The Marreese Speights Era

Marreese Speights just became a free agent. He is 1000 times more likely to be the #Warriors starting center next season than Dwight Howard.

@feltbot on Twitter, June 29, 2013.

It’s not always pleasant having the gift of clairvoyance. I’ve been frequently accused in the last few years of being depressing on the subject of Warriors basketball. I dunno, I just keep calling them like I see them. And getting it right.

Like when I noticed that Mark Jackson was beginning to get it right, and transitioning the team towards Nellieball, at a moment when the team still had a losing record, and the fans and media were baying for Jackson’s head. An example of my negativity?

The Marreese Speights Era: Most Warriors fans are probably disappointed that the Warriors are entering the Speights Era instead of the Dwight Howard Era. I am, by contrast, absolutely delighted that Lacob never had a real chance to sign Howard (more on this below). And despite his many fleas, which I’ll get to, Speights is a pleasing signing for me. For one thing, he represents a continuation of the recent growth in Joe Lacob’s abilities as GM of the Warriors. A conceptual breakthrough on Lacob’s part.

Do you remember the first backup bigs that Lacob signed to the Warriors? Bye Bye Anthony Tolliver, hello Lou Amundson (the “best rebounder/min in the NBA.”). The Kwame Brown Era (wait, he was a starter). Dominic McGuire. All one-way players, that couldn’t hit the side of a barn on offense. Or do anything else, like catch, dribble or pass. Or most importantly, shoot free throws.

These signing were disastrous for the Warriors offense. And in particular they were disastrous for Stephen Curry, who NEEDS a big man who can score in order to flourish.

But look at the backups Lacob has signed in the last two seasons. First Carl Landry, and now Speights. Bigs who can shoot a jump shot. Pick and pop. Hallelujah.

Speights is an even better mid-range jump shooter than Landry was last season. Better shot, and with his length, better able to get it off over his defender.  Check it out:

He was also 81% from the line last year, and 76% for his career.

Speights clearly can set a pick, catch and shoot. I’m not sure how good he is at pick and roll, but he can put the ball on the floor and dunk athletically as well. He can spread the floor and make defenses pay for double-teaming Stephen Curry.

This is absolutely essential in a Warriors big man, as was demonstrated amply in the playoffs last season. In case you’ve forgotten that, here’s a little commentary from the Spurs series to help you remember:

“Bogut is looking to pass everything inside.” — Jeff van Gundy.

“Bogut is playing hot potato with the ball.” — Jim Barnett.

“The Warriors are playing 3 on 5.” — Mitch Richmond.

“It’s hard to play playoff basketball when all 5 guys aren’t active, aggressive offensive threats.” — Jeff van Gundy, on the Warriors.

“When you put a lot of shooting on the floor around a great pick and roll player, the game opens up.” — Jeff van Gundy, on the Spurs.

“That’s the difference between the two teams, one team’s center — Duncan or Splitter — can make shots off the pick and roll, the other team’s center can’t.” — Jeff van Gundy.

“Bogut is not moving well at all.” — Mike Breen.

“You just wonder if he’s ever going to be healthy.” — Jeff van Gundy.

Oops. Those last two comments belong to a future post. But they represent another reason why Marreese Speights will prove indispensable to the Warriors this season.

Warriors fans seem to think that Speights will back up David Lee at power forward. That’s incorrect. If Mark Jackson gets it right, Harrison Barnes and Draymond Green will back up Lee. Even though the Warriors are currently pursuing another backup center, rumored to be Jermaine O’Neal, Speights is here to play center. Which at 6-10″, 255, he can do far better than Carl Landry could.

The Fleas: There is a reason why Speights is on his fourth team in six years. He’s not the brightest bulb in the store. He will be extremely slow to learn his responsibilities on both sides of the ball, if he ever learns them. If he does learn them, he will often be too lazy to execute them. He has been curiously unmotivated and out of shape at various times in his career, and is an indifferent defender.

Doug Collins gave up on him.

It seemed that Collins didn’t trust Speights with regular minutes because he thought Speights worried too much about shooting jumpers and not enough about defense and rebounding.

It’s possible that Byron Scott gave up on him as well, judging by these quotes:

“Probably playing a little bit harder at times,” Scott said when asked what Speights needs to improve.

And the pick and roll game.

“I think at times he’ll give you that illusion that he can get out and show on pick and rolls and next time he doesn’t,” Scott said. “Just being a little more consistent more than anything.”

Clearly, Mark Jackson will have to earn every penny of his reputation as a great motivator all over again with Mr. Speights.

Aw, the hell with defense. Now that Speights is once again teamed up with old running buddy Andre Iguodala, we’ll have a little something like this to look forward to:

Andre Iguodala: Who?

Just kidding. I and my compatriots on this blog have given a fairly exhaustive analysis of the Iggy signing in the comments to the last thread.

Dwight Howard: It is astonishing to me that no one in Warriors land, not management, not fans, nor the media, understood that Dwight Howard would have been a terrible fit on the Warriors. Disastrous.

