and better. Steve has been addition by subtraction.. – think Monta trade – Steve was a volume blogger. Loved the Voulgaris link and the Jabbar links. All great reads.

    Frank – like the tag line of warriors could have traded for harden.. But to really make your point the tag line should say could have traded Thompson for Harden… That is the incredible part of the deal… So here we now get the longer term ramifications of the Charlie Bell amnesty and the Bogut trade. Cutting Jenkins. And not having the cap space to take on Harden contract.. (Steve – weren’t you saying that the FB suggestion of a Harden trade was preposterous???)

    I think last night’s great win also proves out that Jack has to play Barnes. Just after calling out the team for poor defense and general lousy play – Jack gives Barnes 31 minutes???? The last play in regulation, -the “great play drawn up by Pop ”-(Mullin on espn) – a simple give and go… Barnes goes to give help on the ball while his man streaks to the basket… So the great tanking strategy has given us a “face of the franchise uniform model” who gives us empty minutes…

    Steve – in case you are reading – you’ve missed another FB flip flop. At the time of the Harden-Hou trae – FB said that Harden would be exposed as the go to guy for Houston. Now he calls him 3rd best player in the league. I have no problem with this flop as I agree with both sentiments…

    Finally I can’t believe the espn announcers routinely saying they would just love to see Bogut healthy with the W’s in the postseason for his “defense” and ability to work with Lee. What a joke – I guessed they missed the 6 losses in a row when Bogut starts playing….

    • Very good points Buckaroo.

      ESPN broadcasters get their talking points when meeting with the teams on game day. Most (Sir Charles excepted) parrot the team lines.

      After watching the game last night, I realized the Warrior media all like the new uniforms (everyone). Now if that doesn’t exhibit Lacob bias, nothing does…

      Lotta flip flops. Interesting to see when Dubs media turn on Bogut. The team clearly did not miss him and played their best game since his return.

      Barnes though merely did a Klay brain fart. Seen it happen many times. Feltbot very hard on him, and I am hoping the Black Falcon turns it around. Tough shooting night for him too. He is just a rookie, give him some time (worked for J Lin).

      • agree that barnes might develop but I am wondering about FB’s comment that defensive intensity and rebounding are part of your dna. When I see Barnes just standing there – it is puzzling to me. Perhaps if he saw Green starting ahead of him – he might get that motivation. Maybe the W’s force feeding him minutes is holding him back.

    • Nice analysis Buck, and I was wondering when someone would call me out for that Harden flip-flop.

      I was quite obviously wrong, and mea culpa. But I am not someone to stick with an incorrect opinion in the face of new evidence.

      Harden is not only the Rocket’s best scorer, he’s their best point guard, and best defender. He’s a mini-Lebron. An incredible player.

      And what I like best about him is that his game is almost completely unreliant on athleticism. He’s like Brandon Roy in his prime, only twice as good.

      • Ws recent losing streak – it’s really more about home-away schedule more than anything. Just like getting San Antonio on end of back to back at home, Ws rested, and new unis? Lol!

        Lots of homes games after one more big road stretch. I see 48-50 wins a likely reality…

  48. Sorry, Frank – forgot to append, “W’s turned down Thompson for Harden trade”…

  49. We didn’t need to tank last year nor make the trade for Bogut to improve our roster.

    Don’t you think we could have treaded Ellis for a first round pick in the 11-14 range and drafted Harkless, and obtained another player in the deal?

    We would have still had Udoh, traded for Jack, signed Landry, and had $7 million to spend on a free agent by letting K. Brown go.

    And traded Harden for Thompson. Thanks Buckaroo.

    Such a constituted team along with Curry and D.Lee would have kicked ass throughout the playoffs.

    • Great points Frank. However, a large number of folks wanted an Ellis Curry backcourt…

      W’s would have had to take on a big contract to trade away Ellis + receive a first rounder – salary match. Who knows who this would have been? Beno?

      Udoh – not doing much of anything in Milwaukee. Shooting 40% from the field as a big? Still not rebounding.

      Klay for Harden – would BEGIN the discussions. No way Klay traded for a max player straight up. Unless you or OKC is a max value! Think OKC front office plays like that? Need to match salaries in the trade!

      I’ll take Bogut, Barnes, Ezeli, Jack, Landry, Rush, Klay, and Jerry West…

  50. folks, the lacobites aren’t really attracted to deals if they think they’re paying the market price — they like to think they’re smarter and can pick up stuff below it. that’s the essence of the arena development proposal. their bid for d.jordan wasn’t near market price, which was fortunate of course. decent bigs have a bit of an extra premium, so they speculated on a reasonable price, avoiding the premium, for the rights to tyler. the deal for harden would take much more than just thompson, and why get your knickers twisted because the team’s assessment doesn’t align with yours ?

    don’t have to feel left out from watching harden play, either — that team with its fast pace is more entertaining than the woeyrs in many ways.

    • My hats off to Houston GM Morey. Dumped his entire roster except Parsons for draft picks to make way for Dwight Howard. Didn’t get it done. Had a horrendous draft. Owner on record saying Morey’s done of no playoffs!

      What does Morey do? Signs Lin and Asik. And gives up the store for Harden – giving him max money.

      Now the Rockets are as promising (like most teams – without major injury) as most teams – with their cap space and assets for next season.

      However, the Ws are still the #6 seed with all those home games!!!

      Go Ws!

  51. American Beret

    @ 43: “I would be curious, however, to have seen what would have happened if Green and Jefferson had taken all Barnes’s minutes.”

    My guess: a regulation win for the Ws.

