Home Cooking: Warriors 105 Pistons 97

Nothing like a couple of home games against wretched teams to cure what ails the Warriors.  The Knicks without Amare and with Melo on one leg, and the Pistons without… eh, it doesn’t even matter who they were without. They’re the Greg Monroe Pistons. Soft as a marshmallow, and about as quick as one too.

Still, it was a little disturbing that the Warriors couldn’t put this team away early. And wound up winning by virtually the identical score with which they won earlier in the year in Detroit, with a rookie in the middle.

80% of Bogut: Bogut is one of the better completely stationary players in the league. He can rebound flat-footed. He can change shots and even block them flat-footed. He can pass beautifully out of the high post without moving an inch. And he can set a mean stationary screen. If he could shoot, he’d be almost playable. But, alas.

The Warriors have apparently decided to play him almost exclusively out of the high post. In fact, I saw them frequently use him and Lee in a double high post configuration, where Curry could decide which big man to work with. This is a clever way to open up the middle for Curry–Lee pick and roll, or drives and cuts by Harrison Barnes and Klay Thompson. Particularly given the fact that Bogut is completely ineffective in the low post, as we’ve seen.

It also makes it a lot easier for Bogut to get back on defense, which is a big problem for him. It was even a problem tonight, against a team as wretchedly slow and unathletic as the Pistons.

Unfortunately, what we’ve seen in the last four games is that Bogut in the high post only works against horrible defensive teams, or teams with bad coaches. The reason is that Bogut simply doesn’t have to be guarded out there, leaving his man free to blitz Curry, or simply guard the paint while another perimeter player blitzes Curry, and everyone else rotates. It should be obvious that the difference between the 54 point explosion that Curry laid on the Knicks, and the utter offensive meltdowns the Warriors suffered against the Rockets and the Bucks, can be attributed almost entirely to the presence of Bogut on the floor.

On balance, I think Bogut was probably somewhat effective in this game. But I think he will remain a huge liability against the better teams, like the Rockets and Bucks, who can push the tempo against the Warriors. It is a virtual guarantee that he will get run off the floor by the Nuggets, Spurs or Thunder, should the Warriors draw them in the playoffs.

He is also completely susceptible on defense to teams that have quick and athletic guards. Even in this game, we saw the Warriors get eaten up in the paint by the midrange games of Bynum and Stuckey. Bogut just wasn’t able to move well enough to give help against them.

And as noted, against teams that aren’t the Knicks or the Pistons, he makes it easy to take Curry out of the game.

If the end of this game is any indication, though, it’s no given that Bogut will even still be around come playoff time. It was quite clear that his back had seized up on him. He was almost completely unable to run the court, and when he was removed from the game, he stood by the bench trying to stretch it out, giving us a triple-strength Bogut face. I don’t think that was his ordinary grimace.

And after the game it was noted that he was icing his back earlier in the game while on the bench.

Stephen Curry: Curry is this year’s anti-Bogut. He is as close to completely healthy as I ever remember seeing him. I was particularly impressed by all those drives he unleashed against the Knicks in MSG. He displayed a quickness that was completely missing in action the last few years.

Now if only we could get back to that open floor basketball that allowed those drives to happen.

Curry’s playing at such a high level right now that he’s virtually demanding a double team at the three point line. Opposing defenses would be well-advised to gameplan to get the ball out of his hands. Guard him with your off-guard, like Danny Green, Thabo Sefalosha or Andre Iguodala, and trap him whenever possible. The Warriors have an answer for that with their small lineup, but with the big lineup in, it’s been instant death.

It should be noted that Curry’s turnover problems have a lot to do Bogut’s presence in the lineup. He’s dealing with a lot more blitzes and traps. And in general, half-court offense leads to a lot more turnovers than early offense. As I’ve pointed out before, the Warriors had fewer turnovers playing with a rookie Curry and skeleton roster of D-leaguers in Nellie’s last year, than they have had in any year since then.

Bob Fitzgerald suffered one his spasms in this game after a Curry turnover on a left-handed pass. “One-handed pass… You just can’t get away with that in this league.” I guess Bob hasn’t noticed that virtually all assisted passes in this league are one-handed.

A few games ago I was watching the Warriors on the ESPN broadcast, when Curry drove the baseline and threw an unbelievable left-handed laser all the way out to Jarret Jack at the top of the key, for an open three-pointer. This was the great Jeff van Gundy’s comment:

Stephen Curry’s left-handed pass reminds me of Steve Nash’s. It’s a tremendous weapon.

Klay Thompson: Thompson had a bit of a stinker shooting the ball in this game, but he has been playing at an incredibly high level lately. I took some heat recently for calling his finishing problems “trivial”, and predicting they would rapidly disappear. Well, can you recall a blown layup in the last two weeks? Klay simply has too much talent not to correct that.

In the six games previous to this one, Klay shot 50% from the field. Even adding this down game to the equation, he is the 19th ranked fantasy player in the league over the last seven games, with these stat averages:

21 pts, .466%, 3.7 3s, 3.6 reb, 2.3 ast, 1.1 stl 0.7 blk, .833% ft.

Those are flat-out all-star numbers folks, from a player in his second year.


The Brand: Fitz and Barnett erupted in joy over Barnes’ four spoon-fed dunks in this game. My reaction? Playing with Curry, Thompson, and Lee he could get those every game. He could get six or seven of them, even.