By all accounts, Howard clashed repeatedly with Mike D’Antoni and Steve Nash over running the pick and roll last season. Despite their arguments that he could be great in the system, he simply didn’t want to do it, and refused to learn how to set proper picks for Nash. Dwight Howard wants to set up in the low post, and be fed the ball, so he can be the center of all attention.

Is that the future role you want for Stephen Curry? To walk the ball up, and feed the low post? Then sit on the perimeter hoping for the ball to come back out?

Stephen Curry is a pick and roll point guard. One of the best that the divinity has ever seen fit to put on this earth. I pray to whoever’s up there that Joe Lacob receives enlightenment on this score in the near future. He seems to have received it regarding backup big men. But the temptation of the franchise big man, however ill-suited to play with one of the best guards in NBA history, continues to overpower his reasoning.

Dwight Howard went to Houston because Kevin McHale, one of the best ever in the low post, is the coach. And because Hakeem Olajuwon, perhaps the best ever, lives next door. And because Daryl Morey promised him that the Rockets would run his system. And immediately set to work shipping his pick and roll point guard, Jeremy Lin, out of town. (I wonder how James Harden, himself one of the best pick and roll guards in the league, is going to like playing with Dwight Howard, once he fully comprehends the implications.)

The Warriors never had a chance to sign Howard, despite all the media brouhaha. And Warriors fans should be thankful.

Stephen Curry lives.

494 Responses to The Marreese Speights Era

  1. Offensively, the Warriors decline big time having Speights rather than Landry. Landry averaged a net 1.6 extra possessions per game, Speight half that amount at.8. Landry is more efficient as a 52% shooter, compared to Speights 46% shooting, and such is compounded more by Speights shooting more than Landry did.

    Defensively, it’s a difficult read. Landry’s opponents shot 49% from the field last season. 82 games.

    I went back three years for Speights when he played for Cleveland, Memphis, and Philly. Last year, playing for Cleveland, PF’s shot 35% against him. At Memphis, PF shot 49% against him, and at Philly PF shot 54% against him. So did Speights improve his game playing Cleveland or is the 35% last year just an aberration?

    So, overall, Landry’s superior offense at PF seems to indicate that overall he’s a better player than Speights given that in two out of last three years, Speights defensively was not as good as Landry.

    For the last two years, Speights has been a disaster on defense playing center, as opposing centers shot 64% and 57% against him. But playing for Philly, they shot only 46%.

    • Stats, stats, stats. Landry shot a better percentage because of his low post work. But his affinity for the paint also hurt the Warriors spacing, which is why he frequently sat on the bench in fourth quarters.

      At 6-10″, Speights is a better center than the 6-8″ Landry. Better able to play alongside a stretch-four. He’s a far better outside shooter, with better range. A better pick and pop, pick and roll player. A better floor spreader.

      All of which will make the Warriors offense far more efficient with him than with Landry.

    • With our perimeter shooters, he should have more room to work with than at the other clubs, no?

      • That’s a good point too.

      • I love opening up the middle for Curry’s magical drives to the hoop. Speights natural tendency to play in the 15 to 20 foot range will certainly pull any shot-blocker out of the lane, opening things up for Steph! Love it.

    • Why are you looking at per game stats? They play way different minutes, it’s not comparable at all. Look at percentages by possession.

      For each of the last 3 years Speights has had a higher offensive rebound rate and a higher defensive rebound rate. It’s pretty clear that Speights is a better rebounder in every way and his turnover percentages are lower too. He’s more likely to bring back extra possessions than Landry. Just don’t try to feed him in the post.

  2. Great, FB. At the very least now the team has more flexibility. There’s another analysis of Speights here:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/evaluating-golden-state-warriors-signing-marreese-speights-151800283.html

    And his deal will determine remaining options:

    “. . . he could join the team through a number of ways. The Warriors could sign him outright with part or all of the mid-level exception or he could be part of a sign-and-trade deal with the Cavaliers. . . . If the Warriors can work out a sign-and-trade with the Cavaliers, who have already agreed to a four-year, $25 million deal with former Warriors guard Jarrett Jack, this swap could benefit both teams and save the Warriors’ mid-level exception. Retaining the entire mid-level exception could help the Warriors acquire one more solid veteran, likely a much-needed point guard or center, for the bench.”

    One reason the Warriors don’t have Landry now is that they didn’t (couldn’t?) give him a longer contract at an affordable price that would have kept him around. But I like the gamble on Speights, if for no other reason because of his greater size and strength. Landry fought valiantly against much larger players, which made life hard on both ends of the court. Maybe a less adept effort from a larger player will produce about the same, with a greater upside on offense.

    Howard was never in the cards, though I suppose the FO deserves credit for getting his attention, no easy task. AW reported Friday morning it was Houston or the Lakers.

    If we want to be critical, we could question why the team didn’t bypass Howard altogether and make the same and better moves. Timing is everything in free agency. But going after big men, especially a “star,” is in Lacob’s DNA and had to happen. Curiously, it’s the failed attempts at big men, especially Bogut because of his injuries and time on the bench, that have forced the club to play available talent and find, I hope, its true identity. They had to play small—and it worked.

    Cautiously, I’m feeling better about this organization and its future.