    @45 Frank: “Jack’s outstanding performance guaranteed that Lacob will resign him and pay the luxury tax.”

    I wish that were a lock. The Warriors passed on Harden.

    @46: “I always know when Green is on the floor. I just checked the box score and was surprised to find Barnes played 31 minutes last night. He’s just invisible.”

    For lots of reasons, mostly standard measurements and statistics, Green doesn’t add up as an NBA player. He’s too small, he’s too big. He’s too slow, he’s too hyperactive. He can’t make a shot.

    But he’s hyperactive on both ends of the floor. His teammates get him the ball because he tends to figure out where to get outlet passes. And last night I saw him stay in front of Tony Parker, running backward as fast as Parker charged forward at him. Go figure. The guy is unconventional as all hell, but I’d pick him in a playground over Barnes anytime. He’s a winner.

    @ 51: “We would have still had Udoh, traded for Jack, signed Landry, and had $7 million to spend on a free agent by letting K. Brown go.”

    Yes indeed. Among other alternatives, $7mm = three Kenyon Martins or EIGHT Rasheed Wallaces.

    The Warriors passed on James Harden.

  52. No disrespect to Harden – but after 2 seasons in the NBA, I didn’t think he’d be a max player…

    After 1 3/4 seasons, Klay has the potential to be Harden good.

    And Ws don’t have to pay Klay max money, take on bad contracts, or give away Barnes, Ezeli, or other future assets required to make a deal happen with the genius Sam Presti… Presti would have fleeced us for sure… They got good value for Harden as it was.

    It shouldn’t surprise us that Presti wanted Klay…

    We all like to bag on Klay, but he’s going to be damn good once he matures, improves, and puts it all together…

    • You’re right, PB, Klay could be special someday. Last night he actually did contain Parker for the most part. Even earlier this season it would have been hard to imagine him doing that.

      Until this year it was also difficult to imagine Harden leading a team. Playing next to Durant and Westbrook he always looked like an extra. A fantastic extra, but not a leading man. Not equivalent to Durant, certainly.

      On the other hand, as of last season’s end Harden was one of the most efficient offensive players in the history of the NBA, and a decent defender too. While hiring him would have been a huge headache for the Ws, there’s no doubt that he’d have improved the team.

      So blowing off the opportunity to grab Harden – if the Ws actually did that – would definitely say things about the Ws front office’s commitment to excellence. Something along the lines of “Sure they want to win, but only if it doesn’t cost too much.”

      The Warriors could have had Harden.

      • The Ws could have had Harden.

        The Ws could have had Eric Gordon as well… Lol!

        • If the Warriors FO had made a few different choices, they could have had built a flat-out destroy-all-comers team this year. If they had chosen to.

          Readily available winning players Lacob/Myers have passed on in the last 10 months or so:

          Stephen Jackson
          Stephon Marbury
          Rasheed Wallace
          Kenyon Martin
          Ekpe Udoh
          Monta Ellis

          And James Harden.

          • Winning players???

            Last time I checked Monta Ellis and Ekpe Udoh are on a losing team. If they were so great the Bucks would not be below .500

  53. PeteyBrian: Your argument that Udoh still shoots around 40% and does not get defensive rebounds (he did get offensive rebounds playing for the Warriors which are so more important) is the same argument that was made last year when he was traded.

    You ignore that Udoh with the same poor individual stats, that the Warriors, not a particularly good team last year, outscored there opponents by almost 7 points every 48 minutes when Udoh was on the court. That is because the Warriors offense and defense worked better than even this year with him on the court. He took few shots and by doing so the other Warriors os did the scoring.He did not get defensive rebounds, but other Warriors did. He was a force inside defensively and that is why the Warriors outscored their opponents when he was on the court. Bogut does not provide that defensive presence. The Warriors need a mobile center. Warriors management joins you in not knowing what a good center is. Foremost in making decision regarding trades is how a team performs with a a particular player on the court, and not his individual stats, although stats are a consideration. But when the player is not shooting nor scoring much and the team is scoring at a high percentage, and is not garnering defensive rebounds but other players are, and that player is significantly reducing the opponents shooting %, and that player helps you kill the opponent in scoring by doing so, that player is special. In the last few years, Bogut has not been special. Udoh was for the Warriors.

    The Warriors would have been a monster team this year with Udoh, Harkless, and Harden, and not Bogut, Barnes, and Thompson.

    No one on the Warriors are coming anywhere near helping the Warriors outscore their opponents as Udoh did last year.

    I didn’t say the Warriors would have traded Ellis to Milwaukee, and your speculating that we would only have received back Udrich is to mislead posters into thinking we would have gotten no one good back in addition to a high draft pick. You do the same thing with regard to trading for Harden.

    Thompson will never, I will repeat, never be as good as Harden. I think you are speaking as a hopeful Warrior fan and not one who has witnessed Thompson shoot 5-14 night after night. With all due respects, in my opinion, you are not being dispassionate in reaching assessments about players, and have let non-factors (FG% on few shots taken and DR) influence your thinking.

    By not having Harden, Harkless, Udoh, Curry, D. Lee, Jack, Landry this year and next, the Warriors, even if they make the playoffs, in my opinion, are not going to go as far in the playoffs as they would have with that team.

    Barring some good trade or trades, the Warriors won’t be contenders until Bogut, Jefferson, and Biedrins contracts run out simultaneous after next year.

    All one can say is that the Warriors have made some good moves in trading for Jack, and signing Landry, and really bad moves in getting rid of Udoh, trading for Bogut, not trading Ellis for a draft pick in which we could have drafted Harkless, and traded Thompson for Harden. These bad moves far outweigh their good moves.