Barnes, like Dorell Wright before him, is the player being left open by the defense. If he cuts smartly, as he did tonight, he should get a lot of dunks.

Earlier this season, he was attempting to fill the Dorell Wright role by hanging out at the three point line. But as we’ve learned, he’s an inefficient three point shooter. And he appears to have lost confidence in the shot.

He’s also terribly inefficient at those mid-post isos the Warriors have been feeding him for development purposes. I’m not sure they want to continue trying to develop his mid-post game as the playoff race tightens. Nor in the playoffs themselves. And in fact they completely went away from it in this game.

As the playoffs approach, Barnes should be restricted to looking for dunking opportunities in the flow of the offense. That’s something he can do, and it’s virtually the only thing he can reliably do at this point.

As for defense….

Did you notice he only got 19 minutes, despite his dunkathon, and despite the fact that Draymond Green sprained his ankle?

There you have it. Not from me, but from Mark Jackson.

76 Responses to Home Cooking: Warriors 105 Pistons 97

  1. Good wrap-up! I was thinking some of the same things about Bogut. He could be effective against certain teams and for certain durations but is Mark Jackson willing to play the match-up game and sit him or move him to the second unit? I’m also crossing my fingers with Bogut’s health; I imagine Jackson is playing Bogut as much as he is to get him in shape but it looks like Bogut is about to break.

    +1 on Steph Curry’s one-handed passing. His ambidextrous, one-handed passing is a weapon and I don’t think he turns it over any more one-handed than two-handed. He needs to work on his turnovers in general but Fitz needs to stop talking about one-handed passes (and field goal % defense.) He sounds like a boob.

    You forgot one thing about Klay; his defense has been more than serviceable, too.

    Barnes performance is a head-scratcher until I remember he is still 20 years old for another two and a half months. I think the pro game has been a little too much for him, mentally more than anything. The more he was asked to do, the more hesitant he became. He had a perfectly decent three-point shot the first month but it withered, he’s adjusting to the length of the season, and I think he had trouble with the rookie treatment he’s gotten from the refs. I remember several times during the season where he was simply crushed by the defense and he got no call and he went into his shell. I still have a strong prognosis on his contribution by the time he is Klay’s age.

  2. warriorsablaze

    Curry’s stats for the season are better in every category than klay’s in this stretch of games…including more rebounds, which isn’t good for your small forward argument. Klay has been playing well lately, but those are hardly all star performances. As for curry, let’s all bask in the glory of a historic season of shooting. Has anyone ever led the league in attempts, makes, AND %? He’s currently doing that…even with the defense focusing on him. Amazing

  3. Perfectly willing to believe Klay Thompson can be a good player someday, but last night wasn’t evidence of it. He was 3-4 on layups (he missed a wide open layup!) and 1-100 or so on all his other shots.

    EVERY other player on the floor – on both teams – had better shooting nights than Thompson.

    Bad timing, Feltie. “Thompson the offensive genius” is a hard sell after last night’s performance.

    • True – horrible shooting night for Klay. And when he’s not hitting, the other parts of his game aren’t good enough to justify playing him!

      When Klay’s not hitting from the perimeter, he needs to take his man off the dribble, which he can do, but chooses not to. I think Klay actually avoids contact unlike James Harden – who RUNS into contact. Sometimes you drive merely to draw the foul…

      Klay’s obvious next step is to get to the line more and drive to the hoop more – he’s avg. 16.7 ppg without many free throws or layups… When he adds these parts, a 20 ppg scorer…

    • Don’t know how I missed that blown layup. Can you give me the time and quarter?

      • Q3, 7:08, Klay missed the layup and Bogut got the offensive board and pushed it back in.

      • Thank you sir, and OK, but that’s not the kind of wide open layup attempt that has had people shaking their head, is it?

        That was a left-hand runner with a player at his elbow, that 99% of players in the league don’t even have in their repertoire. No one’s going to fault him for missing those.

        Which is not to say Klay wouldn’t like it back.

  4. Thanks FB!
    Way way too harsh on Bogut’s game, but it’s okay – you’ll flip flop like you usually do – when the time comes!!!

    All I care about with Bogut is that he’s somewhat healthy for a playoff series where he’s most needed. And that he fits in by playoff time. Bogut and Ezeli – make for a very good defensive center tandem – in the playoffs!

    I didn’t watch much of this game, but what I did see was Bogut shut down Greg Monroe. Blocked his shots. Altered shots. Drew a couple offensive fouls… Made some nice passes to cutters. Sure, no low post game and little offensive rebounding in the high post…

    Harrison Barnes – games like this will prevent me from throwing him under the bus yet – like half the folks here. True, part of Barnes’ role is dependent on Lee, Klay, Lee, and Bogut – all being such excellent, willing passers – and a slasher/finisher/defender is really needed on this team (2 out of three ain’t bad!). Offensively – a young Richard Jefferson is all I want out of Barnes (slashing freak athlete/finisher). I agree that his defense is lacking, but Barnes still got time for improvement here.

    Barnes can’t shoot threes? Sure he can! Barnes at 35% for the season really is AT expectation here – not great, but not horrible either. What did we expect??? He’s a rookie! In comparison, ROY Lillard is at 35.8 % from three pt. land.