  3. warriorsablaze

    All on board with this one, Felt. I had virtually no interest in Howard…both in style and attitude. I think he is still among the best big men, but not a fit for this system.

    Speights isn’t exciting, but we’re talking about a backup that is gonna play 10-15 minutes a game (depending on Bogut’s health, of course). The expectations for this type of player need to be reasonable… he’s a solid bench role player, that’s it.

  4. (Answering the question on the last post). Seth Curry is still recovering from his stress fracture and hasn’t been cleared for summer league.

    • Thanks – I didn’t know where I’d read Seth was playing for the W’s SL or not… Perhaps wishful thinking on my or Stephen’s part!

  5. Right now, I suspect, the Warriors best back-up PF would be D. Green if he can play offensively like he did in the playoffs. As he shot 52% from the field. For the season, playing PF opponents shot 46% which is better than opponents shot against Speights the last two years. D. Green is the Warriors wild card this upcoming season.

    Last year the Warriors had four consistent and dependable shooters- Curry, Lee, Jack ,and Landry, and five, if you add Rush. Right now they have two, Curry and Lee.

  6. hollinger probably off-loaded speights to Cle because he didn’t see enough positive coming from the player’s strengths, relative to his cost. if speights gets around the same from GS as that last Mem contract, it’s another over-pay due to the usual big man premium.

    speights will be a good test of whether coaching and teammates can reform a player. not referring to his character, but his gunning from mid range. shooting below .50 from there isn’t a positive, and likely a factor in his getting shipped to Cle. under b.scott, speights’ rate of attempts was equal to curry’s for GS, and that was the highest on the team, obviously justified. and speights’ mid range gunning doesn’t open up opportunities for his ‘mates or himself in the paint, he isn’t that kind of player either.

    defensively, his size and bulk should make him a better match up against some 4’s than green. as for 5’s, we need to see what they find to back up bogut. overall, we should expect at least a slight downgrade from landry, and hope it isn’t more than slight.

    • Speights is a five.

      • if speights’ position is defined by his role on offense, and not d, and you call him a five, fine. just don’t expect him to score much around the rim (based on his past performance ; his new team might re-construct him a bit), and he won’t be the playmaker that bogut and lee are at center. of course, bogut’s scoring and free throws have declined so much he brings other limitations to the position.

        for old school types like myself, the bigs who handle the ball and pass well are suited to play center on offense — the pivot, the omphalos of the offense. duncan would be called a center, rather than a four.

        • I define it more by who he can guard. Unintelligent and mediocre defenders of his size are best hidden at the five. That’s why teams play Brandan Wright there.

          Also, at the five his excellent midrange shooting becomes a true weapon, rather than a placeholder. One of the reasons Lee is so much more valuable at five.

  7. Toney Douglas?

    • “Douglas started the year as starting point guard for Mike D’Antoni’s Knicks and ended it as an end of the rotation player for Mike Woodson. Under D’Antoni’s point guard friendly system, Toney struggled…a lot. He would miss open cuts, would pick up his dribble early in the clock, did a terrible job at running the pick and roll, would take shots that he should not have been taking, and would get burned on defense by insisting on running into every screen (which eventually caused him to injure both shoulders.” If someone really wanted to, he/she could try and argue that D’Antoni’s offense requires smart point guards (Nash, for example). I would then point out that even Chris Duhon was able to put up good statistics under D’Antoni — well…there goes the “intelligent point guard” argument.”

      http://24secondclock.wordpress.com/2012/06/16/player-evaluation-toney-douglas/

  8. Warriors sign Toney Douglas. I love this signing: Douglas is a bit like Nate Robinson, an aggressive shoot-first point guard, instant offense off the bench, great three point shooter. FAST. Runs the floor. A character in the locker room.

    He also happens to be a GREAT defender. Look at his steals stat: 1.4 in 17 min/gm. That’s out of this world.

    Excellent move. I’m feeling a bit more optimistic about the roster.

    • @7 Ok, he’s not all that bright. Not at all adept at running offense. There’s a reason why he failed as a starting point guard.

      He’s a maddeningly frustrating sixth man type, a guy who can get his own shot, and take over a game when hot. Think Nate Robinson with better defense.

      Which happens to be exactly what the Warriors need now that Jack is gone.

    • But they still don’t have a competent PG who can run the team if you-know-what happens.

      • warriorsablaze

        Jack isn’t exactly a competent PG when it comes to running a team either… unless you consider dribbling away the shot clock until forcing a contested jumper running the team. Jack is better than Douglass, of course, but Iggy already takes over much of Jack’s secondary ball-handler role, so Douglass won’t be asked to do as much.

        It doesn’t matter who we get, if Steph goes down for any significant amount of time, this team is pretty much toast anyway.

        • Love it that W’s finally have a great on-the-ball PG defender in Douglas (that I was hoping to find from Bazemore)…

          Douglas (as did Avery) really disrupts Curry’s game when he can’t even bring the ball up to halfcourt without a major struggle! Good to have one on our team for once!

  9. First of all. I would never sign a back-up Pf who shoots only 46 percent and whose defense is, at best, questionable. With Landry coming off the bench the Warriors basically played even with their opponents. Don’t see that happening with Speights. So why sign him to a potentially championship team when it needs 10 players who can make a positive contribution to the Warriors outscoring their opponents? As of right mow, our bench falls woefully short of that. But we have the assets necessary to correct that.

