Bogut Check: Jazz 97 Warriors 90

It’s been difficult to recap Warriors games recently. Not just because I was out of town, but because we’ve entered the silly season. That time of year when many bad teams have simply given up, and many good teams are resting their stars, and fantasy league owners are asking themselves questions like, “Should I start Lebron James?” Most of the games the Warriors are playing right now, and will be playing up until the playoffs, are meaningful only to themselves.

This was not such a game. I’ve had this one marked on my calendar as a game that could serve as a benchmark of the Warriors’ progress, because both teams needed it, and both teams wanted it. And, in what has been an extreme rarity in Warriors’ opponents this season, Utah was at close to full strength.

I was not encouraged by the result. And in particular by the state of Andrew Bogut’s game, and what is has wrought on this Warriors team.

The Andrew Bogut Myth: Let’s start at the end and work back. Andrew Bogut — the player that Joe Lacob gave away Monta Ellis and Ekpe Udoh for, and swallowed the poison pill of 2 years at $10 million of Richard Jefferson for as well — the player for whom Joe Lacob tanked an NBA season — the transcendent all-NBA defensive player who was going to single-handedly “change the culture” of the Warriors — Andrew Bogut was benched for defensive reasons in the fourth quarter. Replaced by Draymond Green, a 6-7″ rookie forward.

Here’s what Jim Barnett had to say about the move: “[Green] is back in so he can cover more territory.”

Here’s how Mark Jackson explained the move post-game:

They were hurting us with pick and rolls. Our best big defender [Green] was on the floor as far as defending pick and roll. Able to either switch or get the ball out of the point guards hands, and get back to his [man]. So, just trying to give us a chance to get stops.

“Give us a chance to get stops.” That’s kind of harsh, isn’t it? Like the Warriors don’t have a chance to get stops with all-NBA defensive center Andrew Bogut on the floor?

That’s exactly right. They don’t.

Because all-NBA defensive center Andrew Bogut doesn’t exist anymore. He is a myth, conjured up by the inexperienced mind of the amateur GM of the Warriors, Joe Lacob, and propagated by the Warriors PR department (which comprises everyone else on the Warriors payroll, and most if not all of the writers in the Warriors media).

There has been ample evidence of this in virtually every game Bogut has played this season. But if you need more evidence — if you want to understand in 10 short seconds exactly what I have been saying all season long, and what Mark Jackson phrased in very stark terms after this game — then take another look at the defensive sequence at 4:20 4th Q:

Al Jefferson leaves the lane to set a high pick. Andrew Bogut refuses to follow him. He can’t follow him, because when he does, he’s absolutely helpless: too slow to hedge on the point guard, too slow to recover to his man at the basket. So Andrew Bogut stays in the lane, and Stephen Curry leaves Gordon Hayward alone on the wing to go help cover Mo Williams on the pick and roll.

But now Bogut sees that he must leave the lane anyway to guard the open Gordon Hayward at the three point line. Which he does. And now the Jazz simply destroy him with perfect execution: Williams zips an entry to Paul Millsap in the lane, Bogut collapses to help deal with this interior threat, Millsap immediately passes back out to Hayward, and bam, wide-open three in Bogut’s face.

Have you ever seen a team attempt to guard pick and roll that way? It was one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever seen. But that’s the conundrum the Warriors face with Bogut on the court. He cannot guard pick and roll — at all.

He can’t guard much else either, as Al Jefferson has delighted in proving this season. Jefferson beat him inside and out. Shot 15 footers over him, and destroyed him in the post. The Warriors actually sent help when Jefferson had Bogut in the post! 

Just think about that second. If the Warriors are forced to send help when Bogut is guarding the likes of Al Jefferson, then what possible reason can there be to ever play Bogut at all? In past years, the intermittently healthy Andris Biedrins destroyed Al Jefferson without help. And in this season, the raw rookie Festus Ezeli has also done a very fine job containing Jefferson mano a mano.

The Jazz guards, particularly Mo Williams and Gordon Hayward, made mincemeat of Bogut as well. As soon as he was drawn even slightly out of position, they went right around him, and through him. Bogut is simply not mobile enough anymore to guard the lane against any team that knows how to move the ball.

Andrew Bogut the all-NBA defender is a myth. Like the grandpa in that AT&T U-Verse commercial, I been trying to tell you.

And now Mark Jackson just told you too.

The Bogut Myth on Offense: The verdict is in on offense as well. When Bogut is on the floor, the Warriors will be playing 4 on 5.

No low post game. The Warriors went twice to Bogut in the post against the 6-10″ Jefferson, both resulting in left-handed flip shots. One bounced in, one was blocked. Bogut’s ability in the low post is a myth. What there was of it — and it was never good — disappeared the day he shattered his right elbow, and it ain’t ever coming back. Ever.

No outside shot. Do you remember Gary St. Jean telling you pre-season that he expected Bogut to hit the 15 foot shot from the high post? Do you ever see Bogut even take that wide-open 15 foot shot? No, you don’t, and you won’t. Because his ability to make that shot is a myth. It too disappeared the day he shattered his right elbow, and it too ain’t ever coming back.

Bogut will never again have full extension in that elbow. And he will never again trust it enough to rely on it. In his own words, “sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn’t.”

Which is better than his ankle.

Not only is Bogut an offensive liability in the half court, but he is killing the Warriors tempo. Forcing them into half-court sets more often. Forcing them to wait to start their offense while he drags his ass up court.

Do you remember Festus Ezeli running the floor? Do you remember how that opened up Curry and Thompson for early offense threes? Gone.

Do you remember Ezeli’s drag screens in the lane, opening the way for early offense layups? Gone.

Do you remember Lee’s early offense pick and roll? Gone.

Is this really what you want when you possess three of the best open court players in the league, in Curry, Lee and Thompson?

Bogut’s crippling effect on the Warriors offense has been felt all too frequently this season. How many horrible first quarter starts have the Warriors suffered through lately? This game was simply the last in a string. When Bogut was taken out at 5:00 1Q, the score was 15-11 Utah.

How many times have we seen Curry, Lee and Thompson rushed back onto the court in the second quarter to make up deficits? How many times have we seen them forced to play 44 minutes?

How many 4th quarter offensive collapses with Bogut on the court have we witnessed?

Last night, the Warriors put up 90 points on their “home ground.” How many games in the playoffs is that pace going to win?

“The Warriors have enough scorers. What they need are defensive players.” How many times have you heard that mantra repeated in the last three years?

It’s a myth. Another myth. One that’s been given the lie every single time Joe Lacob has attempted to jam one of his patented one-way acquisitions — like Lou Amundson, Kwame Brown, Dominic McGuire, and now Andrew Bogut — into the Warriors lineup.

4 on 5 in the half-court doesn’t work in today’s NBA. One-way players don’t work.

The Andrew Bogut Myth, by the Record: Sick of my yapping about Bogut? God knows I’ve grown sick of repeating myself.

Here’s something new to look at. Something simple.

  • Warriors record: 44-33.
  • Warriors record without Andrew Bogut: 27-21.
  • Warriors record with Bogut: 17-12.
  • Number of home games Bogut has played vs. number of away: 19-10.
  • Warriors record playing against teams above .500, without Bogut: 14-16. [Including wins against the Heat, Spurs, Thunder, Clippers (twice), Celtics, Pacers, Nuggets, Nets and Hawks.]
  • Warriors record playing against teams above .500, with Bogut: 3-10. [Those three wins: 1) Home against the Knicks without Amare, and Melo barely competing on one leg; 2) On the road against Houston, post their blow-up trade, and with Harden (as has since been revealed) hobbled by a bad foot; and 3) Home against the Lakers, with Kobe hobbled, and Metta blowing out his knee in the first half.]

Now make the case to me that Andrew Bogut is helping the Warriors.

Go ahead.

Stephen Curry: It is absolutely extraordinary, a testament to his Hall of Fame abilities, that Curry is challenging the single season three point record, while playing half of the season in the wrong system for his talents.

The degree of difficulty of the three point looks he is getting — creating for himself would be more accurate — in the Warriors half-court sets is off the charts. That he’s actually making them sometimes beggars belief.

It got a lot tougher for him last night when the Jazz switched the bigger Randy Foye onto him. Which is simply the merest taste of what lies in wait for him. Curry is going to be guarded in the playoffs by either Danny Green, Thabo Sefolosha, Andre Iguodala, or Tony Allen. And blitzed with regularity.

There’s only one cure for that: Nellieball. 5 on 5 basketball and a fast tempo.

David Lee: I truly despise being forced to watch Lee taken out of what he does best by the presence of Bogut on the floor. Running opposing centers off the floor. Pick and roll. Directing a spread floor from the high post.

It is a testament to his abilities — and selfless team play — that he finds a way to contribute in every game, despite being in the wrong system.

There was a great under the basket replay of one of Lee’s few pick and rolls in this game, at 10:08 4th Q. Lee of course beats Favors handily and charges down the lane. Only to be met at the rim by Al Jefferson, who was camped in the lane guarding Carl Landry. Lee beat Jefferson this time, for the And One. But this poor spacing is the primary reason why Lee gets his shot blocked.

Ever wonder what that Curry and Lee pick and roll would look like with a spread four like Ryan Anderson or Jeff Green or Patrick Patterson on the court, instead of either Bogut or Landry?

You can keep wondering, because so long as Joe Lacob is the Warriors GM, you’re never going to see it. Three years of David Lee’s prime wasted.

And counting.

Klay Thompson: In Klay’s second year, he and Curry have become the leading three point shooting backcourt in NBA history. With the highest percentage it’s ever been done. There is greatness here.

We have had the privilege of watching an All-Star talent unveil itself this season. And it’s still unveiling rapidly, as I predicted it would, with each passing game. Last night, Klay was given the task in the 3rd Q of posting up the smaller Mo Williams, to punish Utah’s backcourt switch. And punish it he did, with a stunning variety of moves, accomplished with extraordinarily sophisticated footwork.

He also got himself to the line twice with shot fakes, which is something this extraordinary shooter is going to be able to do with regularity going forward.

And his drives. We haven’t heard too much complaining about his finishing ability lately have we? How about that clutch left-handed drive and finish over the long and tough DeMarre Carrol at 9:35 4Q, that got the Warriors within 4?