    Barnes was handed the starting job and has been going through the motions… I’m glad Mark Jackson’s finally jerking around Barnes playing time – Nellie style. It ain’t about his bad defense or lack of it. It’s actually helping motivate the kid. Nellie was a champion at this – even when kids are playing well, just to tick the player off! Barnes needs to be coached, inspired – to get the most out of him… Nice, smart kid syndrome – Barnes’ got it and needs his inner beast unleashed!

  5. Bogut music @1, in case anyone missed the point.

    I watched Bogut rebounds, and I don’t recall any that didn’t come straight to him. Monroe drove straight at him, as I remember. I can’t believe they couldn’t have run him off plays and he would have scored easily.

    Fitz’s comments were endearing. “Doesn’t quite have his lateral movement yet.” “Hasn’t recovered from elbow injury.”

    I don’t think the team learned anything at all last night.

    • Sometimes you don’t learn anything. Sometimes you just win.

      I’ll take the win over some object lesson in a losing effort, especially at this time of the year.

  6. Players in shot clock era who have averaged better than 22 pts / 6.5 assists / 4.0 rebounds on .580 true shooting:

    Curry (current)

    That’s the complete list.


    • Nice company. It’s somehow even more amazing from the two little guys, Curry and CP3, isn’t it?

      We are incredibly lucky to have this basketball wizard on our team.

  7. “One-handed pass… You just can’t get away with that in this league… I guess Bob hasn’t noticed that virtually all assisted passes in this league are one-handed”

    felt have to say thanks for that! Utter bullshit that Fitz & all his ‘echo s’ perpetuate that crap…when you speak of “myths” that should be at the top of the list!

    • Fact: You have less control with 1-handed passes. When you make them, great, when you don’t it’s probably because you telegraphed it and were not able to change the passing angle. Curry’s 1-handers are better this year than last because they are not lazy. They used to be lazy and Fitz has those stuck in his dome.

      Lacob loves a good homer, and Fitz is really at the top of the list. The thing that scares me about Fitz is how little he knows about the game of basketball after broadcasting and talking about it for so many years.

  8. Felty:

    After telling us that Bogut will not play well against good teams, you declare Thompson to be a all-star caliber player based on his performance the last 7 games (ignoring the rest of the season) when he played against five bad teams.

    And then you go on to extoll his shooting 46% from the field during those seven games. You also omit that he only obtained 1 offensive rebound during those seven games. Just one. Simply awful. That is an important stat.

    On the other hand, Harkless, a rookie, played against five good teams teams over the last 7 games, shot 59% from the field, not 46% as Thompson did, and has garnered 12 offensive rebounds over the course of those 7 games. That’s twelve extra possession for Orlando compared to Thompson providing the Warriors with 1 extra possession.

    Thompson may well prove to be a terrific player, but he is not earned being placed in that category as of this date. Be careful not to create the Thompson myth.

    • I would like to make a general plea for discretion in using abstracted information (last 5 games, last 8 Wednesdays with my moon in Venus, etc.) This is where stats can be made to say whatever we want. Harkless and Thompson are two very different players. If you look at the full season data you’ll see that Thompson is clearly a better shooter and Harkless is clearly a better rebounder. Curiously, the Advanced Stats line in Basketball-Reference.com has their overall contribution rates (ws/48, drtg,ortg) almost identical with Harkless better in some and Klay in others, by the smallest margins.

      Frank, one special caution for you. As a Warriors fan, you should know to beware of second-half stats on a losing team. Mirages, frequently mirages.

  9. Raja Bell was waived so Utah could pick up Travis Leslie. Any team can pick him up, but because he was waived after the March deadline, he’s ineligible for playoffs.


  10. You Tired: Losing teams are losing teams, no more, no less. I don’t think they play worse than otherwise when eliminated from the playoffs.

    Agree that Thompson is by far a better 3-point shooter than Harkless, although Harkless has improved dramatically over the course of the season. Don’t know why you say that Thompson is a much better shooter as Harkless has shot 52% on two’s, Thompson 45% on 2’s. Maybe that’s why advanced stats have them making a nearly equal contribution to their respective teams.

    Jackson clearly limited Landry to playing only 11 minutes due to his three turnovers. Still would like to see Landry on the court in the fourth quarter over Thompson given that he garners offensive rebounds, and shoots a higher FG%.

    • Frank, I agree with you that Landry should be playing more, but only when he’s having a good game. If he’s shooting poorly and turning the ball over, he should not be in the game. If he’s scoring, especially hitting that mid-range jumper, he needs to keep getting shots. That’s not always the case.

    • Frank, I was looking at True Shooting % which factors in 2’s, 3’s, and free throws when I said Klay is a better shooter at .533 to Harkless at .516. Thompson’s higher usage rate at 21.8 means that the team is benefitting from his better shooting a greater amount of the time than Harkless’ 14.3. I like Harkless; I’m curious to see how he develops.

      Interesting thought on Landry but who else is in the game if Thompson isn’t? If you assume Bogut, Lee then you have Landry playing the three, with probably Jack and Curry. I don’t know about Landry at the 3. If you have Lee at the 5, and Landry at the 4, Jack and Curry, then aren’t you really replacing Thompson with Barnes? Green? or Bazemore? I don’t know about that either. Landry and Thompson seem like apples and oranges. I’d like to see Landry with some more time too but probably to spell Lee more and see if fewer minutes for Lee allows him to up his intensity on defense or at least reduce the likelihood of injury. If Lee goes down, the Warriors are toast.

