Player Palooza: 2013 NBA Draft and Free Agency Thread

The least-anticipated NBA draft in memory occurs today, and free agency — which promises to be far more interesting this year — commences on July 1st. I will be posting reactions to the more interesting player moves in the comments.

530 Responses to Player Palooza: 2013 NBA Draft and Free Agency Thread

  1. in response to your comment on the previous thread about lacob’s distaste for going over the cap, the cap will be set next week and is likely to be in the low 50 m.’s. it isn’t really a cap now, but the equivalent of the standard minimum budget ; under the new c.b.a. teams are required to expend close to the cap line on player contracts. there isn’t any team that considers itself a serious contender that plans on closely adhering to the cap (the low 50 m. number). the lux tax threshold will be around $20 m. above the cap, and that’s what has lacob/myers dancing around the broken vodka bottles (courtesy of biedrins and s.jackson). it appears they want to have the option of making some big, transformative acquisition and it makes more sense to keep the option of exceeding the lux tax threshold for next summer, and avoid it this summer.

    • Thanks for clarifying!

      • L.Coon is the acknowledged cap-ologist. the estimates he and M.Stein have for 2013-’14 are a cap of 58.5 m., 71.6m lux tax threshold ; for 2014-’15, a bump to 62.1 and 75.7 m. the player salary obligations for the lacobites are about 70 m. with the contracts of jack and landry removed.

        the fans who hope to see bogut recover and thrive as a top five western conference center can also expect to see him and his agent set their contract expectations accordingly, knowing that there will be other teams willing to pay. conversely, if he gets re-injured, combined with any other significant injury loss on the team, the lacobites might do a reprise of the lottery campaign that snagged barnes.

        • I’ve been assuming the Ws will try to maintain their current level of achievement next season. No major moves, but simply trying to replace Jack and Landry with lower-budget players + a couple more inexpensive but usable bigs.

          But you raise an interesting possibility, moto. If Bogut gets injured again, he’d prove he wasn’t the answer for the future, he would probably still be tradeable (assuming he can play at all), and it might make sense for the Ws to move him. Depending on how poorly the team did without him and Ezeli, it wouldn’t necessarily even take an injury to anyone else for the team to decide the season is a bust, and that they should tank it. Throw in some down time for any other starter, and there’s no doubt the team would start throwing games. Perfectly legally, of course.

          Argh.

          I was happy believing the team would fersher try to repeat last year’s success. But you’re right. Stuff happens, and seeing our team make an honest effort to win next season is not a sure thing.

          • if lacob/myers do not secure quality reserves, they’re risking the health of lee and curry, who went over 2900 min. last season. d. lee had a career year, but is that level sustainable with neither landry nor ezeli for relief ? from his third season on, lee’s minutes were 2300 (starting only 29 games), 2800+, 3000+, 2600+(despite losing a chunk of his arm and the season), 2100+(short season and surgery in the lottery campaign), 2900 +.

            we can ponder all the variables without any resolution until we see the season opening roster, but we can probably get a very good notion of how the lacobites are disposed about another post season run from the kind of bench they construct beyond their top seven healthy (incl. bogut and lee) veterans and second year players.

    • I suppose another possible scenario is that Lacob will not go over the cap, patch up the squad as best as he can this summer, then aim for trades during the season, hoping to unload one of the expensive expiring contracts, maybe in a package deal (but who else can he package?). I suspect the odds of this, however, are slim to nil.

      I’ll have to leave this up to the more sophisticated Lacobologists, but I’d like to see an analysis of just why Lacob thought it so important to win this past season, then see if there will be any residual effects of that the coming season. Part of this desire comes from wanting to establish a reputation in the league, which can produce desirable effects in terms of trading players and building general credibility. Part, however, comes from that mysterious Lacob psyche, where I do not wish to tread, but he will not want to lose face. A mediocre to losing season, certainly a strong possibility, would damage both, given the attention span of the league, and perhaps be incentive to pull the trigger and spend some bucks this summer.

      Most likely, however, is that he, as ever, is looking ahead to the season after next, when the team will have money and he plans to work magic.

      • don’t make it too complicated. winning made a huge difference in revenue. another mediocre or losing season would also impair lacob’s Pave-the-Bay campaign. at the same time, they benefitted from some lucky guesses and two vets in contract seasons enjoying peak production, the departing jack and landry.

        not only did curry’s ostensible back up have a career year, but the franchise himself remained relatively healthy and set new career highs in production. the difference between their guess on bogut getting lucky or becoming unlucky was obviously slim, and wasn’t resolved until the playoffs. if myers doesn’t go 3 for 3 with the draft picks, they don’t stay above .500 long enough to make bogut’s contributions relevant. it looks like they’re relying on myers to have similar success with low cost free agents (who include bazemore), a low draft pick, or another low cost pick from last season, kuzmic.

      • I’ve forgotten how this works, but doesn’t measurement for cap tax kick in sometime midway through the season? I.e., he could pick up cheap players now and unload them later in the season? This is what happened with Jenkins and Tyler, right, and was the reason he unloaded him down the stretch?

        There’s an element of the unfathomable about Lacob that has to be factored in, which makes me reluctant to predict anything. The Bogut trade is just one example. Not only was he a risk in so many ways, and not just because of his health, but the trade was economically unsound.

        • their tax bill for the season’s contracts probably doesn’t get calculated until next spring. if players have guaranteed deals, though, cutting them doesn’t reduce the obligations. trading of course brings in other obligations, unless you have trade exceptions to work with that can be exchanged for draft picks. sometimes, a player can be traded for rights on a player not in the n.b.a., which would also be exempted, which is what NO did with jack in the multi team deal, wright going to Phi.

          with the exceptions so few, we can assume that any productive vet added to the roster will come at the cost of a player traded for him, or signing a free agent to a guaranteed contract. and the more useful vets will want a multi-year guarantee, which is why landry has departed.

          the bogut trade becomes more explicable if lacob and his brain trust had concluded that curry was more essential to the team than ellis, and that the ellis/curry combination was not only untenable, but was suppressing the development of curry. in hindsight that’s the company line, and we’ll never know if it was true when they pursued the deal. if lacob wanted rid of ellis because of the player’s harassment peccadilloes, that’s also in the ‘anecdotal evidence only’ column. their fondness for size and boards was already well established with the futile attempt to snag d.jordan, and the acquisition of k.brown. we don’t need to know more because bogut came through for them in the post season. personally speaking, don’t need to know more about lacob to dislike him.

          • Please stop on the Ellis trade. He would have opted out of his deal just like he has done with the Bucks and the Warriors would be stuck back at square 1, with Udoh, no Ezeli and probably without winning a first round series. Plus, as has been detailed on this blog many times, likely chemistry issues between the two guards and lesser development from Curry.

    • Steven will do just fine. But, doesn’t have much of a team.

  2. Warriors did great job getting Two first picks including swing player Roberson who can .both defend and extra possessions via offensive rebounds, steals, and blocked shots. His shooting just average. Foul shooting terrible-55 percent. Guess Warriors reading this site.

    Point guard looks good.

  3. It’s complicate, but I don’t think they got Roberson. Several deals were made.

    Nedovic:

    “Strengths: Nedovic has good size for the point guard position at 6-foot-4 and he can shoot the ball decently well. Nedovic has a number of years of professional experience under his belt, so he’s not going to be phased very much by the increase in competition. Nedovic has excellent ball handling skills and a great vision of the court.

    “Weaknesses: Nedovic has fit the mold of a true combo guard during his time overseas and although he can handle the ball and see the court well, he needs to refine his point guard skills a bit more. Nedovic needs to be able to handle quicker, more athletic guards in the NBA and that could be a challenge. Nedovic has a decent stroke from the outside, but he will need to shoot the basketball at a higher percentage if he hopes to make a roster spot.”

    Read more at http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2013/05/08/2013-nba-draft-prospect-profile-nemanja-nedovic-point-guard-lietuvos-rytas-serbia/?ricgpR7xBCQZ1cJt.99

    Sounds pretty stopgap to me.

    • From Comcast:

      “The Warriors reportedly bought the No. 26 pick in the first round from the Minnesota Timberwolves and then traded that pick to the Oklahoma City Thunder for the No. 29 overall pick. They then flipped the No. 29 overall pick to the Phoenix Suns for the No. 30 overall pick, the final pick of the first round.”

      Again, looks like they only got one pick, Nedovic. Curious, at least for this FO, they passed on a couple of centers.

      They could have gambled with Seth Curry.

      • if bigs aren’t from europa or in a college program under the right coach for more than one or two years, they’re not usually prepared to contribute as rookies. this was probably a factor behind drafting udoh, ezeli, and green, who all benefitted to varying degrees from staying in school. drafting a big who wasn’t ready to contribute would not remedy the loss of ezeli and landry.

        it’s amusing that someone named archie goodwin was passed along in the trade sequence to acquire a serb. that was the name of the fictional assistant of Nero Wolfe, who had connections in the Rex Stout novels with Montenegro, rather than Serbia.

        if the lacobites drafted nedovic only to get his rights and don’t intend to put him on their n.b.a. roster, his rights could be traded to a team that needs to reduce its cap number for a useful vet, which is why NO traded jack. o.t.o.h., if they decide to sign nedovic, first round picks get guaranteed deals under the c.b.a., and that contract would push them right up to the lux tax threshold for this season.

  4. Nedovic seems like work in progress.6’4″, good size. Good first step, can’t finish with off hand. Shoots 2’poorly and turns ball over a lot. . Has upside. Still need back up for Curry.

    Don’t know what we gave up for them.

  5. Looks like Warriors gave up future 2nd round pick and cash for Roberson and non productive SG Malcolm Lee coming off surgery.

  6. Warriors send M.lee to Suns.

  7. From Yahoo:

    “The Golden State Warriors made an inquiry with Boston on Garnett on Wednesday, but there was no traction, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.”

    Curious what they offered.

  8. warriorsablaze

    Pretty bizarre draft all around… not sure what the Warriors’ plan is here, but I have a feeling this isn’t really the entirety of it. I wonder if it will turn out to be the first cog in a more complex move… sort of like the maneuvers that brought Jack here. We’ll have to see.

  9. Hat and Felt – from the end of the previous thread… You guys both miss the point on jettisoning Tyler and Jenkins. The W’s stated at the time it was to not start the repeater tax counter going – where the penalties greatly increase for repeat offenders, as in 2 years in a row. This was a smart move for this year and next. They can go over the lux thresh this year by signing igoudala for his $8M and be at 78M for lux tax – over by 8 M. Next year they have Bogut, Jefferson and Biedrins coming off at about $30M – so they could avoid the lux threshold in Fall 2014 season and not incur the repeat tax offender kicker. I believe Lacob will go into lux tax, but I think he wants to avoid the repeater tax. If this is the case, then this year is the year to go over lux thresh because it will be relatively easy to get back under next year with the big 3 expirings…

    I do believe Lacob wants to win more than he wants to avoid losing money. He just can’t afford to lose a lot of money since his personal net worth is only $375M. Three or four years of losing $50M would give him serious pain and make him start liquidating certain investments. This is the problem with Ellison missing out.

    I was shocked to see the W’s ownership structure and to learn that Lacob only put in$50M and the NBA put in $150M. I have personally been involved with raising over $100M in VC money and spending that $100M. I know how VC’s operate. Whenever VC’s come into an early stage deal, they always have the next two rounds of financing set up. They call it dry powder. Once the company needs more financing, they can usually rape the company insiders – executive team that does not have money to continue to pony up so the exec team can be seriously washed out on subsequent rounds and VC’s usually dramatically increase their % ownership. The amounts all depend upon how well the mgmt team is doing and how much they want to keep them on board. The VC’s can just keep the exec team whole on their % ownership if they want to.

    So, given Lacob’s background and the obvious situation of owning a team, the most successful teams endure losing money but the net worth of the franchises are increasing dramatically and there are also huge tax breaks to pass around… Lacob must have come into this with a way to fund some losses. The problem is Lacob cannot personally fund the losses. Too bad. But as Hat has often pointed out, the upside on the franchise and market potential of a SF waterfront facility dwarf the potential operating losses. That said, someone needs to eat the operating losses for some number of (5) years… I also am sure that Lacob understands all the incremental revenue that successful teams generate from national games and playoffs and increased local tv contracts based upon the turnaround of the Celtics that he witnessed. My guess is that Lacob got dry powder commitments from most investors… Every VC deal is done this way. VC’s basically fund losses in hopes that companies can generate enough revenue growth to go public… Very similar situation to funding losses on a sports team to increase market value of team… Big difference is that when you raise VC money, the cash is sitting in corporate bank accounts to be spent by the exec team. In this case, the money raised was to go into Cohan’s bank account.

    My guess is he is dying to go over the lux threshold this year because if he goes over next year, how does he get back under to then avoid repeater tax… Lacob is not afraid to have losses, the losses must be manageable, progress must be evident(Lacob is wildly successful in this category) and the ownership group is supportive right now as the SF deal is looking good and Lacob has exceeded expectations… An oft repeated saying by VC’s is, do not pour on the gasoline until the fire is burning. In other words do not ramp up your spending until you see your business model works. Once it works, you have to ramp up, that is why you raise the money. So Lacob will be ready to spend…

    The other real question is, what exactly are the operating covenants that Lacob had to agree to in order to secure the financing that he did. Nobody loans $150M without having control over spending constraints…. A subject for future considerations…

    My question is just how much additional revenue can someone estimate they received from the playoff run and what will be the impact next season, assuming more national tv slots, etc….

    One final point, since the Warriors are an LLC, Lacob is not personally liable for any financial losses. So he does not personally care about losses. He cares about increasing value of the Warriors LLC by spending other people’s money. And we saw with Cohan, in the end, the increase in sports teams market price will dwarf the losses…

    • Thanks for the VC perspective Buck, very interesting. Having said that, if Lacob goes into the luxury tax this season, I will eat my shorts. In public.

      • lacob could dip into paying the tax, but only in a very controlled, limited amount that leaves myers wiggle room to erase with later transactions. he could be motivated by a need to flash his playoff success and demonstrate his intent to repeat it (as he’s said to the local media), and to make a gesture of good faith to the season ticket buyers, sponsors, and potential investors.

        • I don’t see a reasonable way the team can get UNDER the luxury tax this year. They’re already above it without a complete roster. The assets the team has – are cheap assets. And the high priced assets – few teams will want in return…

    • Buck, the team would not have paid the tax next season no matter what they did.

      “For 2014-15 teams pay … the repeater rate if they also were taxpayers in all of the previous three seasons.”

      After that, the lux tax line shouldn’t be a concern at all for awhile. They have over $35M coming off the books at the end of this upcoming season, and should easily be able to stay under the lux line if they needed to.

      Dropping Jenkins and Tyler saved the team a little money immediately, and added a 1-season margin to possible maybe-someday future luxury tax violations.

      My point was that running the team short-handed in this year’s playoffs reduced the team’s immediate chances for success for nothing more than a theoretical future profit safety margin.

      If they weren’t going to use Jenkins/Tyler, fine, let them go. But replace them. Only if you want to win, of course.

      http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm

    • Thanks for the inside analysis, buckaroo. As an outsider and a skeptic, I have to wonder about the projected value of a NBA franchise. Franchises have value because it’s a closed market and team rarely become available, and because people with a lot of money find them attractive. But are there/will there be that many buyers in the future? Only Lacob, Ellison, and I think a third group were interested in the Warriors, and only two groups in Sacramento. It took the NBA a long time, however, to find a buyer for New Orleans.

      It also sounds like the NBA has to do a lot on its own to make the deals work, $150m to the Warriors for example. I read earlier the NBA has a large pool of money for loans to teams, and I believe there are no strings attached.

  10. Myers could’t move Warriors into top 20. Seems obvious Warriors are stockpiling wings to set up another move. Now let’s if they can pull off a good move.

    Kings have moved ahead of Warriors. Philly and Orlando kicked ass.

  11. I found a lot of interesting and amusing moves to reflect on in today’s draft, but I think I’ll take a few days to read other analyses before commenting.

    My initial take on the Warriors’ draft pick Nedovic: If he can’t shoot (37%), then he’s not an NBA player, regardless of his other gifts. Very reminiscent of the rookie Jeremy Lin.

    Bob Myers says he’s “not a finished product.” I say: Yes, but he’s 22 years old.

    Myers also says that drafting Nedovic won’t impact the Warriors’ effort to resign Jarrett Jack. I say: Regardless, this draft pick makes it clear that the Warriors are preparing for life without Jack.

    It is completely obvious that the Warriors would have to enter the luxury tax to retain Jack. I simply don’t believe that Lacob is willing or able to do that, based on the evidence of the past 3 years.

    I think it’s also likely that Jack doesn’t want to return to the Warriors, despite his protestations: Quite naturally, he would prefer to be a starter, and the leader of his own team.

    • I’d have to agree with you here FB. Jack’s role likely has been replaced by a rookie G.

      As Monta knew when Curry was drafted when he said it wasn’t going to work…

      And Jeremy Lin and his shooting turned out to be just fine.

      RE: Landry – Time will tell if you’re right. I naively see the W’s FO going over the luxury tax if they could get land Landry with a raise to a little over $5 million.

      Or not. Lol!

    • Maybe Nedovic is only an insurance policy in case Jack falls through, but that means they are seriously contemplating that possibility. They went through a bit of trouble to get the pick, and the only advantage he offers over the others is that he has some experience. They are looking for someone who might be able to step in and run the team, the best possible option given their limited resources.

      They really need a third guard as well, and if they had more depth and resources now, they would have been looking at affordable—and expendable—prospects they might have been able to develop, Siva maybe. But they really need potential players at the other positions as well. They got into the draft because they needed a point guard.

  12. Incidentally, someone argued the Jackson/Jefferson trade with the Spurs was good because the Warriors got a draft pick—Ezeli. But they were able to buy a first round pick last night for only $600k.

    • last year’s draft class was hyped far more than this year’s, and SA’s pick was acquired before draft day. the draft pick purchased for tyler in the second round was also much more costly than this year’s pick at 26.

      • @rgg – Comparing apples with oranges. Lol! Huge difference in draft year talent, cap situation, and CBA environment. And the cost of dumping potential W’s locker-room cancer – Stephen Jackson – for a more palatable vet’s extra year at $11 million.

        Fact: The W’s 2013 1st round pick cost $1.6 million cash, a second round pick in a better draft (say $1M-$2 million more), plus taking on injured Malcom Lee’s last year of $760k – in the worst talent draft in a decade or two per many “experts.”

        Kudos to W’s GM Myers – in bartering a minor miracle – in two additional trades down to $600k cumulative and dumping Malcom Lee’s deal!

        2012 NBA draft was much more loaded with talent – per the experts – which is how the W’s hit on 3/4 picks so far with Kuzmic (sp?) coming this summer perhaps.

  13. I’m curious what input Larry Riley had in last night’s proceedings, though can’t find any reference. He was the one, after all, who scouted Green and Ezeli last year.

    • if you care to hear some of riley’s thoughts on this draft, he chatted with tolbert yesterday prior to the hoopla. available on knbr.com among tolbert’s ‘podcasts’.

    • Riley has many connections with other front offices in the league. Nedovic for example worked out for Mil and was scouted extensively by them ; one of the GS senior scouts (associated w. both nelson and riley) worked in Mil for years. their relationship with F.Saunders in Min was cited by Myers as a factor in being able to purchase the pick.

      • @Moto
        Three draft day trades yesterday? All at the last minute? Amazing to me.

        Jerry West (Mr. Basketball), Harris (GM), Riley (GM), Lacob (Celtics ownership) and now Myers (Player agent) – all bring a lot of different NBA relationships and experience to the table which seems to be very valuable when trades need to be done…

  14. “The European Derrick Rose.”

  15. We’ll know before mid-season if the Warriors traded for and selected the wrong guy. We never even got to know Roberson. Lacob is all about saving money. Feel like I’m watching Comedy Central.

  16. The Warriors should pay the luxury tax and sign Jack. The question to be answered is will Lacob do so? I think he will or find another way to sign Jack. But he also needs to address the Warriors front court needs. In the end, will the roster next year be worse or better than last year s roster?

    • Agreed… I was optimistic before about the W’s going into luxury tax, but now? Not so much…

      I think the trade deadline will be very interesting with the W’s able to trade their 2014 first round pick… And the huge expirings in a year where teams need to clear space for the big-name free agents.

  17. Bob Myers seems like a pleasant fellow, but I’d rather have Orlando’s Bob Hennigen as our GM. Since discarding Howard, he’s running circles around Myers. Let’s see who has the better record at the end of this season.

    • Orlando’s GM is doing a great job. Otis Smith really jacked up that team’s future for a few seasons.

      Since Howard discarded the Magic, the Orlando Magic has had the worst record in the NBA winning 20 games in the cupcake East.

      And if Andrew Bogut were healthy for those two games against the W’s, Orlando wouldn’t have even won 20 games… Lol!

      You’re selling GM Myers WAY short…

  18. In my humble opinion, If we had traded Ellis for Ryan Anderson, and had Udoh instead of Ezeli (who played subpar all year for the Warriors as they were outscored with him on the court), and used K Brown’s and expiring contract and other free agent money to sign Jack and Landry, we have made it out the first round, and has a better chance succeeding in the second round. Please don’t argue we would have been better off with Barnes over Anderson?

    But, we got Bogut, whose health next year for the third year in a row is questionable and we have R. Jefferson isn’t played on our roster.

  19. This was the draft to replace Bogut after next season. He had the opportunity to get a better center than Ezeli. He would have if he traded Barnes for a top 15 pick. His failing to do so will likely cost the Warriors.

    The Warriors need two more bigs. Now the Warriors are likely to get only one.

    • if you’re so positive that any of the lottery centers will be better n.b.a. players than barnes, you know better than most of the professionals in the bidness. Phi traded an all star point guard for one of those lottery centers, and there are plenty of questions about the player.

      several teams appear to be preparing for serious lottery campaigns in a race to the bottom of the standings. are you sure that you wouldn’t prefer to wait for next summer, with a better budget, bogut’s condition clarified, and a stronger draft class to work with ?

  20. From what I’m reading, Nedovic could have been picked later in the second round…

    Perhaps the genius angle of this trade was to get in the first round, late…

    So that the W’s 2014 first rounder would be tradeable (there’s some NBA rule where you can’t trade 1st rounders in successive seasons).

    Now Myers can package the 2014 first rounder at the trade deadline. Perhaps to entice a team to take on a crap expiring contract. Time will tell.

    • Very interesting thought.

      • If they had trade in mind, wouldn’t they have gone after a more attractive player? It still sounds to me like they’re scrapping for a PG.

    • according to the woeyr brass, they had the impression that Cle was very interested in Nedovic for the second round pick that came immediately following at #31. Cle did end up drafting a 2-guard there, from Cal. some scouts had placed Nedovic in the mid-lower second round, but it’s irrelevant if the guy can play and they didn’t want to tempt Cle.

      your regurgitation of the Stepien rule, named after the former Cle owner who’d trade every first round pick, came out garbled. it applies to trading consecutive *future* first round picks. once this year’s draft was concluded, those picks weren’t future picks, and any team that had not already traded away their 2015 first round pick could do so with their 2014 pick, including the woeyrs. the Bos-NJ trade specifically traded alternating year first round picks so it would conform to the rule.

      • Well said – sounds reasonable to me…

      • Sorry. I couldn’t quite follow that.

        They did trade away their 2013 first round pick. So, if they hadn’t made a deal, they wouldn’t have been allowed to trade their 2014 pick until after the 2014 draft. Is that correct?

        Maybe there’s some ambiguity in the language. Maybe you’re saying that the only thing they can’t do it trade two first rounders in a row for drafts that haven’t already happened. So, that would mean if they didn’t have a 2013 first rounder, they could still trade the 2014 first round, as long as they waited until after the 2013 draft to do it. Is that it?

        I’m thinking that if Nedovic is the answer, the question might have been not “Who is going to be our backup PG?”, but, rather, “What is the cheapest way to get into the first round so that we can trade next year’s pick?”

        • The negative venom spewing here towards anything W’s is comical. And VERY premature. Every comment seems quite negative. Where the balance??? You’d think from these posts that the W’s were the worst team in the NBA… Lol!

          The FA period hasn’t even begun yet…

          W’s GM Myers is NOW on record stating that the team may likely have a payroll of $76-$78 million – which is WELL OVER the luxury tax – and could go higher.

          Nedovic is a prospect – barely a first rounder in a crap talent draft. Saying he doesn’t have much of a left hand is factual – but lots of good NBA players don’t have much for left hands… Monta Ellis and Jeremy Lin both play with TWO right hands off the dribble – even now! Perhaps Nedovic is explosive enough to get away with this as well – time will tell. And many posters here – threw Jeremy Lin under the bus – by saying that he can’t ever shoot (including myself) – and they were all wrong…

          And Dwight Howard is the best defensive center in the NBA… Playing on team in kaos, injured, with two coaches, and no training camp – avg 18, 12, 3??? People have lost sight of his talent…

        • sorry guy, but the key phrase in the Stepien rule prohibits trades of consecutive future first round picks. once the 2013 draft was done, those picks obviously can’t be considered future picks, and the trade that was originally for m.williams involving a future first round pick was at last completed. drafts 2014 onward are future picks. they can trade the 2014 pick, or the 2015 pick for that matter, at any time now, but not both because they’d be in consecutive years. just check out the trade just completed between Bos and NJ involving garnett, pierce, terry in exchange for future first round picks. the picks are in alternating, not consecutive years.

  21. Kuzmic has been scratched from the summer league with a bone bruise on his ankle. Nedovic might have a schedule conflict with his commitments to his national team, so he might also be unable to attend. the tentative roster has been posted on r.simmons’ blog, sfgate.com

  22. Scalabrine?

    • he’s getting interviewed for a coaching position. would he be the free throw tutor for bogut, biedrins, and ezeli ?

  23. The Warriors are not a balanced team. With Ezeli out, Bogut’s health unclear, Biedrens being Biedrens, and the Warriirs losing Landry, the Warriors are in a world of hurt.Also, Thompson and Barnes being lightweights simply don’t work. Barnes is not our future SF.

    You always have to build inside out. The Warrios seemed to lose sight of that in the draft. The question is not whether the center we would have drafted would have been better than Barnes, but whether the player would help the Warriors more than Barnes. The Ewarriors can hardly afford to have a bad year and wait till next year. That may occur given who the Warriors drafted this year.

    Jefferson and Rush can adequately replace Barnes. Warrios still have room to improve the roster, but money will have to spend money to do so.

    The Warriors only did poorly under Nellie for three years due to injuries. His teams played as hard as they could given the circumstances. Every time Lacob says he has changed the culture of the team is he full of crap. He still hasn’t even drafted a player as good as Curry. The Warriors were only a slightly above average team last player, and that was largely due to Curry’s going off on many nights along with D.Lee.

    • Clearly you’re missing the hidden potential of Andris Biedrins playing in a contract year… I predict Andris’ 2013-2014 PER of 10+. Lol!

  24. Every Western conference team that drafted improved their respective rosters way more than the Warriors.

  25. I was hoping the Ws would make more deals at the draft to fill critical holes. Nedovic might help, but he’s not a step-in replacement for Jack. And we did nothing to replace Landry and Ezeli. As things stand this minute, the Ws lineup for next year has less experience and even less depth than this past season. It’s not too late for Myers to sign some veteran help this summer. Let’s hope he does.