I got laughed at for this at the beginning of the season, but I’ll say it again: Klay Thompson is an offensive genius, and the only thing standing between him and the Hall of Fame is an injury-free career.

That, and Harrison Barnes at the three.

The Brand: I had to laugh at the graphic the Warriors broadcasters trotted out last game in support of Barnes’ rookie efforts. This is what they showed:

  • Games started: 1st
  • Minutes played: 3rd
  • Points: 5th
  • Rebounds: 11th
  • Dunks: T-4th

See anything funny about that list?

How about this: if Barnes is truly a productive player, shouldn’t his stats match or exceed the minutes he’s getting? I mean, if he’s getting the third-most minutes among rookies, should he be proud he’s only produced the fifth-most points? The eleventh-most rebounds? (I note that blocks were kept off the list altogether.)

Fitz and Barnett have been relentless in their promotion of Barnes lately. It’s obvious that they’ve been handed talking points. And I also completely understand that Barnett feels close to the Warriors youngsters. Takes them under his wing, provides informal coaching and encouragement, gets attached to them, and roots from the heart for their success. But the situation with Barnes is reaching the point of absurdity. At some point, objectivity must kick in. At some point, your credibility is at stake.

In the last three games, Barnes has matched up against Al-Farouq Aminu, PJ Tucker, and Gordon Hayward — hardly the class of the league — and been dominated by all three.

It was particularly irritating last night to hear Fitz and Barnett discuss Barnes’ defense. As if he ever played it. Did they see him loaf around that screen at 7:40 3rd Q and watch Mo Williams bury a three in his face? I know they must have seen his soft close out on Jamal Tinsley’s set-shot three at 11:05 4th Q, because it produced this inanity from Fitz:

“A year from now Harrison will sell out to run Tinsley off that 3 point line.”

Really? Are you sure about that, Bob? Because as far as I can tell, Mark Jackson is yanking Barnes for defensive and rebounding lapses every other game. As far as I can tell, Mark Jackson trusts the no-offense rookie Draymond Green in crunch time far more than he trusts Barnes.

As far as I can tell, defense is not part of Barnes’ brand.

Festus Ezeli: In his 2nd NBA game, Festus Ezeli held Al Jefferson to 2 pts. on 1-8 shooting, with three rebounds, in a Warriors win. In December, in Utah, Jefferson got 18 and 10 against Ezeli and Biedrins, with Ezeli getting only 14 minutes. Nevertheless, Ezeli was +15 for those limited minutes, and the Warriors won by 11. The rookie Ezeli is 2-0 in starts against the Jazz.

In February, Al Jefferson ate a rusty Bogut alive in Utah. Just as he ate a supposedly fit Bogut alive on this night. Bogut is 0-2 in starts against the Jazz.

Last night, Ezeli got 5 1/2 minutes in the first quarter, going against Jefferson and Derrick Favors. He was +7 in those minutes. And never saw the floor again.

Late in the second quarter, Bogut was mysteriously reinserted into the game to play against a small Utah lineup of Favors at five, Millsap at four. He got run off the floor, to the tune of -10 in four minutes.

Ballgame.

129 Responses to Bogut Check: Jazz 97 Warriors 90

  1. Feltbot is back in town! Great, great, great, and thanks for a dose of sanity. We’re not getting it anywhere else.

    (Composed this morning, before the post)

    The three series that most revealed the Warriors were the games against Utah, Chicago, and Utah. We have better records than those teams, better standing in the playoff chase, and in a few players, better individual talent. But all three are deep in size and athleticism, and what the series reveal is how thin the Warriors are in size, athleticism, and talent.

    Of the 9 games, we won 2 and lost 7. Bogut played in 6 of those games, and was involved in only one win, against Sacramento. They beat Utah without him.

    My point is not that Bogut is a bad center, though a case has been made that building the team around him is a mistake. And if what we’re seeing now is what we’ll get next year, he’s at best mediocre, best used only against other behemoths.

    Rather, he, or any average center, just doesn’t make that much of a difference. Our size problems lie elsewhere, and he’s not good enough to correct them. Better talent down the roster might have offset the size/ athleticism problems. And we certainly don’t want to give up the talents of Lee and Curry, and even Thompson. What is needed is to find a way to offset their weaknesses.

    The Warriors have had a very fine record this season. The main cause is the consistent all star quality play of Curry and Lee, nearly all the games. Thompson has had a very fine sophomore season. Jack and Landry, though limited, have helped give the team the depth it has lacked the previous years. We found at least fairly good stand-ins at center for a change—even give Biedrins some credit—but not much more. As for the rest of the players, there will be a debate where at best there isn’t enough evidence to make any meaningful conclusion.

    They have also played with unity and resolve all season long, and this counts. Give the coach credit. All told, they’ve made a more determined and more cohesive effort than many other teams.

    But if you look at the rosters of all NBA teams and measure overall potential, and assume that they play to this potential during the games that count, say the playoffs—not at all a certainty—you have to conclude the Warriors then are the 16th or 17th best team in the league. Let’s face it. Using this measure, you have to put them below Chicago, Utah—and even Sacramento and Milwaukee.

    The Warriors have overachieved, and let’s be proud of that. But it’s a hard act to keep up all season long, or maintain in the playoffs.

    We know who is responsible here.

    • I meant “three series against Utah, Chicago, and Sacramento,” par. 1.

      • (Correct this @1 and pull both these comments?)

        • Felty — thank’s for putting down your thoughts on paper. It is certainly a realistic look at Bogut’s play for the Warriors. I am fully in agreement about his elbow. It’s scary to me that he literally does not use the right hand (his primary hand) to shoot the basketball. It’s clear that he cannot be a viable NBA center simply based on the fact that he can’t use his right arm to shoot.

          I would like to see Festus playing the bulk of the minutes with Bogut on spot duty. I think he can be very effective against other defense-first players when the other team is going 5-on-4 against the Warriors. Then it will be a 4-on-4 battle :-)

  2. (Ezeli is 1-1 in starts against the Jazz?) And pull this.

  3. I like reading and commenting on your blog because you offer a strong, independent analysis, frequently with a uniquely innovative take. I sometimes disagree with your assessment but it is good, thoughtful analysis all the same. And I really, REALLY wish I could disagree with you on Bogut but you are right on the money. If Bogut can’t get it done against a player like Jefferson then what is the point? What a disappointment!

    I think in the midst of your (well-deserved) I-told-you-so’s you didn’t pay as much attention to another disappointment. What the heck is Coach Jackson doing? Huge minutes for his top two players, hardly any time for Ezeli, no timeouts during extended bad stretches. I’ve heard some rationalizations but I’m not buying.

    • Given all Feltbot said and the nature of this roster, Jackson really doesn’t have many options, except giving his players more breaks when he overplays them, as you note. I’m guessing Jackson decided to go all in last night and clinch the playoffs before the hometown crowd, with at least three losses coming up. He just doesn’t have the players to spell his three starters, though at the very least Curry should have gotten a two minute break first half.

      I suspect Jackson and the others are smarter than we give them credit for. I would be curious how they would define their player needs, if given the freedom to do so. But they don’t have it and can’t change the roster anyway.

      They had to push Bogut the last weeks, probably to satisfy Lacob, but they had to see what he had anyway. Hopefully they’ve seen enough to make intelligent coaching decisions the next few weeks and next season.

  4. Welcome back Feltbot! Great stuff!

    Take a look at Reggie Miller’s career stats… Reggie got to the line on average of 5 times+ per game. And finished his 2s at a decent %. 3 assists per game.

    Think Klay can’t hit those numbers? Klay’s almost already there in his second season!

    http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/552/reggie-miller

    Klay Thompson’s greatness will occur if he stays healthy AND gets to line twice as much as he does now. He’s averaging 2.4 free throws per game now. Klay needs to average 5+ trips to the line – where, like Curry, he’s a weapon of mass destruction!

    If Klay accomplishes getting to the line – he’ll obviously likely increase his scoring by 2+ points per game. He’s increasing his assists because he’s driving to the hoop more (instead of settling for perimeter jumpers) – and assisting/creating for others (more assists), earning easy buckets (higher FG %), keeping his defenders honest (preventing perimeter three shot from being challenged – higher 3 pt. %), and getting to the foul line more (more freebies) – where he’s absolutely lethal. Simple math: Zero foul shots per game and 87% free throw percentages = 0 points.

    Klay will improve his finishes at the rim – he’s too good not to do better here – as did Rush last season.

    Should Klay play the three, I want to see an athletic defensive stopper play the two. Hopefully Basemore can play in a backcourt of Stephen, Basemore, and Klay. Or Stephen, Rush, and Klay. Brandon Rush is a defensive force when healthy, can spread the floor with his three, and drive to the rim a little. I only hope Brandon can recover from his horrible injury.

    In Jerry West I trust. And Donnie Walsh. They were there behind Klay from the beginning and could see his greatness early.

    • PB- First time I’ve seen the Curry, Basemore, Klay starting back-court in print…I would love to see how that would work out next season. Basemore is still to raw to start for a playoff team, but as his basketball IQ develops, I hope he can become a consistent 4th option and a defensive stopper. How about this as the future:
      Curry, Basemore, Klay, Lee, Ezeli. Athletically slightly limited by Lee, Curry and Klay, but totally intriguing because of the basketball smarts and Ezeli’s ability to be a “Dwight Howard” of sorts in the middle (circa 2009).

      • @peteb24

        Of course, I do like Curry, Rush, and Klay most – and how they fit together. Curry and Klay – handling the ball/creating – and Rush, spreading the floor, occasionally driving the lane, and drawing the toughest defensive assignment.

        Curry, Basemore, Klay, Lee, and Ezeli? LOVE IT! I’m not smart enough to know if it’d work or not, but I like the idea of two athletic potential defensive stoppers in Basemore/Ezeli – mixed in with the talented, but less athleticaly-gifted Curry, Klay, and Lee offensively. Ezeli and Basemore would draw the tough defensive assignments – and hopefully good enough finishers to not kill the offense!

        Basemore – I really like what I’ve seen from him. Ezeli? The steal of the late first round of the draft. If he can improve his hands and finishing next season, I’ll be ecstatic!