  11. I found the tone of this piece interesting, particularly in regards to Bogut. And in general, it is interesting to me as a media critic to observe how beat writers walk the tightrope of truthfulness on the one hand and self-preservation on the other.

    Marcus Thompson does a better job than most.


  12. Look for more flopping from Curry. And more hard screens being set for him. Both welcome developments.


    • warriorsablaze

      Excellent. This is the next development in Curry’s game. People keep moaning and groaning about “needing a superstar”… Someone please tell me by what measure Curry is not precisely that. There’s Lebron, Durant, and then everyone else. Curry is very high up in that “everyone else” category….people have just been slow to catch on.

      • Absolutely agree. His growth this year…due almost 100% to being healthy…has been phenomenal. He’s keeping his dribble alive a l Steve Nash while probing the lane, he’s playing better defense; he rebounds very well for a point guard; he’s the best shooter in the game. Imagine when he starts getting the “superstar calls.” Sky’s the limit.

  13. All players should only play when they are playing well. I like Landry playing in the fourth quarter over Thompson because he shoots a higher eff.FG percentage and obtains more possessions via offensive rebounds.What position he plays is inconsequential given that the coach can design appropriate plays for whoever is on the court.

    You Tired: If you really want to compare the effectiveness on offense of Thompson and Harkless one needs to factor the fact that Harkless gets many more OR’s than Thompson, and thus more points were scored by Orlando,so Harkless is a better offensive player by far.

    • What does that even mean, Frank? So, if Curry has an off shooting night, he shouldn’t play? The fate of a game can turn on one play. I’ll trust those players who have demonstrated results more times than not.

  14. I also suspect that a line-up of Jack. Curry, Landry. Lee. and Green would be our best line-up in the fourth quarter given Bogut’s lack of mobility.With Green told not to shoot unless he’s at the rim.

  15. It appears that I’m no longer the only writer who’s noticed Harrison Barnes’ terrible defense.

    Rookie rankings: http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2013/03/14/sheridan-hoops-rookie-rankings-week-19/

  16. Keith Smart and Tyreke Evans on Patrick Patterson’s starting role in the King’s demolishing of the Bulls, and why having a spread four is so vital in today’s NBA:


  17. Good article from Rusty Simmons on Klay’s improved defense:


    My takeaway: Klay has made himself a decent defender through hard work, desire and a genius hoops IQ.

    The first is an option for Harrison Barnes. But I don’t think you can manufacture the second two.

  18. http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/mark-jackson-extortion-plea-875631

    “Court records do not detail the nature of the relationship between Adams and Shaw, both of whom live in Atlanta.

    Free on bail, Adams is scheduled for a May 6 trial. Now a licensed esthetician, Adams operates a nail salon.”

    So now Mark Jackson’s “girlfriend” runs a nail salon. She’s a “licensed esthetician” in Atlanta GA.

    Q: Why is Alexis Adams’ trial going be held in Oakland, CA? The alleged offense supposedly occurred in Memphis TN. The “girlfriend” and her alleged accomplice are supposedly both residents of Atlanta GA. The alleged victim’s official residence is in southern CA.

    Q: How does a stripper with a pending felony extortion case assemble the wherewithal to start a business?

    Q: Why did Alexis Adams’ alleged accomplice plead guilty months in advance of his trial?

    None of this adds up unless there is a lot of no-questions money involved.

  19. Chicago is precisely the physical kind of team Bogut was brought in to play against.

    It is no coincidence that they got behind his first minutes, got caught up when he went out, and went down again when he returned 2nd. half. And after his stint 2nd. half, the damage was already done.

    The defense ran circles around him.

    When Noah played out, he was helpless.

    On a couple of occasions Lee was caught in that red zone because he didn’t know that Bogut would cover (Barnett noted this).

    On offense his screens are not crisp, and aren’t set quickly in the flow of the defense and offense to be of any use. And no one covers him when he comes out, so the other players are defended tighter.

    He is no use whatsoever playing up front, boards or scoring.

    He is no help whatsoever in transition, up tempo offense and his only contribution here is to leave the others short-handed. Rather, he slows offense so they can’t get into an rhythm.

    Which is not to say they win without him. But with Bogut in, they don’t have a chance.

    • Meant to say:

      It is no coincidence that they got behind his first minutes, got caught up when he went out, and went down again when he returned 2nd. quarter. And after his stint 3rd. quarter, the damage was already done.

      Replay youtube @1

    • if they really thought bogut would help specifically against a player like noah, it shows the power of imagination more than anything. boozer has usually thrived vs. the woeyrs, and if containing him was the only priority, maybe a big center could help. but noah has mobility, ball skills, defense and board skills, and bogut was disabled and immobilized when the team acquired him.

      the preacher has handcuffed himself in a game like this because he won’t just sit bogut once it’s clear he’s overmatched, and he wants to use him with his best players, not his reserves.

  20. If the Warriors wanted an easy way to help themselves this season, they would have kept Nate Robinson. They had him. He was cheap ($865k at Chicago).

    He could have filled in when one of the guards went down to injury.