    If not, it’s going to be an extremely long season for the starters, most of whom played too many minutes this year – and may not physically be able to repeat that kind of workload next season.

    • It’s still way too early in the cycle to get up or down… the next two weeks+ will be the time for some action. Get your popcorn ready!

      Last year at this time, Dorrell Wright was still a Warrior/Jarrett Jack still a Hornet and Rush AND Landry – weren’t even signed yet until after all the other names were signed.

      In Jerry West I Trust.

      • Celtic Pride

        You “Warriors” were so lucky last year, and you don’t even know it. Lucky for you Portland, Memphis, and Denver going into a tailspin and the Jazz are flaat! Next year will be tough for Joe and his crew.

  26. Lots of good, cheap players out there coming up in free agency.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8589693/nba-free-agents-2013-2014

  27. If the Warrior had gone big in the draft, they probably should have stayed at 26!and taken 6’9″ Jean-Charles.

    Will be interesting to see if Nedovic can develop doing lay-ups with his left-hand. I assume he’s gong to be a good player.

    It seems fairly clear the Warriors will go take on the luxury tax in attempt to sign Jack.

    The open question is whether they be able to replace Landry and another big man via free agency or trade?

    With Jerry West pushing for the Warriors to draft Thompson over Leonard it’s time to stop extolling placing trust in West.

    • you might have their plan inverted, because decent vet bigs are scarcer and often more costly than decent vet reserve guards. the big factor hidden to us is what jack wants for his career, and if he’s offered a starter’s job and four years of security that’s not something the lacobites can counter. (in the western conference alone there are several vacancies, and he’d get starter’s minutes in LA as nash’s alternate). they’ll probably be forced to get a good vet reserve and pass the tax threshold to do so, but the market will be a big factor on which deficiency takes greater priority. ezeli’s injury combined with lee getting surgery two consecutive seasons could easily push the decision toward the big, with a cheaper patch for the guard spot.

  28. I feel like stirring the pot today.

    In order to ensure an OK season next year, cover themselves for possible injuries, and build for the future, the Warriors should trade Bogut and try to get two good players with midrange salaries to build depth and allow flexibility and growth—a sizable two-way 4 as the top priority, who might stand in as center with Lee, back him up, and hold his own at 4 when Lee plays center, then a versatile, larger defensive 2, both with experience, though that still leaves questions at PG. I haven’t studied available players nor know the ins and outs of trades. Obviously, they’d have to make do with a center and hope the best for Biedrins and Kuzmic, that Ezeli can return for the season. Yet that’s not far away from where they were this past season. If they had this plan in mind earlier, they could have gone after one of the available centers in the draft.

    But they’d have to be able to do something with $14million, Bogut’s contract, and an expiring one at that. And what team wouldn’t want a top 5 center, especially those who lose out on the Howard sweepstakes? He’d be a difference maker immediately, and they’d be in a good position to keep him the following season. Also he will have had plenty of time to recover from that freak injury.

    I mention Bogut because he might be the most tradable asset, the one who’d free up the most cash, and, again, has an expiring contract.

    The thing is, I don’t buy the description above at all and don’t think anyone would bite, which should get us thinking. The odds Bogut will play a full season next year, that he won’t suffer relapses on his ankle or other injuries, aren’t good. They can’t be better any time after that, certainly not to justify a large salary and multi year contract. That should be sufficient reason for the trade.

    But I would argue that he isn’t the right player for the team and its talent anyway, given his offensive liabilities, that they have much greater needs, that depth would make up for whatever they lose from Bogut when he can play.

    • just going by what we’ve observed this past season and post season, we should not expect a major re-set like trading bogut until they’ve logged in enough games to establish whether he can sustain enough to make them contend again for the bottom post season seeds.

      they were lucky last season while bogut was decommissioned that the two new vets and three draft picks sufficed to keep them above .500. we’re looking at somewhat of an inverse situation, with ezeli and bogut swapping places. they’re not the only team lacking quality reserves — Por refused to bottom out last season with that predicament because they got lucky with lillard. there are plenty of fans throughout the various blogs who’ve convinced themselves that thompson and barnes have all star potential, and that’s part of the luck, along with bogut’s presumed health of course, that the team will be selling at the beginning of the season.

      the competing teams have their own heaps of unresolved problems of course, looking at the same draft class coming next summer and the same rota of free agent possibilities maturing at the same time. they’ll be looking to deal in Jan ’14, and the lacobites will be deciding between repeating as quasi-contenders or returning to the lottery.

  29. Off topic, but it kind of tells the story of the Warriors the last decades. Cf:

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7714701/how-annoy-fan-base-60-easy-steps

  30. At this point the W’s upside is terrific. If they can resign Landry and Jack (or replace them effectively), if everybody is healthy and if Nedovic can contribute backup minutes at PG, this is a contender for the title.

    But, the downside is at least as extreme. If Bogut’s ankle doesn’t respond over the summer, he could retire. Rush’s injury might take 2 years. Lee ought to be healthy, but surgery doesn’t come with a guarantee. Ezeli could be out until the spring. Curry is still prone to rolling his ankles. Jack and Landry could prove impossible to replace. Draymond may never find his shot. Biedrins could be his usual self. And, that’s a bad team.

  31. George Zimmerman criminal trial.

    The news media is not reporting the hey evidence in the case.

    The most significant evidence in this case is that T. Martin was killed 15 or more feet from the sidewalk where his body was found face down on the grass.

    As such the case should not turn on whether T. Martin Marin had slammed his Hess on the sidewalk. As it seems obvious the parties had left the sidewalk and continued fighting on the grass. As such, Zimmerman was not in any eminent danger on the grad as he may or may have been when he was on the grass. Clearly he used excessive force by shooting Martin. even if Martin was on top of Zimmerman on the grass.

    And Zimmerman in his statement to police twice said that Zimmerman sat up before he shot which would seem to indicate that Zimmerman may have been on top at the te of the shooting on the grass.

  32. Here’s Lance Armstrong interviewed by Le Monde….
    LM: In its report, the USADA accuses you of using “the most sophisticated, professional and effective doping program in the history of sports…”
    LA: The USADA report is complete bullshit. We saw that the Puerto system was a hundred times more sophisticated. Our system was very simple, very conservative, not evil at all like they said. History will show that this was just a ‘talking point’ for USADA. By the way, what other teams did the USADA investigate? If there aren’t any, then how can they know our system was the most sophisticated? It doesn’t make any sense.

  33. GM Lacob, spokesmodel Myers and Mark Jackson have set up a meeting in LA with Dwight Howard next week.

    So pathetic, traveling to meet him after his agent sent word he wouldn’t be visiting them. Just as pathetic as those begging billboards the Lakers have erected.

    Why are they doing this? For PR purposes? For the ability to say they did everything in their power to get him? Everyone in the league knows Lacob’s promises regarding spending money to win are an utter charade. What elite free agent with a desire to win would ever choose this franchise?

    Has the ex-wife’s trust signed off on this?

    • Another question: What would they do with Howard even if they got him?

      This really is pathetic. See youtube @29.

      But maybe they’ll get t-shirts that say “We Tried to Get Dwight” or maybe just “We Tried.” Maybe they could even sell them at Oracle, blue letters on yellow. Or yellow on blue?

      • howard’s agents and/or posse started to circulate critiques of LA and other suitors [not sure he wants to play robin to bryant’s batman, not sure about d’antoni’s offense, or mchale’s system in Hou ]. it sounds like he wants a principal role in the offense, wherever he plays. suppose he played w. lee and curry — he’d have to be the third or fourth option. if lee was off-loaded to pay him, the offense would see a net loss going from lee to howard, and spacing becomes problematic if bogut and howard are both on the court.

        Orl struggled to find a budget after paying howard sufficient to pay quality players for his ‘supporting cast’. (in GS, howard would be the supporting cast). and GS hasn’t been a serious contender that could attract the quality vets to play at a discount, like Mia or Dal. a GS roster w. howard vs. western conference competition probably can’t even match what van gundy accomplished for Orl. howard belongs in Tx or Atl, where the fans take football more seriously than hoops. Olajuwon and third year forward C.Parsons are both part of the committee meeting w. howard for the Hou presentation.

    • In discussing the possibility of the Ws keeping Jack and Landry, Zach Lowe recently said it would be hard for him to imagine the Ws inflating their annual payroll to $85M.

      Now replace Landry and Jack’s salary with Howard’s. That boosts the annual payroll over $100M. Then add even more payroll for replacements for Landry and Jack, because Howard isn’t interested in playing for a fraction of a team.

      Howard in a Ws uniform seems unlikely.

      Har de har har.

    • bloodsweatndonuts

      It makes sense that Lacob is bringing the people that possess two of the traits he lacks most that would come in handy when trying to woo someone: looks and charm.

      Now all he needs to do is hire some humility and a GM.

  34. Hilarious boosterism from Kawakami. If he isn’t paid by Lacob, he should be.

    Read the drivel if you want, but here’s the short version:

    “Lacob’s deep pockets got us a great player! Myers worked deals to get him for a great bargain! Only 600k! What smart guys!”

    Um.

    a) Nedovic may not even play in the US next year. He’s still under contract in Europe. To get him into a Ws uniform, the team will have to buy out his current contract. And pay him a salary too! If he plays for the Ws at all, the price tag will be far more than $600k. More like $1.6M.

    b) Nedovic is NOT an either/or replacement for Jack. His shooting sucks. He doesn’t have a left hand. It’s not clear he’s an NBA quality player at all. And he ain’t an NBA veteran. As a replacement for Jack, Bazemore looks better than Nedovic. Taller, quicker, more experienced, far better D, and he already knows all the plays and players. Not to mention he’s actually under contract.

    c) If Lacob has such deep pockets, why didn’t the Ws also pick up a big or two? Landing an iffy, small “project” like Nedovic solves nothing. Did the Tyler experience sour the front office on young bigs? TWO semi-promising four-year college centers were drafted after Nedovic. And Bogut ain’t getting younger.

    Of course it ain’t over until the fat lady dunks on Myers, but… she’s limbering up and she looks mean.

    The real story of the Ws draft is that the team whiffed. The story on Kawakami is that he used to be a journalist, and isn’t now.

    http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2013/06/27/the-wheelin-dealin-warriors-buy-in-and-play-some-aggressive-draft-poker/

    • From TK:

      At the very least, the whole process illustrates three solid things about this front office:

      * The willingness to spend money and desire to be aggressive about it;

      * The spotlighting of exactly who they want and the sense to go get him;

      * And the ability to view the panorama of the moment and make moves within that.
      ———
      Sheesh. The third suggests TK has picked up the lingo.

      Hey, your comment there hasn’t been pulled—yet.

  35. Maybe the Warriors should have drafted 6’11” three point shooter Ryan Kelly. Lakers drafted him. Hard to believe he’s not better than Landry and hits the three ball. We lack a PF who can hit the three ball.

    Rgg: Yes, Bogut should be traded if anyone would take him. But, Lacob doesn’t want to expose himself as an idiot which he is by trading for him in the first place.

    Wanting Howard shows how out of touch the Warriors. If done, goodbye David Lee.

    Starting to think the NBA game has passed West by. Don’t think he hits the spread offense.

    • There isn’t a chance in hell, of course, Lacob would consider trading Bogut. The real question next season is how many games Bogut has to play for Lacob to think he would be worth gambling on again and resign. And I fear the number will be low.

  36. I sense a fixation here. Lacob is entering his 4th season. Has he ever signed or made a serious play at any player other than a center, with a contract of $5m or more? Jack at $5.4m, but he was forced into this and got a deal yet is prepared to let him go, apparently. And Curry was resigned, at a bargain. Anyone else?

    Signed:
    Brown at $7m, right?
    Biedrins, not amnestied $9m
    Bogus, $14m (plus J’s contract)

    Sought:
    Chandler at 12m? I’ve forgotten.
    Jordan, 10-11m
    Plus an attempt at Gasol and probably others.
    And Howard again, for the 3rd or 4th time at god knows how much.

    • Lacob now has this repeating pattern of promoting the huge effort of his front office team. I think he imagines fans will cut them some slack if they can show they’re trying. “They may have whiffed, but at least they took a swing.” Or something.

      Not this fan.

      If Myers can assemble the winning pieces, I’d be delighted to read about him making deals from his beach cabana in Cancun. And if he doesn’t give Curry & Co. the supporting players they need, I don’t care how many buckets of sweat they mop out of his office every day. Or whether he screwed up the courage to ask Betsy Sue to the prom (begged for an interview with a famous player).

      • another reason to be thankful that the Sac brand gets to keep its name and location — Ranadive doesn’t have to listen to lacob’s patronizing b.s.

  37. How Can We Top This

    or

    Another Reason Why We Shouldn’t Have Let Lin Go

    “The Rockets will sell Howard on a four-year, max contract with advantageous Texas tax rules, a roster constructed for championship contention, an offense designed with him as a cornerstone and an imprint into China and the Far East that could hold immense marketing and endorsement possibilities for him.

    “Because of their ties to Yao Ming and now Jeremy Lin, the Rockets are the most televised NBA franchise in China, with data showing that nearly 300 million regular-season viewers watched Houston on CCTV 5 this season. For Howard, the Rockets sell will assuredly be how much more lucrative sneaker, appearance and marketing possibilities will be for him in a basketball-driven part of the world.”

    just in from AW at Yahoo

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba–dwight-howard-s-free-agent-courtship-to-begin-with-rockets-as-frontrunners-023015124.html

    Man, this is a funny business.

    • another dimension of shallowness and superficiality for howard to explore — he can be the avatar for speeding the conversion of another billion people into international glitter goods and media consumers.

      • Imagine a sign and trade of Dwight Howard and Jeremy Lin/Asik?

        Lin teams with coach D’Antoni in LA for Linsanity 2 with Asik/Gasol as the two centers and Lin/Nash as two PGs!

  38. The negative venom spewing here towards anything W’s is comical. And VERY premature. Every comment seems quite negative. Where the balance??? You’d think from these posts that the W’s were the worst team in the NBA… Lol!

    The FA period hasn’t even begun yet…

    W’s GM Myers is NOW on record stating that the team may likely have a payroll of $76-$78 million – which is WELL OVER the luxury tax – and could go higher.

    Nedovic is a prospect – barely a first rounder in a crap talent draft. Saying he doesn’t have much of a left hand is factual – but lots of good NBA players don’t have much for left hands… Monta Ellis and Jeremy Lin both play with TWO right hands off the dribble – even now! Perhaps Nedovic is explosive enough to get away with this as well – time will tell. And many posters here – threw Jeremy Lin under the bus – by saying that he can’t ever shoot (including myself) – and they were all wrong…

    And Dwight Howard is the best defensive center in the NBA… Playing on team in kaos, injured, with two coaches, and no training camp – avg 18, 12, 3??? People have lost sight of his talent…

    • just so we’re clear, taking a ‘wait and see’ position isn’t quite ‘negative venom’. about his team’s budget, what else could myers possibly say with his contract obligations already at 70m. and last season’s three most important bench players erased ?

      being right or wrong about players in the past who had yet to play, or played only minimally in the n.b.a., for most of us amateur, dilettante talent evaluators, means nothing except the likelihood we’ll be wrong or right in the future, and we know it. their investment in nedovic is speculative, and hardly grounds to gush praises for their initiative or for his ‘potential’. the media gushed about how buying tyler’s draft rights was evidence of the new ownership’s initiative, but his guaranteed contract became a factor in pushing lin out the door. generally, guards or wings like lin or nedovic who’ve demonstrated a foundation of ball skills, hoop sense, and defense have improved those areas more often, compared to the bigs with deficient ball handling, rebounding, or trouble remembering assignments who often struggle to improve them.

      howard’s capacity to adapt his game to what his team needs, considering how much he’s focused on what his next team will do for him, doesn’t appear likely to improve, either. for most fans, when a new player puts on the home jersey, it’s all good. for me, seeing howard in a GS jersey will probably decrease my interest in the team. b.griffin has plenty of talent too, but he would be equally unappealing.

    • Jeremy Lin can’t shoot, which is why he was frequently benched in the fourth quarter last season.

      Dwight Howard WAS the best defensive center in the NBA. Now he’s a 6-9″ player who had nothing but athleticism to commend in his game, coming off major back surgery.

    • Everyone here, I’m sure, is high on the Warriors. That’s why we watch the games and keep coming here. It’s the owner several of us struggle with, a man who got the job without significant knowledge of or experience in the game or vetting by any criteria. If there were a personalty test, he wouldn’t have passed it. He just put the money up, with the help of the NBA and his ex’s trust. He doesn’t think we are real fans, btw, and doesn’t respect his fan base.

      Maybe it’s the Scotch in me, but he’s wasted tens of millions of his precious cap without results. If they do go over the cap 6-8m, he’ll be paying that much again in tax, right? That to maintain status quo, if the team is lucky. Aside from Curry, he hasn’t invested any serious money in any player other than his centers, about most of whom serious questions have been raised.

      A quick aside. How much better would the team have been several years back if they had picked up a 4 on the order of Landry instead of Kwame Brown? And the following year and now, if he did prove himself and stayed?

      I didn’t mind the Lin acquisition, however, because it was a good story and because he was so cheap. They had room on the roster. There was no reason then to think he’d develop further, and I still see him as a third guard, but they could have run the experiment another year or so. But his small contract had to go so they could pursue Jordan.

    • with your high regard for howard’s talent, let’s not forget another that he’s taken great care to conceal. he’s fathered at least six children with six different mothers, possibly as many as eight. two of the kids were born within six months of each other in 2010. in most or all instances, when he’s arranged child support payments, the mother has signed non-disclosure documents barring her from revealing the identity of howard, so we only have estimates to work with.

      some fans thought howard would fit right in with the preacher’s bible slinging clubhouse. when howard was a rookie, he expressed his wish to have the n.b.a. logo changed from west’s silhouette to a cross. one of the quips attributed to the non-believer Confucius goes something like — ‘have never met a man who would chose correctness over sexual attraction ‘.

      • That’s the best thing I’ve ever read attributed to Confucious.

        • westerners who depend solely on translations of non-western languages can’t always pick up the religious biases built into the translations. that particular quotation won’t become popularized because of the bias against mentioning stuff like sexual desire. but there’s also a problematic word involved ; my choice of translating it was ‘correctness’. the original ‘yi’ often gets translated to ‘righteousness’ or alternately, ‘morality’. both with problematic religious associations in the judeo-xstyin steeped western mind set.

          to repeat arthur c. clarke’s observation — ethics getting hijacked by religion was the great tragedy of western civilization.

          • I’m giving Howard the benefit of the doubt given his crap situation in Lakerland. He’s an aloof-type guy, but I’d deal with it. I expect a monster season from Dwight next season when he’s had a training camp and good health.

            Lin shot well during NY Linsanity – thus, the big contract but I admit I haven’t watched him play at all in Houston.

  39. If Howard would agree to come for 4 years, Lacob would probably offer the Lakers D,Lee and Bogut, and try to entice him with the fact that Warriors will have more money next year that will enable them to sign good free agents.

    • I’d do that deal – in a heartbeat!

      Jack, Curry, Rush, Klay, Harrison, Green, and Dwight Howard? I wouldn’t miss a minute of the game.

  40. If Lacob fails to do a deal for Howard, will he next turn his sights on Bynum? Maybe so as Lacob loves injured players who use to be decent.

    • bloodsweatndonuts

      Let’s be fair, he’s going after “injured players who used to be much-better-than-decent”. They were in the Brandon Roy hunt too.

      I’ll start to worry when he flies Franco Finn and Bob Fitzgerald out to try to lure the tattered remains of Greg Oden. Oden would be classified under “injured players who used to supposed to be much better than decent if he ever wasn’t injured”.

    • both ellis and jack could end up in the western conference — more than a few teams need vet combo guards capable of 20+ points any given night.

  41. Jack deserves all the credit and praise he’s received here. I still wish there were another option in the wings. SI makes this appraisal:

    “Jack’s knack for generating offense comes at a cost, though. Unseen passing lanes and unfulfilled alternatives are often bypassed in favor of a tough, contested shot. He finds angles into the lane but often fails to locate any teammate who isn’t immediately available in his field of vision. He makes some nice drop-passes to big men around the rim, but otherwise Jack doesn’t stray far from his immediate focus on the basket.

    “That’s a manageable limitation in some cases and a disabling flaw in others — a divide dependent largely on how a team chooses to use Jack. He’s a fine supporting piece but could run his team into middling efficiency if the roster lacks suitable ball-handling alternatives.”

    http://nba.si.com/2013/06/29/2013-free-agency-al-jefferson-andrew-bynum-monta-ellis/

    • the entire article you’ve linked is worth a read, with three woeyr fan favorites carrying that caution flag — jack, ellis, and al jefferson.

      • The last rumor I heard about Ellis was Dallas. Reportedly, 2-3 Mavs were begging team management to look into acquiring him, whether or not they could get Howard.

        And that’s the thing about Ellis – while the standard “expert media opinion” on him is “poor efficiency and no D,” most players who’ve played against him want to play with him instead.

        The fact is, Ellis has played with terribly limited teams ever since the Ws broke up “We Believe.” Some teams where he was nearly the ONLY scoring threat, so he was often double and triple-teamed. That kinda works against one’s offensive efficiency numbers.

        As for D, I’ll take Ellis’ over Curry’s anytime. And I don’t hear people badmouthing Curry over it.

        As we all know, teams and coaches and systems matter. Put Ellis on the Spurs and you won’t see much more of Ginobili. Put him on the Knicks and they’d have beaten Chicago in the playoffs. Put him on a Bucks team with a lousy coach, a weird mix of talent, and tons of injuries – and Ellis looks like he’s trying too hard on O and not enough on D, while playing 40+ min./game. Just as he did in his last 2 years with the Ws.

        EVERY basketball player is a role player. Give Ellis a single simple role playing with other competent role players (and a decent coach), and he’s a top-5 guard. And, ha HA, next year he really truly is going to be better than D Wade.

  42. The Warriors outscored their opponents by 1. 7 points. That’s enough to bring him back especially he’s not a starter. The Warriors would have outscored their points by more points if he had started. As the Warriors only outscored their opponents by only 1.8 points with Thompson. starting. At the very least Barnes should not have been starting as the Warriors did much better with Jack playing then they did with Barnes on the court.

  43. 82 games shows how the Warriors did when either Jack, Thompson, and Barnes were on the court.

    President Obama allowing the US Justice Dept.. to filevcriminal charges against Snowden in Alexandria, Va., a State where most of intelligence operatives virtually insures a tainted jury poll and thus an unfair trial. It’s bad enough President Obama allowed of did not correct our top intelligence operative to lie to Congress by saying that millions of citizen telephone records were”unwittingly collected when they were intentionally collected. Why is he not being prosecuted? So much for equal justice under the law.

  44. Hat: if you look at The Warriors stats stats you’ll see that by Jack’s name that’ve the Warriors outscored their opponents by 1. 7 points for every 48 minutes that Jack was on the court.82 games.

  45. Hot rumors:

    Houston aggressively trying to dump Jeremy Lin for a player who can shoot (Calderon).

    The Knicks are close to acquiring Andrea Bargnani, presumably to play stretch four alongside Tyson Chandler. That might actually work. And given Melo’s health woes, he might not be able (or willing) to play there any more himself. That makes the Knicks defensive sieves at 3 and 4, but with Chandler in the middle, the supercharged offense should outstrip the defensive liabilities.

    Defense doesn’t win championships. Positive point differential wins championships.

    The completely unforeseen negative (by the Knicks and the media): Both Melo and Bargnani are blackholes, who would rather chew old socks than pass. That will destroy the Knicks in the playoffs.

    • it’s probably a done deal, NY getting bargnani for camby and the three pt. specialist novak + a draft pick. they might use a stoudemire/bargnani rotation at the four. probably planning a major re-boot when several heavy contracts including those two expire. ujiri in Tor is already shaking things up and the entire roster will be expendable including r.gay.

      • Andrea Bargnani? I’ve never been very high on this player and am glad he’s not traded for Lee!

        His rebounding is abysmal… He’s definitely a 7-footer in height, but looks and plays like a wing/SF. And his shooting numbers year to year are pretty erratic. A spread the floor shooter shooting 30% (last 2 slumping/injury seasons) won’t cut it. I’d rather play Draymond Green, who can do more things.

        Andrea can’t guard the worst player on most teams. Exception? Andrea can actually shut down Andris Biedrins! Lol!

        And lastly, Andrea is a girl’s name… Lol!

  46. “The Golden State Warriors are exploring trade opportunities for All-Star forward David Lee and the three years, $44 million left on his contract, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.”

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba–warriors-explore-trading-david-lee-051633769.html

    • Wow! How about putting your only All-Star in nearly two decades and leader of the team up on the trading block?

      And that Lee was not wanted in trade for A. Bargnani? Ouch! Aldridge for Lee? Rejected by Portland.

      And I don’t think Lacob ever ever goes for this… Trading of Lee.

      I like Lee the person, the pnr finisher, the mis-match running center, the big man passer, and a PF in the right match-up… I don’t like Lee’s contract, his non-existent 3-pt shot, or his Defense (blocks)…

      • They might as well put Curry on the trading block as well. They obviously don’t want to build a team around his talents. Then I would quit making with the negative waves, because I would be outta here.

        • Agreed – Curry is the cornerstone of this franchise… And Curry’s not on the block… and with that W’s favorable contract? He’ll be here for 4 more years!

  47. Dwight Howard may be the first NBA MAX player to leave a team via FA for less money/1 less year – with no sign and trade testing Jerry West’s theory (never seen a player turn down $20 million before)… Dwight’s just the personality-type to do this…

    • the rules governing sign and trades changed under the most recent c.b.a.– a maximum duration contract can’t be offered to the player unless he stays with the team he’s re-signing with. Cle did a sign and trade w. james under the previous c.b.a. without that restriction, but the $$ amount per year was well under the maximum. there were a handful of players making more than james at the time and that’s still the case. don’t be surprised if howard also ends up with a higher annual salary than james. west’s statement was already disproven with the james contract.

      • I thought Bosh/James took paycuts for all three to play together and have a playable roster.

        Ahhh – so you’re saying that should Howard sign and trade with the W’s – the MOST he could receive is 4 years? Not 5 years?

        The Lakers would have to be willing to cooperate of course… Which I can’t see to a division rival…

  48. So let’s say the Ws do what it appears they want to do:

    – Trade Lee + Rush for a spread 4
    – Acquire Howard
    – Lose Landry
    – Keep Jack

    It would change their game considerably, but assuming Howard returns to full health that’s not a bad team. They could surround him with 4 good perimeter shooters. Bogut’s minutes could be reduced to help him stay healthy. The new spread 4 could share time with Barnes and Green. It leaves both guard positions short-handed, but if the team really could trade Lee that might be solvable.

    But Lee’s contract is a problem. For a one-way player, it’s too much money for too long. Rightly or wrongly (I won’t debate it here), that is how Lee is perceived – no-D Lee. And finishing the last two seasons busted up doesn’t help his case.