  5. Thanks Felty for once again pointing out how Bogut lacks the mobility to defend inside. Regardless of whether he is playing hurt or not, that will not change this year, not change next year. Hat, with all due respect we simply disagree.

    Petey Brian, it should be first be noted that the Warriors did not have to keep Ellis. It was reported that the Warriors could have traded him to Orlando for Redick and/or R. Anderson. Would you not want R. Anderson over Barnes? Hopefully, you would answer that osed question “yes.”

    Contrary to your assertion, Udoh played great whether playing with the first or second team. He made D. Lee a much better player. He made so many more defensive plays that could Bogut could only dream about. He kept the opponents scoring down, and Ellis had a field day driving around his deadly picks for easy lay-ups. Udoh was a terrific offensive rebounder. He consistently gave the Warriors extra possessions that they cashed in, via OR’s, steals, and blocked shots, while Bogut is at best a break even possession guy.

    And the Warriors are now we are saddled with Jefferson’s salary who Jackson refuses to play, and other players, including Bogut, who apparently is still not healthy, and Biedrins contract, by Lacob refusing to eat his salaries for two years.

    All we have to show as the result of the trade is Ezeli,no big deal, A decent defensive player with no offensive game, whose defense does not approach that of Udoh. You probably think he’s superior.

    And drafting Barnes when we could have drafted Harkless or Drummond, is further evidence of the mistakes the Warriors have made under the Lacob regime. He has not consistent shot, and can’t defend. He’s also a is a negative possession guy, just like Thompson, as he gets few OR’s, few steals, few blocked shots, and turns the ball over way to much. You can’t have that with a SF or a SG. Starters must have given there teams positive possessions, otherwise, unless they shoot the lights out each night, they are just run of the mill players.

    It’s ridiculous to praise Thompson, when he does not make many steals, does not garner offensive rebounds, does not block shots, and has a high number of turnovers. He costs the team shooting opportunities, not enhance their scoring opportunities. This is what a SF has to do to be considered an all star. He will never in my judgment be a positive possession guy. His only claim is that he is a good shooter, except for the fact that this season his FG% shooting 2′s is not very good, and he rarely gets to the foul line. To claim he’s a good player when it’s difficult for him to have 3 good games out of every 6 is simply laughable. He’s a streaky shooter, no more no less. Granted he shoots better at home than on the road, and often has terribly fourth quarters because he is being given time on the court that he should not be playing.He will never be as good as either Curry or D.Lee.

    So, if Barnes, Thompson, Bogut, and Ezeli, are the Warriors future, there is little likelihood in the Warriors making it to the western finals, without some other major moves, that the Warriors by having both Biedrins and Jefferson bloated contracts, have hampered themselves from accomplishing.

    • Better yet, Frank, imagine if we had the Nigerian duo, Ezeli and Udoh. Both are strong and quick. Ezeli is closer to center size, but they could spell each other. If Udoh picked up more offense, he would offer all kinds of possibilities. And their salaries would not choke up the roster for years to come. Denver, in fact, is experimenting with several centers.

      • @rgg – Ezeli/Udoh – nice! Little scoring, but we’d have a shot block party for sure!

        @Frank – The W’s didn’t do all that well last season. Weren’t even .500. Any talk of how awesome the Udoh/Lee frontcourt tandem was – the sample size of games was much too small to determine, although I was a fan of Udoh’s defense – I was pissed all the time for him not rebounding.

        The W’s are even winning more now with a hobbled, immobile, non-jumping, broken elbowed – Bogut – then they were last season with a non-rebounding, non-scoring Udoh AND ball movement killer Monta Ellis.

        Harrison Barnes still has great trade value as he’s on his rookie deal and he’s got unknown upside. If he’s not who Jerry West and the W’s braintrust wants – deal him for something good. I saw enough potential to say – I’m still on the fence with Barnes… I’m slow to throw him under the bus! LOL!

        I do like R. Anderson AND Reddick – nice pieces.

        Klay Thompson – is on track to be a poor man’s Reggie Miller. Soon. Klay just needs to get to the line by driving the lane/finishing more. Klay’s almost there. Don’t believe me? Compare their career averages…

        http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/552/reggie-miller

        http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/6475/klay-thompson

  6. warriorsablaze

    Whether or not Bogut can truly provide something for this team is going to be determined by Jackson’s ability to be the “flow coach” he claims to be and sometimes make difficult decisions. He is still going with the small lineup at the end of games, so that’s a good start. I’d like to see Bogut and Ezeli switch spots to start the game. Let’s put an end to our slow starts by running in the 1st quarter. Bogut can come in with Jack as a part of the second unit. Jack is pretty poor in transition, but OK in a slower set. Bogut is obviously the same in his current condition (which hopefully still has room for improvement). I suspect there is too much politics involved for that to happen. Bogut could be important against teams like Memphis or the LA teams… but he won’t matchup well against the Denvers and OKC’s of the league. If Jackson can’t be flexible with his matchups, Bogut is going to continue to sometimes help, sometimes hurt us.

    • Perhaps – Jackson’s just setting up our first round opponent for a big surprise! In the playoffs, Coach makes all the right adjustments and WE BELIEVE II! LOL!

  7. warriorsablaze

    Come on Felty, there’s enough validity in your Barnes critiques to resort to out of context stats. No, I actually don’t expect Barnes to have higher than the 5th most points at the 3rd highest minutes. Obviously, the rookies on crappy teams who are the 1st or 2nd option on their teams are going to get more points. How many rookies have started all year for a playoff team? Barnes is the 4th option in the starting lineup with two 20 ppg scorers… he’s not going to score points like Lillard, who is the 1st option (and 3 years older) on his team.

    I don’t see Barnes as a star, or even an all star really, but he had a nice rookie season and is very, very young. Probably was given too much of a role too quickly due to Rush going down, but he definitely showed flashes. I’m more worried about Klay’s inconsistencies. I like the marked improvement in defense (which I hope to see from Barnes next season), but didn’t quite reach the next level as an all around player as I had hoped.

    • W’s fans are hard on our young! People forget how bad James Harden was in first year or two… Even after year 3, LOTS of folks thought he wasn’t a max player (including me). Every year, he got a little bit better…

      Curry, Klay, Barnes, Ezeli, and hopefully (Basemore and Green) are great young talents that will incrementally improve in the next couple of years together. And of course – no draft pick next season, but Brandon Rush might be back.

      And Jefferson and Andris and possibly Bogut – $33 million or so? – their deals will come due after next year… Sure, some of that money will be needed to re-sign guys (like Klay/Rush/Landry/Jack etc). This cap space will be a HUGE opportunity to take another step up from just making the playoffs to being a serious contender…

  8. Do you think Stephen Curry is a max player right now? Do you think Klay Thompson will be a max player? Do you think David Lee is a max player right now?

  9. I’m no big fan of Bogut, but I did this.

    I looked at all the gameflow charts since he came back in March.

    In the 16 games since his return he is +64. The team as whole is +98. That includes 4 big ones and one big loss.

    The team as whole, based on the final score, is +98 during that stretch.

    In 6/16, Bogut’s +/- was better than the final score. In 8/16 he was worse and there were two ties.

    As usual, these numbers are open to interpretation. My hypothesis is that he is making a small positive difference. The fact that he’s worse than the team total more often than not doesn’t sound great, but that can happen for reasons which don’t necessarily mean he played poorly. The fact his total +/- is about two thirds of the team’s (for this period) in relatively limited minutes, means that the team is, overall gaining ground faster when he’s on the floor.

    The games in which there was the biggest discrepancy were Portland (biggest number), and Lakers (only game where he was negative but the team won).

    • You have to look at strength of schedule, as Feltbot has done above, Rick, and match-ups. The team would have done as well or probably better with Ezeli against Portland, because size wasn’t an issue and he matches up better against Aldridge or Hickson. Or Landry, and then they get his scoring and beat them even worse. They could have had any number of lineups against Portland. The Lakers have so many problems with depth and age and injuries it didn’t matter that much what Howard did, and he is off this year anyway, supposedly the one transcendent center in NBA for whom many teams were prepared to gut their rosters to acquire. Look at lineups the other games, etc. But Bogut adds little or nothing, or probably subtracts, against the physical teams against whom the Warriors have struggled.

      There’s another way to look at the Bogut trade. Nothing short of the mythical transcendent center, and there aren’t any now, would help the Warriors against the depth and talent of the tops teams. Bogut at his best, who there I suspect is vastly overrated, is not going to help at all against Miami, OKC, and so on. By committing so much of the Warriors’ resources into a single trade, Lacob has consigned them into mediocrity.

      • RE: Trade – No Bogut, no Ezeli/Barnes/Jefferson too.

        • Well, that’s good news, no? They couldn’t have bought a low first round pick or traded for it? They couldn’t have done something with the tens of millions saved?

          • The W’s DID buy a low first round pick from the Spurs! Lol!

            It cost the W’s $11 million which is the value of Richard Jefferson’s last year on his deal LESS Richard Jefferson’s UFA value (what would he be worth as an unrestricted free agent? $4 million/year? ASSume with me here. Lol!)

            In essence, the W’s paid $7 million ($11M-$4M) for the right to the last pick in last year’s draft which happened to net us Festus Ezeli.

            And the Tank season (which NO WAY could have been done with Udoh/Ellis – they would have kept us out of low lottery) netted the W’s (with BIG LUCK) lucky #7 which happened to net us Harrison Barnes.

            If Harrison Barnes isn’t a good player or not a fit here (I’m on fence!) – He’s still a tradeable asset because he’s young, has potential, and on a rookie deal. I think the W’s can get something good for Harrison. I also think he might be a good player someday (he’s already a decent rookie).

  10. There’s another way to look at Udoh, and this is only a lowest common denominator assessment. Udoh, who’s making $3.5m this year, who is strong and healthy, who is stronger and faster than Beans and has more offensive potential and doesn’t whiff at the free throw line (73% FT career), who hasn’t spend much time at all on the bench with injuries, would at the very least have provided sufficient reason to amnesty Biedrins as a backup center and saved the team a ton of money to use elsewhere.

    Let’s dispel the myth that Lacob wants to spend money on the team. I suspect the main reason he didn’t amnesty Biedrins is because he didn’t want to pay the tax. Riley implied as much.