    Thompson needs to demonstrate he can be a consistent shooter. He missed a ton of wide open shots last year.

  10. This is a potential fourth quarter lineup that I would pay money to watch:

    Curry, Douglas, Thompson, Iggy, Lee.

    • Only if they’re all wearing rocket shoes. It’s a team born to run.

      It’s going to be interesting to see if we can tell a difference in the coaching without Malone. Let’s hope slow-ball was more Malone’s thing, and not Jackson’s.

  11. I believe Speights was a minus 6 with a good Memphis team two years ago. Not good knowing the guy is a negative and still deciding to sign him.

  12. According to Mark Stein, the Warriors have landed Jermaine O’Neal.

    Again, a true five who can put the ball in the basket. Excellent signing for many of the same reasons as Speights. He can also play a little defense and BLOCK SHOTS (cf. The Kwame Brown Era).

    Chief downside: He’ll only be available half the year, if that. (But if it’s the half that Ezeli is out, that will be quite a help.)

  13. Toney Douglas highlights:

  14. TD 4th Q takeover:

  15. TD does a Danny Green:

  16. Jermaine O’Neal HAS SKILLZ:

    Stephen Curry is going to be ecstatic this year. For the first time in his career, he has genuine big man finishers to target.

  17. One year deal for O’Neal (Stein).

  18. So here’s the roster (from MT):

    Projected Starters

    PG – Stephen Curry

    SG – Klay Thompson

    G/F – Andre Iguodala

    PF – David Lee

    C – Andrew Bogut

    Projected Reserves

    F – Harrison Barnes

    F – Draymond Green

    C – Festus Ezeli (injured)

    PF/C – Marreese Speights

    C – Jermaine O’Neal

    G – Toney Douglas

    G – Kent Bazemore

    G – Nemanja Nedovic (possibility)

    http://www.ibabuzz.com/warriors/2013/07/09/warriors-add-jermaine-oneal-toney-douglas/#more-4878

    With two slots open.

    Intriguing who is now in the reserves.

    Apparently one year contracts for both O’Neal and Douglas.

    Depth and lots of options. I’m kind of getting excited here.

    • You really think Barnes is going to the bench after starting every single game as a rookie? Think again. Curry, Thompson, Iggy, Barnes, Bogut.

    • If Lee is healthy, Barnes is going to the bench, 100% guaranteed. And rightly so.

      Neither he nor his agent will want him starting at PF. He’ll wear down, and get eaten up over the course of the season. Not part of his brand.

      And there’s no contest between he and Thompson at SF, sorry.

      Barnes is best as a small-ball PF, and on this roster, best off the bench. Or traded.

  19. ranadive is truly changing the culture over in Sac and giving malone at least a slim chance to get into the western parity conversation. they picked up Mbah a Moute for two second round draft picks.

    • I understand that Ranadive is trying to change a completely toxic culture, but I’m not a fan of MBam. Non-shooting wings hurt as much as they help.

      • o.t.o.h., if ellis decides to sign with Sac as rumoured — he likes malone — a defense-first wing on the court with him won’t hurt.

      • Quite the contrary, MBam hurt Monta’s efficiency terribly in Milwaukee. What a player who attracts triple teams needs most of all is a spread floor.

        • willing to wait to see how malone does. he could be a little better than skiles and vogel.

  20. Douglas is better giving his team 1/2 extra possessions per game, while Jack cost his team 1 overall possession per game

    Shooting wise, Douglas and Jack a virtually wash. Jack ‘s advantage is that he had 5.6 assists per game to Douglas’ 2.6 per game.

    Defensively, the are about the same and both are poor defenders.

    Douglas might have some intangibles not reading apparent as Sac outscored their opponents with him on the court over any other player on the team. So, overall we did ok, but did not improve our defense in the backcourt.

    • Not sure where you’re getting this, but guessing its from misapplied stats. Douglas is a GREAT defender. A disruptive force.

    • did you miss the douglas vs. curry match ups Frank ? if he can shut down curry, he’ll probably hold his own against many others, perhaps even the legendary ellis, should the mississippi vet decide to sign with a western conference team (Sac and Dal supposedly under consideration).

      • Agreed – Douglas is a relentless, ball-hawking, defender – similar to how Avery/Bledsoe who can wreck havoc on a PG bringing the ball upcourt. That’s Curry’s cryptonite in my opinion.

  21. After closely reviewing O’Neal’s stats it looks like he is a great pick-up as he can play both C and PF. At PF last year he shot 57% from the field, and opponents shot 37%.

    Playing center, he shot 48% from the field, and opponents 45%.

    He’s better defensively then Ezeil. Opponent center shot 47 against and Ezeli has no offense. For those that say that O’Neal is holding down the court for Ezeli are greatly mistaken as he’s head and shoulders better than Ezeli. He’s a better foul shooter than Ezeil as he hit 83% of his foul shots.