    I think the team’s ability to assemble a competitive Howard-led team depends entirely on their ability to trade Lee. I don’t see that happening unless the Ws take on some (other) seriously problematic contracts and/or players. So I hope the Howard deal is only Plan E or F, and the team prioritizes other options. Incremental improvement makes winning teams too.

  49. Could there be a better sign that the League has zero interest in the Warriors’ expiring contracts, than the shopping of David Lee?

    The brilliance of Joe Lacob, GM: Destroy David Lee’s health by the age of 30 with the Bogut trade, then shop him for pennies on the dollar in pursuit of another washed up big man.

    I love David Lee, but I wouldn’t trade for him now if I were an opposing GM. Closely-related season-ending injuries two seasons in a row? In all probability he will never be the same player he was again. He certainly will be limited in his ability to bang with opposing centers, which was his BEST position.

    • warriorsablaze

      David Lee’s minutes did not increase after the Bogut trade… how did the trade destroy Lee’s health?

      He’s overvalued by the Warriors….hence the bloated contract and the inability to find equal value in return. The league doesn’t value empty double doubles from a one way players anymore.

  50. What’s sad about this is that there’s not a single Warriors fan who understands that David Lee, healthy, is a much better player than LaMarcus Aldridge.

    • True. I’d take Aldridge in a heartbeat. I’d even throw in a late first rounder in an average draft if that’s what it takes.

      I don’t think Lacob is the one that wants to shop Lee around the league. Of course, just my guess…

  51. D. Lee and Udoh were great together in the court together defensively as the team outscored their opponents by a whopping plus 6 points over a 48 minutes. Bogut and D. Lee don’t work. Warriors trading wrong guy. Lacob has tried to trade Lee each year.

    As of right now. Kings may well have a better team

    • Frank,

      I don’t know, but Lacob/Myers might imagine that Barnes/Green/Jefferson/Rush can cover both forward spots as well as back up the 2 guard.

      If they believe that, then it makes sense to at least entertain offers for Lee, because his contract is somewhat problematic. If they could offload it, they’d have more flexibility moving forward.

      Without Lee (and Landry) the team would be smaller overall, but would be able to spread the floor better. Those 4 guys above can all score! Rebounding might suffer, but overall team D might not. Add one guard who’s good at attacking the hoop (Monta? Forsooth! But possibly Nedovic), and the Ws are a terrifying smallball team.

      It could be the weirdest team in the league. And the most difficult to defend against. Discarding everything we thought we knew about NBA basketball, leading an offense with the threat of Curry’s freakish shooting ability. Pure twistedness.

      That could be fun.

    • SA could be the only team in which Ellis would be happy as the 6th man. And he’d be excellent at it.

      • Agreed – Ellis would be a lights out 6th man.

        Monta’s willingness to play this role for the Spurs? I don’t think Monta would willingly sit well behind Danny Green…

        • PB, Ellis was the #3-4 option in his first season, with We Believe. The next year he was the #2-3 option. Then he was the #1 option. He didn’t talk his way into that position, he played his way into it. When Coach Jackson needed a big shot, he made sure Ellis took it. Not Curry, not Lee.

          When Ellis went to the Bucks, he deferred to Brandon Jennings. He was the #2 option. By mid-season he had played his way into the #1 option. Both times the Bucks beat the Ws this year, it was with Ellis game-winning buckets. His teammates – including
          Brandon Jennings – made sure he got the ball.

          Ellis thinks he’s a starter? I’m fine with that. That’s what all his coaches and teammates think. Starting with Don Nelson, they’ve all wanted Ellis to have the ball. A lot.

  52. “However, [Landry] hasn’t closed the door on Golden State, saying returning to the Bay Area is his No. 1 goal and he cannot recall ever being on a team that was so connected.”

    from the link @41

    If Lacob has his way, most connections will be severed. There won’t be a single serious player who has been with the team more than two years and who has real experience in the league, other than Curry. (Rush is still hard to count because of injury and he really hasn’t played that much.) Lacob hasn’t brought any contributing players along in three years. He keeps looking ahead at a continually receding vanishing point, ignoring what he has. But really his goal is to put himself at the center of the picture.

    The cap crunch he finds himself in is all of his own making, most notably with the Bogut deal. So his solution is to keep chasing bad deals with bad deals. What’s pathetic about the reported deals past and present is not only are most bad but they never had/won’t have a chance of happening. Does he believe if he keeps presenting himself as a wheeler dealer the league will eventually buy it? Doesn’t this become embarrassing at some point?

    The Warriors are becoming the Nets west—except they aren’t paying for their recklessness ($80m tax for the Nets next year?).

    • if the Brk owner throws $$ around like it’s monopoly paper, for him it is monopoly money. he has the state monopoly in Russia for natural gas.

  53. Lacob’s proposed trades to both Toronto and Portland, and trying to obtain Howard, now makes it clear that Lacob and his “yes” men are certifiably nuts. It started with his firing Nelson, acquiring an injured Bogut, tanking the season, firing the victim of sexual advances, trying to move to SF, drafting the wrong players in three drafts, and extended to his hiring Jackson over Malone.

    It seems that Lacob is hell-bent in turning Warriors fans, into Warrior haters. Someone please stop him from his madness.

    Felty: I don’ t think that D. Lee’s health is as bad as you make it out to be and that he will return just fine, if he is not traded.

    • Frank,

      Rudyard Kipling once said, “If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then you’re a man, my son.” I offer this in response: “If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then maybe you just don’t get it!.”

      Lacob knows things we don’t, and he doesn’t think like we do. How he thinks has worked out damn well for him overall so far.

      For whatever little it’s worth, I don’t get it either. That doesn’t make him nuts. It’s more likely to mean I should take some lessons.

      If we assume Lacob is a genius, where does that lead our thinking on the direction the Warriors should take?

      • lacob has succeeded in this post season dealing frenzy in generating buzz about his team. that’s all, so far. just a shadow puppet play. he might think he’s the puppeteer, but he could be just a big puppet. we’ll only see the shadows of the puppets and hear the sound track.

        • for the hoops fans unfamiliar with the great musical theatre from Java, the big puppets are usually buffoons, villains, or monsters. the gods and superheroes are usually skinny and clever.

        • moto,

          I love reading your comments. I feel personally enriched by the erudition and poetry. What could be better than interacting with a basketball fiend who channels ee cummings? Thank you. Sincerely.

          If I may, please allow me to carry your comments a step further.

          It seems entirely reasonable to assume Lacob is not entirely a free agent. He has bosses too. His bosses, aka “investors,” tell him he must make a profit. We can say that makes him a (insert pejorative term here), or we can simply acknowledge that his priorities are not identical to ours, we fans who do not have a financial stake in the team but only want to see “our” team play to win.

          FWIW, the only “completely free” people I’ve ever met are unsuccessful by any standard a normal person could aspire to. They could never manage to acquire or operate an NBA team.

          I’m OK with the possibility that Lacob is a puppet. I’m not OK with insulting attempts at PR, excuses over results, or anything else that means “my” team won’t win next year. As a world view that would be terribly narrow-minded, but the Ws aren’t my entire world.

          My concern over Lacob The Person only extends as far as his ability to deliver wins. I don’t care how he does it. I don’t care who he likes, what he personally values, whether he’s happy or sad. I don’t care. Make wins happen.

          Tell me, do I have it wrong?

          • thanks for your kind words.
            your position re. lacob is entirely rational and defensible.

            my expectations from the people who want to seize power and wealth and get the common volk to subsidize them are different. as long as he aspires to profit from paving over and polluting a public waterway, he’s a villain.

  54. Embracing history—I never get tired of this:

    • The Mullin Memorial Event was an epic fail, and it didn’t have to be. It did not prove Lacob is an idiot, it only demonstrated that at that time he didn’t know what would work with the public, and what wouldn’t.

      If you’re Lacob, expertise is something you can purchase. Charisma, personal charm or whatever-you-want-to-call-it is a product available for sale. That might be kind of a sad statement on the state of the world, but it is the reality.

      Lacob is a bright guy. He learned that lesson. He has taken a very low profile ever since the Mullin Night fiasco. At this point he doesn’t even claim to be the owner. Now he has a lovely spokesmodel handling the press chores.

      You might think of that as a form of dishonesty, but people in the PR biz call it professionalism. Do what works for your business. If your talent is not charisma, you must choose between “famous” or “successful.”

      After the Mullin Night, Lacob made the right decision. That’s a bright guy. Good for him. It says nothing about the future competitiveness of the team.

  55. Hat: Lacob has no intention of going small. And if he envisions small ball with the players you name, the Warriors are in a world of hurt. If the Warriors are ever to be a first rate team, Barnes needs be a reserve, not a starter, for that is where is talent level is at this point in his career.

    The salaries that are problematic are Biedrins, Bogut, and Jefferson respective contracts, and that is because their salaries far exceed their talents. The same can’t be said for D. Lee who produces virtually every night in one way or another.

    It’s good to see the reported machinations of Lacob going down the tubes for now, and hopefully, we’ll see Jack resigned, and placed in the starting line-up, Thompson shifted to small forward, with Rush and Barnes coming off the bench.

  56. Lacob “knows things we don’t .” Not so.

    Lacob thought Bogut would be injury free when he signed him. That proved to be false. Even if injury free, he was not the”transformational” player as Lacob said.

    Real insight in not trading Ellis for R. Anderson. Not.

    Lacob knew that Thompson was better than Leonard when he drafted Thompson. Not.

    Lacob didn’t use amnesty on Biedrins which would have enabled the Warriors to trade Thompson for Harden.Real insight there.

    And that is not even addressing whether Harkless is better than Barnes.

    And I predict that the SA pick taken after Nedovic was drafted will prove to be a better pick.

    And one must remember that “Jack” was given to us because New Orleans could not afford his salary.

    The funning thing is that if the Warriors had traded Ellis for R. Anderson, kept Udoh, signed a free agent equal to Barnes, and Rush was healthy, the Warriors would have had a team that may well have advanced beyond the second round.

    There’s still some hope for the Warriors, but Lacob seems not to know the right window to open and pass through.

    • Frank,

      I hear ya, friend, but here’s the thing:

      – You and I are not in a position to know how well Bogut and Rush can play next year.
      – You and I aren’t tapped into the inside scoop on Lee’s medical condition.
      – You and I can’t know what Lacob’s business tradeoffs tell him he can pay Jack or Landry or any other FAs.
      – You and I don’t know diddly about the team’s financial picture, its overall business strategy, or how important it may or may not be to the business to be perceived as a winner. We can’t know about that stuff.

      Lacob does know. He has to know. Even if he were an idiot, he’s better informed than we are. That gives him an edge over us even if he’s a stupid guy. Which he almost certainly isn’t.

  57. Hat: We do know the salary cap and the luxury tax threshold. It does seem he is willing to pay the luxury tax so he can sign Jack. It doesn’t seem that very much money will be saved this year if he trades D. Lee.

    It doesn’t seem he’s well informed on knowing which player is better than another. As, we do know that he offered D. Lee and others in a package for Bargnan,(sp?). or D. Lee and Rush for Aldridge. Both are way off base, as I agree with Felty that D. Lee is better than either of those players.

    • there’s probably other stuff they were hoping to squeeze from Tor, but we also have to keep in mind that much of the trade scuttlebutt gets put into circulation to stir up bidding competitions over players. the lacobites might even be trying to stir up bids for lee. Ujiri has a resume in multi directional dealing no one in lacob’s gang can match.

    • Frank, yeah, you’re right, we know what the cap number is. But.

      The salary cap is optional and arbitrary, an artifice invented by NBA owners themselves to provide cover for owners who choose economy over winning. Not a single winning team stays under the cap.

      D Lee’s overall contribution to a team is debatable. A tremendous offensive asset and near-league-worst defensive liability. And now he’s injured (again), so who knows what he’ll look like next year? Lacob knows more about that than we possibly could.

      If nothing else, the playoffs raised the possibility that Lee is not essential to the Ws success. They didn’t have enough, they needed more to beat SA. But honestly, we don’t know that that “something more” must be Lee. It’s conceivable that a scoring Bogut surrounded by kick-ass 3-point shooters could do damn well.

  58. MT2 thinks Warriors have a shot at Howard:

    http://www.ibabuzz.com/warriors/2013/07/01/warriors-making-their-dwight-howard-pitch/

    Not sure what that last line means.

  59. the last line was in my description in #55 above about lacob generating buzz around his team. he’s a publicity and promotional whore. on the espn.com ‘5 on 5′ roundtable, the pundits rank the chances of the teams chasing howard, and they put GS close to LA, above both Dal and Atl.

    stuff has leaked out of the Hou negotiations that howard wants Morey to acquire a third max contract star for the team. considering what LA will want to squeeze from the lacobites if the deal even gets to that point, howard would have some of his ‘supporting cast’ dispatched to acquire him. the lacobites would need to promise him that he’ll be the principal determinant for the team over the next four years. C.Parsons is part of the Hou recruiting squad, because he’s a friend of howard’s and has a long term future with the team. he also complements howard’s game to a degree no forward on the woeyrs can match. GS would be an odd choice on several levels, but the combination of his ego and limited smarts is volatile and unpredictable.

    woeyr fans like to fancy themselves as savvy, but they’d celebrate this hollow, shallow ego ?

    • It seems to me that if the Ws turned their back on the arguably most dominant C in the game merely because of his “morals” or smarts or ego, then they will have screwed up. The smart, successful solution to those problems would be to find a way to deal with them effectively, not to refuse to deal with them.

      • of course all the teams pursuing the big hollow tree are confident they can deal with his flaws creatively and effectively. Hou brought a h.o.f. center and former mentor of howard, Olajuwon, with the recruiting squad, LA’s h.o.f. former coach jackson sent a tweet, with future h.o.f. bryant and nash on their recruiting team.

        the team that wins his favour has to con him that he’ll be the heart and soul of their championship dynamo, when he won’t be. that’s one reason LA isn’t considered the prohibitive favorite, because of bryant’s status, rumors of friction between him and howard, combined with his unknown physical prognosis. the irony of trading bogut to get howard, is that the aussie actually could be the heart and soul of a very good team if his body would sustain it.

  60. Hat: I disagree with you that Lee is a defensive liability. When he plays with a mobile center like Udoh the Warriors did quite well.

    I think your point that Warriors did quite well without him playing against Denver has more merit. But, I still think the Warriors would have done just as well with his being healthy for said series.

    As for Howard, yes he’s better than Bogut, Biedrins, and Ezeili. But, my gut tells me that he’s coming off of back surgery, his performance declined 25%, and he is simply not worth the risk of giving him top money for four years. It’s like signing an injured Bogut. All you are left with is hope. Not getting him is not because of morals, but rather the fact that his play has measurably declined, and Lacob is once again is acting as a desperate man.

    I admit that the price of Thompson and Bogut, is not a high price, but is, if Howard can not return to playing a higher level as he did in the past.He may help get the Warriors to the playoffs once again, but he won’t be much in the playoffs with his poor free throw shooting. It’s difficult to believe that the Warriors will be a netter team with Howard than last year’s Lakers, who were not very good with Howard.

    My friend NF made the right comparison when he said that Lacob is like Jerry Jones of the Dallas Cowboys. He’s an owner who thinks he knows everything and sticks his head into places he should not go.

    • @Frank – being that you’ve been down on Bogut’s and Klay’s games all season, so trading them shouldn’t be a problem.

      Comparing Bogut with Howard – is apples and oranges… Dwight Howard still averaged 18, 12, and 3 last season – in 76 games!!! Sure he had a back and shoulder problem, but 76 games? That’s a dream compared to Bogut. Howard’s not Superman – just the best defensive center in the NBA.

      25% reduction in numbers? Scoring? I’ll say the Western Conference does that to Eastern Conference players – See David Lee’s numbers. Playing crap Eastern teams more and Western teams less – inflates numbers.

      Howard had a new team with new players and very little training camp. And then Brown was fired early. Then had the wrong coach brought in with no training camp. This all contributed to any downturn in “numbers.”

      No bigger proponent here on this blog for Bogut and Klay. And I’d do this trade in a heartbeat and even throw in a late first rounder in an average draft.

    • just to be clear, could care less about howard’s ‘morals’– he pays his child support as far as we know. the linebacker r.lewis who spanked the yorkies in his final game is a murderer who benefitted from status, resources, and friends who took the fall for him, but he exhibited leadership and smarts and teamwork to the highest degree, which can’t be said of howard. it’s not really a moral issue if howard wants everyone to know his religious leanings, but conceal who his children are; it’s just another sign that he won’t provide leadership for all the $$ and attention he wants.

  61. If we trade for Howard, I would much rather see us trade Barnes and Bogut, then Thompson and Bogut, but Lakers would most likely want the later.

    Given that Howard would be an improvement over Bogut, even with his limitations, the Warriors are still upgrading the center position unless his back problems returns. And I do see a Howard D. Lee front court as being good defensively. If Thompson goes, then Rush would play SG, and Jefferson would back-up Barnes.

    And if Barnes goes, then Rush would play SG, and Thompson would slide over to the PF. Part of me likes either trade, as I want to see Thompson and Barnes broken up.

    If Howard says he will come, it will be interesting to see if the Lakers try to pry D. Lee and Thompson from the Warriors. They should as Lacob will likely roll over.

    At any rate, the Warriors still should have some money left over from the expiration of Biedrins and Jefferson’s contrracts next year, but some of that will be used up trying to resign Jack and obtain another free agent if another trade can’t be made.

    • Klay, Rush, Green, and Howard – are all good to elite defenders…

      I’d rather see a front court of Draymond Green/Dwight Howard defensively. And if Draymond can shoot 35% from three? A spread floor for Dwight Howard and Stephen Curry.

  62. @56

    If Lacob hasn’t appeared in public since the Mullin night, it’s because he doesn’t want to get booed again. Make no mistake about it, it was about Lacob putting his face on the franchise and getting praise. This is not embracing history or respect, but what sane CEO talks like that anyway?

    He also had to get his dig in that respecting history was “something that hasn’t been done in the past.” Where is the respect in that, or any purpose? What does he gain by making the comparison? He feels compelled to show he is the “bigger” man. And I fear he really believed, when he spoke at the end of that overwrought tribute to Mullin, that all the little folk in the stands would cheer him. His stint with the Warriors is personal, and it’s all about Lacob.

    If he had enough troops, I think he would invade Russia. But hey, the little guy is going to get a chance to talk with Dwight Howard today. I’m sure this makes him feel important. And big.

    Lacob has not made one astute comment about NBA basketball but has made many dumb ones, which is fine. Owners are supposed to put up the bucks and manage, and turn things over to experienced people. He hasn’t done this. He doesn’t have anyone on the staff with experience, except Riley, whom he demoted to scout. West was brought on most likely because he embraced Lacob’s ideas about basketball, inasmuch as Lacob has any, and someone should debate whether West was the right advisor for the available talent. More to the point, it’s clear that West is a single voice, and we have every reason to question how much sway he has. Lacob has made it clear that all decisions run through him, and there isn’t anyone with both the power and knowledge to keep him in check or contradict him, apparently not even his fellow owners (um, largely the NBA and his ex’s trust).

    Why did Ranadive leave? Does anyone recall his saying anything about the franchise?

    Yet in spite of his limited knowledge, he has directed not only the types of players sought but also the way they play. We also have every reason to believe that he has not understood the potential of the club or even what he saw this past season, how well the team can play when they push the tempo, without his precious center.

    He has not managed the salary well at all, and keeps getting stuck making bad decisions and has put himself in a position to make more, just to save face. He has also wasted time by not developing his team in any substantial way from the start, but instead left them shorthanded, forcing top players to play heavy minutes, perhaps at the expense of shortening their careers. A single productive year from a player is a precious asset, one of 7 to 10, maybe more if you’re lucky. Lacob has wasted these with Curry and Lee.

    Further, anyone with foresight would have seen there was a large window of opportunity this past two seasons. The once powerful West has gone through massive change, and the time to start was immediately by building. The right players just don’t come along that often and have to be taken when the opportunity arises. Instead Lacob waited, banking everything on his center.

    I dunno. Maybe he’ll get his Valhalla on the bay built. Maybe one day he’ll walk in a glittering technological palace alongside mythical seven foot Warriors. He doesn’t seem to have his sites set on anything less.

    For further research:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_complex

  63. Sean Cunningham, Twitter:

    “Was also told by source that the Warriors are among teams that have shown interest in Tyreke Evans.”

    • FB will LOVE this… Lol!

      Big point guard – enable Curry to play some off the ball? Not many of them out there with Chauncey and Kidd and A. Miller – too old or done. It’s why Jack is a good fit here – enable Curry to play off the ball some.

  64. rgg: Great Post.

    I heard Myers explaining why he took Nedovic with the 30th pick. He said that after he obtained the 26th pick from Minnesota and was moving down, he called Nedovic’s agent who told him he expected Cleveland to take take him at the beginning of the third round. Why would Myers not know where other teams wanted to draft Nedovic? Why did he call the agent? Did he really think the agent would give him the real scoop? Did he not know the agent would be playing teams against each other? Most draft boards had Nedovic going not higher than the mid-40’s. There’s nothing more to be said.

    • Draft boards – are anybody’s best blind guesses.

      W’s relationships. Intuition. 3 trades and calls in to agents for information. All in a New York Minute.

      W’s get 2 additional trades in to help pay for the pick – and dump Malcom Lee – and still got their supposed player.

      I’d say pretty savy GM play from a former agent…

    • Thanks hat – I had read these earlier.

      The playoffs showed us – starting game 1 of Denver series down prior to Lee’s injury – to coming back and losing on the last W’s possession – that the W’s have 2 pretty good young spread 4s on the roster already… And this team can be unguardable if shots are falling.

      My question – is what the W’s would get in return for Lee?

      If it’s a package for A. Igoudala? L. Aldridge? I’d do the deal.

      If it’s Bargnani or other over-paid players? Forget it… I’m ticked off W’s even considered Bargnani – the way he’s played the last couple of years. We have enough garbage with Biedrins/Jefferson.

  65. Love David Lee – hate his contract’s last years.

    If he and Bogut aren’t moved, I want Lee and Bogut – to have their minutes together reduced… Something like Lee comes in for Bogut at Center.

    The only deal that I can think of that might actually work in reality is a sign and trade with Josh Smith and the Atlanta Hawks… The Hawks might lose Smith for nothing.

    Josh Smith has never made the All-Star team – and David Lee might help sagging ticket sales in Atlanta. Smith isn’t much of a perimeter shooter, but can run the floor and is a vicious shot blocker and a very good defender.

  66. The most uplifting musical experience ever. I wonder if we petitioned Lacob, could we get him to start games with this guy?

  67. @ 65 re Tyreke:

    Evans beat out Curry for Rookie of the Year once upon a time, but he is a career .276 3-pt shooter. The Kings are happy to let him get away.

    • He’s not exactly a team player, either. Hard to imagine how he’d fit in anywhere.

    • it’s been estimated that the teams w. cap room this summer have more $$ potentially available to spend than there are players worth spending it on. t.evans will probably be a beneficiary, and the number for him could equal or surpass curry’s annual salary.

      • Will any of that money push up Jack’s new contract?

        There are so many pressures that inflate the value of players. Sane clubs find ways to negotiate these over time, avoiding overhyped and overpriced players, picking up good players over time at good contracts and keeping them. Again, look at San Antonio.

  68. Howard had a torn labrum in his right shoulder last January, which apparently won’t require surgery. He wanted to ease off, but Kobe pushed him into playing through it. Anyone know if a summer is sufficient time to recover?

    Aside from all the objections voiced here about Howard, sufficient cause not to pursue him in my book, you have to wonder how much he’s got left and how much of a force he’ll be, especially over time. I assume he’ll have to get a four year contract?

    Somewhat in defense of the big guy, he’s played heavy minutes, 36 per game average, for 9 seasons, pounding away at the meat of the NBA, under heavy expectations. And he hasn’t really played with a full, talented squad, though there are questions what the right squad for him might be. You have to wonder how long he can keep going, whether there won’t be more injuries down the line, and whether he can keep his head, never strong, in the game. I can’t see this one paying off long term, not even for a few years.

    • lots of working and structural parts in the shoulder joint/cuff, so it’s unpredictable. r.gay admitted last season that his shoulder injury three seasons ago still impairs his shooting. if howard’s labrum affects his shooting stroke at all, he’s another good candidate for shooting free throws underhand, who of course will never consider the switch.

      if his shoulder has any long term decrease in flexibility, combined with his cranky back, it has to affect his rebounding.

  69. The NO Pelicans are, in fact, looking to offer Tyreke Evans $48 and will release Robin Lopez to free up cap space.

    Maybe the albatross would be a better team mascot?

    If the Warriors had more depth and didn’t have so much money tied up in centers (Biedrins and Bogut), Lopez, at a good price, would be an acceptable stand in center.

  70. @ 64

    “Why did Ranadive leave? Does anyone recall his saying anything about the franchise?”

    Why in the world would Ranadive say anything about the Ws? Ranadive’s Kings investment will earn more than 4x his investment in the Ws. That’s several billion reasons to move on. You think he would need more reasons?

    rgg, as an educator, you know this word: epistomology. Let’s be clear on this: what we think we know about Lacob is based on nothing more than how we interpret what his PR team (including Kawakami, apparently) chooses to share with us. We don’t actually KNOW Lacob personally. We don’t KNOW his intentions for the team, and we sure don’t KNOW his psychology.

    Early on, Lacob seemed to think he should play the role of “owner” (I don’t KNOW this, of course.) Now it appears he has stepped back and asked his professional spokespeople (Myers, Jackson and West) to deliver the mandatory soundbyte product in his place.

    The voices have changed, but as fans we still only get soundbyte product. Professionally crafted media releases with the purpose of promoting the business. They don’t conform to the rules of scientific evidence. They are not necessarily facts, reality or truth. If you think you can glean truth from them, you are mistaken.

    C’mon now. Lacob may be a sweetheart, he may be Napoleon, he could be Jack the Ripper or Mother Theresa. But you and I cannot know. Our only “evidence” on the matter is highly suspect. Promotional soundbytes.

    And, bottom line, who really cares if Lacob is a nice guy? Give us a winning team – yay! Give us a loser – boo! That’s the end of my interest. You need more than that from Lacob? Why?

    • Actually, I don’t care what Lacob is like as long as he does his job, though personally I’d just as soon not see him. But all indications are he’s projecting himself, his personality on the club, and we see it in his every action. This is a personal undertaking for him, and he has to put himself in the picture.

      My main objection is that he hasn’t turned the club over to experienced, more capable hands. Everything runs through him. There are no checks to his control, and this is always a formula for mishap. Again, all indications are that West is merely a figurehead, useful, say, for taking down to LA to talk to Howard. What does West think about Howard, anyway? He’ll never say. There aren’t even any checks among the owners—Guber? The NBA? His ex? Ranadive may have been the only sharp mind in the group, and we never heard from him.

      Ranadive has hired people with experience, and when he tried to get Bird on board, part ownership was offered. I assume this would have given him some power in decisions.

      • Lacob is also the guy who spouts out his beliefs—superficially and hypocritically—nonsense about “character” and “winning culture” and “sins of the past.” These are personal, and he’s projecting them on the club.

        Do you think you’d ever hear Sterling mouth crap like that? And Sterling is a monster. But he’s putting the club where it belongs, with the players and coaches (anybody know anything else about his FO?). Do you think he’s not going to listen to Rivers or give him freedom?