    • Correction: not not pay the tax. He didn’t want or didn’t have the $18m plus to take Biedrins off the books and not get anything in return. He would have saved tax by doing so.

      • I’m also certain Lacob didn’t want to ask new ownership for $18 million to amnesty Andris Biedrins.

        Especially when the team DIDN’T even have a replacement center already on the roster.

        I really like Udoh as a PF/C back-up – but no way the W’s are 4th in rebounding with Udoh/Biedrins/Lee/Tyler – combo at center.

        I’ll take Bogut/Ezeli/Lee/Biedrins – combo at center first.

        Now W’s are 4th in rebounding and 3rd in least fouls committed. From probably last in both categories the last few seasons.

  11. This game review states that the W’s grabbed the 4th most rebounds, committed the 3rd least fouls, and shot a league best 40.1% from three…

    My recent memory (which is fading) of the W’s usually had them committing the most fouls in the NBA and had the worst rebounding team in the league.

    http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/scouting-report-wolves-warriors-0

    • Thanks, PB.

      These stats surprise me, especially fouls, because it still seems like we foul all the time, but I’m traumatized here. And this is an improvement, because it means other teams are spending less time at the FT line. Even if they loosened up on defense to accomplish this, it is an overall gain. I suspect, however, they are defending wiser.

      Rebounding surprises as well. I suspect it comes from a team effort, not from dominant front court play, obviously, though Lee’s numbers are excellent. Rebounds were a mandate from above and the team has worked to improve this stat—but I wonder at what cost. For one thing, guard rebounding reduces transition play.

      But note Chicago, still a great defensive team, is 9th, and Memphis is 12th. And look who is at the bottom: Miami. Maybe rebounding is not a team’s top priority, when everything else is factored in.

      • @rgg – Perhaps the W’s zone defense and keeping the guards home on defense – help rebounding numbers like you said.

        But the W’s do get up the floor and run a little still. I think.

        Chicago, Memphis, Sacramento, Orlando – those teams in particular – hand it to us… All have been good at posting up our bigs and dominating our boards.

  12. RickP: Bogut is, at best, an average center. With Bogut on the court over a 48 period (not one game), the Warriors have outscored their opponents by a measly 2 points, and with him off the court they break even at the center position, a further indication he’s nothing to call friends about. 82 games.

    With Lee, Curry, Barnes, and Jack, the Warriors outscore their opponents between 0.8 to 3 points with any of them on the court for 48 minutes. Their relatively low positive contributions is an indication that there ratings are being driven down by the bench. and that overall, the Warriors are just slightly better than an average team. The number of games they won have exceed the number of games they should have one.

    Contrasting Bogut with Udoh, it’s apparent there’s no comparison in who is by far the better player. As last year, with Udoh, the Warriors outscored their opponents by a whopping 8.7 points over a 48 minute period that he played, and with him off the court, the Warriors were outscored by their opponents a whopping 7.6. And when D. Lee played with Udoh he had a higher positive rating and when he played with others last year, which was most of the time, he had a negative rating. That is why D. Lee finished with a negative rating last year. The Warriors this year far outscored their opponents last year with Lee and Udoh playing then they do this year with Bogut and D.Lee playing together.

    Except for Lacob and company, no one in their right mind would have traded Udoh for Bogut, knowing these stats, and further knowing that Bogut was coming off a series of serious injuries. Rather than look at how the team plays with a particular player, the Warriors wanted those extra defensive rebounds that Bogut provides and his better shooting. Just plain stupid. They should have been looking at the shooting % of oppone and additional scoring opportunities that he provided the Warriors. If they had done so, they would have seen that Udoh was a far superior player.

    Unfortunately, some posters buy into the Warriors thinking.

    It should be noted that the Warriors are barely playing even with Thompson on the court (0.2 positive rating), and play about the same with Thompson off the court. That does not mean that Thompson is not need, but it does indicate that Thompson is far from being an all-star caliber player.

    While the Warriors earlier in the season outscored their opponents with
    Landry on the court, that has now changed as the Warriors now play slightly better when he is not on the court. This might be because he is playing with Green and Ezeli who have minus ratings. meaning that overall the Warriors have over the course of the season been outscored with either of them on the court.

    • @Frank – Are you saying that Bogut’s impact is 2 points for 48 minutes and that Lee, Curry, Barnes, and Jack, the Warriors outscore their opponents between 0.8 to 3 points with any of them on the court for 48 minutes? Bogut’s not so bad, I’d say. Ezeli’s number is -6.1.

      http://www.82games.com/1213/1213GSW.HTM

      To be fair, what’s Ekpe Udoh’s numbers in Milwaukee?

      Don’t worry – I checked… It’s – 2.7! Negative number. NEGATIVE number.

      http://www.82games.com/1213/1213MIL.HTM

      And Ekpe Udoh’s NOT coming off microfracture.

      Your sample size regarding Ekpe Udoh’s impact on the W’s is just too miniscule to extrapolate too much off it. Could be due to good/bad rotations, favorable matchups/schedule, etc…

  13. Interesting – Scott Machado from Queens (like Mark Jackson, Charles Jenkins, etc.)

  14. PeteyBrian: Bogut is simply not worth the money he is being paid.

    The Warriors played exceeding well with Udoh on the court for two straight years, not one.

    You chose to ignore that. Udoh is playing for new coach in new system. Citing stats for a player that no longer plays for us is not very relevant unless you want to speculate that is what he would have done for the Warriors this year. Don’t think you want to go there. Sure, that Lacob would make the same argument.

    Playing with most of the same players as last year, it’s safer to conclude that Udoh would have increased the Warriors scoring margin to above 7.8 points from last year.

    I predicted earlier that the Warriors would outscore there opponents by 2 or 3 points with Bogut on the court over a 48 minute period. So, the Warriors are worse this year with Bogut. If you want to look on the bright side since he does have a small positive rating, your free to do so.

    The Warriors have been outscored by 3 points over 48 minutes with Ezeli on the court. That’s not horrible given that Ezeli is a back-up and plays limited minutes.

    For a poster to be happy because we will have cap room after next year in order to justify the trade for Bogut and Jefferson, imply makes no sense.

  15. PeteyBrian: You misread Udoh’s stats from 82 games. The Bucks have played even with him on the court, and worse without him on the court.

  16. Frank,
    82 games, last I looked, was current only to March 21 and included the entire season up to that point. I gave Bogut the benefit of the doubt, and used only games since early March. This is based on the notion that he wasn’t healthy before. I understand that he does not look particularly healthy now, but at least he’s playing. I have also had the thought that Ezeli is playing better, but I think the analysis will show that Ezeli and Bogut just have a very different mix of weaknesses.

    Beyond that, I see that Jackson continues to use Bogut in the high screen. I don’t get that. He barely needs to be guarded, but that far out, he doesn’t need to be guarded at all. They were successful with Lee in that role, but not Bogut.

    I have also watched how Bogut uses the elbow. It looks to me like he’s compensating for it by using his other hand a lot — and it isn’t working all that well.

    Anyway, the gist of this is that it isn’t black and white. The numbers since March do not indicate that he’s hurting the team. In fact, his +/- is about 65% of the team’s total +/- (both positive numbers). I haven’t broken it down by the quality of the opponent’s bigs. That might show something different.

  17. In Bogut’s 25 minutes of play the Warriors have basically outscored their opponents by a point. The real question is whether the team plays even better with D. Lee playing center.

  18. Gosh, Frank.

    Unless you’re Bogut’s doc, I don’t think you can say he won’t come back healthier next year. We don’t know. Hell, Bogut doesn’t know.

    Even if Bogut doesn’t return to his early-days form, next season he will have had more time to figure out how to use his post-surgical bod. If you need an example of how good that can be, think how Grant Hill re-invented his game after recovering from worse ankle problems than Bogut’s.

    I agree that Udoh was/is a useful sub, but all 3 of his NBA coaches have seen him as a backup, not a starter. He’s only averaging 17 min. with the Bucks, with 3.2 rebounds. Fine D, adequate shooting, but sub-par post game and simply unacceptable rebounding. The Ws got HAMMERED on the boards last year despite DLee’s numbers. Udoh can’t be played at all unless he’s running next to an outstanding rebounder. Sorry, but that makes him only a “some situations” player, absolutely not a team’s anchor. Ezeli IS better in some ways than Udoh right now, and his upside potential has yet to be determined. Unlike Udoh’s. After 3 years in the league, we have a good idea what Udoh will deliver in his 4th year. He’ll be a short-minutes backup next year too.

    As you know I thought the Bogut trade was horrible too. But what is, is. I’m only concerned about where the Ws go from here. Yes, Lacob & Co. screwed the pooch last year. Now let’s move on. What do you think the team needs to improve next year?

  19. Hat: Your still making same mistake by looking solely at a player’s individual stats and not what he brings to a team that does not readily show up in stats.

    The number of contested shots don’t show up in stats nor does stats show the number of OR’s, steals, blocked shots, and steals that turn into scores. From watching Udoh play, he’s a monster giving his team extra possessions.

    Teams take approximately 80 shots per game. You want an interior defender with quickness to contest 15 or so of those shots. Udoh does that extremely well. If Bogut contests 6 shots per outing, he had a good game. I don’t think that will change next year. Contested shots is what defense is all about. I want my center conteting shots all over the court as Udoh did, not concentrating on defensive rebounds.

    I watched many games that when Udoh played with either the first team or with bench players, and the opposition went 5 to 7 minutes with barely scoring the same number of points as minutes. You won’t see that from Bogut. It’s the difference between being an impact player and an average defender.

    Ezeli, who presently has no offense may not ever be as good as Bogut and that’s not saying much.

    Defensive rebounding is fool’s gold. If one player doesn’t get one, a fellow player usually does. Even you could average at least 5 per game as most often the offensive team does not try to get rebounds, but rather head back up-court.

    The Warriors were stupid in playing Biedrins over Udoh last year. They showed the same idiocy by trading him. The Bucks organization not much better. As Redick played much better at Orlando than he has for Bucks..

    I believe the Warrior got killed on the defensive boards primarily because our opponents went to foul-line more than we did while we took FG% attempts and missed more shots from the field then our opponents.