    He could have spelled Curry so he’s not playing so many minutes.

    He could have played with Jack in the second unit to give them a scoring boost.

    He could have been brought in at any time during the game to give a scoring boost.

    He could have come in for a quick fix or longer minutes to help defend against some of the better guards.

  21. Agree with rgg @20. Every theme I have expounded on this season came home to roost in this game.

    The Andrew Bogut Myth is killing the Warriors. Killing them on defense and killing them on offense.

    I’m not sure I have ever seen a playoff team sabotage themselves in quite this way. Anyone else remember anything like it? It’s really quite remarkable.

    No recap. I’m invoking the mercy rule.

    • What is depressing is that exactly what I expected to happen happened, as I’m sure is the case with you.

  22. I need something to wash my blues away. Same song by Count Basie (the Lester Young solo at 2:30 is great). “Floy floy” has an interesting meaning. . . .

  23. TheTruthHurts

    Feltbot: What is wrong with Bucks?? 32-32 and the 8th seed. On course to get knocked out by Miami in round 1. But they are built the way the that the Warriors should be built according to Feltbot.

    • FeltbotsFakeGirlfriend

      Andrew Bogut one point! And held the offensive
      minded Bulls to only a 113 points! I like the
      new defensive minded Warriors!

      Andris Biedrins complete airball on a free throw!

      But the Black Falcon outrebounded Clay, there you go!

      All with those beautiful new uniforms, Kirk picked them out himself!

      But wait, Nate the Great 20 points! Oh yes, he’s on the Bulls.

      Damn, that doesn’t my narrative. WTG Feltbot.

      • FeltbotsFakeGirlfriend

        My strategy will be to attack the Milwaukee Bucks. I know Feltbot likes Monta Ellis and is postive their team. You see, I need to distract readers from the massive Andrew Bogut fail.

        Otherwise the Warriors might not resign him after next years. The first two years have been absysmal. I guess he was right about Andrew. Got to attack and distract from this mistake by the Warriors.

  24. The team lost because Bogut played 17 minutes? Please… You can complain better than this! Lol!

    So much perimeter shooting – as Barkley always states. Few Warriors took the ball to the rim… 0 shot blocks from the Bulls and Noah.

    The W’s have a 50% chance of executing a fast break properly… They’d rather settle for a perimeter jumper… And avoid contact.

    Maybe Belinelli should have been taken to the rim all game long. Barnes and Thompson should have had field days.

    Jarrett Jack’s game is pretty predictable.

    I think I’m going to go throw up now…

    • their aversion to the open court, up tempo game doesn’t come from being contact-shy ; the object is to get to the rim when there’s no defender home. the coach never really embraced using it, preferred staying conservative and predictable, which is probably compatible with his owner’s preferences. if the guards aren’t minding the defensive boards they’re insecure that two of the other three defenders can control the opponents’ misses (up tempo was the scapegoat essentially for the past weaknesses on d and defensive boards), and jack is not equipped for fast. not re-signing robinson and relying on jenkins as the third guard was another signal that they didn’t care for fast unless rush was on the court.

    • Petey:

      Bogut’s 17 minutes were enough to put them in a hole out of which they could not climb. In his first 8 minute stint, he was -7. Then the Warriors caught up when he went out and made the game close, then his second stint, 6:30, he was -12, leaving the team down 10 at the half. In the first 3 minutes of the second half, he was -6. The team was down 16 and could not recover from there against a motivated physical team who had built a lead and confidence.

      They could not score with Bogut in the lineup and critical moments were wasted. By trying to make Bogut an integral part of the offense during the first half, the rest of the players and other strategies weren’t established for the rest of the night. I absolutely blame Bogut.

      Game flow here:


      I’m not enjoying this, btw. If the numbers turn around and Bogut proves himself, I will gladly eat this bird:


      But in the meantime, we have every reason to believe we will see this game repeated against the better teams the next few weeks.

      • @Moto – Loved last years W’s 2nd team with Nate, Rush, Jefferson, McGuire, and Udoh. Nate’s physicality is missed.

        @rgg – Bogut was horrible.

        • Lacob calls himself a gambler. He’s not. If he wants to gamble, he should watch his stack and make intelligent bets. Nate was a cheap bet he could have easily absorbed with 20-1 pot odds.

          Bogut simply is not the right player for this team. No big limited center is. I’m not sure how much more Bogut can do at this stage of his career or how much more we’ll see, but with a bit more stamina and mobility—and at the right price—he could have been a useful complement to this or any team, used sparingly, at the right time, in the right plan.

  25. Black Falcon

    Barnes out rebounded and outscored Klay last night. Love his attack of the basket.

  26. Attention spammers:

    I have identified three appropriators of the FFG handle. Please stop. Pick your own handle if you wish to post here.

    Henceforth, any poster who appropriates the handle will be permanently blocked. (The original FFG will still be allowed to post. I assume you know who you are.)

    Posting under completely different handles in the same thread will also not be allowed, unless you have an avatar that identifies you. It is a reasonable assumption that such posters are not here for discussion purposes. Henceforth, they will be blocked as well.

    Black Falcon @26/ FFG @24, this means you.