        • Stirling gave Rivers executive input for his roster. this means Rivers can meet with free agents without Stirling’s son or another exec looking over his shoulder, as he is doing today with O.J. Mayo over lunch. mayo could actually perform jack’s role for GS pretty capably, in some ways possibly better than jack, but he won’t work for cheap. we’re probably not going to see them pursue combo guard free agents in that salary range as long as the lacobites cling to their chances of re-signing jack.

      • “This is a personal undertaking for him, and he has to put himself in the picture.”

        Lacob’s management of the Ws is a professional undertaking. It’s his job. We don’t KNOW how personally he takes it.

        “Everything runs through him. There are no checks to his control, and this is always a formula for mishap.”

        Lacob still has major investors to please. They are checks to his control. As sharp investors, they pay for good advice. Lacob himself pays West an enormous sum (part ownership!) for world-class advice.

        “Ranadive has hired people with experience”

        So has Lacob. Rick Welts as president. West, Myers, Jackson, Malone, Riley. Other great assistant coaches like Pete Myers.

        rgg, you’re saying that a man who got to be extraordinarily wealthy largely via his interpersonal skills has a corrosive, dysfunctional ego. That seems unlikely. If you met the guy, you’d probably like him.

        • I seriously doubt he got rich with interpersonal skills. VC bucks, I understand, come from being at the right place at the right time and having the right connections. A corrosive, functional ego, however, can be quite successful in certain enterprises. Speaking of which, I’m curious what Ellison would have done, just for comparison, not that he would have done better.

          The problem is, Lacob probably thinks he is a nice guy and for all I know he is. Who cares?

          • Like all VCs, Lacob seduces people for a living. The ability to make people like him and trust him is an essential job requirement. The evidence shows he’s very good at it.

            Ellison’s path to success was quite different from Lacob’s. People who work at Oracle tell me he’s a rough tough guy. Making money is a byproduct of his drive and smarts, not his raison d’etre. Winning is his central goal. You can see that in some of the unproductive moves Oracle has made over the years, and in Ellison’s involvement in that money bonfire called yacht racing.

            Based on what little I know about both, I suspect the Ws would have won more under Ellison, but will make more money under Lacob. It’s probably why Stern favored Lacob over Ellison for the Ws. Making money is more attractive to more investors, which can only raise the value of NBA franchises more. Stern probably made the right choice for his owners.

            As an investor, I’d prefer to bet on Lacob. As a fan with no financial stake, I’d prefer to have a rabid winner in charge. On the other hand, having a winning team makes Lacob more money, and Ellison might not have won no matter how much money he threw at the team. Examples abound.

            Whatever.

      • after a year’s sabbatical, Bird decided to return to the Ind front office. should Mia start to decline, which would hardly be a surprise, and can’t continue to find quality vets to play there at a discount, Ind could come out on top. granger didn’t even play last season.

        from the once-highly regarded Den front office, Ujiri departed for Tor, where he immediately pulled off the Bargnani trade. his former assistant D’allesandro, highly regarded for creative statistical analysis and adept cap-ology, was hired by Ranadive to run Sac’s personnel.

        there are many ways that an owner can invest in the team that improves the roster and aren’t limited by the c.b.a. and lux tax. even Stirling saw the writing on the wall with their first round loss and the imminent departure of their best player to free agency. he made a huge investment in Rivers and gave him an executive position in addition to head coach to acknowledge his input with the roster. SA pays for extensive international scouting, and has a full time shooting coach on popovich’s staff. $$ invested in training, therapy, and medical staff doesn’t count against the cap.

        lacob certainly tries to look like a ‘major player’ in the media and his political manoeuvres to grab public resources, but what cold cash, rather than media fluff, will he put into his on-court product ?

        • If the Ws are dogs, they won’t be embraced by the people of SF. Lacob needs the public to have the perception that the Ws are winners. That doesn’t mean they will win, and it doesn’t mean that Lacob is at liberty to ignore the salary cap and luxury tax. In fact, the sounds he and Myers make about salary suggest that the lux tax is very much a consideration in personnel decisions. Lacob is managing an investment, not playing at a hobby.

          That being said, it’s worth taking a deep breath and comparing today’s Ws to Cohan’s.
          – Great results this year.
          – VERY good player development, something that could never be said of a Cohan team. Thompson, Barnes and Green all showed substantial improvement over the season, and the team got productive minutes from another rookie as well, Ezeli. That’s actually kinda amazing.
          – The new training/medical staff got a lot from injured players, something you could never say about Cohan’s staff.
          – Great clubhouse atmosphere! Compare that to Nelson’s last 2-3 years.
          – Highly professional media work from the players. Even Monta, even when he was traded without notice, sounded like a solid pro. A huge improvement over the raw amateurishness of the Cohan era.

          In the end, don’t you have the sense that the team is going places now? They might not be champs next year, but they won’t be the hopeless dogs Cohan usually delivered.

          I’d say Lacob has changed the culture. The team may lose next year, but they’re not losers. Players want to play here. That’s excellent. Lacob has made mistakes (Biedrins), but as far as building an organization, it looks like he’s made all the right moves. The team CAN win now. Good stuff. Couldn’t be better.

          Now with a few good personnel moves…

  71. Even Bogut thinks Lacob is full of shit re Dwight Howard. Is there anyone left?

    http://blog.sfgate.com/warriors/2013/07/02/andrew-bogut-dismisses-dwight-howard-trade-talk/

    • Bogut is hardly an impartial observer, but he’s probably correct in his assessment of the situation. Funny, though, that he thinks Bogut + another starter or two is not enough compensation for the Lakers to make the trade. Makes me wonder how his ankle is doing.

      • bogut’s opinion about the deal probably has nothing to do with how his ankle is doing, but partly to do with how LA considers him and his ankle. he’s hardly the only skeptic that sees little to nothing in LA’s interest to assist howard if he wants GS above all others.

        • I don’t know, moto. Even if Kobe came back, he wouldn’t be The Kobe. That means that if Howard opts to leave, the Lakers are three ancient, often-injured guys (Gasol, RonRon, Nash) and a bunch of backup players.

          You don’t think they’d be interested in some mix of Thompson/Barnes/Green even if they had to take Bogut too? Especially now that they’re competing for eyeballs against a good Clippers team?

          It’s not even just a basketball competitiveness thing. Given their still-immense payroll, the Lakers could quickly get into deep financial doodoo if they didn’t win. Their worldwide revenue stream would disappear.

          The Lakers probably need to dump Howard, because they desperately need to staff up. The only Q is who they’ll get in return. The Ws can offer a good collection of young starters from a winning program.

          • LA doesn’t have to operate the way most n.b.a. teams do. they have that recent mega deal with time-warner media (who had a rep at the recruiting table to assure howard he’d be marquee’d up). if they have to, they get a good wing to fill in for the smirk, a back up for gasol, and just wait until next summer. in July 2014, with no contracts added to the present roster, the only obligation remaining would be nash’s 9 m.+, so even after a couple of additions, they’re in the james lottery.

            if they don’t want to see howard playing in their division, they can afford to say no. would acquiring barnes or thompson to fill the smirk’s spot be sufficient, when they can buy from the huge list of free agents coming up next summer ? and they’re not behaving like they wish to dump howard, but appear earnest about re-signing him.

    • I must be missing something…

      If Howard tells LA that the Dubs are his number one choice and Houston (or Atlanta, or Dallas) is number two then what leverage does LA have to bleed the Dubs. The other teams can sign him outright. What better sign and trade can they demand from an unrestricted free agent who has picked his suitors? They’ll try to prey on the Dubs’ lust for Howard but if the Dubs show a little discipline, they can get a decent deal.

      The main obstacle is more likely the money he can make in LA or save in Texas. It probably won’t ever get to the sign and trade negotiations.

  72. Landry to talk with Rivers and the Clippers. . . .

  73. Joe Lacob’s attempt to circumvent California law on land use and environmental law in his quest to build a new arena was blocked at the rim. As the California legislature rejected his bid to give the warriors an exemption from existing State law. As the result his momentum has stopped in it’s tracks for the time being as his attempted end run failed.

    • thanks for this welcome news. thought the house bill they wanted to have the exception made for the piers got passed already — was the senate version rejected ? do you have the senate bill number, or are you referring to something else ?

  74. Any other blog would be thrilled by Harrison Barnes showing in the playoffs and the fact that he started every game as a 20 year old for a second round playoff team. The Lakers would be silly not to take Barnes in a trade with the Warriors. Barnes in two years will be a borderline All Star. There is no real indication that he is the premadonna know as The Brand by Feltbot. Secondly, he has proven to be a hard worker and that he is happy playing second fiddle to Curry. He is a nice shooter and as he ages, will become a more physical presence. He is not LeBron, but he’s also far better than players like Pietrus who the Warriors have drafted in the past. I think some credit to the FO for the Barnes pick should be given. If nothing else his performance has made him a valuable trade asset. Analyzing the FO is all good unless you don’t credit them when they have dine something well.

    • Pietrus was a stopper, a fabulous defender who gave Lebron and Paul Pierce fits as a member of the Magic. I saw him more than once block Lebron’s jumper off the dribble.

      Is that who Harrison Barnes is?

      • Pietrus also has a fantastic talent for this kind of thing:

      • Meh, Pietrus didn’t do much for the Warriors and never became much of a consistent scorer, except as a three point specialist for the Magic for about two years. Barnes has a chance to be a far stronger offensive player and a meaningful piece for a winning team. He does not have to be any better than the No. 3 option for the Warriors as long as Curry, Klay and Lee are around. Judging by the Warriors draft history, I am happy with that. Secondly, with the No. 7 pick, you certainly do not expect an immediate star player. When you get one like Curry at No. 7, you should be very happy. Harkness is a nice piece, as would Leonard have been, but neither is an immediate star! Ease off on Barnes until he has another year or two under his belt. I think you may need to change your tune, Felt.

        First round picks for the Warriors:
        2003: Pietrus (11)
        2004: Beans (11)
        2005: Diogu (9)
        2006: POB (9)
        2007: Bellinelli (18)
        2008: Randolph (14)
        2009: Curry (7)
        2010: Udoh (6)
        2011: Klay (11)
        2012: Barnes (7) and Ezeli (30)

        I certainly see an uptick since 2009. Four out of five players are starters with Udoh as a strong rotation player.

        • Pietris and Barnes? Like apples and oranges. One was an elite defender/role player who made you cringe every time he touched the ball offensively – the other a potential All-Star caliber player who had just about the greatest rookie playoff run in the history of the NBA.

          I’m with you Peteb24 – the flip flop on Barnes will be coming soon… And Barnes’ defense will improve in time. And Barnes will soon be an unstoppable small ball 4.

  75. The Kings yanked their huge 4 yr – $54m offer to Iguodala after he didn’t accept it at once. Love it! Hilarious.

    I think Iggy may wind up with regrets of Sprewellian proportions.

    • too bad. hope malone gets what he needs to keep his team’s competitive edge vs. GS. if evans and freddette both depart, that’s a start.

  76. I like what the TWolves are doing. Budinger and now Martin. If they resign big Pek, as seems likely, they’ll have a real nice crew.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/twolves/2013/07/02/minnesota-timberwolves-kevin-martin/2484819/

  77. Moto: have no other details regarding the Californis legislature sticking it to Lacob.

    Warrios reportedly tried to trade Lee for Love.

    I remember when Minn. general manger offered at one time trading Love for A. Randolph, and instead the Warrior traded Randolph and others for D’. Lee.

    • that randolph for love trade proposal was a rumor with little credibility, unless Min was asking for future first round picks and the like in addition to randolph, who was a lower lottery pick with no significant n.b.a. accomplishment.

      the bill proposed by lacob’s political cronies, passed by the assembly about a month ago, is AB 1273, which seeks to exempt the piers and adjacent shore from the regulatory authority of the Bay Conservation and Development Commission that was granted under state law some years ago. last week the BCDC itself took a vote and resolved that it would oppose AB 1273 unless it was put under a two year study and all the details of the construction and development could be reviewed (details that lacob et.al. would not be able to provide at present).

      as of 25 June the bill was supposed to be under review by the senate natural resources and water committee. among the organizations opposed to AB 1273 are the SF Waterfront Alliance, Save the Bay, Sierra Club, and Bay Keeper.

      on the team’s official web site, they’re taking ticket requests for the SF venue for the 2017 season.

      • You can’t get paid unless you ask to be paid. “Oppose” the arena and stick out your hand.

        Expect to hear of “concerns” from SF City Council members, local small businesses, parking lot operators, Longshoreman’s Union, fishermen, yachting interests, neighborhood associations, waterfront pedestrian organizations, professional dogwalkers…

  78. Doesn’t it seem that Lacob has no plan for the Warriors but just running around with his head off trying to make any deal he can. He’s like the energizer bunny. Just pathetic.

  79. Can’t wait we get the inconsistent Iggy for the consistent D.lee. Comedy Central.

  80. The Love for Randolph straights-upb trade was widely reported. Love was not the player then that he is now.

    • rumours get recycled by bloggers, or pundits like kawakami or any number of the espn commentators and the like, but that isn’t the same as reporting accurate details with confirmation from two sources with actual knowledge from the principals. disinformation also gets intentionally circulated by agents.

  81. “BCDC’s [Bay Conservation and Development Commission] request for a two-year bill was based on concerns expressed during the meeting that the Warriors’ arena plans have been incomplete, especially in lacking details about the true mass, bulk, and height of the project which would be built over open Bay waters on Piers 30 – 32.”

    http://theyodeler.org/?p=7721

    Sounds kind of like the Bogut deal (and maybe the Howard). Maybe the new arena will start sinking, but they’ll be able to prop it for the opening of the 2019 season? Or at least get it up a few weeks for the playoffs.

    How can Lacob not know these details now? Bulk especially would have everything to do with how much they rebuild the piers and how much the thing would cost. The two year delay should add millions more.

    Or does he know but is keeping it secret because he knows it will add more expense down the line than he has projected, but figures, once he gets the green light, he can figure out the real costs later?

    Then you have to ask what kind of precedent AB 1273 would set. If they make an exception for the Warriors, why not others? It sounds like the BCDC and other forces were biding their time until they could step in, given SF’s and the assembly’s fickleness. But at stake here is the state’s power to have any influence on the development not just of SF, but the entire coastline of California. Make an exception for a lousy basketball arena? Did Lacob expect the state—eventually—to simply lie down and abide by his wishes? Give up their influence and power? Did he have any idea of what he was getting into?

    Meanwhile, the bay area will have to sit on his visions of Xanadu for at least 6 years, enough time for the glitter to wear off.

    Do we have any good reason to think Lacob knows what he is doing?

    • rgg,

      According to the link below:

      “In 1850, San Francisco Bay along with San Pablo and Suisun bays covered around 680 square miles (1761 square kilometers). By 1970, 250 square miles (647 square kilometers) of water surface, mainly around the shores, had disappeared.”

      http://www.oneonta.edu/faculty/baumanpr/geosat2/Shrinking_Bay/Shrinking_Bay.htm

      A Martian dropped into our world would probably see the SF Bay Area today is one large city with a giant hole in the middle.

      The fact that literally thousands of governmental organizations (cities, municipalities, counties, districts, water authorities, environmental commissions, public interest groups, etc.) all currently have a say in managing the region is largely a matter of bureaucratic inertia. If you dig deeply enough you can trace nearly two centuries of our area’s progress and development solely through the thousands of (now mostly powerless and do-nothing) administrative agencies. Most of them are little more than historical relics today.

      Earlier in this discussion thread, moto brought up Confucius in discussing ethics v. sexual attraction. I’ll add a corollary:

      Re ethics v. money, money wins. The shrinkage of the bay over the last 150 years is compelling evidence. If you’re up for a little research, check out the origins of Foster City, for just one (especially egregious) example.

      Lacob can eventually get his waterfront arena. Water authorities cannot successfully argue that a landfilled pier is worse in any way than one suspended on wooden posts soaked in poison. Ditto environmental authorities. Lacob is not suggesting shrinking the bay, so that’s not an issue – knock off a few hundred bay preservation organizations right there. Coastal access, navigational rights, fishing rights, shipping interests? Check. Got it covered. Somewhere deep in the bowels of Warriors HQ is a staff dedicated to playing whack-a-mole against the myriad of tiny organizations who might oppose the Grand Plan.

      Does Lacob know what he’s doing? Yes. The new SF arena is ambitious, without a doubt, but it is possible to pull off.

      Will Lacob pull it off? Maybe not in his lifetime. But maybe.

      What the heck. You can’t hit a homer if you don’t take a swing, right?

      • Even assuming all that, where is the upside?

        You can’t hit a homer if you’re not standing at the plate.

        • If Lacob is not an idiot (a safe assumption) he has 2000 people and $2B behind him. He’s at the plate.

  82. @79

    Here’s a link on the Sacto/Iggy thing:

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2013/07/03/andre-iguodala-sacramento-kings-contract-offer-nba-free-agency/2485297/

    FB, rescinding an offer is a common hardball negotiating tactic. It does not prove that the Sacto/Iggy connection is dead. Far from it.

    ——–

    Whew, check it out: “…With Evans likely to sign the Pelicans’ four-year, $44 million offer sheet…”

    How does a team rationalize paying Tyreke that kind of money? That’s roughly 25% more than Tim Duncan earns. Far more than Curry will earn under his current contract. 2x Jarrett Jack pay.

    It’s astonishing pay for a guard with a 3-pt shooting average of .276. Does NO think Evans is an uninjured Derrick Rose? I want Evans’ agent working for me!!!!!

  83. Howard reportedly told Houston he wanted another max player on the team. Which means he may have his way with clubs, perhaps not for the better. But it also means he wants to play for a contender, and I can’t blame the big guy here.

    So what pitch did Lacob make to him in this regard? Presumably they’d trade Bogut plus Barnes or Thompson, but with the latter it would remove 1/8 of the team’s projected depth. Or did he promise they would keep Jack? And/or go after someone else?

    Then how much would this cost next year? OK, I haven’t been paying attention and someone correct me, but they’d have to pay Howard something like $21m x 4 years, which, once salaries are subtracted, would put them $5-6m over the cap, for which they’d have to pay the same in tax? Then if they keep Jack, double his salary because of his tax?

    And that still won’t be enough depth, not for next year, so maybe they tried to lure him with the promise to add great players the following season once the big expiring contracts go off the books?

    But Howard doesn’t want to come here anyway. Has Lacob factored that in, and does he have other plans? Couldn’t this money be better spent? But time is running out.

  84. New owners Peter Guber and Joe Lacob set about changing the culture of the franchise. They brought in the highly-respected Jerry West to the front office. They went way out of the box with Mark Jackson as the coach. They have talked about a new arena on the San Francisco waterfront. They wisely want to do everything different than their predecessor.

    And that includes spend money — and let fans know they are willing to spend it. That they are willing to go after the best players available.

    So even if you have no real shot at Howard or Iguodala, you go in the room and pitch to them how good things are and how they fit in. The fans appreciate it. Future free agents (and their agents) take notice. And you put yourself on a different track.

    from NBC/ProBasketballTalk (the link is too damn long)

    This has to be the plan, and it’s what we’ve been hearing all along. OK, how many problems do you see in the above? I will note only one, that there is a difference between being willing to spend money and actually spending it, which Lacob hasn’t done yet (forget spending money wisely). Even the Howard deal is limited in spending, at least next year, and other players to surround Howard are slipping by.

    All that is solid melts into air. . . .

    • Geez, rgg.

      Here, I’ll throw ya a bone: some gloom/doom potential for the Ws does exist. Things might not work out. That would by ouchy.

      On the other hand, why dwell on disaster potential? The worst the Ws can deliver next year is no worse than we longtime fans have already suffered through. The upside potential is… Hey wait a minute! We have upside potential! For the first time in (not years, but) several decades! The Warriors could be great! For real!

      Embrace the possibilities. Here’s one: the Ws starting lineup next year could be Howard, Lee, Rush, Iggy, Curry.

      Damn. That would be fun.

      • If we’re going to fantasize, my fantasy would have the Warriors doing what the other good clubs are doing, filling out their roster and shoring up positions. I’d take several medium, good acquisitions over Howard any day.

        The Clippers, because of the trades, may let Billups and/or Barnes go. I don’t know if Billups has a full, good season in him (probably not) but he’d be great. Barnes would add some edge both ends of the court.

        Kirilenko behind Lee? The Spurs are interested. Probably too pricey, though.

        etc.

  85. Moto: the trade was A. Randolph for the 4th pick which was Love. Katz, GM of the Timberwolves, said it was true, as did Riley. Riley turned it down.

    I understand that Lakers have said they are doing no sign and trade for Howard. So it appears went on this wild goose chase without knowing the Lakers intentions. Stay tuned for Comedy Central starring Joe, I know more than anyone else, Lacob. Please bring back Larry Ellison.

    • Frank – I am not saying the W’s have a good shot at Howard. But the Lakers supposed lack of interest in a sign and trade means nothing at this point. They can’t give up on Howard before he has made his decision. Once Howard picks a team to go to, if it would happen to be the Warriors, the Lakers could easily pick the W’s pockets and come away improved in a sign and trade…. The Lakers would be in the driver’s seat at the point, neither Howard or the W’s would have any leverage with the Lakers, and that is yet another reason that this deal is low probability.

  86. Hopefully the Warriors will not be able to move, and remain in present digs, until new arena is built on
    other side of freeway.

  87. Latest on Nedovic:

    Agent igrača, Miško Ražnatović potvrdio je kratko za Mondo da je Nedović blizu potpisivanja ugovora sa Voriorsima na dve plus jednu sezonu i da će srpski reprezentativac tim povodom sledeće nedelje boraviti nekoliko dana u SAD.

    Pre samo nedelju dana dvadesetdvogodišnji Nedović izabran je sa 30. pozicije na NBA draftu, poslednje koja igraču daje šansu da potpiše garantovani ugovor na najmanje dve sezone.

    Po NBA “ruki skali” on će kao 30.ti pik zarađivati nešto manje od 900.000 dolara po sezoni.Srpski reprezentativac će ući u istoriju i kao poslednji draft “pik” čije ime je pročitao Dejvid Štern, legendarni komesar NBA lige.

    http://www.mondo.rs/a594971/Sport/Kosarka/Ode-Nedovic-odmah-u-NBA.html

  88. Everyone is missing the big point about the Warriors chances. Howard was religious and the W’s have the preacher presenting to him. And you all remember that it was “God” who was impacting the W’s every day this last season, or at least every win, according to the Preacher. So, if God can help so often during regular season can’t he participate on just one day in the off season? Have a little faith, fellas… and pass the mustard seed.

  89. Actually I do not mind the W’s chasing after D12. I really do think it is good practice for them and does raise their visibility within the nba. And I appreciate the philosophy of, “do whatever it takes, turn over every stone… etc..”. I just think you cannot interpret that as literally every stone. I mean, Tyreke Evans????

    I do think the W’s have some distinct advantages..
    1. An energized owner who is actively pursuing the specific free agent. (we may know some of his warts, but the league in general is not as critical of Lacob as we are and it is impressive for an owner to be so comitted)
    2. Peter Guber can look him in the eye and say, I want you for a movie… and it is credible.
    3. Curry and Klay got a reputation as great shooters, and you got to be thinking that is a good match for you, and they are young and getting better.
    4. Mark Jackson – the man can sell, is well respected by players in general and loved by his players. He can make an emotional appeal on several levels.

    It probably will not work with D12, but we are a long way from Cohan….

  90. If these “experts” are remotely accurate, Monta Ellis needs to fire his agent immediately.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-on-5-130703/what-top-nba-free-agents-worth

  91. Another college coach thrown to the wolves:

    http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2013/07/celtics_go_young_call_on_brad_stevens

    6 year deal? One of the dumbest coaching hires ever. The Celtics are 4-1 favorite to eat the last 4 years of this deal.

    • Young, sharp, aggressive, a small school coach with an interest in analytics, without NBA experience—he sounds a lot like Mike Dunlap, whose demise is analyzed well here:

      http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/04/24/4001863/bobcats-firing-of-mike-dunlap.html

      But part of the problem may be how long Ainge will stick with his own plan. I also wonder if the analytics craze will cause FOs to short circuit the real experience of successful veteran coaches.

    • From AW on the topic:

      “Ainge believes Scalabrine — who is strongly considering an assistant coaching job with the Golden State Warriors — has a future in coaching and talked in broad terms about the job with him, sources said.”

      Though we have to questions Ainge’s credentials.

    • If experience leads to better coaching, and successful use of analytics also leads to better coaching, maybe they’re just two different paths to the same destination.

      Based on the evidence we have so far, neither approach is guaranteed successful, neither is guaranteed to fail.

      It’s probably good to keep an open mind on advanced analytics. The approach is still in its infancy, and it’s too soon to really know its ultimate potential. I suspect that at this time there’s more data than meaningful info. Good interpretation of the data is still being developed. Of course, an experienced coach with an open mind would probably have an advantage over newbies in interpreting the data from advanced analytics…

      In any case, Ainge may well fire his new coach before his contract is up. But coaches take it in the neck for lots of reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of their work. This year’s Coach of the Year, for example, was fired for public relations, i.e., “He never wins in the playoffs.”

      Ainge is completely rebuilding the Celtics. Any new coach with a new team would need some time to make it work. Probably more than 2 years. But if even Karl can get fired after a season like he had this year, then any coach can. And if Ainge did fire his new coach, it wouldn’t necessarily be a mark against advanced analytics.

  92. Stats on Monta and others, from 82games.com

    Clutch Win %

    Ellis 61.5
    Ginobili 60.9
    Bryant 51.3
    Thompson 58.8
    Curry 60.0

    Clutch +-

    Ellis +17
    Ginobili +7
    Bryant +14
    Thompson +34 – Holy cow!!!
    Curry +49 – Holy Holy Cow Cow!!!!!!!

    PER

    Ellis (as PG) 21.1, opponent 12.3
    Ginobili (as 2 guard) 21.0, opponent 11.4
    Bryant (as 2 guard) 23.1, opponent 12.8
    Thompson 12.1, opponent 13.5
    Curry 21.7, opponent 16.5

    Re that last measure, Ellis as a 2 guard barely edged out his opponent this year, 14.4 to 13.8. At first glance that’s yet more evidence for Nellie’s POV that Ellis should be a PG. But since Ellis always covers the best opposing guard, the PER comparison of SGs is probably not an accurate measure. Whenever the Bucks’ best opposing guard was a PG, Ellis’ 2-guard opposite faced Brandon Jennings, not Ellis. Before that, Ellis covered Curry’s PG assignment at least half the time. That skews Ellis’ comparative stats quite a bit, and it could help explain why the “poor D” meme on Ellis has always predominated among the media. “His guy” always ran wild against Jennings. And in previous years, Curry. Besides, at 6’3″, Ellis just plain does NOT measure up well against most 2s.

    Also note that if PER counts for anything, the numbers make Thompson look like a DEVASTATING FAILURE compared to Ellis or other elite guards in this mini-list. I don’t think that’s quite fair. For one thing, Thompson often had to cover for Curry. For another, his clutch performance was completely off the scale, twice that of Kobe’s.