    You’ll see Udoh on championship team before you’ll see Bogut on one. Actually, I suspect next year is his last year with the Warriors.

  20. A correction: Udoh has had 4 NBA coaches, not 3. All FOUR of his NBA coaches have played Udoh only as a sub, less than half time. Udoh’s career min. per game is 18.6, this year 17.0.

    Udoh’s career rpg is only 3.5, this year 3.2. His career ppg is 4.2, his FG% only .434. He is the absolute last resort on offense: bad hands, limited post moves and a pitiful shooting percentage for a center.

    He man-man coverage is hampered by his lack of size and strength. He plays help defense well. After the ball is in the air, though, he is a complete FAIL as a rebounder.

    THAT is the player you think should be the Warriors’ starting C? He only does one thing well. I think ALL FOUR OF HIS NBA COACHES have shown that they prefer to put a more complete player on the floor instead. Sorry, but that seems like a good idea to me, too.

  21. Music apropos (#3), Slim Gaillard’s version of Flat Foot Floogie (did he create the song?):

    • As I recall, there is a terrific description of a Slim set in On the Road by Jack Kerouac.

      In an old video I noticed that his drummer was none other than Scatman Crothers. Yes, that Scatman Crothers.

  22. It may be easy to overlook what a total player Curry is, how much he can do, how crafty he is. And I don’t think there’s anything he won’t try. Watch this slow mo analysis of his dribble:

    • There are also links for his pull back and combo. Someone should write a book on his move. (YouTube is acting up today, or is it just my computer?)

  23. Pekovic is an ideal matchup for Bogut. Limited mobility, no outside shot. And none of the other TWolves had to be guarded. But a nice defensive performance nonetheless.

    I was more impressed with Barnes’ rebounds than his scoring. Nearly all of his makes were dunks created for him by others. Aside from his open three, all of the shots he tried to create for himself were blocked. I’m trying to remember if this is the first time I’ve seen him unleashed on the offensive boards. It’s a good role for him, not sure why he’s not used there more often.

    Klay Thompson… no need to comment any more on his offense. He’s one of the NBA’s best, in his second year. I will mention that I am incredibly impressed by the blossoming of his defensive instincts lately, though — 5 steals in this game. He’s got that Chris Mullin/Stephen Curry genius for the game that transcends athleticism. He’s going to be a great, great player.

    • Still force feeding the narative eh felt…Player-of-the-Week Pekovic has been tearing it up going into his Bogut match-up…

      ~The felbot myth~

      • Not force feeding anything. The immobile Bogut matches up well against the immobile big Pek (and the non-shooting point guard Rubio) — as I stated. See anyone else like them among the league’s contenders?

  24. The Warriors will not see another Godzilla in any playoff matchup. For the centers, you’re being polite, FB. That was the most boring and inconsequential basketball we’ve seen this season. Pekovic could have moved on Bogut and at least drawn more fouls. But Bogut did not even try on offense when he had plenty of opportunities. Whomever they meet, they’d be better off benching Bogut and going back to Ezeli/Landry. Bogut will do more harm than good.

    Thompson has a determination that is sometimes painful to watch. You wonder if it is going to break him. It won’t. He’ll never give up, never stop trying to improve all aspects of his game. There’s no way we can give up on him either.

  25. I agree with you that Bogut has become a liability in the current season. He has trouble guarding any center and his offensive abilities are limited at this point. However, at this time, Bogut remains the most viable option at the Center position if the Warriors want to win. The reason–basketball IQ.

    If you want to replace Bogut with the quicker Ezeli, you have to account for his lack of basketball sense at this point. You can’t blame him, he is still young and learning. But, if you count the number of dropped passes or turnovers from Festus, you realize he can’t be in the game during crucial stretches. The first Laker game at home, Ezeli had some huge turnovers and drops that cost us key possessions down the stretch. Say what you will about Bogut, but he is an exceptional passer and moves to the right areas in the post. Ezeli also may be a better one-on-one defender but Bogut still has his gift of weakside help and spacial instincts. So, while his one-on-one defense is exposed against quicker Centers, he does still bring defensive value.

    The other option is bringing Landry in and pushing Lee to Center. While this has helped play “5 on 5″ on offense, defensively teams are learning to pound the ball inside. Recently, opposing teams are punishing us inside when we use this lineup, with no true shot blocker in the game. Sometimes this lineup works, but when there is a low post presence in the key, we need a Center in the lineup.

    So, while I agree that the Bogut-Myth does exist, at this point in time Ezeli and Landry aren’t the answers. Bogut should be in there because of his passing, spacing, and ability to affect the game on the defensive end.

  26. GSW 100 @Min 100-99
    Biedrins starts, Ezeli plays 6 mins (?)
    Pekovic 21 points
    Rebounds: GSW 48 Min 41

    GSW 106 @Min 98
    Ezeli starts, no Pekovic
    Rebounds GSW 50 Min 34

    GSW 96 Min 85
    Ezeli starts, Pekovic 17 points
    Rebounds: GSW 48 Min 39

    GSW 105 Min 89
    Bogut starts, scores 2 points; Pekovic 5 points
    Rebounds GSW 60 Min 44

    There are all kinds of factors to account for the differences in margins of victory, though I suspect the most important is the play of Lee, Curry, and Thompson, vs. shooting for Min. Notice they win the rebound battle in every game. Last night, at the end of the season, I suspect Min is demoralized.

    I suppose it could be argued that Bogut was effective in neutralizing Pekovic, though if I’m a Minnesota fan, I’m screaming why my big lummox couldn’t take on the hobbled, smaller lummox for Golden State. But when everything is added up, it’s easy to conclude Bogut didn’t make a significant difference. At any rate, we won’t be seeing King Kong in the playoffs.

    It wasn’t the airplanes. It was beauty killed the beast.

  27. Chris L noted this on the other blog.

    Last night, with the game well in hand and the team clinching a playoff spot for the first time in years, every player played at least 6 minutes, except Machado (was he there?)—

    And Biedrins.

    We’ve talked at length about Biedrins’ play, which doesn’t need to be repeated. But as a person, he’s been with the Warriors 9 years, battling injury and doubts. Lacob thought enough of him not to amnesty him. With Bogut down, he got more minutes and many starts over Ezeli. Then he stopped playing. Was it because Bogut returned or because the trade deadline had passed? It’s hard to believe they were showcasing him, but no other explanation makes sense. A lot of Lacob’s decisions don’t make sense.

    Would it have been an insult to a veteran to play garbage time last night in a symbolic game? Is Biedrins still injured? Was this Jackson’s decision or Lacob’s?

    But it’s hard to believe that this isn’t some kind of insult to Biedrins, which doesn’t speak well for the organization who says it cares about “character.”

    • @rgg

      Sounds about right to showcase Biedrins for the possibility of a trade. Next year, a rebuilding team might take on his expiring late season – IF there’s anything out there worth trading for that’s not worse – although most of the really bad contracts have been amnestied already.

      RE: Jefferson – I’ve always liked Richard Jefferson’s game/character. I wish they’d have more minutes for him. He was such a great player in New Jersey – a slightly below borderline All-Star. I only hope Harrison Barnes turns out to be a poor man’s Richard Jefferson (of New Jersey Nets fame). If Barnes only improves his defense, I’ll be pleased… Jefferson – like Biedrins – will be an opportunity for a rebuilding team to trade to – although I’ll have to scan rosters for an opportunity. There may not be any… or many…

      • Benching him last night still smells bad, unless there’s something we don’t know. And really, it was the only time he could have gotten some kind of recognition at a significant occasion. Ezeli needs to play the next games to tune up for the playoffs.

        Biedrins far exceeded my expectations of him this year, and any expectation Lacob et al. should have had. Pay him tribute—and many fans have stuck with Biedrins the last 9 years, good and bad.

        • Tribute to Andris Biedrins? Wow! You really do have a big heart!

          Perhaps if Andris showed up in September (he didn’t)… Don’t forget, 14 out of 15 guys (or so) showed up early to camp. Andris – did his own thing… That’s not a veteran leader I’d want in a new organization/young team…

          I have no loyalty to Biedrins. Not unless FB’s theory is correct…

  28. Klay Thompson is Reggie Miller re-incarnate. That is – if he goes to the rim more (create and increase his FG percentage) and draws contact (free throw line). In only his second season, most good players will have an incremental improvement in their third season. I’m excited for his potential.

    Harrison Barnes – A game like this is why I won’t throw him under the bus… 10 boards and 15 points in 26 minutes? Crazy production. But Barnes’ production this season has been very inconsistent. And monster athleticism does not always translates to the court. Can Barnes take the next step next year with his defense as did Klay Thompson this season? If he does improve his D, he’ll be a keeper. If not, trade him fast before his value drops.

    • Here’s a question: If the team had a bona fide spread 4 and Lee played center, or had a center who could move out of the lane with some offensive threat, how much better a driver would Thompson be?

      • Would his defense improve if they had a genuine defensive 2 and Thompson played 3?

        • I’m all for the acquisition of a spread 4. As an option for the coach, not necessarily as a permanent solution.

          If the W’s were smart enough to acquire PF Patterson, for instance, I’d rather Patterson to play 15-25 minutes…

          I loved whenever Nellie needed to knock a big lumbering center off the floor with a quicker, perimeter player. However, I’d always prefer to have a big man good enough to play straight up.

          A healthy Brandon Rush – IMHO – IS a strong defensive 2 who can spread the floor with a consistent 40% three point shot, guard the opponents best perimeter player (and be very effective), or drive the lane/finish. Brandon Rush – can move Klay Thompson to the 3…

          Curry, Rush, Thompson
          Curry, Thompson, Barnes
          Curry, Thompson, Rush
          Jack, Rush, Jefferson
          Jack, Curry, Thomson
          Jack, Curry, Barnes
          Jack, Thompson, Barnes

          All very good to me…

          If Barnes is the real deal, Thompson plays SG. If Barnes isn’t the real deal, trade Barnes for draft pick(s), or something good!

  29. Felty: Granted Thompson started off with a great shooting night. It’s nice that he had five steals, but he has rarely had even two steals up to this game. And some of those steals seemed not to be steals at all as the ball bounced around and came to rest in his hands or were very bad Minnesota passes. I don’t see why you simply ignore his body of work over the year which has been very inconsistent.