    When compared to Bogut he stacks up well as he shot 48% from the field to Bogut’s 45%, and made foul shots rather then missed them as Bogut shot 50 from the foul line.

    What I really like about O’Neal is that he gives the Warriors a net 2.5 extra possessions (OR’s plus steals and blocked shots, minus turnovers, per game). Bogut is slightly higher but he played more minutes, and he did not place his OR’s back into the hoop, I suspect, as much as O’Neal did. So extra possessions are probably a wash.

    On defense at center opponents shot 45% compared to 44% against Bogut, a marginally difference. I said that the Warriors needed to get a better center than Bogut, and they just may have.

    For the first time the Warriors have two centers who should allow the Warriors to outscore their opponents regardless of who is on the court.

    So the Warriors have improved their interior defense big time by adding
    O’Neal, and their perimeter defense by adding Iggy. They still have some way to go.

    The only players I can see having a negative effect on the court next year is Bazemore, Ezeil, and the rookie point guard, Speights I hope breaks even.

    I think D. Green will be a positive contributor.

    The Warriors still need a scoring back-up shooting SG. But, I agree with posters that the Warriors are now better than last year.

    • o’neal’s stats won’t help if he isn’t healthy. he could break down at any moment he’s on he court, including practices. of course, ezeli and bogut haven’t established their durability either.

      • Thankfully – at least the W’s have numbers of playable big men…

        Injured – Bogut, Lee, Ezeli
        Not yet injured – O’Neal, Speights, Green, stretch 4 Barnes

  22. I hope the GM will continue signing players and consider trading Bogut, for players whose contracts run out this year, leaving us room next year to sign free agents next year. Although, I can see retaining him so we have two decent centers this year.

    They should definitely trade Barnes to get a decent shooting guard, and Ezeli.

    • if they sign Nedovic, which means buying out his contract from his euro team, and bazemore avoids getting cut, there are only two roster spots left. they’ll probably assess Nedovic, and assess the health and mobility of bogut, lee, o’neal, before making more additions. if they like a cheap free agent there’s always room for one of those.

  23. Felty: You’re too glued to who should be on the court.

    I hope you’ll keep your silence on Lee playing center this year. He was a disaster last year when teams went inside. I don’t care if Nellie thought he should play center. He also thought that Owens was better than Richmond. Wrong. You know the Warriors still need a mobile center to play the spread four effectively.

    Speights is not better than Landry offensively. You can’t discount shooting percentage. Why do you think their salaries are so far apart?

    • Frank, when Landry was hot, he was hot. When cold, very cold. If Speights can be a little bit more consistent than that, the Warriors will be happy with the pick-up. He doesn’t need to average 15 points per game, but a solid 6 to 8 off the bench, along with 5 rebounds would be just what the doctor ordered.

      The Warriors, as constructed with legitimate scorers at every position (except C when Bogut is on the floor) shouldn’t go through some of the offensive droughts we saw at times last year. The reason their point differential was less than 1 was because they simply had long droughts against teams they shouldn’t have had trouble beating. By adding free agent experience and with one extra year of experience for Curry, Thompson and Barnes, I see this team as being more consistent offensively, along with being very difficult to defend.

      • I do like Speights’ offensive rebounding numbers. He was very active on the boards, long and athletic the couple of games I watched him play.

  24. Douglas-82 games. I believe opponents shot 49 percent against him as they did against Jack. If you have other stats to show he’s a better defender, I believe he was better than Jack making steals.

    • you might try watching video tape of games instead of heavy reliance on stats, Frank. what the stats don’t show, for example, is how coaches expose the weaknesses of their own players, instead of the opponents, by over using role players or letting the opponent dictate match ups. stats also need to be put into context, team by team. one team for example likes to make its rookies learn a different position, to depress the player’s stats and evaluate him for the post-rookie resigning. jack might never again have the stats he enjoyed in oaktown, because he won’t be sharing the court all those minutes with curry and thompson.

  25. Felty: Are you contending that Speights is better than with O’Neal or Bogut at the center position? How can ignore that opposing centers destroyed him the last two years?

  26. Warriors starting unit next season should be:
    1 Curry
    2 Thompson
    3. Iggy
    4 lee
    5O’Neal

    2nd unit

    1 Douglas
    2
    3 Barnes
    4. Green
    5 Bogut

    It won’t be.

    • Andrew Bogut healthy has got to be the starting C.

      I’d like to see playoffs Barnes/Green play as much stretch 4 as is tolerable… So fun to watch!

  27. Timing must be everything in free agency. The Warriors were able to shop Jefferson and Biedrins. Dallas, however, is trying to shop Shawn Marion, a $9m expiring contract, a worthwhile piece, and so far can’t get any takers.

    • every team’s cap space was known to all when the season ended, which narrowed the candidates when myers was shopping the biedrins and jefferson contracts. UT was expected to let a.jefferson leave, and he helped out by making a verbal agreement very early in the hunting season. meanwhile, Dal was caught up in the howard fiasco. you probably don’t wish to be seen shopping a proven vet and winner like marion if you’re trying to look like a plausible championship contender to das übermensch.

      the execs like myers know the timing game quite well — myers gamed it constantly as an agent. one of the changes in the new c.b.a. was reducing the limbo period when an offer is made to another team’s restricted free agent — those offers can put everything else into stasis for the team making the offer.