    Re Thompson’s clutch numbers, Thompson played next to Curry and Kobe mostly finished games next to Steve Blake this year. Ellis played next to Jennings, NOT a clutch player. If everyone and his grandma knows Curry should get the ball at the end of a tight game, it really should do excellent things for the clutch numbers of Curry’s teammates. If Thompson didn’t look clutch under such ideal conditions, he’d simply suck as bad as his PER numbers suggest. But to Thompson’s credit, it appears that someone did deliver bigtime in clutch time. Presumably, that was Thompson sometimes.

    Since it’s a team game, stats only have meaning in a team context. Thompson is no Kobe, Ginobili, Ellis or Curry, but he’s not as gawdawful as his PER numbers suggest. Ginobili is a different story. Factoring in the different team records, Ginobili’s clutch numbers should have looked quite a bit better. This was an off season for him, for sure.

    And then there’s JJack:

    Clutch Win %

    56.8%

    Clutch +-

    +27

    PER

    PG 17.9, opponent 15.6
    2 G 15.2, opponent 11.9

    Jack’s clutch +- number looks nearly as outlandish as Curry’s and Thompson’s, but lower than both of theirs. The Ws with him on the floor closed out tight games better than the Bucks, Lackers or Spurs, but he was the worst finisher among Warriors guards.

    In net PER, Jack’s numbers are worse than anyone here except Thompson’s, and Monta’s as a 2 guard. I read all that as saying Jack is an OK guard. Not elite. Probably not a starter for a winning team. Probably not worth a big salary increase to the Ws. The team should be able to find other “OK” alternatives for an OK, average, mid-level salary. So if Jack gets an offer this summer for significantly more than he’s making now, the Ws are likely to let him go. They should.

    Anyway, these are hardly “advanced” stats, but they’re somewhat informative. For FB and other eyeball experts, none of these indicators can be very surprising. For noobs like me, they only confirm what I think I saw.

    Curry is damn good, Thompson still has room for improvement, Jack is probably outta here this summer, Monta better focus on playing PG, and Ginobili’s new $7M contract might be a little high for his performance level, but not by much. Whew.

    Enough time wasted, I need to go out and play in the sun. Ciao.

    • +1 Interesting stuff here.

    • you might benefit from reviewing the critiques of the methodology and weighted differentials of the p.e.r. system of analytics. its critics have a pretty good case that it favors volume shooters and not shooting efficiency. enough discrepancies have been demonstrated to my (untrained in stats) satisfaction that p.e.r. is never part of my assessment of a player. you might be satisfied with p.e.r. of course, it’s the nature of those systems.

  93. It looks like this is the only fireworks Warriors fans will be getting. Happy 4th., guys.

  94. Hat, Great Post. Very interesting and changed my opinion of Monta.

    I’ve never been a fan of Monta’s but the 2012-13 stats indicate that he did his job.

    I’d add this. He and Jennings both played similar high minutes. Yet, Monta’s +/- is, apparently, a little better than the team’s overall point differential for the season (since some of the numbers are extrapolations, I don’t have exact figures for what happened). Jennings’, on the other hand, was far worse. Jennings on-court number was highly negative and his off court number was even more positive. That is, the team did much better when Jennings was sitting.

    If the numbers have been calculated correctly, those are facts. Like all facts, they are open to interpretation. Since I only saw 2 of the Bucks’ games I won’t try to put these numbers in context. I would point out that Monta’s numbers looked worse when he was a W.

  95. Twitter going beserk: Howard has apparently said YES to the Warriors, and the Lakers NO, because Lacob and Co. are frantically shopping their expirings all over the league, trying to dump salary to get under the cap.

    On the other hand, “sources” are claiming the Lakers would sign and trade Howard for Bogut + any one of Barnes, Thompson, Curry + a 2014 pick. I find that hard to believe because anyone as desperate to pick up Howard as Lacob is should be willing to package Barnes away in a heart beat. I’m guessing the Lakers want Curry, or both Barnes and Thompson.

    • Mark Heisler confirms exactly what I just wrote re Lakers’ demands, and also that Warriors willing to offer Barnes — according to “sources close to the Warriors.”

    • if howard comes to oaktown, the hoops gods will have granted me the boon of freeing my time and attention on matters not woeyrs-related. he and the team will be getting enough hype that my inconsequential input will be even more irrelevant. and my prediction will be, that the team won’t get to the finals with howard until another significant acquisition or major deal comes their way. in other words, it could push them somewhat closer, but it’s not enough, and another route to the pinnacle might be smoother and simpler.

      • Yes! Jerry West > Mitch Cupcake and is playing him like the West Virginia fiddle.

        Don’t want to sign and trade with us on our terms? We’ll clear the space and sign him outright and you lose Howard for nothing… To a division rival…

        This can’t be good for the NBA.

  96. the three team trade w. evans to NO, vasquez to Sac, lopez to Por would appear to benefit the two Pacific coast teams. vasquez’ minutes went up nearly a thousand between his second and third n.b.a. seasons, with significant improvement in several key areas (measured per 36 min, not in merely in gross totals where bumps would come just from increased minutes). probably better for malone than the inconsistent evans. Por acquired lopez for a pretty reasonable ransom, a bit of cash and three second round picks (two future, and this year’s).

  97. I had no even allowed myself to think about Howard teaming up with Curry until tonight. If there is any player in the league that can help Howard be an offensive threat, it is Curry throwing passes in his direction. All of those lefty and right runners that DLee hits would be monstrous dunks off the Curry pick and roll. Howard, when motivated, is a star. I think Oakland is the perfect fit in terms of motivation.

    • If the W’s Front Office can pull this off – salary dump and keeping the young core intact (Curry, Klay, Barnes) and adding the best defensive center in the NBA… Jerry West is the freaking man!!!

  98. if they had amnestied Biedrins – this deal would be a lot closer….

  99. Kit seems what Lacob is trying to do is dump salaries and sign Howard to a one year contract as a free agent without breaking up the core of the team. Pulls that off he’s a genius.

    • W’s just playing hardball with Mitch Cupcake… The threat of the Lakers losing Howard for nothing to a division rival? Priceless…

      If the W’s get no traction, they’ll have to give up more to the Lakers – or get no help from them.

  100. If the Warriors under the CBA can trade Birdrins., Jefferon, and Bogut to three different teams and give each one of out first round picks in thev2014, 2016, and 2018 draft. They would then have the money to sign Howard to a one year deal, and after one year be ablev to sign Howard to a max deal. That way he’s not losing much money and in his mind will be playing for the Warriors a potential championship caliber team this year. The Warriors can attempt to buy back first rounds picks in future years as they did this year.

    Whether the Warriors would have to take back some actual players in the deal is unknown. The real question is whether the Warriors can dump at least two of the three expiring contracts. Lakers may be hozed. And even if Howard signs elsewhere they haven’t lost anything of value.

    • sorry guy, details matter in trades involving contracts the size of the three players you’ve named. the trade partner under your proposal has to have the budget room to take on those contracts (9 m. and up each), and value the first round pick to the extent that they’ll sacrifice their own flexibility. budget space doesn’t get given away, and all the teams know there are good free agents coming onto the market next summer. you simply won’t see a deal in which the woeyrs dump a big contract and don’t have to concede another obligation coming back to them.

      • FeltbotsFakeGirlfriend

        Hey moto Biedrins, Jefferson and Bogut are all in the last year of their deals so none of these players would affect anyone for 2014. Get your facts straight.

        • yes of course, but why would another team pay biedrins 9 m. or jefferson 11 m. free of charge ? the other teams are in the same bidness as the lacobites. they know the the woeyrs are desperate to clear cap space before howard makes his decision. they have leverage to make the woeyrs accept some obligations past June ’14 — freeing woeyr cap room now for howard in exchange for cap room to spend on the next round of free agents.

  101. If this thing happens, it’s an odd confluence that has made it possible. Look at it through Howard’s eyes. He wants to go the team with the best chance of competing next year. Superficially, the Warriors come out on top simply because they had a better record than the other teams and their 6 game run in the playoffs gave them national attention. Curry, finally, got recognition as a star, a big selling point, probably a better one than Harden, regardless of whether he could play well with either or the offense each requires.

    The Lakers are in disarray. I give the edge to Dallas and Houston next year over the Warriors because they have better depth and experience, better cap space to work with, and better coaching and management. But the Warriors were able to convince him they’d be able to overcome these shortcomings for the reason that would persuade him most: they’d have Howard.

    His experiences with previous coaches weren’t good, especially D’Antoni. Playing with an ego like Kobe must have been intimidating. He has to be wondering what he might face with a veteran, hard nose coach like Carlisle. He won’t have to compete with a veteran with the status of Nowitzki. But Jackson et al. must have put on a hell of a performance to allay these doubts and assure him he would be at the center, that the club would be built around him. They even brought the accommodating Curry—no Kobe, no competing ego—to work out with him, to show him the player who will assist him to his greatness. And Jackson must have given a great, reassuring sermon, words and a tone he hasn’t heard elsewhere.

    It won’t work, or won’t work that well. If he can’t play with Gasol, how will he manage with Lee? How good is he at the pick and roll? How well can he assist? How well can he run with the offense, manage anything fast and complex?

    Can the FO really dump those bad contracts, or are they putting on a show to push the Lakers into a sign and trade? If they do dump them to sign Howard outright, how much money, if any, will they have to work with the next years? (I’m not clear about the specifics.)

    What else could have been done with all that money?

    • If Jerry West and the W’s pull off this miracle – The W’s front office will be first rate – the W’s are the better team short and long-term contender and are much better than Dallas, Houston, and the Lakers… And I’ll be posting about how the W’s will be matching up against the Heat in the NBA finals.

      Stan Van Gundy’s in your face, aggressive/loud, confrontational style – did one ever think VAN GUNDY was even a good fit for Dwight Howard? D’Antoni was a nightmare selection fit other than Nash having played for him. Brown? Lol!

      Mark Jackson’s positive message, respect of being a successful NBA player, and his spirituality will work VERY well with the best defensive center in the NBA.

      You’re right – Lee needs to be moved if Howard is brought on board – and a real spread 4 brought on. Draymond Green if he isn’t traded would be an excellent small ball 4 if his shot hits and Harrison Barnes is a hell of a small 4 – as the playoffs showed against the Nuggets/Spurs.

      The W’s have young players and draft picks to pair with Jefferson’s and Andris’ final years and take back little contracts. And Bogut’s contract – should be very easy to dump as lots of teams are looking for a defensive rebounding center – Atlanta or Cleveland comes to mind and have capspace.

      • the lacobites will certainly be pushing the hype that acquiring howard will take them to the finals next season, but that doesn’t make it so, by any means. so far howard hasn’t shown he can do as well in the west as he did in the east. acquiring him certainly addresses the loss of ezeli, but what about jack and landry ?

        • Howard’s stats were still very very good in 76 games last season in the West with a very disfunctional team/organization with 2 coaches and too many chiefs.

          And Howard’s both a better player offensively and defensively and a healthier player than Andrew Bogut…

          True – the W’s need a way to build a solid bench – if they can’t afford Jack and Landry.

          Curry, Klay, Rush, Lee, and Howard is a contending lineup.

          Perhaps Lee’s contract can be moved for a deeper bench.

    • if a team gives howard the ball on offense as often as he says he wants, they’ll see turnovers with mediocre playmaking from howard, when his missed free throws are considered. in theory the woeyr perimeter shooters will have open shots, but either bogut (presumably traded off the team to fit howard in) or lee will actually deliver the ball at the correct time and place. as for the pick and roll — if howard isn’t confident in nash, curry is supposed to do better ? it probably isn’t about executing the pick and roll, but howard perhaps resenting nash giving him instructions, while curry is younger and more deferential.

      teams that dump bad contracts have to make concessions, and in this case the woeyrs can’t even take much back, in obligations they’re assuming as part of a deal, because it affects their ability to pay howard his 20 m.+ per year. what did they get when they off-loaded the s.jackson or maggette (able to contribute more than biedrins or jefferson) contracts ? radmanovic and gadzuric.

      • I can’t imagine it would be hard to dump Bogut’s $14 million contract – with nothing back in return. Altanta would take him in a heartbeat. At a minimum – it’s an expiring. Should Bogut get healthy, a steal.

        Jefferson and Biedrins – more difficult for sure, but just attach the W’s 2014 and 2016 first rounders to teams looking to tank with cap space. It will be a good year to tank supposedly! Heck – Biedrins might be the starting Center in Boston – after that coaching hire, and the talent/coaching drain – Ainge MUST be tanking! Lol! Plus Ainge wants picks…

        If West can pull this off (dump contracts), the W’s keep their young core of Curry, Klay, and Barnes – cheap contracts. Lee and Howard – their high priced vets. The W’s could re-sign Jack and Landry…

  102. FeltbotsFakeGirlfriend

    Feltbot-

    “So pathetic, traveling to meet him after his agent sent word he wouldn’t be visiting them. Just as pathetic as those begging billboards the Lakers have erected.”

    So pathetic huh???? Dwight Howard made every team that was interested in him fly to LA for a meeting. Not just the Warriors. So please find a real reason to bash the Warriors.

  103. The good thing out of all the Warriors going on is that the are exploring all their possible options.

    In the final analysis, will they make the right decisions to improve the team?

  104. Obtaining a first round selection in the draft may prove to be huge as it provides the Warriors with incredible flexibility.

  105. @BillSimmons is betting on the Warriors:

    “My bet on a Dwight outcome: LA sign-and-trades Howard + Artest to GSW for the Bogut/Biedrins expirings + Klay Thompson + future 1st.”

    • “PS: Don’t be surprised if Nash (expiring in 2015) ends up in a GSW/Howard sign-and-trade, would give Lakers even more 2014 cap space.”

  106. Marc Stein: Just added to ESPN’s latest Dwight story: Sources say Warriors and Jazz have opened talks on trade that would send Andrew Bogut to Jazz

    Marc Stein: Just added to ESPN’s latest Dwight story: Sources say Warriors and Jazz have opened talks on trade that would send Andrew Bogut to Jazz

  107. Bogut to Utah? Trade discussions underway.

  108. Marc Stein reported one minute ago that Bogut off the table in trade talks. Is this because Warriors heard from Howard and he’s not coming?

    • It’s because, remarkably, they have received a lot of interest in Bogut. They’re concentrating on dumping RJeff and Biedrins, knowing they could move Bogut at any time.

      They want to create max leverage against Lakers, by creating the ability to sign Howard without sign and trade.

  109. I’d be fine with Warriors of at least ridding themselves of Biedrins and Jefferson’s contracts and not signing Howard. Not impresses with guy who turns the ball over way too much, doesn’t excel on the offensive boards, and can’t hit his foul shots.

  110. Still think that Bogut in play in trade to Utah.

    Won’t be included if sign and deal worked out with Lakers.

    Get feeling Howard has decided to leave the Lakers and that Warriors and Houston two top teams in hunt.

    Makes some sense as Lakers not going anywhere next few years.

  111. Iggy reportedly wants to join the Warriors.

    • Howard/Ezeli
      Lee/
      Jefferson/Green (?)
      Thompson/Rush (?)
      Curry/

      This is fun. The Warriors are providing entertainment even in the offseason.

    • Big IF!

      I wonder where Iggy would play. Replacing Thompson? Fantastic!

  112. @111

    Adding Nash to the Ws would be awesome. Can you imagine?

    Howard (?) /Bogut/Ezeli
    Lee/Green
    Iguodala/Barnes
    Thompson/Rush
    Curry/Nash

    With or without D12, that’s a great lineup.

    • Rush left with Biedrins and Jefferson.

      • OK. Thanks for the info. That means that as of this sec it’s:

        Bogut/Ezeli/Lee
        Lee/Green
        Iguodala/Barnes/Thompson
        Thompson/Iguodala
        Curry/Bazemore

        That roster is a few pieces short, but there is still plenty of time to fill in the blanks. The official FA period hasn’t even started yet.

  113. FeltbotsFakeGirlfriend

    Igoudala took less money to sign with the Warriors. I guess the Warriors are not as inept as Feltbot claims.

  114. Warriors dump Biedrins, Jefferson, Rush and multiple picks including 2014 #1 on Utah, sign Andre Iguodala for 4 years $48m.

    I have to admit that this was masterful work by the Warriors, presenting the very best case for Dwight Howard to join them.

    Masterful IF Howard does indeed come. If not, the analysis becomes more complicated. Iggy is good, fills a desperate need for a stopper, but has been problematic offensively in his career. And talented 3 and D players can be had a lot cheaper.

  115. I decided for the first time today to follow Tim Kawakami on Twitter, to stay on top of the DH saga… only to find that he has preemptively blocked me from following him!

    I guess I’m really under his skin. Good.

  116. Howard picks Houston.

    So let’s review: The #Warriors traded Rush, Jefferson, and two No. 1 picks for the right to pay $48m/4yrs to a 29 yr old 3 and D stopper.

    Good deal?

    • you are probably oversimplifying what iguodala will contribute. he’s one of the league’s elite perimeter defenders, and most of the players in the category you describe do not have his passing and playmaking ability, which surpass jack’s. popovich, buford, and SA have to be put into a category of their own in terms of identifying talent at the lowest possible investment, like d.green or leonard. tony allen doesn’t bring what iguodala does on offense.

      of course we need to see how the team will execute with their new wing, but don’t be surprised if they’re more efficient on both ends, from having a smart, experienced, two way player on the court. they’ve been without one for quite a spell.

      • Agree that Iggy is an exceptional offensive initiator for a wing. Disagree strongly that he surpasses Jack in that regard. Jack’s midrange game draws a lot of extra defenders, Iggy’s can be ignored.

        Yes, San Antonio found Danny Green and Leonard for peanuts, but are they really the exception? Jimmy Butler, Tobias Harris, Mo Harkless — how much better is Iggy than those players?

        How much better is Iggy than Jared Dudley, just traded to the Clips, or Matt Barnes, just re-signed to the Clips for the mini mid level, 3 yrs $11m?

        • It’s more about the “fit” here with Iggy and the W’s. Curry now gets an elite athletic defender who can handle, pass, rebound, slash, and finish at a high percentage. Jack no longer a necessity.

          @FB – You’re selling Iggy WAY short if you’re comparing him to Harkless, Harris, and Butler… Iggy is in K. Leonard’s class. $12 million is a reasonable deal and below market (King’s initial offer of $8 million total/$4 million per year – was more). And the W’s don’t need him to shoot.

          • “And the W’s don’t need him to shoot.”

            Yes they do. Particularly with Bogut in the middle, the Warriors need to spread the floor.

            He is much better lately as a spot up 3. Struggles with everything else.

            The chief problem teams had with Iggy in the past is that he wanted to be a star — in particular, he wanted to be the man in crunch time — and his offensive abilities were not at all up to that. If those feelings are behind him, it will greatly help him fit into the Warriors.

            No question the Warriors were desperate for a wing defender, and he’s unquestionably one of the top 5 in the league — for now. But bear in mind that Iggy is a very similar player to Stephen Jackson, and he’s being given this contract at the age of 29 — just like Jackson.

            Not saying he’s not a good piece for the Warriors, I’m just saying they paid a hell of a price for him. In future draft picks, and in what they can afford to fill out their roster.

            At least both his ankles work.

        • to a degree you’re taking easy shots at large targets. vets like iguodala with attractive resumes who’ve already reached certain salary levels will be expensive, but we already know that lacob is attracted to a variation of conspicuous consumption, relishing that he’s able to shop for luxury goods. players in that category will be overpriced particularly compared to those who are still in their first contract, like butler, leonard, harkless, et. al., but if the woeyrs don’t draft the very best themselves, they can go without or pay the market premiums. players like dudley are in another category — their potential development and earnings getting suppressed by how their teams perceive and use them. he was drafted by a poorly managed team, and even after going to Phx it took a couple of seasons before his playing time exceeded 2000 min.

          of course iguodala could fail to meet expectations, or decline due to age and the high usage when he was in Phi, before the contract ends. he might also flourish in a different environment with teammates and fans he enjoys.

  117. Write it down, the next domino to fall: Jeremy Lin for Jose Calderon.

  118. Why do I have such a strong feeling that Warriors fans were extraordinarily lucky that Joe Lacob’s latest brainstorm fell through?

  119. Marcus Thompson is reporting that since the Warriors have gone under the cap, they have lost their exceptions for the year.

    The true genius of Joe Lacob reveals itself! #cheap

  120. Musings: If it hadn’t been for the amateurish Bogut trade, wouldn’t it have been the Warriors who had James Harden and Stephen Curry, and the best shot of landing Dwight Howard?

    • The Ws seem to have gotten more savvy since the Bogut/Monta trade. This offseason they’re off to a good start.

      I never would have suspected they’d find takers for Biedrins and Jefferson. Losing Rush is a shame, but adding Iggy more than makes up for it.

      With D12 out of the picture, the team even has a few bux left over to possibly re-sign Landry and/or Jack without getting punished too badly by the lux tax. This is all Very Good Stuff.

      • They gave up two #1 picks in addition to Rush, including 2014’s in reportedly a very good draft. And I believe Jack and Landry are gone — no room.

        And no one is talking about this, but I’m guessing that Utah will get a lot of valuable minutes out of Jefferson. They don’t have a rookie SF to promote.

        I see the move as interesting, but not a clear win. It can’t really be evaluated fully until we see the endgame. Does Barnes get traded? Or is it Klay? Does one go to the bench? How will the rest of the bench be filled out?

        And most importantly of all, who will be the Warriors’ center next season? Ezeli will not be available to save the day.

        • I think you’re right about Utah using Jefferson, but the Ws weren’t going to use him, for whatever reason, so it doesn’t hurt the Ws to move him.

          Losing the two #1 picks won’t hurt much if the Ws do well. As we’ve seen, if they have to they can simply buy their way into the late first round of the draft, which is where those missing picks would end up if the team has a good record.

          Rush might be a plus next season or not. No way to know how well he’ll bounce back from his injury. But ignoring salary issues and just focusing on oncourt performance, I’d take Iggy over Rush in a heartbeat.

          The final decision isn’t in on Landry and Jack. There seems to be interest around the league, but nobody is waving big $$$ at them. After shedding $25M in the Utah trade, the Ws have a few bux left to work with. Personally, I’d like to see them take a run at this guy, even if it means Curry doesn’t get a Jack-equivalent backup:

          http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9453164/omer-asik-houston-rockets-want-play-dwight-howard-source-says

        • This is the kind of guy I thought the Ws might replace JJack with:

          http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9443655/indiana-pacers-agree-deal-cj-watson-sources

    • Maybe, but they could also be left like Dallas, naked by the side of the road with their junk in their hands. The Rockets look even better, but the Warriors have added a lot of talent in the last 2 years, and I think it fits pretty well together. It will be an interesting season.

  121. IGUODALA: “Mainly, the coach and the culture, the environment. I feel like they have a good culture there, a lot of great guys, great locker room. The way they’ve got those guys playing with such confidence, that comes from the coach. The way those young guys were playing against us, that’s confidence. I saw Klay Thompson running full speed down the court, caught the ball, took two steps and shot the 3. His feet wasn’t even set. That comes from coaching. I want to play with that kind of confidence.”
    “I’m a big fan of mark. Big fan of the guys they’ve got there. The way ownership was going a few years ago, it wasn’t looking too good. But the way they’ve turned it around real fast … And the fans in the playoffs, seeing that crowd erupt – you always wanna be in a good basketball environment. They have a great locker room. Their crowd was with them every single game, especially the playoffs. That was an awesome atmosphere.”

    http://www.ibabuzz.com/warriors/2013/07/05/andre-iguodala-we-can-be-a-really-good-team-with-a-lot-of-hard-work/

    Several things stand out regarding why Iggy turned down more money from the Nuggets to sign with the Warriors:

    First of all is that Denver sacked a brilliant GM, substituting their owner. And second they sacked a brilliant coach, substituting a walk-it-up triangle guy, Brian Shaw — absolutely the wrong guy for the roster. Iggy, like many of the more talented athletes in the league, wants to run and gun, and recognizes that it is the best system for his talents.

    The Nuggets are a sinking ship — Kenneth Faried was morose on twitter even before Iggy bolted — and Iggy deserted at just the right moment. I make them about even money to make the playoffs next season.

    Third, Mark Jackson turned himself into an adept Nellieball coach last year, and that caught Iggy’s eye.

    And fourth — the Oracle fans. It was widely reported last season that Nuggets fans didn’t turn out for the postseason, and their arena was dead. Clearly, that matters to the players.

    • That’s the best endorsement of the club I’ve heard—and it doesn’t come from a spin doctor. I’m on board.

  122. Kevin Murphy:

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1510316-utah-jazz-is-kevin-murphy-the-next-rip-hamilton

    Why didn’t he get more playing time with Utah? Is their guard potential here?

  123. First it must be acknowledged that today’s trade is the result of trying to undue the prior bad signing of Biedrins and the trade for Jefferson.

    As you correctly point out there are a few players as good or better that see paid much less. I said last year that because of the warriors bad moves the Warriors would have to take on an inflated contract that exceeded the players talent and they have.

    Iggy played, at best, just average during the year, but very well in the playoffs. Yes, he c an distribute, get to foul line better than both Barnes and Thompson, and can get more offensive rebounds then them, and plays far superior defense, but a poor three point shooter. It’s an open question whether his contribution would be even as good as a healthy Rush. Once again we have a somewhat bloated 4 year context.

    Iggy doors average slightly more than one additional possession per game and that helps and slightly offsets his poor shooting.

    He may think that Jackson is a good coach but may find that untrue with Malone gone.

    The lost first round choices may orate not be purchased in the future.

    So, in transactions to date, we added Iggy,and have list both Landry and Jack, we will have to see if Jack is still in play.

    There is no doubt that the warriors would have gotten much more if they merely have let both Biedrins and Jefferson contracts expire. But, good sense is not one of Lacob’s strengths. The warriors room to sign free agents next year is now limited.

    The Warriors roster is still not balanced. We still lack a center who can play with D,lee. Still no interior defense. The Warriors need to do further trades this year. This move was just to unload to bad contracts and by doing so restricted our range of choices.

    Also, we apparently loose our exceptions and Bird rights.

    • Frank, by waiting until their dead contracts expired, it’s true that the Ws would have gotten more, later. But they would have had to wait another year.

      Win now. No waiting. Later for later.

  124. Questions, if anyone can field them:

    1. I never thought such a thing possible, dumping those contracts. Why is the deal attractive to Utah? Yet I checked their blog, and few are that upset.

    2. I’m not clear what losing exceptions means, but apparently they lose Bird rights on Jack as Frank says? (One of these days I’ll stop and learn this stuff.)

    3. But won’t the FO not only have some bucks to spend, but also incentive to spend them and even exceed the cap? Meyers said they were planning to go over. They have every reason to be aggressive now.

    4. If so, what are their options? They’ll still need some kind of backups at 1, 4, and 5. Collison if not Jack? They can’t rely on rookies at point.

    Damn, Hat. Your fantasy was within range.

    • Weird, isn’t it?

      I don’t think the Ws are through dealing yet. But if they made no further moves, that would mean Lee plays more at C (not a bad thing), Green and Barnes back up the 4 (spread 4s!), and Iggy backs up both guard spots as well as starting at the 3.