    It’s as if you proclaimed him a star and therefore whenever he has a good game you go off on extolling his virtues. I see some potential, but he has no proven consistent body of work that allows someone to place him in star category. I just don’t see, as you do. If you look at his stats for the year you’ll seen he turns the ball over more than he makes steals or gets offensive rebounds, which means the Warriors have less possessions rather than more possessions with him on the court.

    I don’t see his genius on either side of the ball, although he did have some nice assists last night. Let’s see how he does in the playoffs and on the road against a good team, not Minnesota.

    Hat: What Warrior jumped higher than Udoh? There is none.

    You should considered that Smart and Jackson played Biedrens over Udoh because of the size of Biedrins’ contract and they wanted to to promote him in order to move him. they may have done so on Lacob orders. They surely were not winning with Biedrins starting,and an argument can be made that Lacob had Biedrins playing for he wanted to get the draft pick. They only started Udoh just before the trade to highlight his value. And when he started the Warriors defense was in the top two of the NBA. You’ll never see that anytime soon.

    And Milwaukee also has many good big man with big contracts.

    • Klay’s averaging 3.8 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 0.5 blocks, and 1 steal per game.

      Harkless? 4.5 rb, 0.6 assists, 0.8 blks, and 1.1 steals…

      Reggie Miller (career avg)? 3.0 rb, 3.0 ast, .2 blk, and 1.1 steals per game.

      What am I missing Frank? Klay’s stats pretty darn good for a one-trick pony…

  30. What I really liked about last night’s game is that the Warriors dominated the defensive boards by giving up only 6 offensive rebounds, and Harrison Barnes garnering 3 offensive rebounds, with 1 turnover, resulting in the Warriors having a net 2 plus extra scoring opportunities due to Barnes efforts on the offensive glass. I’ve been arguing for both Barnes and Thompson to go to the offensive glass for sometime.

    While the Warriors earlier in the year had held their own in the OR differential, in the later part of the season they had been losing the OR battle. Hope such continues.

  31. BTW – anyone notice during Lacob’s playoff interview – that he reported it was a 2 long years to make the playoffs??? Perhaps I need a hearing aid…

    Is it just me, or isn’t this year 3???

    • didn’t lacob and the preacher promise playoffs in the coach’s first year ? that’s the timeline the owner is probably using.

  32. Meyers on the future:

    The master plan’s centerpiece is this: to be prepared when a franchise changer becomes available. Myers estimates there might be 15 of those in the league at any one time. You obtain them through free agency, or through your pick in the draft, or through trading for someone else’s selection.

    “There’s going to be a moment in time when you have a chance to acquire that player,” Myers said. “Is your roster and your franchise situation set up for that one moment in time? What we cannot have happen is that when the moment comes, we’re not ready.”

    http://www.contracostatimes.com/warriors/ci_22989955/purdy-golden-state-warriors-g-m-bob-myers?source=rss

    This is simplistic, stupid, and depressing. What it suggests is that the Warriors do not recognize the strengths they have in Lee and Curry—and Thompson—or the need to build around their particular skills and weaknesses. Rather, they are prepared to do whatever it takes to get that “franchise player” at the expense of what they already have, without thought of how it will affect the rest of the team or their flexibility in cap space or how that player will fit in. Who knows who they will put on the block.

    Franchise players are not cheap.

    They’re not going to want to come here.

    They aren’t often available, and the competition is to acquire them is steep and ridiculous.

    They will not get Lebron.

    They will not get Durant.

    Who else after that will be available, who hasn’t aged out, who really will make a difference? There aren’t 10-15 franchise players, only expensive compromises, who do not integrate well with a team.

    Get ready for the next transcendent deal.

    • rgg – it is worse than that. It also implies that they will not make decisions in the interim to maximize the capabilities of the current squad but to keep the squad flexible for the next “transformational” star acquisition. Wait – I thought Lacob said they needed 3 stars.

      • Nor will they develop capable players in the interim to give the team depth and flexibility in the future. Nor will they have money for the same depth when they overspend on some “franchise” player. They may, in fact, be putting the future off indefinitely. They didn’t have to do much this year to make a much more competitive team at a time when so many teams are weak and rebuilding. They had the money, had they not wasted it.

        There are probably a hundred reasons why this strategy is dumb, and we’ll probably be discussing them the next few years.

        • please don’t give lacob and his mouthpiece myers the power to make you depressed. their strategy is perfect for them, and why should they care if it indefinitely postpones the team seriously contending (reaching the conference finals the qualifying line). the owner, the personnel chief, and their coach don’t truly have a coherent vision of winning hoops to build for. with this plan, the value of players is foremost what they are as commodities. myers is putting together an asset portfolio.

          just think of them as a small budget version of NY.

          • moto – great call. The perfect description of the Knicks and it will now color my perceptions of the warriors moves.

    • Wouldn’t this have been a perfect opportunity for a real journalist to ask about what happened with James Harden?

      • Harden is not a franchise player. But he is a very fine player who could have improved the team, if the right deal were struck at the right price, if they didn’t gut the roster to get him.

        And they could have done it.

        My nightmare is that Lacob keeps courting Howard.

        Or goes after Bynum.

  33. @ 24,

    FB, tell me if you see it differently, but my impression of Bogut is that he’s a smart player with some broken parts. He seems to know the right things to do, but can’t always manage it. If that’s the case, getting healthier is 99.9% of what he needs to play better, right? If so, the smart thing is to rest him for the rest of the regular season.

    Furthermore:

    Watching NBA rookies often reminds me of Joe Montana, of all people. Joe once said that as he got more experience he simply saw more. His vision improved.

    Montana felt he always had enough physical ability, but didn’t always have the vision needed to win. That seems to hold true in basketball too. It helps explain why “low and slow” but brilliant players like Chris Mullin and Larry Bird could make such an impact.

    Mark Jackson seems to deal with rookies’ limited court vision by simplifying their role: Klay shoot, Barnes drive, Green defend.

    Now we’re seeing the next steps for Klay and Barnes. Especially Klay. At the start of the season it would have been impossible to predict that he would develop defensive smarts, but he definitely has now. On offense he didn’t used to assist others, now he’s #2 on the team. He’s slowly making himself a completely kick-ass player, step by step. It’s impressive.

    In last night’s game, Barnes too added a new dimension to his game, rebounding in a crowd. Maybe there’s more there, there too. Like Joe Montana, the rookie Barnes already possesses all the physical ability needed to be one of the best ever at his position. With more game vision maybe he can use more of his raw ability more effectively. Maybe we saw a first glimpse of it last night. One game isn’t a trend, but at least for one game Barnes provided some evidence that he could step up.

    Draymond Green goes against the usual rookie pattern. Outstanding court vision, superb defensive footwork (among the very best in the history of basketball! OMFG! We’re talkin’ professional demo tapes here!). On the other end of the court Green always seems to get open when no one else can. No one plans to get him the ball but he ends up with it anyway on 20-30% of his team’s offensive possessions. A smart player, mostly riding the pine because he doesn’t score well. If Green could execute on offense his coaches might never let him leave the game. But at 13.4 minutes per game he might never get enough NBA experience to figure it out.

    Ergo, my prediction for the last few Warriors regular season games: More PT for the rookies, less for veterans. We’ll probably lose the next few battles, but it could help us win more later.

    Let’s see what happens.

  34. Frank, I love ya man, so here’s some advice: let it go. Udoh is a lifetime sub, never to be a star.

    Despite his up-and-down scoring, it’s obvious that Klay is improving game by game. A far better player than on Game 1 of this season. Not yet “great” perhaps, but unquestionably a plus for the team.

    Bogut is playing on 1.5 legs right now. He’s only semi-recovered at the moment, so he’s not a washout, not yet. He may or may not be able to step up his game later, but being a terrifically smart player the odds are he will improve at least somewhat, one way or another. After all, his speed would be 7.5% better if he only got to 1.6 legs.

    Maybe if Jackson follows my “plan” (above) for the rest of the regular season, the Ws could go further than one-series-and-out in this year’s playoffs. If nothing else, Bogut would get more healing time, and Thompson, Barnes and Green would get more development time.

    It ain’t over until the fat lady dunks on Kobe.

    • Hat,

      Udoh didn’t cost 22m + a year, but about 3m this year. Think about Udoh and whoever else could have been added.

      Udoh would have been much more useful to the team this year than Bogut, for obvious maybe not so obvious reasons.

      Bogut is not a high caliber athlete. He is a really big guy who has already played 8 years in the NBA, sort of. He is injury prone, and is currently nursing several afflictions. The “healthy Bogut” is another myth. We won’t see it next year, if it ever existed.

      Thinking about him after that is sheer insanity.

      I love you too, man, of course.

      • rgg, bubke,

        If Bogut got to 1.7 legs he’d be 15% quicker than today. 1.8 legs = 22.5% quicker, higher, stronger, better and more effective overall.

        Bogut will probably never regain 100% of the athleticism he once had. He doesnt need to, to be better than “the 2nd best center Don Nelson ever had,” the young Andris Biedrins. A Bogut on 1.8 legs would be a damn fine player.

        Udoh is topped out. What we saw last year, is still. A fine sub. Happy to have him on the team. Landry is a better overall player, though. He has none of Udoh’s strengths but everything Udoh doesn’t have. Most teams would pick Landry over Udoh. Wouldn’t you?

        • 22% of slow as molasses = slow

          He never had that much athleticism to begin with.

          Something else will break or bother him, and I’d worry about his back. His frame is not just built to carry his bulk or the stress of NBA play.

          I am not impressed with his “skills.” I have pictures in the playoffs, when Bogut dribbles around in the backcourt of Westbrook stealing the ball from under his legs and charging for a dunk.

          xxxooooo

  35. Ratto brought up a nice nugget of trivia when he looked at the past success the seventh seeds have had vs. the twos in the first playoff round. they’ve pulled an upset and advanced four times in fifty attempts. nelson and GS accomplished it twice. winning in LA after the nationally viewed OK game might be the key to keeping the sixth seed ; after playing Mem and Sac at home, Hou will go to Phx and play the same night that the woeyrs meet SA.