  27. Compare last night’s game with this one, a win against a full, healthy Bulls squad:


    Lee/Curry/Ellis/Wright plus our marginal centers Brown and Biedrins (who played more than Bogut). They were able to spread the floor and run and get scoring from four starters easily. They came out scoring, built an 8 point lead after 1st. quarter and extended it to 16 at the end of the half. The Bulls were forced to do the thing they find difficult, score, and couldn’t catch up.

    I don’t recall anyone complaining about Lee’s defense that game, btw (as I see is happening elsewhere—it’s just amazing).

    Many envy Chicago’s team, its makeup and style of play, including, I fear, the owner. I suppose not without cause. But the only way for the Warriors to have a comparable team is to completely dismantle the current roster. I’m not sure they could even keep Curry. And Bogut would be no help whatsoever.

  28. Very good interview of Mark Jackson by TK, from before the Bulls game:


    Topics: DLee’s defense, why Landry hasn’t been playing (he can’t guard stretch fours, and he really can’t guard threes), why Jack is preferable to Barnes in crunch-time, and whether Barnes might see time at stretch four.

    • Great piece.

      I think Jackson is much smarter than we realize. Also I’m putting up with his motivational spiels at the end of games because it covers what he cannot say—his roster has problems. And I’m not at all convinced he has freedom to do what he thinks best.

      I’m going to stick with Jackson because:
      1. He has proved himself in many games (sans Bogut).
      2. I hate to think who Lacob might put in his place.

  29. It might be useful to have some kind of graphic display of Bogut’s percentage each game. It could be constructed like a thermometer.

    A small drop off in percentage, however, can make a big difference. A fastball pitcher who loses 5-10% of his velocity can and will get shelled. Against faster teams, a player who loses the same percentage of mobility will be ineffective.

    But really, we’ve seen all we need to see about what Bogut is capable of, certainly for this season.

  30. Just because the game was disheartening is no reason not to comment on the game.

    Warriors played three tall centers- Bogut, Ezeli, and Biedrins, thru first three quarters last night and gave up 28 points in each of those quarters. No interior defense playing big. Playing big and allowing opponents to shoot 51% is simply not acceptable. All those uncontested Chicago dunks by unguarded players in the half court game really hurt.

    Going small in fourth quarter, albeit against Chicago’s bench, the Warriors going with it’s own bench, scored over 30 points and gave up only 19. Jackson should take notice after the game of what is working and what is not, especially since he had no clue during the game. And if he does not change who plays with each other, the Warriors are not likely to make the playoffs.

    Odds and Ends:

    1. Sometimes when when Bogut is close to the basket, and shoots he sometimes rather than shoot the ball over the top, instead, turns his left wrist to the side as if he is throwing a curve ball. He did this on the one shot attempt he took last night. It hit the backboard and clicked off the rim to the right.

    2. Why when D.Lee and Landry are hot and others aren’t, that they don’t get the ball more to shoot?

    3, Why are both D.Lee and Landry not on the court more together? That’s right they can’t defend the perimeter. Bad reason for not playing them together.

    4. It’s amazing the Warrior have Jefferson for another year and they let him rot all year on the bench.Thus, diminishing his skills. Nevertheless, he was good last night on both sides of the ball.

    5.Thompson, the Warriors alleged future was 3-9, no OR’s, and 1 steal, following a dismal performance the game before. His only consistent inside shot is his reverse lay-up. Harkless last night 5-9 from the field, 1 OR, and 6 steals.

  31. There’s really a lot of Bogut hate going on here that is pretty unfounded. I’m all for constructive criticism, but the sheer amount of abuse being laid on this guy is pretty overwhelming and I’d say the detractors are saddling him with an unrealistic (and, thus, unfair) amount of responsibility. Let’s take a look at his game:

    Firstly, offensively:

    Anyone with League Pass will tell you that Andrew Bogut was not acquired to be an offensive presence. He is, at best, a 6-out-of-10 level talent on the offensive side. Milwaukee fans’ biggest issue with him (besides, of course, the injury bug) was the lack of offensive development Bogut displayed in his first 5 seasons – which was curious, given his knack for scoring (career 52% FGs) and nifty footwork coupled with surprising big man handles. Comparatively, this is a similar gripe that Chicago and Charlotte fans held against Tyson Chandler until New Orleans and Dallas showed the world that TC can be an absolute monster on the defensive side of the floor. Bogut is a similar case: he’s not going to be much help as a low-post option or a pick-and-pop shooter, definitely isn’t there to fill the lanes or run-and-gun. His 8-12 points a game will be almost entirely comprised of put-backs and drop passes from slashers. This shouldn’t be a surprise, as Bogut was on drastically less talented teams in Milwaukee – where he got plenty of more looks – and still arrived in Golden State as a career 13 PPG player. Those of you griping that Bogut isn’t a low-post scorer are asking him to be something that he’s not. You’re throwing out the baby with the bathwater; similar to those critics that knock Lee as a bad player because he has poor traditional defensive numbers. Lee isn’t in the game to defend, he’s in there to rebound and score. Bogut, likewise, is not getting minutes in the hopes that he’ll provide 16 points from low-block scoring.