      • Iggy will start at the two, not the three. Except when the Warriors need a 3 stopper.

        Which means Thompson gets moved to his natural position, Barnes to the bench.

        Unless the Warriors completely F up by trading Thompson.

  125. TK’s unsurprisingly ebullient take (it is increasingly difficult to distinguish him from a PR flack):

    http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2013/07/05/the-opportunistic-hungry-frenetic-warriors-front-office-iguodala-now-who-knows-what-comes-next/

    Note that he says the Warriors renounced their rights to Jack and Landry to do this. I won’t pretend to understand this, but other capologists on twitter said the same thing.

    • Note also that Kawakami makes no pretense that Bob Myers is the GM. Everything is “Lacob and Myers.”

  126. One thing obvious about the Warriors’ roster as it now stands: they have a huge hole at center. And I think it’s equally obvious that Lacob will throw the bulk of their remaining money at filling it. Another Kwame Brown is on the horizon.

    Is that a cost of today’s transactions to bring Iggy to the Warriors, or a benefit?

    • Any chance they might be induced to go after a 4-5, Hickson? He’d fill all kinds of needs fairly well—backup 4, backup center, and stand in center if Bogut goes down, until Ezeli returns who will still be raw.

      It would be utter heresy with the FO, but if there is interest in Bogut, now would be a good time to unload him, if for no other reason because of concerns about his health. And that would give them a lot of money to play with.

  127. The Warriors still have some left over money to obtain a back-up point guard and PF. And they still have room to upgrade the roster via trades. Barnes should be used as trade bait for a good back up Sg or Pf. The Warriors trading either Bogut or Lee has diminished.I agree with Hat that the Warriors had to mKe a deal and not wait till next year even they could have done better then.

    Iggy is a good pick up given how bad our perimeter defense has been. I will miss Rush,

    The Warriors still have room to improve the roster and must do so. Warriors might go sfter Asik.

  128. And now Howard is 50/50 on staying with the Lakers.

    This is the guy we wanted to turn the club over to?

    I bet he really was swayed by the Warrior presentation, especially by Jackson. But then he talked with his agent. I’d be curious to hear that conversation.

    • About an hour ago:

      “Earlier, a source told ESPN The Magazine’s Chris Broussard that Howard had landed in Los Angeles and contacted the Lakers, telling them he was 50-50 on his decision to sign with either them or the Rockets.”

      But apparently he’s made up his mind—Houston.

  129. Rgg: agree on obtaining Hickdon.think Hickdon better than Landry. I Probably have to package Barnes Wiyh Bogut in order to unload him.

  130. Hoopsworld has, in fact, already updated the Warriors cap situation with the trade:

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/golden-state-warriors-team-salary

    And it rings in at $59.6 m with $2.6 room exception. What does nonguaranteed mean? Are they committed, for example to the Jones and Machado contracts or can those come off the books simply by releasing them?

    I think Moto explained this earlier—while around 59m is the cap, the taxes don’t kick in until around $70m or so? And didn’t someone quote Meyers as saying they were planning on a $70-78m salary next year. Surely they have money to play around with now.

    Anyway you can hire a consultant, FB?

    Hey, moto! Clear this up!

    • Answering my own question—I think. Their guaranteed level is $56m, while the total is $59—so apparently they aren’t locked in to the non-guaranteed salaries, including Kevin Murphy’s?

  131. From MT:

    Warriors have no more cap space but they still have a viable way to add to the roster. I’m told the Utah deal netted the Warriors a couple Traded Player Exceptions (TPE). One early estimation is they would total more than $20 million. Golden State could use those to add the depth they need.

    * The Warriors could find a player who another team is trying to dump and absorb that salary using the TPE. So if, say, the Bulls wanted to get rid of Taj Gibson’s contract (you wish!), they could send him to the Warriors for one of the TPEs.

    * TPEs cannot be combined, nor thrown into another deal. So basically the Warriors can only get player(s) whose contract(s) fit(s) the amount of the individual TPE (which will be determined when the deal becomes official). They can’t give another player or picks away, nor can they receive picks

    * The Warriors could conceivably get a free agent with the TPE, but it’s probably not feasible. It would require another team to perform a sign-and-trade. So, say the Warriors want to get J.J. Hickson from Portland. He could sign with the Blazers and be traded to Golden State. But the only thing Portland can get in return is the TPE. The Warriors can’t throw in a pick to sweeten the deal, as they did with Utah

    * The Warriors won’t go after a back-up point guard to replace Jarrett Jack. Sources said they will use Iguodala mostly in that role. They could get a third point guard for insurance, though. But Golden State’s next priority is a big man who can serve as the back-up center while Festus Ezeli is on the shelf.

    http://sulia.com/channel/golden-state-warriors/f/aed23164-32b8-4743-9e30-3c2199d449e3/?source=twitter

    • “But Golden State’s next priority is a big man who can serve as the back-up center while Festus Ezeli is on the shelf.”

      As I predicted. Here’s another prediction: whoever this big man is, he will start 40+ games for the Warriors next season.

      As for going without a backup PG, how do y’all feel about that? Recipe for success?

      • This is *confusing*. A week ago, they had a total salary of $70+m and still had the option to pick up Landry and Jack, as long as they paid the tax, which would have been a team close to what they have now. But now they can’t pick up either one without a deal with other teams. How do other teams go over the cap?

        They still need to pick up a few more players, and I can’t believe the FO has gone this far without wanting to go farther. They should be able to afford it under their own terms.

        Bogut is their biggest trade piece, an expiring one at that. Pull the trigger and fill the roster.

  132. The Warriors can also trade players.

    So is Jack virtually beyond our reach?

  133. It’s interesting me that many of the same people raving about the Iggy signing are the same people who HATED the Stephen Jackson extension. Very similar players, similar contracts, same age, right?

    One MAJOR difference. Iggy’s FT%, never good, has been declining for 4 straight years, now at 57%.

    • Iggy wants to play here. . . .

    • A few contributions from a regular lurker. I like to come here to get some different perspectives.

      1) Most advanced stats think Iguodala is a MUCH better defender than Jackson, so that may influence many of those voices.

      2) There is a pretty easy way to get the mid-level exception back, which is likely to be used in rounding out the bench. In order to use the MLE, you have to be over the cap. The Warriors are just under the cap, but they can go over the cap for any draft pick or extension. If they just sign Nedovic, that may put them over the cap in which case they can use the $5 million MLE to sign a free agent.

    • when s.jackson got the extension from rowell he was virtually the sole two way player on the team, and pretty much the best player on the team (despite what the legendary ellis might have thought at the time). at least some of us, including yours truly, recognized that at least, though giving an extension before the contract is near its end isn’t just about production and talent.

      free agent signings were going on this summer at a pretty good pace as soon as negotiations were permitted, so lacob and myers might have perceived some time pressure — would a competitor entice UT with a different deal that would soak up that cap room, or make a winning bid on iguodala ? it’s their call, and not up to the armchair kibitzers who’d wait until the mid season trade deadline to unload biedrins and jefferson.

      • FB – Apples and oranges. Iggy opted out of $16 million, was an unrestricted FA, and signed for less money to be on a team he liked…

        Stephen Jackson’s extension was early and unnecessary. Only from Rowell/Cohan…

  134. Love iggy. W’s top 5 Western Con if healthy. Losses of Jack and Landry don not affect core of steph. iggy, Klay, HB, Lee and the Bogotus. I hope this team carries both Bazemore and the rookie serb guard. Swarm other teams w/ “small” talented skill players. This team has much more than potential than Run tMC, who I saw alot of-
    If this team can sign a stud PF who can run (he dont need to score)rebound block shots they will be set…

  135. Any chance they can pick up Billups cheap AND he can play a full season? I’d like to see a vet on the club and the Warriors might be a good fit for him. His skill and savvy might make up for his loss of speed, and he’d only be needed in spots to spell Curry.

  136. We got rid of both Biedrins and Jefferson. That’s enough to justify the trade. And we got a defensive player which we didn’t have. He does make 52 percent of 2’s. one cannot say that from Barnes or Thompson. He should not be the back- up PG. As the Warriors need a legitimate back up PG, center, PF, and SG.,

    • Iggy is one of the best defenders in the NBA. I’d read somewhere when he guards SFs – their PER is under 10!!! Elite shutdown.

      I like his 5 assists/5 rebounds/1.7 steals per game averages.

      Bogut and Iggy – elite defenders. Green and Klay – good defenders.

      I’m disappointed in losing Rush – but he was coming off major injury. And Iggy is a much better player.

  137. Huge expirings gone! Cap space great! Added a great piece in Iggy! What’s not to like? It’s good to be a W’s fan today!!!

    Iggy signed with the W’s for less than market value and is an excellent fit here! Iggy does all the things – people on this blog have complained about that Barnes/Klay – don’t do!

    Lose Jack? No problem – Iggy can help Curry handle, distribute the ball, slash, kick, rebound, and attack the basket.

    And Iggy – is an ELITE defensive stopper guarding the opponent’s best SG/SF… I’d read his opponent’s PER at SF is under 10!!!

    The W’s just became a true legit contender with a somewhat healthy Bogut and Curry.

    Losing Jack, Landry, and Rush – David Lee trade rumors. Same player agents… Interesting.

  138. Nellie would be very proud of this small ball unit! Perimeter shooting, defenders-wing and shot blocking post, athleticism, skill, passing, etc.

    W’s Small Ball Unit

    PG Curry
    SG Klay
    SF Iguodala
    PF Barnes*
    C Bogut*

    *Substitute Lee at C for pure offense, no rim protection needed.
    *Substitute Green in at PF for more rebounding and defense.

    Man – I’d like to see teams match up against this lineup!

  139. The odds are in…

    10-1 New look Rockets
    16-1 Warriors

  140. Warriors interested in Darren Collision. Glad to see Warriors realize they need a back-up PG. Hoopshype.

    Stephen Smith reporting that he turned down Warriors because Jackson may not be retained long- term as coach. How true is that?

  141. We’re not a better team yet. We just lost Landry, jack and Rush.

    • Don’t forget Ezeli.

      And I hesitate to mention this, but it is at the forefront of my thoughts: Will David Lee come back the same player? He’s had the same injury two years in a row now. Can he still bang with centers? For how many minutes?

      • Landry, Jack, and Rush – have never established themselves as NBA starters. They are role playing bench players!

        Ezeli? He’s a 15 minute per game player last season – with potential.

        And the W’s have cleared out their bad contracts…

        http://www.hoopsworld.com/golden-state-warriors-team-salary

      • FB, that is a very serious Q. At the very least, Lee’s injuries prove that the team must plan to reduce his minutes. If the Ws have to choose between bringing back Landry or Jack this summer, right this minute Landry is probably more important.

        Here’s an interesting take on Lee’s numbers (I don’t think the title is a fact, but the article does provide some good info):

        http://sports.yahoo.com/news/david-lee-most-overrated-golden-state-warrior-192100836.html

        • Not going to comment on this kind of reductive financial analysis, except to say that it could be used to destroy the Iguodala acquisition as well.

          • I don’t understand your comment.

            The Ws are short of bigs, and the team has clear evidence that they need to reduce Lee’s minutes for the sake of his health.

            Curry needs backup too, but Iggy/Murphy/Bazemore can help there. Currently, the only backups for Lee are two short guys, Barnes and Green. And the only backup for Bogut is Lee.

            The Ws need more bigs more than they need more smalls. You think that’s inaccurate? Please elucidate.

  142. The Spurs want Kenyon Martin.

    • The Ws need Kenyon Martin. A competent utility player for peanuts. He saved the Knicks season when various other bigs went down with injuries, and ESPN says his salary was only $170,878. I didn’t even know NBA players could earn that little.

      http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/515/kenyon-martin

      The Ws would have to accept a player with tattoos and a mean streak, though. I don’t know if they can make themselves do that.

      • Kenyon Martin – only played at the end of the season for the Knicks – perhaps that’s why his salary seems low… He was unsigned otherwise.

        Agreed – Kenyon is not the nice guy player that would fit here… Iggy is.

  143. Asik and Ryan Anderson on the block.

    • Asik’s salary is $8.4M (3 years remaining), extremely reasonable for his size and talent. It’s also within reach of the Ws, especially if (as Lacob keeps saying) the Ws are willing to exceed the cap slightly for the right people. I don’t know who the Ws could offer Houston in trade, though.

      Anderson’s season stats look almost identical to what Barnes delivered in the playoffs as a 4, but Anderson’s salary is $8.7M. Barnes probably even has more upside potential. No deal.

      • Asik is an awesome big for an affordable $8 million, but Asik likely wants to start.

        I’m assuming W’s have a salary exception and can take on contracts now that Howard is off the radar.

        @Hat – agreed – Barnes is a cheaper, more versatile, and likely better small ball 4 than Anderson right now. And Anderson – is a horrible defender. Barnes has a chance to get better.

        • Sad to say, but Asik could well start most Ws games next year – and after that Bogut is likely gone.

          I’d be surprised if Bogut didn’t sit out at least 30 games next season. At least.

  144. This is what I wrote in 2011 about Joe Lacob’s attempts to trade Monta Ellis for Andre Iguodala:

    http://feltbot.com/2011/06/11/attention-joe-lacob-the-lesson-of-the-2011-nba-finals/

    Given how Iggy’s scoring has precipitously declined in the last couple of years, and his years learning from George Karl, he may have had an attitude adjustment about his proper role. Nevertheless, I stand by what I wrote. This was by no means a cheap acquisition, not in terms of what it cost, nor in terms of what it precludes adding.

    I have been pounding the table since…. forever, that the Warriors were desperate for a wing stopper to help Curry and Lee. I was literally the only Bay Area writer who kept reiterating that the pairing of Barnes and Thompson was fatally flawed because neither is a wing stopper. The Iggy acquisition proves that Warriors management wound up agreeing with me.

    And yet what a price they paid for their soon to be 30 yr old wing stopper. Given the major holes remaining in the roster at this point, and the money remaining to fill them, I am far from convinced that the Warriors will open the season with a better team than last year’s.

    • I should point out that a large part of my analysis is based on my assumption that Joe Lacob does not want to play small ball with David Lee at center and Barnes at four, Klay, Iggy, Curry. There is no question in my mind that that is the best lineup the Warriors have fielded since We Believe, and would be fantastic to watch.

      But despite the revelation of Barnes at stretch-4 in the playoffs, I don’t believe Lacob wants to play that way. And I would be amazed if Harrison Barnes is WILLING to play major minutes at the four. I simply don’t believe that.

      Until he proves differently, I believe that Joe Lacob is committed to playing conventional basketball with a big non-scoring stiff in the middle. That places an emphasis on skills in the half-court, and makes Andre Iguodala a less effective player because of his inability to effectively spread the floor.

    • The only way to make comparisons with last year is to assume they keep Landry and Jack, paying dearly for them with the tax added. That was never in the cards for the organization, though I have to admit it would be an expensive way to maintain status quo and not worth it. And that still would have been a limited team, still with question marks at center. Bogut would have to be healthy. So Lacob & Co have put together a better team than we might have expected.

      Their salary structure will still be tight for the coming years with four big contracts. Next year, Curry, Lee, Bogut, and Igoudala will absorb $49m. The following years that amount will grow—and you have to assume Lacob, if he follows his plan, will resign Bogut or put big bucks in another center.

      Note that if Bogut goes down next season for any amount of time, they will have to play small, non-center dominated offense, and they did it successfully last season without Bogut. Add a few good pieces to the mix, and they will be quite competitive. More to the point, they’d get a lot more bang for the buck. And with Igoudala helping out on the perimeter, the load will be eased on the front court and defense will improve.

      In short, not trying to build around a center makes financial sense. It would make an equal if not better team and would save them a lot of money, giving them more options and more flexibility down the road for acquisitions.

      We have no reason to think Bogut will be a dominant post player or help that much elsewhere on offense. His health, at best is a gamble. Anyone want to give odds he’ll be full strength come playoff time? Or be able to play a full season at capacity to make a difference? It’s unlikely they’ll pick up any post player—there just aren’t many—and if they find one they’d have to tear the team apart again to pay for him.

      Start finding the fill in pieces at affordable contracts now and bring them along. Trade Bogut to pay for them.

      • Put differently, I don’t see any way the team can gamble on Bogut past next season. At the very least, his elbow won’t get better so it’s unlikely they’ll be able to count on much offense from three feet out. But the prospect could be worse. Without mobility, he just doesn’t have that much value.

        So why are they keeping him? Even with an optimistic appraisal next season, how much does he add for a playoff run? But set against that whatever they might get if they traded him for the other players they need.

        Assuming other teams are interested. Utah was, right? But was that as much for his expiring contract?

    • You’ve been pounding the table for a wing stopper… Now the #2 wing stopper in the NBA is acquired – SF have a combined PER of under 10 playing Iggy.

      The price paid – was BELOW market. $56 million from Sactown and $60 million from Denver ($52 million guaranteed) was the market. The W’s got him for $48 million!!!

      Perhaps Barnes – goes to the bench. Perhaps David Lee – goes to the bench. Perhaps Barnes – starts at PF – he can’t play worse defense than David Lee at PF!

      July 6 – the W’s cap situation is good…

      http://www.hoopsworld.com/golden-state-warriors-team-salary

      A solid bench of vets will be concocted out of the remaining monies.

      • Market value is frequently set by fools. Just because there were higher bidders doesn’t mean Iggy came cheap.

        Don Nelson and Greg Popovich built winning basketball teams by UNDERPAYING for wing stoppers. Drafting them, or pulling them out of the D-leagues. This allowed them to OVERPAY at the positions that are toughest to fill: Center, Point Guard, Power Forward.

        The Iggy acquisition must be viewed in this context. If you pay a guy who is a tremendous wing stopper — but is not an offensive star, capable of carrying your team — $12 million a year, what does that do to your ability to build a championship team?

        Is this the best route, or is finding the next Kelenna Azubuike, Mario Elie, Raja Bell, Matt Barnes, Danny Green, Kawhi Leonard, Mo Harkless, Jimmy Butler, a better route?

        The answer is not obvious. And it’s even less obvious on a team with a huge hole at the center position, no backup guards, and an owner who is completely unwilling to enter the penalty tax.

        • You’ve got it opposite FB!

          Fools gold would be to have paid Jarrett Jack – a career BACKUP JOURNEYMAN $7 or $8 million per – over 4 years. To be a 6th man… Back-up. And he doesn’t play defense… And is a dime a dozen scoring PG. The one thing he had going for him is he’s a big PG – a nice fit with Curry – and he dribbles around looking for his mid-range shot.

          Andre Iguodala – Started his whole career. And was a 2012 All-Star. Only LeBron James is a better perimeter defender. And is useful on offense as an unselfish facilitator, slasher, finisher, and rebounder.

          • Who said the only alternative to Iggy was overpaying Jarrett Jack? You’ve set up a straw man.

            Who do you think is going to play center for the Warriors next season?

            I said it before and I’ll say it again: Another Kwame Brown is headed our way.

          • My apologies re: insinuating you condoned overpaying Jarrett Jack. I wanted jack back. But Iggy is much better. A game-changing player. All-Star caliber. And worthy of $12 million per season. Best player in the Denver series. Completely disrupted Curry’s game.

            And Iggy doesn’t need to shoot on this team – his only weakness. I’d say with Curry and Klay and Barnes – the W’s have enough shooters.

  145. One of the more intriguing parts of the Iggy acquisition is the plan to play him at backup point guard. In a way that minimizes some of his offensive shortcomings. Although I’m a true believer in the value of a good-shooting point guard, and I think Jarrett Jack more than proved his worth in that role.

    It will be very interesting to see how effective an Iggy + 3 wings + 1 big lineup can be.

    • A ball-handling Nellie-ball Point Forward who’s a close friend of Stephen Curry. Iggy is a willing passer at 5.4 assists per game. Playing alongside – PG Curry, SG Klay, and PF Barnes/Green???

      #2 perimeter defender in the game.

      Since we’re being “honest” – Jarrett Jack had a LOT of shortcomings in his game… Iggy averages 1 more assist per game (and .5 turnovers) than Jarrett Jack for his career! Lol!

      • The crime would have been to get in a bidding war for Jarrett Jack’s services. A career backup and journeyman for $7 to $8 million per year???

        I’ll take the 2012 All-Star – Andre Iguodala for $12 million per and call it a day.

        And I’d play the crap out of Barnes and Green at the 4…

        And play Lee off the bench as the back up 5 to Bogut…

        Small ball heaven…

  146. Stop all this talk about Iggy, at times, playing the point

    The guys who should now go to the bench is Barnes. If Rush iwas healthy , I would have preferred Barnes being included in the trade. As we need another shooting guard to go with Thompson, and Rush was better than Barnes before he was injured. And he was arguably the Warriors best player performance wise before he sustained his injury.

    The fact that Sac was willing to overpay him, and given the fact there are a few younger and better SFs, is an indication that his FMV is virtually irrelevant. It’s only relevant in the sense we dumped far more salaries for players whose value is less.

    I would think the Warriors would have an easy time moving their two TPE’s for good players. It’s great that Bogut will be the only player coming off the books next year if not dealt beforehand.

    Felty: surely you would say coach K could coach the Celtics. Sonwhy not Stevens whose Butler team would have beat Duke, but for the refs?

    • What makes you think I would say Coach K could coach the Celtics?

      College basketball is nothing like the pros. College coaches run system basketball, pros run pick and roll and isolation. College ball is about team, Pro ball is about superstars first, then team.

      College coaches almost universally fail when they enter the pros. Part of it is that they simply lack the knowledge and experience of the pro game. Part of it is that college guys have no idea how to communicate with pro players. But the biggest part of it is that pro players simply don’t respect guys who never played or coached in the league.

      Name me one college coach who successfully made the transition, without either first playing or assisting in the league. Find one name, and get back to me.

      It’s going to be a disaster.

      • Danny Ainge is tanking. It’s so obvious, but legal. Must be a hellava draft in 2014…

        • It’s not out of the realm of possibility that Warriors fans wind up regretting the loss of the 2014 pick.

          • Agreed – 4 picks to dump those expirings – will be costly to re-enter – IN THE GOOD TALENT drafts. Utah did just fine. 4 or 5 picks to tank. Let Al Jefferson/Milsap walk. Play the young’uns. Lots of trade chips for their future.

            The W’s want to win now. And paid a high price to dump the expirings. And swung for the fences for Howard and whiffed.

            The W’s Front Office is firing on all cylinders. They have the cap space to fill out a bench. And now a huge trade exception if they are over the cap.

            In Jerry West I Trust.

          • another bogut physical collapse, one other injury to a starter, and the team will be back in the lottery, with no pick in a strong draft class.

            the roster needs to add two good reserves, and they’ve cleared budget room to do it. they have to be accurate with their evaluations and signings.

  147. Pot stirring time again.

    With the Igoudala acquisition, the Warriors will have limited funds to flesh out the club the next few seasons. Hopefully they won’t lose too badly on the draft picks they gave up. Their only other options to develop are to hope the rookies develop well enough to fill out the squad or be traded. Or trade major players. I say trade Bogut if they can.

    But I note that Barnes’s stock rose quite high in the NBA with the playoffs. Time to cash in?

    • Yes. And I think Barnes and his agent have to be completely dismayed by the Iggy signing. And probably Thompson & co. as well, until the dominoes are sorted.

      I think it’s highly likely that either Barnes or Thompson goes. I would say under any circumstance that it should be Barnes. But given the Iggy acquisition (unreliable shooter), it absolutely must be Barnes. Trading Thompson would be a disaster.

      • My guess is that Barnes isn’t going anywhere until/unless the Ws acquire another backup for Lee.

        It’s also worth noting that Thompson’s turnover/assist ratio absolutely sucks, his personal PER sucks, his Net PER sucks, he does Klayups, and he made more boneheaded mistakes than any other Ws starter this season. FWIW, he generates those lousy numbers whether he plays guard or SF.

        I like Klay. He’s a great 3-pt shooter, he was the Ws best regular wing defender this season, and his improvement this season was awesome. He shows a lot of promise for continued improvement. Losing him would hurt. But on balance, though, his performance this season was a mixed bag. He needs to continue improving. If he doesn’t, he’ll see a lot of bench time next season. In that case, the Ws might as well trade him.

  148. The W’s don’t have a luxury tax issue now! The W’s ownership are buying First and Second round draft picks. Other teams are selling them.

  149. Geez, FB.

    ALL players come with tradeoffs. Using Iggy’s skill set to max advantage will mean the Ws will have to play differently, not necessarily worse.

    Iggy has shot .451 for his career, Jack .448. His turnover/assist ratio is .49 compared to Jack’s .43 (Curry’s ratio is also .49, Thompson’s is .86!).

    Iggy’s 3-pt shooting is also slightly worse than Jack’s, but not during playoff games. Neither Iggy nor Jack shoots a lot of 3s, though, and they especially shouldn’t on the Ws.

    Iggy can defend anybody, can play most positions on the floor, and was used to initiate Denver’s go-go offense quite often last year. In short, Iggy can easily do what Jack did for the Ws, plus-plus-plus. We got a winner here. Will it be different? Of course. Worse? No.

    • The statistical analyses you are fond of employing frequently don’t make your point, and this is a prime example.

      As a pg, Jack is forced to initiate most of his own offense, under difficult circumstances. Iggy is much more of a catch and shoot player in the half court, and a wing finisher on the break. His shooting % is greatly inflated by the number of assisted layups and dunks he gets.

      Jack is a deadly midrange shooter, while Iggy is horrendous, a complete and utter brick layer.

      As for 3 point shooting, Jack is improving as he has gotten a bigger role in his career. 40% last year. And once again, he initiates most of his own shots. He’s just a much better shooter than Iguodala.

      It is amazing to me how quickly people are forgetting just how much of last year’s success was due to Jack. He was Mr. Clutch in the fourth quarter countless times, producing offense under the most difficult circumstances, such as when the unhealthy Bogut was wrecking the Warriors offensive chemistry in crunch time.

      Andre Iguodala simply doesn’t have that kind of ability. In fact, he’s the opposite, one of the LEAST clutch players in the league. That was the determined opinion of Philly fans, who frequently booed him on the court, and couldn’t wait to see him shipped out.

      I see you don’t mention FT%, which just may be the most important comparison of all. How many times did Jack step to the stripe with the game on the line last year, and bury both? Iguodala shot 57% last year, the most wretched number I have EVER seen in a starting guard. And that number has gotten worse for four straight years.

      Iguodala made Philly fans pull their hair out in fourth quarters. I would bet everything I have that the same thing happens here next year, despite all the current euphoria. Go back and read the bitching here when Klay Thompson, of all people, missed a shot last year. Go back and take a look at Adam Lauridsen cringing every time Stephen Jackson hoisted a three.

      I like a lot of the things that Iggy does. But he is a very flawed player to spend $12m per year on starting at the age of 30. It’s an interesting move, but one that leaves as many questions as it answers, given the state of the Warriors roster. What the Warriors have done, in a nutshell, is trade offense for defense, and trade bench depth for a name player. How that will play out in the win column is not immediately self-evident to me, and won’t be at least until the final roster is assembled.

      Just keeping it real.

      • The reality is that Iggy’s effective FG% and clutch stats this year were a lot better than Jack’s. Add in his D, and there’s no contest.