  36. The view from the top:

    “To me, (the trade) was vindicated from Day 1. The trade was a fantastic trade. We had to get bigger. We had to get tougher. We had to get stronger. We had to do all those things. There’s still things we need to do, but yeah, we’re a better team because of that trade.”

    Joe Lacob

    http://www.csnbayarea.com/warriors/report-warriors-owner-guarantees-championship

    • That line is a big negatory, JL. It never was true, and isn’t now. Maybe someday, but not this year and maybe never.

    • Total delusional hubris. This is the kind of stuff that shows he can either self delude or he thinks the fans are stupid. This is where he should be quiet. As rgg has said so many times – it is not how good bogut or ellis are for their respective teams… it is how good could the warriors been if they hadn’t blown the cap dollars on bogut and jefferson. This makes it an indefensible trade. The Bucks blogs are calling the trade a win on both sides. They are totally right. But even in his own statement, Lacob deludes himself. He said it was better from day one – when they could not have been sure that Bogut would recover, so he is saying that no matter what happened with Bogut the trade was still a good one. I am thinking this has the hallmarks of a narcissist.

  37. PeteyBrian: the point I made is that Thompson costs the Warriors the possessions. Let me break it down for you. Extra or less possessions arer determined by taking a players avg number of turnovers and subtracting steals and OR’s. I don’t consider blocks because one does not know from the stat sheet who recovered the block.

    Thompson averages 35 minutes per game. He’s averaged per game 1.9 TO, and 1.04 steals and .4 offensive rebounds. Subtracting the 1.04 steals and .4 OR. from turnovers, shows that he cost the Warriors and avg. of .54 possessions per game. That’s like two extra points per game via 2 additional possessions.

    On the other hand, Harkless, averaging 25 minutes of play, commits an average per game of only .8 turnovers, has 1.9 OR and 1.14 steals. So he provides Orlando with an average of 2.19 additional possessions per game playing 10 less minutes then Thompson.

    That’s a huge difference. The differential will even increase as Harkless gets more playing time and approaches Thompson’s playing time. As his steals and OR will increase and his turnovers will only marginally go up.

    And Harkless blocks an average of .81 shots per game, while Thompson playing more time blocks .54 per game playing more minutes.

    Can you comprehend what it means for one player to provide his team with at least 2 extra possessions each game? That’s huge from one player. You need that from as many players as you can sign. You do the math for each Warrior player. Who provides the Warriors with additional possessions per game? I believe no one. No player can be considered that good who each game costs your team possessions in a game.

    Hat: Your a good man. We’ve each said our piece. I line-up with rgg. You believe Bogut will improve next year. We don’t. We’ll see.

    • Frank, re Bogut, fair enough. We can’t know right now.

      I thought I was seeing him get better already, throughout the last 2 months. What do you think, am I seeing things that aren’t there?

      • hat – you are right – he is getting better. The point is that he is really only playing well in favorable matchups and he is so far away from being able to quickly recover on defense that another 20% increase in quickness – is not going to solve the problem. The other problem is that awkward left hand shovel shot. The elbow injury occured a few years ago now and you cannot hold out hope that it will still improve. This means his offense is permanently constrained. Since his offense ability from the waist up has probably not worsened since we traded for him, I have to wonder – who evaluated at his offensive play from the abbreviated 2011 season. Forget the ankle, his elbow alone would eliminate his as a transcendent player and someone I would pay $14M a year to.

  38. I made one mistake. Harkless averages 1.7 OR’s per game, not 1.9. He still had a net plus of 2 extra possessions per game.

  39. Interesting is the fact that Bogut leads the team in providing the Warriors with a net average of 2 additional possessions per game, Landry 1.2, D. Lee 1.1, and Ezeli in his limited playing time provides the Warriors with a net positive 1.8 additional possession per game. This goes a long way to offsetting his poor shooting.

  40. @37 (see link)

    Lepper also tweeted this:

    Lacob: “And we’re going to win an NBA championship here. I guarantee it.”

    • From Wikipedia:

      Commodus also had a passion for gladiatorial combat, which he took so far as to take to the arena himself, dressed as a gladiator. The Romans found Commodus’s naked gladiatorial combats to be scandalous and disgraceful. . . . In the arena, Commodus always won since his opponents always submitted to the emperor. Thus, these public fights would not end in death. . . . For each appearance in the arena, he charged the city of Rome a million sesterces, straining the Roman economy.

      • sterling could be one of the most despicable owners in big $$ sports, but it would serve woeyr fans a good lesson if the second class southland team won the trophy before the lacobites. this summer, chris paul could have a big influence in determining the championship chances of whatever teams he’ll be considering.

        • Sterling, not exactly to his credit, doesn’t pretend to be anyone other than who he is, does he?

          • the same aversion to disguise could be said of cohan, but in the narrative of transformation cohan has to be the grinch. one of my favorite sterling tales is how he pandered to women friends who liked seeing buff bodies and gave them tours of his team’s dressing and training rooms, which is just the flip side of the gender coin to what you’re alluding to about the cheerleaders.

          • Corey Maggette, in fact, brought this to my attention, along with other problems under Sterling. I haven’t heard Sterling trying to cover such behavior, however, with slick, sick promotion. I like to think he knows who he is and doesn’t care, my point.

  41. Anyone else catch Jim Barnett interviewing Andrew Bogut on Warriors Roundtable just now?

    Bogut just admitted, in different words, that his ankle is still killing him. He has good days and bad days. He doesn’t go out after games or practice, because he needs to stay off it. He feels as if he doesn’t have his legs under him enough to play in the low post.

    When asked if he ever had doubts that he would make it back, he answered, “I still have doubts.”

    This my commentary: Osteoarthritis doesn’t go away. Particularly in 27o lb. basketball players.

    If someone could find and post the link to this evening’s Warriors Roundtable on KNBR, I’d appreciate it.

  42. Meyers (read Lacob) says the way to build a winning team is to save up and get that defining player. Denver, who shed its “franchise” player, Melo, built a real team and has just defeated, without two starters (Lawson and Gallinari) San Antonio (without Parker). Denver may well be the 4th. best team in the NBA. And it can withstand injury. And it has the means to get better for years to come. They won’t have to wait for anything.

    Does Meyers (Lacob) actually watch the games and know what’s going on now?

    OK, I’ve been sitting on this one, and it’s started to bother me as much as Fitz’s whiny promos of the players. Is anyone else bugged by the looks on the Warriors’ Girls, those frozen, baby doll smiles, whenever the camera pans on them? They look and act like 10 year old girls, all made up, I assume on order. (Cf. with the new uniforms.)

    The whole Lacob schtick is sweetly sick and nauseating. I’m curious about the stories behind the scenes, today about Biedrins and Bogut, one benched, one playing in pain.

    “Commodus was also known for fighting exotic animals in the arena, often to the horror of the Roman people. . . . he decapitated a running ostrich with a specially designed dart and afterwards carried the bleeding head of the dead bird and his sword over to the section where the Senators sat and gesticulated as though they were next.”

    Wikipedia again

    • you’re describing another aspect of the entertainment matrix — fetishizing/sexualizing pubescent or prepubescent (puberty has started younger in post industrial cultures) bodies. pro sports is hooked right into it, including the exhibition sports of course like gymnastics and ice skating. the matrix is a big stream with diverse tributaries and canal systems, some coming or going to places like advertising modeling (remember the coppertone girl who grew into a child film star), kiddie porn.

      let’s not forget that the younger lacob first made a name for himself as a second lieutenant in scouting when he tried to pimp out the cheerleaders. didn’t slow his climb in the bidness, as he gained responsibilities with his own team in s.cruz to run.

      • This may sound like slick cultural criticism from someone in left field to some, but you are describing exactly what we are seeing. But nothing in your critical analysis prepares me for Guber’s words @44. If I attempted a gross satire of the organization, I could never have come up with anything so mesmerizing. His words approach—what’s the opposite of sublime but still has its feel? Bathos won’t do the trick.

        “We’d already won, in the sense that we won the fans’ minds,” he said.

        He must really believe this.

  43. This just in from Peter Guber:

    Asked right off the bat about his team’s achievement, Mr. Guber took a big picture view. “We’d already won, in the sense that we won the fans’ minds,” he said.

    His goal is for no one to walk out of the Golden State Warriors’ new San Francisco arena, slated to open in 2017 as the most digital sports venue in the world. Mr. Guber is probably the only major American sports team owner who discusses his stadium in terms of bitrate availablity and having its own dedicated operating system, and he has some seriously next-level ideas for the Warriors’ next arena. Paperless tickets and smartphone ordering of concessions are just the beginning of Mr. Guber’s vision.
    “The difference with location-based entertainment is that fans think they can affect the game,” Mr. Guber said. “This has to be iconic.”

    “This has to be a digital venue that serves as a beacon and lightning rod for the San Francisco Bay Area community,” he said. But if you’ve ever seen Peter Guber speak, he’s something of a beacon and lightning rod all by himself.

    http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/14390454-warriors-owner-peter-guber-talks-success-failure-and-golden-states-new-digital-arena

    I’m getting sick. . . .

    • “fans think they can affect the game”

      I’m guessing fans will get apps for their smart phones where they can select starters, etc. The apps will be rigged, however, for Lacob’s lineup—Barnes, Bogut, etc.

    • there’s an entertaining critique from within the entertainment matrix itself contra experiencing life via electronic buffers, the bruce willis flick “surrogates”. it’s another extrapolation of the ideas for which philip k.dick’s “do androids dream of electric sheep” was an avatar [in its original sense, not as applied in the popular film, which was of course another variation of the consciousness via technology theme] in popular culture. when guber puts on these performances, it seems like he’s parodying himself, but he lacks willis’ acting chops, so it’s hard to tell whether he’s consciously doing so. he clearly understands how his job includes acting and performing for the audio and visual recorders.

  44. lauridsen just published another volume in the revisionist history series, a companion to the recent repudiation of ‘we believe’. like many popular histories, it’s larded with some nuggets of accuracy for plausibility’s sake, particularly the talking point on firing keith smart. the writer notes that lacob refers to his ownership starting last season rather than smart’s season, as if he wasn’t in charge and made that hire.

    if r.bucher who gained a national rep vilainizing nelson can come back to the bay getting paid to shill the lacobites, it’s only appropriate that the true fan lauridsen give his version of a triumphal parade to the owner, with ‘firing nelson’ in the top ten moves and lacob’s purchase made to resemble divine intervention.