  28. Do Warriors still have mid-level exemption to spend?
    How much is TPE worth? Any other monies available?

    • have to wait for the signings to see how much of the three different t.p.e.’s get expended. same with the mid-level, part of it could go to either speights or douglas. since you like looking up stats Frank the info is just as accessible.

    • I’m guessing they’re done, aside from minor tweaking. They should have enough players to start the season and adjust to contingencies, and maybe there will be some cash and/or an exception to play with later in the season. We’ll find out tomorrow.

  29. The W’s Front Office really earned their keep this off-season. I’m giddy. And here many of us thought they couldn’t adequately replace Jack/Landry… And with a few bucks to spare.

    Nedovic signed.

    http://blog.sfgate.com/warriors/2013/07/09/warriors-sign-first-round-pick-nemanja-nedovic/

    • If Douglas is a one year backup, maybe Nedovic is a work in progress who might develop into that role. There are similarities between him and Lin—positive and negative.

  30. Good wrapup of today’s proceedings here:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/free-agent-roundup-warriors-add-speights-douglas-o-212145900.html#more-46817

    With a more balanced view of Douglas.

    It looks like about 3y x $5m for Speights, with a team option on the third year.

    1y x $1.6m for Douglas.

    1y x $2m for O’Neal.

    Which means they should have a lot of money left over before they hit the tax threshold, and maybe an exception. And won’t be loaded up with commitments next year.

    I’m sorry they missed out on Luigi “Gigi” Datome from the Italian league, however. How can you go wrong with a name like that?

    • no numbers are confirmed w. speights, just the team option on the third season. 5 m. per annum for him would be steep, but bigs get overpaid. if anyone has doubts about bigs carrying a tax-like premium on their own, look up the career earnings of a.jamison (woeyr via trade for vince carter) or d’alembert. puts the dearly departed biedrins in context.

      • Still not official, but Speights should be much cheaper than 5 mil/yr:

        I heard Speights is getting three years for $9 million, but haven't confirmed. Still uncertain whether it will be a trade or signing— Marcus Thompson (@gswscribe) July 9, 2013

        • that 3 m. is about where it should be, considering they don’t want to need him more than 14-18 m. per game. teams can control costs if they draft accurately. Nedovic, drafted at the very end of the first round, will only be making around the vet minimum, < 1 m. the cost of his pick was cheaper than what they had to pay for a second rounder used for tyler. the team hasn't drafted and kept its own big since biedrins, and one year into his second contract he started to fall apart. the lacobites kept this streak going by drafting guards or wings three consecutive drafts, and talking up barnes into playing the 4 part time won't change him into kawhi leonard.

  31. I think given the salary cap issues the Warriors had at the start the FO has done a pretty amazing job. Everyone knew it would be unlikely that they would be able to resign Jack or Landry. Given the years and overall amounts of their new contracts that was a certain reality. As great as both were for the Warriors last year much like their replacements both have been journeymen in the NBA that came into the perfect situation. There is no way anyone would have thought the Dubs would end up with Iggy, Speights, O’Neal and Douglas. Of course some of these guys aren’t difference makers but what you want from your bench is players capable of providing quality minutes. If they were complete players they would be starters. You want players who fit a roll. Speights provides a big body that you can run the same pick and pop offense as you do with the starter Lee, a possible bigger version of Landry and a huge upgrade over an undersized Jefferson. O’Neal provides a rugged, veteran backup center with an offensive game that is an upgrade over the tandem of Beidrins and Ezeli. Douglas won’t replace the play making or big shot making of Jack however he will be an adequate offense threat and a better defensive presence against point guards. With Curry and Jack you had two poor defenders at point guard. You can give a few minutes rest Curry while you allow Douglas along with possibly Bazemore time to harrass the opposing PG. All in all the team looks to have gotten better defensively while actually adding more depth offensively. There are legitimate offensive threats at Center with Iggy gives them a slashing and driving option that wasn’t present last year from the wing beyond what Barnes did in the playoffs. Add a year a maturity for Barnes, Green, Bazemore, Thompson and even Cury to a hopefully much healthier Bogut. The team is going to be in the mix.

    • This 47-win team just added an impact All-Star player in Andre Iguodala – and didn’t lose any starters!

      Iggy is a perfect fit with what this team needs given his strengths (elite wing defender, size/athleticism, facilitator, rebounder, slasher/finisher, and season vet) AND weaknesses as a player (below average perimeter shooter on a team of elite perimeter shooters and being a below average #1 scoring option – on a team that doesn’t need much scoring from him.).

      The bench looks talented, diversified/well put together, and deep.

      The financial house – is in better order.

      Getcha popcorn ready!!!

  32. This is a great job by the front office, and that makes it the 2nd year in a row. The team is better offensively, defensively, and with a dazzling array of match up flexibilities. Think of how close the W’s were to the Spurs in that playoff series, and now they have just added 3 additional legitimate bench players along with an all star – Iggy. Most importantly, the FO has seemed to embrace the small ball lineups with the biggest addition being Iggy. And, Bogut salary comes off the payroll next year for flexibility next off season.