    Where Bogut differs from Chandler (and virtually every other NBA center) is in his court vision; he’s a tremendously intelligent player for a 7-footer. In fact, in my experience, only Brad Miller and Vlade Divac have displayed better tools as a high-post distributor (as a 26-year old, I missed the Russell era). As of today, Bogut leads all NBA centers in assist-to-turnover ratio (2.39). Boris Diaw, who is practically a point-guard in a big man’s body, ranks 2nd with 2.19, Marc Gasol is next with 2.02, and no other center in the NBA (qualified or not) dishes out more than 2 dimes per turnover. In relative terms, Bogut’s assist-to-turnover ratio is higher than anyone on the Warriors NOT named Jarrett Jack (higher than Curry, higher than Thompson, higher than Lee). This speaks volumes to his ability to make the right pass and value possessions. The question should not be how many points does Bogut score, but rather; how much better do his teammates play when Bogut is on the floor? One need only rewatch the Detroit game detailed in the OP to find out.

    The other factor that Bogut brings when he’s in the game are his flat-lining screens. Unlike the perennially foul prone Andris Biedrins (who, strangely, has gotten a pass due to some mysterious, unverified ailment asserted by the author of this blog), Andrew Bogut’s screens are masterfully executed and work wonders for our perimeter shooters. Bogut does not throw his hip in an obvious fashion and gawk when called for an offensive foul – like Biedrins – he gets set at a moments’ notice, carefully pivots to waylay the on-ball defender, and uses his tremendous frame (read: rear end) to free up Stephen Curry and Klay Thompson in a time where defenses are blitzing them to run them off the line.

    And not only does Bogut help ball-handlers and facilitate when called upon; is it any wonder why David Lee has been so much more effective when Bogut is in the lineup? Lee’s rebounding, FG%, assists, and scoring numbers have all increased when Bogut is on the floor – ask John Hollinger. Whereas the last season few seasons, teams had the freedom to put their best big defender on Lee and leave Biedrins/Kwame Brown wide open without reserve, Bogut’s ogre frame ensures that Lee is almost always matched up against the opposing power forward; who typically, is not as defensively sound. Last night is a pretty poor example to us, given the result, but it is accurate: David Lee, against Boozer: shoots 58%, grabs 8 rebounds in 24 minutes. Two years ago? The Bulls put Noah on him – a far superior defender – and Lee left the game shooting 33% with 4 rebounds in 30 minutes. Coincidence?

    Defensively, Bogut needs to affirmation from me. He is an elite rim-protector by virtually any manner of evaluation. He’s one of the smartest charge-takers in the league (and he’s 7-feet tall). He ranks top 10 in all block categories that matter (per minute, per 48, per foul, etc). The list of emasculated centers that Bogut has shut down is virtually a nightly occurance: DeMarcus Counsins? 2-for-10. Greg Monroe? 4-for-16. Marcin Gortat? 3-of-8. Elton Brand? 2-of-7. Omer Asik? 3-of-7. Jonas Valanciunas? 1-of-7. These are all big men that average near or above 50% shooting, mind you. I mean, for Chrissakes, he was the absolute catalyst to New York’s historically poor shooting night 5 days ago – where they managed only 27% overall-shooting, including 2-for-7 from the Chandler/Thomas/KMart center tandem, while Bogut led the Warriors to the tune of a +35 on the floor effect – and there’s virtually zero credit given to him??

    In my opinion, the “Andrew Bogut Myth” is the myth that this guy is supposed to shut down the paint, play 1-on-3 with the penetrators allowed by Curry/Thompson/Barnes, deter the shot at point-blank range, AND collect the rebound after causing the miss… all the while, providing 16 points in a run-and-gun Nellieball system. What’s the real myth here?

    Did I miss something? Are the Warriors not on pace for a near-50-win season as the 6th seed in the Western Conference?

    Why so negative towards Bogut? Towards Mark Jackson? Towards Harrison Barnes?

    And yet, why is there zero mention of Stephen Curry, Klay Thompson, and Jarrett Jack allowing huge scoring nights to opposing guards on a nightly basis? Is this bizarro-world or something? This is like a horrific acid-flashback to the Nellieball days where tiny shot-chuckers could do no wrong (despite shooting a combined 5-for-21, ala last night) and the big, defensive players were put in the doghouse because they couldn’t hit a 19-foot bail-out jumper after the guards had dribbled away the majority of the shot-clock.

    Take a deep breath, Warriors fans.

    Life is good. The Dubs are on pace to enter the playoffs as a 6th seed, something they haven’t done since 1994.

    There’s no need to hate on the players or coaches responsible for this renaissance of Bay Area basketball success.

  32. Felty: The original FFG should also be banned as FFG never disclosed that others were using the same moniker.

  33. Pre-game jitters:


    This is the flow chart of the last Houston game. Note Bogut’s stint the last 8 minutes of the first half plus his 6:30 from the start of the 2nd half, where he is -10 total. He was -2 in his brief stint later. And look at the graph between the two tables to see this graphically, how the score rises and falls. Do note Lee sat out the second quarter—with foul trouble? But also look at Ezeli’s stints and watch the graph. He was +10 while in, and Lee was out almost all that time as well.

    The other players had negative numbers during Bogut’s stints, of course, and it may not seem fair to single him out. But he is playing this time with the starters, not the subs, whose scoring is indispensable, where he should be adding to their strengths. Instead he is dictating the pace of the offense and affecting the ability of the others to score, as has been argued here repeatedly. Nor does it look like he’s making any positive contribution to defense.