    • I stopped reading Adam’s posts because there were so superficial. This one, however, is one of the most bizarre, illogical articles on the Warriors I have seen in some time. On its own, aside from the issues touched and sides taken, it’s a flimsy piece of thought that should embarrass. There does seem to be a hidden logic to it, however, that we have seen countless times in social life, that the best means to solve a problem is extermination. Strange psychology going on here.

    • I feel like I’m sticking appendages in the proverbial tar baby, but a couple of points.

      Per Adam’s article, the main reason the Warriors are in the playoffs is because of Lee and Curry, so the credit should go to Cohan, not that I want to give it. So his article is a defense of the Cohan regime.

      No one saw the potential in Curry, certainly not six other teams, more than Nelson, who took Curry in spite of the all the flack that followed, most notably from SJax. And Riley was the one who scouted Ezeli and Green, not Meyers. This was reported and linked here earlier.

      • And stating the obvious but perhaps forgotten, drafting Curry was especially risky as the Cohan FO (and Nelson) had promised Sjax and Monta they would bring in more size to the team. They could have drafted a somewhat promising big, though I don’t recall any being available then.

        Everyone seems happy with this move now. I’m quite curious, however, how Lacob would have handled that draft. Seriously. We have every reason to believe he would have gone after Jordan Hill or Tyler Hansbrough.

  45. @Frank

    My point is to say that Klay’s numbers (non-perimeter shooting, which are very good) aren’t bad and definitely not as bad as you’re making them out to be. Klay isn’t a one-trick pony.

    I agree – Harkless is a nice up and coming two-way player, no doubt… And I get your possessions discussion – but your numbers don’t make sense to me in comparing two different players in two different situations which I explain a little below.

    For instance, Harkless’ low seasonal turnover rate of .8??? If you use a turnover rate of .8, then use an 8 PPG figure… He isn’t turning over the ball because he isn’t scoring, creating, handling, etc. Harkless’ turnover rates will DRAMATICALLY increase with increased minutes, an increased role in the offense/handling the ball, when teams actually adjust for him defensively, and he starts creating for others (assists). He’ll be averaging 2-3 turnovers per game REAL soon… I PROMISE YOU!

    And Harkless’ defensive stats – like steals – won’t necessarily increase dramatically with 10 minutes more playing time per game.

    On another note:

    The guy Orlando picked up – Tobias… Check out his stat line on the lottery bound team! Wow! LOL! Huge stats piling up on a bad team.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400278886

  46. Moto: You’re on a roll.

    PeteyBrian: Harkless will increase his OR’s from 1.7 to about 2.4 with increased playing time. This increase will far exceed his slight increase in TO’s. Since teams usually garner more offensive rebounds than steals, it’s OR that most affects the number of extra possessions and scoring opportunities.

    You’re right on with regard to T. Harris.He had a monster game last night. I believe he had many OR’s and provided Orlando with a net five additional possessions.

    Ellis was awful last night.

    Lacob did not use amnesty on Biedrins because he didn’t want to pay in excess of $28 million to cover the rest of his contract. This cost us being able to trade for Harden, and sign other players. In my judgment, he only played Biedrins before the trade deadline hoping to trade him. I suspect, by not playing Biedrins and Jefferson, he hopes that both will either consider being bought out of the remainder of their contracts, or retire.

    • if you simply preach for more offensive rebounds without the right personnel, you’ll exacerbate one of the team’s biggest weaknesses, transition defense. it’s o.k. for bogut to mind the off. glass because it’s a positive by-product of his negative mobility. but for reasons most of us have discussed, they have to restrict his minutes or suffer the consequences. the one big who has the quickness and length to look for them, and more importantly hinder the outlet pass if the opposition gets the rebound or sprint back to defend the rim, is of course ezeli. the other guy who gets boards effectively on both ends is curry because he can take such quick reads of the ball and where the players are going.

      if the coaches can correct one weakness that would have a direct positive result, it’s reducing turnovers. curry and lee often appear to make the most glaring ones, but their usage rate is so high and the team relies on them so heavily to make plays that they’re not the main problems. the preacher does not believe in imposing shot discipline or restrictions, part of his player friendly approach, but it contributes to excessive mid range jump shots, which need to be confined to his best shooters (the rest simply need to take fewer 2 pt. attempts outside the paint, more 3 pt shots from specific areas) and indecision. more efficient and disciplined movement without the ball is an integral part of better shot selection (it would also reduce the turnovers from the playmakers), and the teams that execute both are the toughest to defend in half court. we’ll see plenty if the first round opponents are SA or Mem.

      when jack plays point and over dribbles, he contributes to the poor movement away from the ball. it’s just as well that his minutes of shared court time with barnes have been limited, for the rookie is tentative too often when he has the ball or needs to execute away from the ball. if the team continues to use jack at point to close close games they’ll have a limited ceiling of success.

  47. The Warriors this year gave up 1 1/2 possessions per game as the result of turnovers is probably the result of the players on the team and the coaching.

    They also gave up more offensive rebounds and made less steals. The net effect being that the Warriors gave their opponents two more additional scoring opportunities per game. The lack of offensive rebounds is due in my judgment in the Warriors simply not sending Barnes and Thompson to the offensive boards. This OR deficit also shows poor defense rebounding defensively, and the minus steal differential is due to poor ball handing on offense.

    The saving grace was the fact that the Warriors shot 45% from the field to it’s opponents 43%. The Warriors did not improve their shooting this year.

    This lessening of our opponent FG% from last year seems both the result of the coaching and possibly a decline in shooting in the NBA this year.

    Also, it appears that the coaches used a stay at home defense that reduced the opponent’s shooting % but game back that advantage by obtaining less steals than the opposition did.

    Even though the Warriors were outshot from the foul-line the Warriors shot a higher FT% that resulted in the Warriors averaging almost 1 more point per game than their opponents. I believe this is a big improvement over last year. Still need to add players that can get to the foul-line.

    The Warriors took almost 2 less three point shots per game than their opponents, but finished almost dead even in points for the season since the Warriors shots the best 3 point %. An indication that the Warriors should have been taking more 3′s, not less, than their opponents. Bad coaching.

    One can begin to see why the Warriors scoring wise only averaged 1 more point than their opponents. Committing less turnovers and garnering more offensive rebounds and steals would have increased our the scoring differential.

  48. I would rather see the Warriors play San Antonio than Denver. Although, we can score against Denver, Denver will kill up on the offensive boards (Faried) and in making steals.

    Both coaches so superior to Jackson that it makes the playoffs almost laughable.

    • San Antonio and Denver also have better, more experienced players and deeper benches than the Ws. In a year or two, this won’t necessarily be the case. And Mark Jackson and staff will be improving as coaches.

      Cut the Ws staff some slack… 1st playoff season experience this year, then retool next year. After next season, $33 million can vault (well-spent) this team into a serious contender.

      Don’t believe the Ws front office can do this?

      All this talk about Biedrins… And the TRADE…

      Look what ELSE has happened…

      Front office smartly locked in Stephen Curry for 4 years for 40 million. Absolute Highway Robbery! I smell 4 All-Star appearances coming. Max player, decent contract.

      Klay, Harrison, Ezeli, Green, are all locked up in inexpensive, favorable rookie deals – and they’re good, contributing, growing players!

      Landry and Rush signed for smart, frugal, and very reasonable contracts – short term.

      Team traded the popular Dorrell Wright for Jarrett Jack, a serious sixth man of the year candidate!

      This Ws team is on the rise. Watch out world!

      • don’t expect that full 33 m. to be reinvested in players. especially if they want to go back below the lux tax penalty line (a.k.a. soft cap). part of it will have to be reserved for a starting center unless there’s either a phenomenal, virtually miraculous improvement in bogut or ezeli, and if it’s in the former than he’ll be getting another fat deal. possibly they could sign one star level free agent in addition to the next starting center, but the market for both of those is very competitive.

        • Hope you’re happy, The Hat couldn’t help raising 10 kinds of hell over on Fast Break. Pretty sure the terms “integrity,” “journalistic ethics” and “team stenographer” came up a few times.

          The Hat’s not welcome over there anymore. Those smug, complacent boobs.

          • Give ‘em hell, Hat! Now tell TNT to show our damn game.

          • there’s a strange ethos at work over on the lauridsen blog, with most of the participants there espousing tolerance and free thinking, yet adopting a manner of group think as if they have an internal karl rove insisting they stay ‘on message’. if you care to contradict the message, you’ll be branded.

            cohan was scorched constantly because he too often failed to get the team into the postseason despite .50 of the league qualifying each year. in a normal grading curve, qualifying but winning only a game or two in the first round would earn about a C+, taking a one or two seed to seven games and losing perhaps a B-. lots of fans seem keen on celebrating lacob before he’s earned even a B.

          • You’re building a rep over there, Hat! And they seem to have absorbed our former little troll.

  49. OKC:

    OK, that was sobering, especially on national TV. Durant and Westbrook didn’t hurt us. The whole team did. Sefolosha and Martin and Ibaka hurt. While Lacob’s minion Meyers is telling us the team needs to position itself for a defining player, overlooked is their real need, depth. Bogut wouldn’t have made a difference. I wouldn’t mind more Ezeli feeds, but no center is going to make a difference. The team has many needs, and they can’t wait.

    What was most unsettling to me was they couldn’t get the offense going in the 2nd. half. I recall only a handful of unforced shots. Why not? I’ll defer to better minds. But this is what they need to work on the next week if they want to play more than four games in the playoffs.

    We got to see Nate, btw.

    • Was that blood on Curry’s knee? Was he hurt 1st Q while we were watching overtime Bulls/Knicks?

      Fantasy: Steve Kerr takes Fitz’s place and sits with Barnett.

  50. Pingback: Golden State Warriors v. Denver Nuggets Playoff Preview - Feltbot's Warriors Blog

  51. Warriors doing fine. Have better shooters than Denver. Playing at right pace for first half. Our asst. coaches cac hold there own with Karl.

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