    Warriors have to be considered as top contenders in the West. This team is significantly better this year with the roster additions and most importantly, the organic improvements in Klay, Barnes, Ezeli, and Green from a successful year of NBA play for each of them and playoff success. Gone are the days of Lee and Curry playing 40+ minutes, game after game. This will help at the end of each game, and more importantly in the playoffs. Oh yes, the playoffs are now a given.

    This is the most excited I have ever been about the W’s. They can now move forward from a position of strength. I have a confidence level in the FO that has never existed before.

    Lacob is doing it right – executive of the year…..

  33. Man oh man – where does Harrison Barnes fit into this team?
    And my goodness, two elite perimeter defenders…

    • He must be running out of money and in need of a quick $2 or $3 million. His body is so broken down that any thoughts of being Andre Miller 2.0 are mere pipe dreams. Sorry Baron, you never should have left for the Clippers.

  34. While statistically opponents facing Douglas shot as well against as they did against Jack, I suspect that Douglas was not only better making steals, but also caused deflections and turnovers (traveling, throwing ball pit of bounds, etc.) that are not listed in a players individual stats. This is reflected by Sacramento outscoring their opponents with Douglas on the floor than they did with any other player on the roster.

    I agree that Speights has the strength and mobility to play center and the offense may work well playing center, but the big unanswered question is which defender will show up. The one that was good playing three years ago for Philly or the me who was terrible the last two years?
    But, he”s not a shot locker.

    Myers strength was in getting players to agree to come to the Warriors. Picking out the players to sign was an easier task.

    The key trade that opened all that followed was the trade with Utah.
    It was difficult to see that any team would take two bloated contracts, but Meyers made it happen. Secondly his ability to structure the sign and trade that allowed the Warriors to fee up players they signed and that allows for more players to be signed or traded for.

    But. , one cannot ignore all the blunders that Lacob and Myers made prior to this year.

    The Warriors one point advantage in scoring differential was due to their not having many players who provided them with extra possessions. Now, they have added three in Iggy who is off the chart in this category, Douglas, and O’Neal, and only lost Landry who was an extra possession guy.

    So, the Warriors are posed to increase the scoring differential next year and obtain more wins barring multiple injuries.

  35. Monta just switched agents. Not a great sign for him.

    • word is, he wants a four year deal, vs. the three year Mil offer. fried has been his agent nearly his entire career. Sac is still in the running, but have to off load a player to bring in a fat contract.

  36. Are Warriors considering signing Corey Brewer? Said to be in town.

  37. Warriors need to keeping stacking players and then trade for another impact player. Still would like to see big who can hit threes, and another SG.

    Warriors will have at least three 3-point shooters on court at all times, and four when either Green or Barnes at PF.

    It’s getting down to whether the coaching staff can match last year

    Warrior-Clipper games should be unreal.

  38. The FO should still have money to spend. Any chance they’ll pull one more deal or would it make sense to wait later in the season, maybe pick up an expiring contract then? And if they do keep shopping, who?

    2014 free agents:

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/2014-nba-free-agents

    What a difference having some bucks in the bank makes. I’m curious how this happened. Did they enter free agency having good reason to think they could unload those contracts, or did the chance with Utah suddenly appear and they jumped on it? Did the Howard trade motivate them to start looking, or was this the plan all along? Whatever the case, without Utah, none of the changes happen.

    Had they followed past practice, they would have put the money into one more major contract, and a gamble with Bynum wasn’t unthinkable, though maybe they’re still thinking Bogut will be able to continue next year.

    Instead, they broke out of the 3-star-mold and spread the money down the roster (if you exclude Howard, and they had to know their chances here weren’t great). This is promising.

    • One estimate is they’ll have about $9m to spend without going into tax (the hard cap, with an exception).

    • from chasing howard to signing o’neal only makes sense if they’re still looking at centers. boss felt has predicted that the back up five will start more than 40 games. seeing o’neal and speights starting for those 40+ games doesn’t sound like a fifty win team.

      • warriorsablaze

        We won nearly that with Ezeli starting this past season. If Bogut continues to be an occasional player, I suspect we’ll spend a lot of time in small ball land just like last year… depending on matchups, of course.

  39. Pacers signed CJ Watson. Exactly what they need: veteran floorspreader.

  40. While PG opponents playing Sac shot 49 percent against Douglas (same as Jack) from the floor, prior in the year while playing for Houston, PG opponents shot 47 percent, and the year before at NY, shot 42%. Hope he can hold opposing PG to the later FG percentage.

    Regardless, he will help the Warriors by being a good shooter and by defensively making steals, deflections, and causing turnovers. Only real negative is his lack of assists-2 plus per game. And that’s a significant negative.

  41. Sac adds more experience to the FO:

    “NBA executive Chris Granger is leaving the league offices to become the president of the Sacramento Kings.Granger worked for the NBA the past 14 years. He has most recently led the league’s team marketing and business operations, including assisting Sacramento’s ticket and sponsorship efforts since the franchise was sold to Vivek Ranadive in May.”

    from Yahoo

  42. While the Warriors have improved getting players who can garner the Warriors extra possessions, the Warriors have not addressed a glaring problem of having players who can get to the foul-ine, as none of the players they signed get to the foul line very much.