        Also, while Jack did take and make a lot of clutch shots this season, you really have to question whether he was the right guy to be shooting in crunch time. He should have been working to get Curry or Lee the shot instead of only looking for his own. 82games’ clutch stats show Jack as the worst finisher among Warriors guards this season, not the best.

  150. MT2: Jarret Jack is signing with Cavs for 4yrs/$25m.

    I guess that means that Iggy is precisely twice as valuable as he is.

    • woeyr fans will at least be spared seeing jack in the western conference. you don’t really think we mistake cost for value here, boss ? lacob likes flashing his fondness for the prestige, fancy labelled goods, with value a lower priority.

  151. ranadive is continuing to build a winner for Sac, with the signing of landry, four years 27 m. he’ll provide malone peer reinforcement in the psychological rehab of cousins.

    • Given these salaries, one way to view the Iggy acquisition is as if the Warriors traded Jack and Landry for him. That should provide an interesting source of discussion.

      For the record, I admire Carl Landry, but am not a fan of his game. I am a big fan of Jack’s game, and think the Cavs got a steal.

      • The W’s have lots of cap space left. Lots of players out there. Wait until at least the fat lady walks to the podium before booing.

        One could also say Ranadive lost the Iggy sweepstakes with a $56 million dollar offer not accepted.

        One could just as well say Richard Jefferson + 2014 #1 for Iggy.

        The Cavs will be helped by Jack – who’ll be the best backup point guard in the NBA playing behind two up and coming PG/SG tandem.

      • it’s comforting to know you’re liberal with your praise of jack, ’cause he would seem a mis-fit in a fast tempo, open court offense (average or below in running a break) and was fond of his own dribble in half court. in some ways his game resembles the legendary ellis. he could do well for Brown’s deliberate style in Cle, with talented young back court ‘mates.

        Cle otherwise is a strange place to end up. bennett, their controversial first pick plays the same position as another young player they were developing, t.thompson, but it might be one of those ‘accumulating assets’ moves. the team is owned and run by a trio who printed money during the mortgage and loan bubble and probably got paid again in with part of the bail out trillions. the exec running the hoops side learned his trade in Atl, not particularly noted for its success.

  152. Can’t ignore the numbers… Or reality… One cannot base an Iggy opinion by reading 76er fan blogs.

    Fact: Igoudala takes out and whips the BEST OFFENSIVE PLAYERS on opposing teams. Thompson will now guard the 2nd best perimeter player. Iggy’s a HUGE difference maker on DEFENSE. And he doesn’t hurt the offense as a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th option or as a facilitator. Thankfully, Iggy doesn’t need to shoot much on this team.

    http://www.82games.com/1213/12DEN5.HTM

    Jarrett Jack barely moves the needle in being a difference maker on the court. It’s like whatever he does on offense he gives up on defense.

    http://www.82games.com/1213/12GSW2.HTM

  153. Felty: Maybe you’re right about college coaches not transitioning well to the pros. Coach K has done well coaching our Olympic team. That’s somewhat equivalent to pro ball. Was Larry Brown ever successful coaching in the pros?

    I don’t really care if jack hits jumpers and Iggy makes lay-ups. If their two point shooting percentage is comparable, who cares? I agree, for now, jack is a big loss.

    I agree that Barnes and Bogut should be traded to improve the team .lee is going to be needed next year more than most expect.

    With the addition of Iggy, does everyone think that Jackson will have the Warriors run in order to exploit his skills?

    We still have a way to go before one can exclaim we will have a good team next year.

    PeteBrian: you leave the impression that everything this Warriors management has done in the past is great and every player they draft is betters than other players we could have drafted. You think virtually every player on roster is terrific. We get it. But, theWarriors have made some terrible as well as some good decisions., and many if their players are not as good as you portray them as being.

    • warriorsablaze

      Considering you, rgg, and Felty only provide never-ending daily criticism and negative spin on every Lacob move… I’d say an occasional positive poster makes this blog a bit less tiresome. The bizarre Lacob obsession around here gets in the way of the basketball analysis; which is what used to make this blog good and interesting. Most of the old posters don’t hang around here anymore, just leaving the Felty minions and the Lacob fixated to scream into the echo-chamber. It’s pretty sad around here.

    • Olympic basketball is nothing like the pro game. No one’s fighting for a contract. No one’s getting paid for stats.

      Larry Brown was a professional basketball player, who had a storied career in the ABA, before becoming a coach.

  154. Actually Jack didn’t draw as much as some predicted, and apparently neither was actively pursued by a top team.

    Everyone gives credit to Landry and Jack for tipping the scales towards a winning season and both were well received here. But were they worth keeping? Both got 4 year contracts at around $6m. Would the Warriors have had to match? Lock in both for the same number of years? Also, while I don’t know all the possible scenarios, most would have involved a steep tax to boot. The trade that ended their exceptions also freed up some money. The Warriors can now spend around $14m next season without paying tax? (Is that right?)

    They’re about $2.6m under the cap now (right?). But they’ve only got 8 guaranteed players next season, and they’re going to have to fill out the roster somehow—and pay for it.

    • I don’t understand the sense of urgency regarding the W’s cap/luxury tax situation. The W’s swiftly cleaned their financial house – when many said it couldn’t be done. It cost them future picks – which may or may not bite them later.

      The W’s have 6 players/prospects who are probably at $1 million per year or so. Now roster at 11-14 players depending on who sticks.

      Bazemore
      Machado
      Nedovic
      Kuzmic
      Kevin Murphy
      Dwayne Jones

      Lots of cap room to sign two vets – PF/C Brandan Wright or PG Darren Collison for $4-$8 million – TOTAL, not EACH.

      Perhaps Jack’s and Landry’s and Rush’s and Lee’s agent – were asking for too much??? They were luxuries the W’s chose to pass on.

      W’s should never again overpay role players.

  155. Warriorblaze: I fully expected such a response. I said that I supported the recent trade given the bad circumstances management placed itself in. I guess you loved the Warriors not amnestying Biedrins.

    I’ll even go so far as to say the ship is beginning to be be facing the right direction . Let’s see what happens next.

    This site is hardly moving in lock-step.
    Felty has praised Jackson, a sentiment I don’t share else. Felty has provided the best analysis in the bay area. who else said that Barnes should play PF?

    And Rgg, Moto, and Hat, all have their own views.

  156. Hat@157:

    You know who else’s effective FG% was better than Jack’s this season? Andris Biedrins. The stat is garbage unless it is put in context. Role players frequently shoot better than point guards, because their shots are so much easier. That’s “the reality.”

    As for the clutch stats cited, they are total BS. You know whose clutch stats were better than both Iggy’s and Jack’s? Mario Chalmers. And Bird Man Andersen, and…. yeah, the entire Miami Heat bench.

    Iggy played on the BEST team in the NBA after the all-star break. Do you think that affected his “team’s production while he was on the floor in the last five minutes?”

    The Nuggets point differential was a full 4 points over the Warriors last season.

    Stats cannot just be quoted mindlessly. They must be thought about, and applied in the context of our understanding of the game.

    Here’s what I think “clutch” means: 1) Able to initiate your own shot in crunch time 2) Able to hit open 3s 3) Able to hit your foul shots.

    Iggy is not even close to Jack in any of those three categories. And the stats you cite show that Jack scored 33 pts per 48 in the clutch for the Warriors, while Iggy scored 22 per 48 for the Nuggets. Albeit with less efficient shooting. Or was it less efficient? The site only lists FG% and eFG%, neither of which take into account free throws. Are free throws important at the end of the game? Jack made 16 per 48 in crunch time, while Iggy made 5. More than 3 times as many. Jack shoots 82% from the line, while Iggy shoots 57%. Which % would you regard as clutch?

    The fact of the matter is that at the end of the game, Jack was asked to produce in isolation, or in the pick and roll, where it is much more difficult to shoot a high percentage. Most of Iggy’s shots, by contrast, came off the ball. You say “the reality is”, but what you state couldn’t be any further away from true reality.

    The fans wanted Iggy out in Philadelphia, booing him unmercifully:

    http://articles.philly.com/2013-03-23/sports/37940129_1_sixers-notes-76ers-teammates-andre-iguodala

    Was that because he was clutch?

    And Iggy wanted out of Philly just as bad as the fans wanted him out. Why? Because his coach didn’t want him to shoot, particularly at the end of games.

    http://www.comcastsportsnet.com/landing?blockID=787283&feedID=694

    Did Collins want him to stop shooting and start passing because he was so clutch?

    Here’s the opinion of a veteran Iggy watcher: “The finest role player in the league.” “Big contract. Good, but not great player.”

    http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/11/1/3584854/andre-iguodala-nuggets-vs-sixers-philadelphia

    Does that sound clutch?

    I have not been sticking my head out on a limb here, as I am wont to do with my snap evaluations of rookies. Andre Iguodala is a known quantity. And as much as you and other Warriors fans want to feel euphoria at this signing, I happen to know that there are going to be a lot of disappointed groans emitting from the forums come January.

    Andre Iguodala is NOT a clutch player. He is a 57% free throw shooter, nearly as bad as Bogut, who was subjected to intentional hacking in the playoffs. He is the LAST player you want with the ball in his hands at the end of the game.

    Unlike Jarrett Jack.

    • Thankfully Iggy does not have to be clutch for the Warriors. The pecking order includes Curry, Thompson and even Barnes ahead of him. His defense is clutch, though.

      Secondly, the fact that he was a major piece of the best team after the break in the NBA certainly should play a factor inyour analysis.

  157. The W’s roster is turning into a team with better and better mix of defensive players.

    Two elite NBA Defensive Player of the Year-caliber players:
    C Andrew Bogut
    SF Andre Iguodala

    Three good defensive players:
    SG Klay Thompson
    SF/PF Draymond Green
    C Festus Ezeli

    Very good defensive reserve:
    Kent Bazemore

    Stephen Curry – is a superstar player – like Tony Parker – can take a rest on defense.

    David Lee – his role needs to change now that the team is getting better. Either he backs up Bogut at Center (with Draymond Green/Harrison Barnes at small ball PF), plays where the opposing Center has no offensive game, playing limited minutes with Andrew Bogut.

  158. Iggy use to shoot over 70 percent at the fouline. Why he has declined is puzzling. More significant, it appears his trips too the foul line has declined over the last few years if the stats I reviewed are accurate.

    To say that Eleli, Bazemore, and Green sre good defenders when the Warriors get outscored with either is on the court is more an indication they should be replaced with better players.

    Bogut was nowherevthe defender than Udoh was.

    As Felty pointed out, the Warriors scoring differential was less tha one point. Which means the Warriors were a marginal team that by far exceed what sts indicated. Right now with the loss of Landry, jack, and rush, and the injury to Exeli, the Warrios need to continue to improve the roster with at least four more players if they are to succeed next year. But the Warriors nor have TPE’s and tradable players to improve the roster. Iggy is a good first step and one of Denver pieces that helped Denver outscored their opponents by four points per game. The players lost have to be replaced for the Warriors to succeed.

    The Warriors interior defense was just marginal last year with an injured Bogut. He has to go. His garnering a decent number of OR’ds is offset by his inability to put the ball back in. Asik is much better. Get him. Let Bigut play bac up until we trade him as egg suggests.

    • In the W’s-Denver Round 1 Series – Andrew Bogut dominated the paint against a 57-win team… DOMINATED. The W’s even beat the 38-3 Nuggets on their home court. If Lee didn’t play game 1, the W’s would have won Game 1 as well…

      And the W’s even beat the Spurs on their homecourt – 1st time in the Tim Duncan Era! Lol! And were 4 minutes and Jack/Curry butterfingers away from going 2-0 on the road against the Spurs…

      Asik is good but unavailable to the W’s. So I’ll take Andrew Bogut and hope a summer’s rest will help his ankle heal or grow cartilage or whatever. Bogut at 20-25 minutes and a healthy and improving Ezeli at 15 minutes with the rest going to a Lee small ball lineup – really should be enough at center.

      Sure – the W’s need a cheap veteran pacebo Center/PF to eat up minutes. Jermaine O’Neil, Brandan Wright, whoever. Those guys are no difference-makers.

      The W’s core is set, signed, young, and talented.

      • Bogut dominated a puny/injured front line of Koufos/McGee and Faried/Chandler, after getting shot up with horse tranquilizer. His ankle blew up for good facing real men in the next series.

        Ezeli is out 6-9 months.

        David Lee is coming off his second abdominal surgery in as many years.

        Iguodala is 30.

        Jermaine O’Neal and Brandan Wright are… Aw hell, forget it.

        Carry on.

        • Jack is older than Iguodala.

          Bogut dominated in the paint. Against rim attackers. Against a 57-win team many here on this blog commend constantly…

      • Bogut’s numbers weren’t that good against San Antonio or Denver, except for that ugly final game, where Denver was rattled and Bogut went bananas on the boards.

        Where you really saw his liability was against a well balanced team like San Antonio. Because he had no offense, the Spurs, once they made the adjustment, were able to play soft on him and tighten up on Klay and Curry and shut them down. We saw the results the last two games.

  159. @Frank
    You are underrating the Warriors most definitely. And overrating the Orlando Magic.

    The NBA oddsmakers are at 16-1 for the W’s winning it all.
    The Orlando Magic? 300-1. I think the oddsmakers are often wrong, but not THAT wrong…

    Our Golden State Warriors – presently constructed with reasonable health – are a 50-55 win team, depending on who they build out their bench with. The W’s won 47 games without Iguodala – and with four rookies, a second year starter, and a handicapped center.

    If Bogut and Rush were healthy at all last year, the W’s would have won 50-55 games. Last year.

    So what’s not to be optimistic about???

  160. @165

    Felt, I’ll see your negative articles about Iggy and raise you with even more about Jack’s game.

    Naw, nevermind. Let’s leave it at this: the Ws could have counter-offered against Cleveland to keep Jack. It’s not as if he got a huge raise, or an opportunity to advance to a starting spot, or a promise of more playing time, or more winning, or even a better locker room environment. He took a fairly modest raise to sit on the bench some more on yet another young team. The Ws could have matched that offer. They did not. For very good reasons.

    Jack is a backup player, not a star. And a guy who rarely got the ball to the best closers on the Warriors – two of the best in the NBA – when the game was on the line.

    You want to congratulate Jack for creating and making his own shots, fine. I always wanted him to run the offense instead. I felt that his crunch time tunnel vision hurt the team more than it helped. The Warriors apparently agree. Other teams do too. He’s not going anywhere to be a starter.

    • In point of fact, the Warriors couldn’t have counter-offered for Jack. They had to renounce his rights to sign Iggy. Something about a cap hold I think.

      “For very good reasons.” I think there are a lot of unspoken reasons why the Warriors made this big name signing, not all of them having to do with basketball. Beginning with the reason that they were about to be spurned for what, the fourth of fifth straight time, by a big-name free agent? And ending with the reason that the fan base is as electrified by this move as they were by the Bogut trade.

      Moto gets it. “Season ticket holders form on the left, please.”

      One final time: I am not arguing that the Warriors should have kept Jack. I think they have extraordinarily pressing needs at center, now that Ezeli is out.

      I just find it ridiculous that people are denigrating Jack’s game, now that the Warriors have renounced him. Most of whom were arguing weeks ago that it was absolutely necessary that he be re-signed, and that it was absolutely certain that the Warriors would find a way to do so.

      Jarrett Jack is a terrific player, and I am 100% certain that the Warriors are going to miss him badly in crunch time next season — particularly if they try to play big. It is highly possible that the value of his contract has nothing to do with his true value, just like Iggy’s. Or Bogut’s. Or Bynum’s. Or Agent Zero’s. Or Joe Johnson’s. Or Kawhi Leonard’s. Or Jimmy Butler’s. Or Matt Barnes’. Or…

      I make my own judgements, and in my opinion, even though Cleveland probably made Jack the highest paid backup-point in the league, they got an absolute bargain. And although Iggy is a fine player, I don’t think the same can be said for the Warriors.

  161. Iggy leaves the 76ers – they falter. Coach fired.

    http://www.nbauniverse.com/teams/records_philadelphia_76ers.htm

    Iggy plays for the Nuggets – the team wins the most games in Denver history

    http://www.nbauniverse.com/teams/records_denver_nuggets.htm

  162. Andre Iguodala’s “clutch” gene in the NBA Playoffs – with video.

    2013 Playoffs – W’s/Nuggets – Iggy averages 18 PPG, shoots 50% from the field, .483 from 3 pt, 72% free throws, averaged 8 RPG, 5.3 assists, and 2.0 steals – while playing elite defense.

    2012 Playoffs – 76ers/Bulls – Iggy rebound, Iggy dribbles coast to coast, Iggy attacks the rim against the 7-footer Asik, draws the foul, and cans BOTH free throws for the 76ers first playoff series win since 2003 – and the 5th time in NBA history that an 8th seed beat a 1 seed.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1vxwONt6g

    2009 Playoffs – Iggy takes Turkoglu off the dribble for a step-back jumper for the lead. Then defends against Turkoglu’s last second miss. 76ers win. Andre had a great series, averaging 21.5 points per game, 6.3 rebounds per game, and 6.7 assists per game.

  163. feltbot: I think your assumption is wrong, in part. To me, the Iggy signing is a harbinger that the Warriors are moving in the direction we saw in the playoffs: Against appropriate matchup teams, we’ll see Bogut/tbd/Ezeli at the 5 and a mix of Barnes and Lee at 4. Against appropriate teams, we’ll see Lee at 5 and Barnes at 4. We are going to see quite a bit of Barnes at 4 this year. I don’t like names like “small ball” bc they are not specific and descriptive enough. But if you like watching Bogut/Lee/Ezeli at 5, Barnes at 4, Iggy at 2/3 and Thompson at 2/3, you will be happy watching the Warriors going forward.

    • If you are correct that these moves signify that Lacob has seen the light regarding smallball, then I absolutely agree with you OT, I will be very happy with the way things turn out. Provided that Lee returns healthy, and holds up throughout the season.

      Particularly because smallball makes so many of their current players much better players: Curry, Lee, and Barnes as we have seen, and now Iggy. Iggy is in my opinion a devastating running game player, but a very mediocre offensive player in the halfcourt. If your team has spacing problems, he magnifies them, as we saw with Denver once Gallinari got injured.

      Klay Thompson is the only Warrior whom I believe would be equally good in a walk-it-up offense.

  164. Per Iggy’s comments just after signing (re: coach Jackson giving Dubs players confidence), I’m going to predict that he will thrive with the Dubs. He’s not an alpha-type psychologically and Jackson’s encouraging style is likely to help him to assert himself with confidence.
    It’s funny how, as Feltbot noted, Jackson threw his team under the bus frequently in his first year as coach (absolving his own responsibility), but last year went the opposite way and had his player’s backs – sometimes at the expense of truthfulness in my opinion. I don’t think this is the right coaching or media style for every player or every team as some player’s will run wild with unquestioned support. However, players like HB, KT, SC & FE are helped through enhanced self-confidence and assert themselves well, within the definitions of team play. I believe Jackson will have a similar affect on Iggy, unleashing not the effort parts of his game (eg: defense, rebounding), but the skill parts, which are primarily on the offensive side.
    I also agree with Our Team at #172 about the line-up tendencies we’ll see if this roster stays the same, though for defense’s sake, I hope Bogut is somewhat healthy and that Festus heals quickly -otherwise it’s a layup/dunk line for the other team while rebounding suffers. Hoped for addition 1A is a good paint protector/rebounder.
    Adding Iggy as a crunch time ball handler against increased ball pressure is a plus, not only because of his skill. His length and athleticism (strength, quickness and leaping ability) will give him the ability to gain separation from defenders or capture the ball against pressure on inbounds – an area of huge inadequacy for the Warriors, made visible in the playoffs against both Denver and SA. Perhaps a greater minus in this area will be the loss of Jack, though he was a big part of the problem while also being one of the only solutions. Therefore, hoped for addition 1B is another secure ball handler. Hopefully a confident and very quick PG that will hit his FTs in the 4th quarter like Jack did.
    Summary: I think the Warriors are improved by Iggy and the loss of Jack/Landry. As is and without significant injury, I believe they have enough to get into the middle of the the playoff rung (5,6,7). The game changes in the playoffs, as we have seen, and additions 1A and 1B are the necessary pieces to heal the Dubs 2 (!) achilles heals.

    • +1 From his comments both in the past and regarding the move to the Warriors, it’s clear that what Iggy wants most of all is a green light. I think he is correct in assuming that Jackson will give it to him, particularly from three, and I do think that will be both good for his game and for the team, regardless of his percentage. The Warriors (and fans) will just have to live with his streakiness.

      Iggy excelled in the Nuggets system, which I believe had the fastest pace in the league. If you and OT are correct, and this move signifies that the Warriors are about to up the pace, then no one will be more ecstatic than me.

  165. Just for the sake of argument, I suppose instead of taking Igoudala the Warriors could have used the money they freed up to take Landry and Jack? The timing would have been close. I assume they would have waited to see if they could have signed Howard outright, the time Jack and Landry were in negotiations elsewhere. If so, that means keeping Landry and Jack but losing Rush?

    It’s hard to play this game, however, when you have to play by Lacob’s and the league’s rules, neither of which I understand. And I doubt keeping them was ever in the cards.

    At the very least, Jack could spell Curry or play point, giving Curry a break from running the team and getting him off the ball. I don’t know who can do that now, and Curry has to play fewer minutes next year.

    I’m kind of in the mood to feel upbeat about the team. Igoudala didn’t have the scorers at Denver or Philly he’ll have at GS, especially Klay and Curry. If he can facilitate with assists and present the threat to drive, will he open up the offense better 4th. Q? And the perimeter defense will certainly be better.

    But I can’t see how the club as constructed now can play a full 48 minutes or adjust to the ups and downs of the season, of injuries. They’ve got to fill the roster out. They can’t run the starters hard all season again. I suppose, now that they’re below the threshold, they’ll be able to do something now or later in the season?

  166. I don’t think enough emphasis has been made in the media yet just how radical an idea it is to make Iggy the back-up point guard. He’s always been a point-forward, but I’m pretty sure he hasn’t yet played without a point-guard on the floor. Certainly not in Denver, where Karl always had either Lawson or Miller (or both) on the floor at all times.

    I can think of a few reasons why this might not work: Intense ball-pressure from quicker defenders. Not enough other distributors on the floor. Difficulty running pick and roll. Etc.

    But if it does work, it is a brilliant move in the way that it will minimize Iggy’s half-court deficiencies, which center around his poor outside shooting as a wing.

    It would be interesting to know whose conception this plan was.

    • I wonder what Nelson would do with Iggy? Any thoughts Feltbot? Point guard or point forward, I think he’d capitalize on Iggy’s ball handling skills v. his match up, or his paint skills v. quicker, smaller defenders. In either case, I think Nelson would see the match up strength on the offensive end and let that trump anything else. I think Iggy could distribute to shooters as a point forward threat to get past his slower defender, or kick outs from the paint areas if he draws a double team with a smaller defender on him. Either way, he’d be getting his shooters shots. Nelson would like that.
      Anyway, will be interesting to see how they advance the ball into scoring opportunities against the quicker, athletic defenses like Miami’s.

    • I don’t think he will really be the backup point guard per say. I think he will replace 60% of Jack’s minutes (the part where he and Curry played at the same time and Curry was largely off the ball). Someone else will have to be the primary ballhandler when Curry is resting or if he is injured, that’s not AI’s best role.

      Also, I think that AI will have more open spot up looks than he’s ever seen, and the need for him shooting contested shots off the dribble should be less than ever. He should shoot career high percentages (if not something is wrong with how he is being used).

  167. PeteyBian:Contrary to your assertion I think if the Warriors make the right moves then can win it all next year. But, they’re not going to do it with Bogut can it, and I repeat, cannot provide weak side help, period. His last
    two years proved that. And in the playoffs. you can’t play him in the fourth quarter because he’s a lousy foul shooter, and will be forced off the court, he can serve, if healthy, as a positive back-up, unlike Ezeli.

    And a frontline of Bogut and Barnes is disaster in the making. Regardless of Lee’s deficiencies defensively inside, Barnes is 10 times worse. And Lee out shoots Barnes from the field, gets to the foul-link ore, and gives the Warriors more extra possessions via offensive rebounds.put Ll on bench, warriors falter.

    Obtaining J. O’Neal as the Wasiors are attempting to do is is joke.

    The Warriors need Asik and Udoh. Get them, and add a back-up PG like Andre Miller, we play Miami in finals.

    I regret disparaging D. Green. Hopefully, Green can play this year like he did in the playoffs.

    • I like the idea of Asik or Udoh or both. With regard to spreading and spacing, while not sacrificing too much rebounding, D. Green may be a very, very essential piece. How well he connects on threes, or how much of a threat he is to hit his threes next year will determine a lot of his value. He could be a very, very important piece. Likewise, how well Barnes’ shooting improves will also be key, especially if the now-crowded wing puts him at the 4.

  168. Semi-interesting vid:

    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9299243

    “When the Warriors play four 3-point shooters, they’re 27 points better than an average team.”

    Another way of looking at that is that when the Ws could play 4 shooters, they did extremely well with it. That sounds like a plan, but unfortunately, it’s not always an option.

    When other teams defended well against 3-point shooting, or when they had enough success attacking the paint to force the Ws to insert a 2nd big for D, the Ws weren’t as good. It doesn’t take advanced stats to figure that out.

    Ya can’t always get what you want.

    If next season’s Ws can only play small, they’re going to have problems. No single style of attack is unstoppable. Even Miami changed up their approach throughout the playoffs, depending on the opposition and game conditions. For example, there’s no way the Heat game-planned around Birdman, but he was better than +20 in the playoffs. Anderson was the right guy at the right times.

    Frank, no one is wild about Jermaine O’Neal, but if he’s the best big available, I think the Ws have to try to sign him. Even our High Priest of SmallBall is concerned about the team having enough beef. Of course Asik or Udoh would do better, but any backup/insurance behind Bogut and Lee would be better than none.

    • brand is a former Phi teammate of iguodala, and for two way skills and smarts would be pretty ideal as the reserve 5. we don’t know how much Dal wants to keep him or how he likes carlisle and the team. defensively, which was after all where ezeli contributed, dalembert is probably equivalent to o’neal, and he also played with iguodala in Phi.

      • Brand is a class act, and his price tag is a lot lower than the last time the Ws went after him, 5 years ago:

        http://blog.sfgate.com/warriors/2008/07/02/the-elton-brand-update-not-expecting-anything-to-happen-today/

        He’s lost a step or 2, but still knows his way around the hoop.

        Dalembert would be a plus too, but his salary is a lot higher, up around Asik’s. In that range, Asik is younger and probably a better player.

        • d’alembert is a free agent and might wish to return to northern calif. for what might be his final n.b.a. contract. can’t predict what salary level he’s looking for. the haitian is another member of the association’s ‘class act’ fraternity. either brand or d’alembert would be good tutors for the likes of ezeli, green, barnes, and their skills mesh well with lee’s. asik though is completely under the contractual control of Hou, and his deal balloons next season, its final year, to 14 m. +(which would be second only to lee on GS). last word from Hou, they don’t want to accommodate asik, which is a signal to its competitors that the trade ransom will be high.