    Ezeli isn’t scoring either. But this has to be the justification for Bogut, given his size, his slowness, the offenses he dictates, that he makes up for the latter with scoring. He isn’t.

    These charts are fascinating studies.

  34. Unfortunately, anticipating another blowout tonight. Would frankly be amazed if it were averted.

  35. Bogut sits with 3 mins left in the first. Warriors lead, 15-8. Bogut with 1 block, 3 shots changed inside.

    Of course, the second he sits, Harden drives it straight in and gets to the line. Coincidence?

  36. Bogut returns to start the 2nd, score is 18-13, Warriors. By halftime, it’s a 23 point lead, headlined by a game-high 8 rebounds and 3 blocks from “The Myth!” What a half!

  37. Bogut departs with 5:30 left in the 3rd, 12 point lead. Returns with 8 minutes left in the 4th, lead at 11. Let’s see how badly “the myth” destroys the rhythm of the Warriors…

    Thus far (6:07 left in the game), he’s helped push the lead back to 16!

    • And did you see that layup he made first half! He must have over two feet away from the basket! And, even though no one was guarding him, he was able to put the ball on the glass and bank it in!

  38. And, with the writing on the wall, Bogut departs from the game with the Warriors leading by 23. The big guy’s closing line: 12 points, 12 boards, 3 blocks, 4-of-4 from the line, 50% from the field, team leading +30.

    What a win!

  39. OK, the announcers almost made me throw up, most notably, not surprisingly Fitz. What a great defensive game! they (he) kept saying. Are they paid extra? Is their job on the line? It’s like they’re reading from a script. (Barnett, btw, was rather quiet.)


    Houston played a miserable game and shot horribly. (Are Harden and Lin wearing out? Has the trade hurt them? And I question holding both back the first half.)

    One key factor was the refereeing, which was sane. Houston shot 35, 25, and 34 free throws the first three games, but only 16 tonight. That made a huge difference both in keeping Houston’s score down and the Warrior defense aggressive.

    But Fitz’s calls of Bogut play brought the bile to the mouth. “Bogut gets a tip!” “Bogut with the rebound!” It was nonstop. My favorite call was with about 5 minutes to go. Bogut fumbles a rebound (not the first) and it goes off Houston. “Bogut knocks the ball off a Houston player!”

    This was a pedestrian game (better than miserable) by Bogut. They win by the same margin with Ezeli, who was much more mobile on both ends. If the ball came to Bogut, he rebounded it. Otherwise no. He still wasn’t that mobile, and if Houston didn’t score on him it’s because they went straight at him. I can’t believe Houston couldn’t have moved the ball more or Harden or Lin, driving, couldn’t have gotten him in foul trouble. Azik easily made a move around him.

    OK, Ezeli probably would have fumbled the Curry pass Bogut dunked and he doesn’t go 4/4 at the free throw line come garbage time.

    But the real key is 2nd. half, when Houston started hitting and pressuring Curry and made a run, Bogut made no difference at all. This is when you look for the dominant center to help out with scoring to break the defense and keep even, and he offers nothing there. This is not a transcendent center. And we’ll see this situation again soon.

    Superlative game by Curry and Thompson, of course, and any win is good.

    “How about the dunks?”—Bucher is talking post game now. Shessh. How about Ezeli’s put back? That was athletic.

  40. And here is the game flow:


    First half, Houston couldn’t shoot, the Warriors started hitting and built a lead. It’s as simple as that. But the first six minutes of the second half, with the starters in, Houston started driving and hitting and put pressure on Curry and the lead dwindled to 6 or 7. Bogut and Barnes were -11. Of course the other starters were -11 as well, but the point is that neither B or B helped out on offense, but rather dragged it, thus making scoring harder for the main three. Nor did they do much defensively. The scoring doesn’t pick up again until B&B go out and Jack, Landry, and Ezeli come in and rebuild the lead.

    This is the situation they’ll face many times the next few weeks and the playoffs, if they make it.

  41. Two straight wins by the Lakers without Kobe, including Indiana. This might be one of the more interesting stories in the NBA. They have capable guards and scorers in Blake and Nash, of course, and are getting balanced scoring down the roster.

  42. Some of you guys really go to great lengths to dog a Warriors’ player you don’t like. Be it Bogut. Be it Barnes. Bogut’s D was spectacular today, and his O was just fine, too. But go ahead and make something up to fit your preconceptions. But your creativity is going to be tested because Bogut is getting into shape and getting integrated into the flow of the game. Try enjoying it!

    • Our Team,
      So true, wise one! Borderline love/hate here… However, our good man Adam’s blog – it’s the same, but different.

      I initially came to read Feltbot as a refuge from all the venom spewed towards one of my all-time favorite coaches, Don Nelson on Adam’s blog.

      However, the bloggers here have a bias against other things – say big, slow injured centers. LOL!

      Me? As long as everyone is respectful, I enjoy the banter/noise of both blogs!

  43. rgg, Bogut and Barnes didn’t drag down the offense in the third quarter. The offense moved fluidly with them in the game in the first half and then with Bogut in in Q4. Obviously, the coaches stupidly told Curry and the others to slow the game down and milk the clock to start the second half (with the big lead). That was almost a fatal (rookie) mistake by the coaches. Bogut and Barnes had nothing to do with the tempo slowdown. Ha!