  169. The warriors are not going to win an NBA final with Bogut as our starting center.

    Would like to see if Billips has anything lft in the tank. Could be terrific combo guard for us if he does.

  170. Hickson gone to Denver at 5m+ x 3 years.

    • we might not see any further activity from the lacobites until 10 July. potentially they have the trade exceptions from off loading biedrins, jefferson, rush and draft picks, which can be used like coupons, so they’d prefer to get iguodala via sign and trade, if Den (or Den plus a third team) is interested in those coupons (which can’t be combined). they do have the option of signing iguodala outright, and they’d still be under the cap with his salary obligations, but the lacobites might not want to sit holding those exceptions until the mid season trading deadline.

      mullin received a sizable trade exception in the infamous j.rich to Cha deal (because salary was getting shipped out but not taken back in), but as we should all recall fondly, that coupon expired without getting redeemed, despite the need that season for an experienced back up for b.davis. failure to reinforce the bench cost the team a playoff spot, and it was the first sign that rowell was overruling mullin in the front office.

      • Thanks—and I don’t understand a word. If you want give a primer here, I (and probably others) would be grateful, but if not no sweat.

        But briefly, I assume that means we won’t hear anything until July 10?

        I am waiting for the other shoe(s) to drop. The trade won’t mean much unless the Warriors make some other deals to shore up the ranks.

  171. Didn’t the Warriors already do the sign and trade for Iggy with Utah?

    Not getting Hickson is a big loss. Warriors said price too high.

    • iguodala is a free agent, but he still has the option of re-signing with Den with the proviso that he’s getting traded to oaktown. d.lee was a free agent, but re-signed with NY first, because GS had no room in the cap to sign him without off loading contractual obligations.

      another way of looking at the trade exceptions is in the ‘c.b.a. for dummies’. it’s a time delay (deferred) three team trade. with the trade exceptions, the third team isn’t known at the time of the original deal. in the j.rich for Cha draft pick trade, if mullin had used the trade exception, the third team would be getting that coupon for the player it shipped to GS. Cha couldn’t trade for rich and his fat contract if it didn’t have cap room. with the iguodala trade, UT can’t take in the three contracts from GS if it didn’t have the cap room, in part made possible with the departure of both jefferson and milsap.

    • there are at least two sources for ‘n.b.a. salary cap for dummies’ which explain the trade exception and other arcana, the wikipedia entry for n.b.a. salary cap, and cbafaq.com. please do not rely on my inadequate summary or depend on me for further elucidation of the potential can of worms the lacobites have opened by getting cap space and trade exceptions rather than players (one non guaranteed contract on a second round pick was the sole UT player involved) from UT in the deal.

  172. OK, here’s one link, updated to 2013, if anyone wants to help me out.

    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm

    Would they have acquired the 1st. round pick this draft so they could trade away other picks later, as they, in fact, did, and thus avoided whatever the rule was that prevented trading away consecutive picks?

    I’m also confused how teams like the Lakers and the Knicks can run up a tax bill, when there are so many rules. Can the Warriors, in fact, acquire players that put them over the cap, and into the threshold where tax cuts in?

    I’m relieved they’re getting their financial house in order and cutting the waste. I suppose the FO deserves credit for some crafty moves.

    On the other hand, we have to question how well they have managed their cap, exceptions, and amnesty in the first place, which got them into this bind and limited their options. Again, the lingering effects of the Bogut trade.

    • OK, I gotta punt. But I think the answers are in 80-83, link above.

      I assume we’ll know more in a few days.

    • I’ll take a shot at the draft picks question. The “Stepien Rule” only prevents committing 1st picks in 2 consecutive FUTURE years. Not to belabor the obvious, but once a draft is over, it is no longer in the future. So trading back into the 1st rd in 2013, was not necessary to pull off the trade they made with Utah that gave up the 2014 pick. That’s because when the Utah trade was made it was after the 2013 draft and the Warriors had 0 future picks committed and thus no restrictions at all on trading picks.

      This rule does have implications for the next several offseasons. We have committed to trade 1st rd picks in 2014 and 2017, so it looks like the Dubs structured the 2 future picks to Utah so that once the 2014 draft is over they will have the opportunity to shop their 2015 pick.

      • correcto, re. the ‘Stepien rule’. it’s ironic, that after the lottery campaign season aimed at delaying UT one more year from cashing in the m.williams pick, the 2013 draft completing the trade at last, the lacobites almost immediately ship a big package of draft picks to UT that will affect them another four seasons. if they stick to their mantra of asset accumulation, they won’t really count themselves out of those drafts. they can buy or trade themselves into getting picks for 2014 or 2017.

      • Makes sense. Thanks. And that explains why they didn’t give away 1st. picks in 2014 and 2015—they couldn’t.

  173. It would seem the Warriors should move quickly to solidify their roster. The decent free agents are slipping away. Time to make trades.

    Iggy will really help next year. His average of four additional points over the opponents per game is huge. The Warriors have no one like that. With such production it’s misleading to site any particular sub- par stat of his offensively.

    I use to laugh to myself when posters pointed out that Udoh only shot 43 percent even though he took few shots, and didn’t get many defensive rebounds, even when he produced many extra possessions via OR’s, blocked shots, and steals in only 18 minutes of playing time, and he created a bigh scoring differential like Iggy does, if not more.

    Thompson and bar tens low PER’s is cause for concern. Now is the time to trade Barnes as he has some value.

  174. Actually, I wonder why Denver took Hickson. Their front court is loaded. Unless they’re planning to trade someone.

    • I think you’re onto something here… Interesting…

      W’s need a S&T from Denver for Iggy. The W’s wanted Hickson in the past. Perhaps there’s a deal in the works…

  175. Offense starts on the defensive end of the court with steals and blocked shots, and continues on the offensive end with OR’s and assists, as wellas shooting, foul shooting and turnovers.

    Before ever citing fg and ft percentage, one has to Lloyd at blocked shots, steals, assists, and offensive rebounds. In these later categories, both Barnes and Thompson fall woefully short.

  176. I should have addefd altering shots. While about can match Udoh in blocked shots he doesn’t come anywhere near Udoh in altering shots on the weak side as he can’t anticipate or move quick enough to get the the shooter. As a result the shooter scores while Udoh is altering the shot and making the guy miss. I suspect and hope that Asik is like Udoh.

    • Hey Frank, just wondering, are you using a phone with auto-type to write comments?

      • I like Udoh – as a frontcourt pair with David Lee. Lee can’t block a shot to save his life and Udoh can block shots for the both of them.

        However, Udoh’s rebounding numbers were what was bothersome to me.

        Like Ezeli, anything you get offensively from Udoh – was a bonus…

  177. Here’s another page on Traded Player Exceptions:

    http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2012/06/traded-player-exception.html

    And the Warriors should have two, totaling around $20m? Apparently, if you don’t use ‘em you lose ‘em? I’m not sure we know the exact terms of the deal, though.

    Hey, Hat! Figure this out!

    • After reading up on this, I think the Traded Player Exceptions may not ever exist, depending on the details of the transactions. To get a TPE you have to be over the cap. If you are under the cap, then you don’t need or get a cap exception, you use your cap space. So what the Warriors need to do is actually stay OVER the cap to get the TPE. Teams over the cap can trade players to other teams and accept players back that make as much or less. So to get these TPEs, we need to get Denver to agree to sign and trade Iguodala to us. If they don’t agree to that, then we do the Utah trade by itself and use the cap space to sign Iguodala as has already been reported. In that case we get Iggy but no TPE.

      So we use the threat of Denver losing the player for nothing, to get them to participate in the sign and trade. Once that happens, here is how the TPEs work. We trade Jefferson’s $11million contract and take back $0, so we get a 11mil TPE. Similar deal for Biedrins and Rush at their salary levels. Then Denver signs Iggy for a 4 year deal that starts at $11 this year, so he fits into the Jefferson TPE. We use the Jefferson TPE to accept Iguodala in the trade. At this point, Denver is likely taking back $0 salary, so they get their own $11mil TPE, which could be used to acquire a different player, so that’s part of the reason for Denver to participate.

      But if Denver decides they’d rather not help competitors, or decides that they don’t want their own TPE because they rather just tank, then they can force us to go under the cap and acquire Iggy using cap space. Once we do that, we cannot get a TPE and our options for filling out the roster are very limited.

      The work on this deal is far from done and we won’t know how limited we are going forward until we see how the final transaction is structured on July 10th.

      If Denver then trades Iguodala for a 2nd rd pick, then they created an 11 millio

      • Arrgh… Post got cut off. Oh well, I’ll just add 1 more thing. The end result IF Denver does agree to a sign and trade. We will have received 3 TPEs (1 each for Jefferson, Biedrins and Rush), and we will have used the biggest one of those to acquire Iguodala. That would leave us with a 9 mil TPE from Biedrins and a 4mil TPE from Rush that could be used in the next calendar year, and we would also have the full midlevel cap exemption, which is $5million to use on other free agents. So if they pull off the sign and trade then they will have lots of options for filling out the roster.

        If they cannot pull that off, I believe they will have only about $2-3 million to spend on free agents and no TPEs. Their options would be very slim indeed.

        • Thanks, CK, and I think it’s starting to sink in. In brief, though, the Warriors are sitting on their hands until the deal is finalized, hopefully July 10? This would explain why they didn’t go after Hickson, say—they may only have about $3m if the TPEs don’t go through. (Is it correct that you can’t acquire a player unless the deal keeps you under the cap?)

          Do feel free to go over this again when we know exactly what the deal is.

          • Do I have this right? The Warriors, with Igouda’s contract have 8 guaranteed contracts at about $56m, 2-3m below the cap. However they can spend up to $70m, the luxury threshold, without paying tax? But the only way they can spend that extra $12m is by acquiring the TPEs?

            And if the TPEs fall through, the only way to improve the roster is through trades of existing players?

            I’m plumping for the FO spending some more bucks, and I thought they were committed in doing so.

          • I wouldn’t say “sitting on their hands” because they are most likely trying desperately to sell the Nuggets on participating in the sign and trade. Perhaps they are working the phones to try to pull in a 4th team that can give the Nuggets something worth their while.

            But in terms of new transactions, you are right to not expect anything until after the 10th. What they have to offer other free agents depends on the final shape of the Iguodala deal.

          • RGG – your math seems about right to me, and you’ve got the general idea. If they go back below the cap to sign Iguodala, then they have to stick below 58 million or so (whatever the cap turns out to be this year) when it comes to signing new players. They could exceed the cap by extending their own guys (so-called Bird rights) or by signing their own draft picks), and I think they have something called a “room exception” that would allow them to sign a player for less than 2.7 million.

            In that case, the team would probably stay around 60 million this year. They would have another chance to bump up to 70million or even go into the tax after next season. Bogut’s contract expiring would give them 15 million to play with, so they could sign 15 mil worth of new guys, then spend on top of that to keep or extend their own players.

      • we’re pretty much on the same page. the key was the UT trade of course, giving them the means to secure iguodala by directly signing him and staying under the cap, if that’s the only option. but the lacobites prefer using potential assets, and the trade exceptions have expiration dates. what gives the scuttlebutt re. Den’s involvement if they work an alternate deal via a sign and trade, are the other serious holes in their roster that iguodala alone can’t address.

  178. I’m curious why Denver picked up Hickson, unless they’re planning to move or let go of one of their bigs—Mozgov?

    • Yeah, that doesn’t make sense to me either. They just got Darrell Arthur too. Seems like they need to turn a big guy into a wing to replace Iggy.

      • there would have to be incentives for Den to go along with an iguodala sign and trade, opening up a healthy chunk of budget space for the lacobites. shedding a contract on a superfluous player could be their incentive. they’re stuck with an unfavorable contract in the form of the aging a.miller, a karl favorite, and the woeyrs could use a vet reserve point guard for about 15 min. per game to reduce curry’s overload. an expensive reserve, but a means to open that budget up to the lux tax threshold and gain use of the mid level exception. if Den has surplus bigs, the deal could go that way as well.

        • Andre Miller – would be a nice chip – but with his cursed playoff record, I’d be wary – LOL!

          Wish the W’s can get their hands on Darrell Arthur and Mozgov. They’ve impressed me the couple of times I’ve watched them.

  179. Thanks again, CK and moto.

    Wednesday should be interesting. It looks like we caught a break this season with two teams undergoing massive restructuring, Utah and Denver—and maybe Denver will have more cause to deal with us?

    I still can’t figure out Utah’s angle in the trade, unless they couldn’t justify going after the big free agents this year and decided to clean house entirely. So far, they have guaranteed salaries next season totaling $49m—and that includes Biedrins and Jefferson. For 2014-15 they have guaranteed contracts totaling. . . . . under $2million! (plus options on other players).

    • Utah’s angle does not involve winning this year. Play the youngun’s for a year, figure out which ones are good, draft another 2 1st rounders next year at the same time they have cap space. That should set them up nicely long term unless they screw up the draft and/or FA next offseason.

    • UT will be required under the c.b.a. to use a minimum of .90 of the cap on player salaries. they have a pretty unique market, with their competition mainly consisting of college football and hoops teams. they’ll be marketing the notion, ‘brighter days ahead’, with sloan re-joining the front office, and the hype about the the coming draft and free agent classes. Bos is following a similar course, and ainge has those ‘great’ new england fans to placate.

  180. This writer agrees with me that the Iggy move can only be justified by small ball:

    http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/7/7/4499268/andre-iguodala-signs-golden-state-warriors

    • Getcha popcorn ready FB! With the money for the bench being acquired, this W’s small ball unit will be the most exciting in basketball…

      Skilled three point shooters (Curry and Klay), elite defense stoppers (NBA’s #2 wing stopper in Iguodala and the shot-blocking Bogut – and Klay’s pretty good too), Point Forward ability in Iguodala, and an absolutely unguardable stretch 4 in Harrison Barnes? David Lee’s in there somewhere – as a small ball center.

  181. This Real GM article lays out the motivation for Denver to come around on the sign and trade:
    http://basketball.realgm.com/blog/228697/Two-Cap-Paths-For-Warriors-To-Acquire-Iguodala

    “If Denver wants to put the best possible team on the floor and state a stronger claim on one of the last playoff spots in the Western Conference, they should use the sign and trade to create a useable TPE.”

    and

    “…the TPE generated by moving Iguodala to the Warriors would allow them to sign Mozgov, use both their MLE and BLE, and then add another player of up to $11 million. They could even take all of those steps without going over the apron and saving their ownership some money.”

    And it seems things could play out exactly that way – Yahoo’s uber-connected Woj says it looks like things may be pointing toward Denver accepting the sign and trade receiving Randy Foye from Utah as compensation, which hopefully means no additional cost to the Warriors.

    “Utah would sign-and-trade Foye to Denver on a three-year, $9 million deal, with a team option on the third season, sources said.”

    • Hard to believe the Warriors didn’t have this in mind all along, or at any rate that’s what I want to believe.

      If Denver agrees to a sign and trade for Igoudala:

      “Since the team would be over the cap, they would not need to renounce the exceptions or give up Jarrett Jack’s Bird rights. Golden State would also retain whatever trade exception(s) are left over after acquiring Iguodala. By acquiring Andre Iguodala in this way, the Warriors would actually turn the apron (a line $4 million over the luxury tax) into a hard cap for the coming season. Staying under the apron would also give them a bigger Mid-Level Exception and also provide use of the BAE and stall another season on the dreaded ‘repeater tax’ that comes into play in the new CBA.”

      I suppose that means, if they could have gotten Jack to hold out another week and they get the sign and trade with Denver, they could have resigned him. That would have been too iffy for Jack however, and I suspect that option never was in the cards.

      But if I read that right, if the luxury tax threshold is $70m, they can spend up to $74m next season without incurring the tax. Which means after they fill the roster will obligatory players, they’ll have quite a bit of money to spend, again around $12m or more, depending on how they handle the smaller contracts.

      The Igoudala trade doesn’t make much sense, or doesn’t make much sense next season, unless they are planning to spend more on other substantial players.

      • They still go into the tax at 70 million and pay dollar for dollar above that line. The “tax apron” figure of 74 million has a number of implications, but I think the relevant one here is that teams above the tax apron can’t use the MLE and I believe they are prohibited from receiving a player in a sign and trade. The Warriors plan to do both of those things and thus must remain below 74 million, even if they were willing to spend more (doubtful). That’s what they mean by the tax apron becoming a hard cap for the Warriors this year.

      • I suspect the other thing that’s obvious here, and it’s been reported, is that they’re holding out for a center—any center—and will make other decisions after they get him, among whoever is left, and time is running out on many. They may also overpay that center. 4/5’s like Speights or Hicks, my choice, aren’t in the cards.

  182. It would have been wiser, in the sense the Warriors would have obtained more value, if the Warriors waited till the end of next season to dump the salaries of Biedrins and Jefferson. And we would not have lost Rush, two future first round picks, two second round picks, and possibly not Jack.

    Regardless of how things turn out this year, the Warriors will still have to do some creative work to get back those four lost draft choices.

    The real question is how much flexibility will the Warriors have to obtain some decent players this year? If one or two of the TPE”s disappear, the obvious answer is not much. If all we have left is a mid-level exemption, and less than $3 million to pay for a free agent, the deal for Iggy does not not that good. Of course, the Warriors are in a better position to trade, but we have seen no indication that is on the immediate horizon.

    When will the day come that the Warriors are just faced with good choices and not part good, part bad? Doesn’t appear to be before 2017.

    It seems that the time to gaga over the trade is not now, and when we know fi the Warriors made the right move will not be known for sometime.

    • I suspect the window of opportunity with Utah was really narrow, that it would be hard to unload those contracts elsewhere or later.

      The team at least is returning to fiscal sanity, and while their cap will be tight the next few seasons, they’ll have options they didn’t have before.

      The other question is whether they want to commit to four years with Jack/and or Landry, which might have been required.

      But with the sign and trade apparently going through, they’ll have bucks to spend now, and a couple of midrange players could make the team deep, solid, and competitive the coming season.

  183. Apparently the deal is going through, and this is where it leaves us according to MT:

    “The Warriors are at about $59 million, including non-guaranteed contracts and Iguodala’s first year is just shy of $12 million. That would leave Golden State about $16 million of room to add players, including the MLE to sign a free-agent. Even more if they cut the non-guaranteed contracts of Scott Machado, Dwayne Jones and Kevin Murphy.”

    http://www.ibabuzz.com/warriors/2013/07/08/warriors-gain-much-needed-flexibility-with-three-way-trade/

  184. The Warriors are looking more and more like the Miami Heat. A very talented small ball team with some severe flaws (Very few solid bench players) that will need to be overcome in order to win consistently. The Heat have spent gobs of money on their starting lineup and very little on reserves. They have been able to attract veteran free agents for lower than market value contracts because of the favorable odds of winning a championship. Maybe that’s the direction the Warriors are headed in…

    With the loss of Landry and Jack, the Warriors bench is depleted. However, free agents certainly see Golden State as a favorable landing spot — Iggy may be the first of several vets who sign with the Warriors this off season for lower than usual contracts.

    • if a team drafts accurately and identifies the low cost free agents who can contribute usefully (d.green on SA, k.azubuike for nelson), a good bench doesn’t have to be expensive, at all. green will probably be a good reserve, ezeli maybe if his body holds up and his late start learning the game can be overcome. they gained nothing long term from the draft picks jenkins and tyler.

      Mia got their best player for below market rate (as did GS with curry, with a much smaller discrepancy), and they also possess considerably deeper pockets than the lacobites. the top three eastern conference teams are probably as tough as those in the west, but the western teams have tougher courses to run to reach their conference finals.

      lacob and his brain trust just can’t be expected to have all their decisions to function ideally, and they’re probably stuck in the second tier for the near future. they’ll be content to market and hype like they’re on the cusp of getting to the finals, and if that keeps the revenues coming, they won’t complain.

      • A year ago – Carl Landry and Brandan Rush were passed over by most teams in the league as FAs. Jarrett Jack was picked off by the W’s Front Office after they dumped Dorrell Wright.

        The W’s aren’t overpaying their bench players like other teams. Hopefully this results in being able to keep the core players together longer…

        FA season isn’t over. And the TPE or whatever it is – will allow the W’s to fill out their bench…

  185. in case anyone thought it was odd that j.tyler of the s.cruz woeyrs didn’t get on the summer league roster, he’s on the NY team. this confirms my suspicions, that he and/or his agent wanted to find an opportunity with a different organization.

  186. So, the Warriors now have money to improve the roster by trading the TPE, singing another player using the mid-level exemption, and signing their first round draft choice. This plus, the Warriors have the opportunity to trade their own players to improve the roster. Let’s see if they execute their opportunities wisely.

  187. I dedicate this link to Frank – whose endless admiration of Ekpe Udoh’s defense – is admirable in and of itself! Lol! (It’s a W’s should trade for Ekpe back brief)!

    http://warriorsworks.blogspot.com/2013/07/trade-target-ekpe-udoh.html

  188. A few days ago, at height of Dwight Howard madness, I tweeted that the Warriors were 100 times more likely to wind up with Marreese Speights than Howard.

    That’s how I make my living.

    • I also tweeted that whichever stiff they signed, he would start 40+ games at center for them next season…

      • c’mon now, you think we didn’t notice that ezeli started 41 games last season ? the preacher will probably resort to another ploy, when bogut’s 70 yr. old joints are acting up — he’ll play him 8-10 minutes at the start of each half. that’s how they began all those games with an early deficit last season, and it’s questionable if they ever did figure out how to play with bogut and lee on the court at the same time.

  189. MWP just amnestied. Dare we?

    Probably not Christian enough.

    • I hear SJax is available too. For the perfect 1-2 “punch.”

      • Den could stipulate that a.randolph gets unloaded on the lacobites as part of the sign and trade deal. he’d be a good test of scalabrine’s abilities.

        • Randolph seems like a good test of any coach’s ability. Huge talent but no feel for team play. At this point, 4 good coaches (Nelson, D’Antoni, Adelman and Karl) have tried and failed to get what they needed from him.

          I’d like to see him do well. I wouldn’t even mind the Ws taking him, just because he’s entertaining to watch. But based on his track record, I don’t think he’d add much to the team.

          • randolph’s limitations appear to be above the neck, which is why he’s sharing the mini-thread with metta world p. and s.jackson.

  190. How long is Speights contract? Yearly salary? does anyone have his per game stats-ORs, steals, blocked shots, and turnovers? Good defender at PF. Better than Landry. Has some quickness. can run the floor and provide weak side help.

  191. !!!!

    We are getting Speights. Comments?

    • Marc Stein:

      “One source close to the process told ESPN.com that the move for Speights does not impact the Warriors’ pursuit of free-agent center Jermaine O’Neal, whose former agent is current Warriors general manager Bob Myers.”

      • From SI (FA big men article):

        “Speights has put up some impressive numbers at each of his three NBA stops, but unfortunately he doesn’t supply much beyond those box-score offerings. He’s a natural scorer but struggles to work within an offense; it rarely takes Speights long to hoist up a shot after the ball swings his way, making him a better fit for some roles than others. He’s also a quality rebounder but a lacking defender, though his stint in Memphis showed that the right system can help disguise his shortcomings.

        The 25-year-old is a quality player, provided he isn’t expected to offer more than the sum of his stats. His mid-range proficiency should make him a great fit for teams in need of spacing help.”

      • Houston is interested in O’Neal, along with Dallas. What does that mean? Other than his price is going up.

    • Don’t know Speights, but his numbers make him kinda-sorta sound like a bigger, better-rebounding Carl Landry. I hope that’s the case.

      If Speights is a “black hole,” Landry was/is even more so. Landry’s career assists .8/game, Speights averages .6/game in fewer minutes (16.4 vs 24.5 for Landry).

      • I watched these two games – not a black hole – but he wasn’t shy to take his shot. He’ll be a nice scorer for sure.

        http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=320403029

        http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=320307009

      • there were probably sound hoops reasons why a big young player who can shoot and rebound like speights averaged under 20 min. per game for three different teams for four out of five seasons. (22 min. per game one year). bigger than landry, blocks more shots, a little better on the boards, but a very different player on offense who heavily favors the mid range jump shot. my impression from a small sample size — he was too caught up in the ‘scorers make the good money’ trope, and exhibited almost no aptitude or motivation for team play on offense. that tends to limit playing time. he’s also young enough that he could evolve on a team with four vets focused on team play like curry, lee, iguodala, bogut.

        we need to see how much he’s getting. at worst he’ll probably contribute more than jefferson did.

        • Any chance he didn’t get a chance to develop with Memphis, playing behind their other bigs, thus maybe feeling he had to prove himself? It’s my hope that he’ll evolve with this team.

  192. Of possible interest: Iggy, Speights and Jermaine O’Neal are all former clients of Bob Myers.

    • And Jack, Landry, Rush, and Lee have the same agent… Fortunately, Mark Jackson is on board with a familiar agent.

    • felt – time yet for a new thread?

    • hmmm… that is a bit fishy. Is there a list anywhere of all his ex-clients, if only to have a potential shopping list in hand? Also, do you know if these guys were all specifically his clients or just clients of Wasserman Media Group?

      Because it looks to me like WMG represents at least 20% of the entire league, so that wouldn’t be quite so fishy.

  193. I haven’t followed Stephen Curry’s little brother… Seth, who will be playing with our SL. He’s worth a flier for sure. Curry’s sure can shoot!

    http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/06/25/2988715/advice-to-nba-ignore-seth-curry.html

    http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Seth-Curry-5499/

    • Haven’t followed Seth’s career, but his stats and college history read like Jimmer Fredette.

    • warriorsablaze

      where do you read that he’s playing with our SL? He’s not on the roster that was recently released.

      http://www.nba.com/warriors/news/warriors-announce-2013-summer-league-roster-tv-schedule-2

    • There are similarities, both in skills and smarts. Steph, however, had a chance to develop with a good supporting cast at Davidson and was able to contribute in many ways, including point. Seth’s first year was at little Liberty, where he was mobbed every time he got the ball. So he transferred to Duke and sat out a year. But he had to play behind the one-and-done phenoms, Irving and Rivers, and played strictly 2 in coach K’s scheme, which favors slashing PG’s. Nor did he get to take as many shots as Steph. Also his senior year he had to play all year with a stress fracture in his leg, which limited his practice. Maybe there’s potential, with time, as backup PG.

    • Lots of interest for Monta. So far his name has been linked to 3-4 other teams besides Sacto.

      It’s interesting that an owner and coach from the Warriors’ Lacob era want Monta to run the team. I guess according to Lacob that would mean they want a lousy team culture.

      Or maybe those people who know Monta very well thought his “culture” was just fine. In fact, they want some.

      • warriorsablaze

        Considering Sac’s currently culture is completely in the toilet, Monta is certainly not gonna bring them down.

        Poor Monta though… that’s a terrible roster for him to land on, and, again, is likely gonna continue to put him in the position that emphasizes the bad parts of his game (chucking, low BB IQ). I actually don’t disagree with you and Felt that Monta can be very good… but it’s gonna take the right team and the right mindset from him…. not sure if Sac is the place. Maybe Malone gets it done.

  194. I assume we’re in a bidding war with Dallas over O’Neal and the question is how much of the available money goes to him? I do hope they save enough to pick up another guard.

  195. Pingback: The Marreese Speights Era - Feltbot's Warriors Blog