  43. Brewer would give the Warriors a net one extra possession per game, and did shoot 2’s at 49 percent clip for Denver. He was putrid in the playoffs playing against us.

    On defense, SG opponents shot 49% against him, compared to shooting 48% against Thompson. Barnes should probably back-up Thompson as SG’s only shot 38% against him.

    Playing against SF, SF’s shot 49% against Brewer, Thompson, and Barnes.

    I would keep Iggy at SF and not play him at SG.

  44. Here’s a rumor that should keep us talking:

    NBA Trade Rumors: Mavericks Want Andrew Bogut If Andrew Bynum Chooses Cavs

    http://fansided.com/2013/07/10/nba-trade-rumors-mavericks-want-andrew-bogut-andrew-bynum-cavs/

    Who could they send back?

    • warriorsablaze

      I don’t see what they could possibly have to offer. Are they gonna send us Dirk? I suppose they could forget about this season and just hope to get Bogut in free agency next season.

      I don’t think this one has legs at all.

      • Honestly, the Mavs would be better off piecing out the vets for draft picks and blowing it up…

        Cuban really mucked it up by not re-signing Tyson Chandler and defending the title.

        • Totally agree with you PB. All Cuban has at this point is Dirk and a bunch of obscure or over-the-hill players.

          Out West the top 4 teams have to be OKC, SA, Memphis, GS, Houston. The teams each have question marks. OKC: Westbrook’s health, Spurs: Age of star players, Memphis: Coaching and guard play, GS: center/health, Houston: Howard’s ego/offensive flow.

          The West is truly wide open.

          • I’d add the Clips in that list too – and they aren’t without questions as well.

            Of the Mavs still left, I’ve always been a fan of Marion’s defense, athleticism, and rebounding – although I admit not seeing him play last year. At all.

    • Well, Bynum to Cleveland. Curious to see what Cuban does.

      • donnie nelson undoubtedly has a list of candidates he’ll pursue, and don’t be surprised if brand gets a generous offer to re-sign with them.

      • getting back with mike brown was apparently a factor in bynum’s decision, though it’s doubtful any other team would guarantee him 6 m. (another 6 m. in incentives with certain benchmarks met in playing time). supposedly brown was a reason jack also chose Cle.

  45. Ranadive just hired his president for the bidness side, Chris Granger, one of stern/silver’s top executives. an insider for marketing angles. will there be a couple of spoilers in the bottom playoff seeds next spring ? how far will the free fall be for LA-L and Den ?

    • warriorsablaze

      Unless LA pulls something crazy off or Kobe comes back strong early in the season and goes nuts, I can’t see how they could be a playoff team with how strong the West looks to be next season. Denver is likely to fall out as well, but who knows, they still have a lot of talent buried on their roster. Minnesota is the most likely to jump into the mix as long as they don’t all go down with injuries like last season. Not sure about Sac. They making a lot of good moves trying to turn around the organization, but I don’t think they have a good roster yet. Talented, but still lots of mismatched, low IQ players hanging around. Maybe Malone will work miracles.

  46. If Warriors talking to Dallas, are they considering Bogut for Marion and Carter? Are both available?

    • I doubt there’s anything here at all. Not a good source. Fun to think about, though. Cuban must be frantic, however, and who knows what he might try to pull off? No Howard, no Chandler.

  47. Felty: Did you express before Howard signed with Houston that you were both against his signing and your reason for so. I just had the feeling you were against it. As for me, I was for signing Howard for one year and seeing how he did.

    I think even you would admit he’s better than Bogut, even with the Warriors wanting to play a different style of play.

    If Speights turns out to be good center, my hat’s off to you.

    • Frank, can’t speak for Felt, but my take on Lacob’s Howard chase is that he did it because Howard is a marquee player, not necessarily a good player for the team. Merely being seen as a serious candidate for Howard’s services validates that the Warriors are not the same old bunch of sad sacks.

      Personally, I think the Warriors are a better team without him, and Lacob & Co. handled the negotiations perfectly. If Howard heals up, he’ll help Houston win some games, but he’ll cost them some games too. And if he doesn’t heal up and play better than he did last year, his contract will cripple the Rockets for years. Too risky. He hasn’t been good for team chemistry in has last couple of years.

      FWIW, Howard was not available for a 1 year contract. Teams had to offer him the max, 4 years, to be in the discussion.

      Speights is a large guy with a good midrange shot. OK rebounding, below-par defense. A couple of his previous coaches have said he doesn’t work hard enough, and he has never gotten a lot of playing time in the NBA. I’m glad the Ws got him. He fills a need and he’ll make a contribution. But on a quality team he’s not a starter or finisher.

    • if your team is negotiating with a prima donna free agent of howard’s ‘status’ [as we know, partly constructed from his actual accomplishments, partly from the hype and commercial propaganda, partly a function of the celebrity athlete’s narcissism], it has more to lose than gain by even mentioning a one year deal. the player’s agent probably spells out the ground rules of negotiation before they start, excluding bids of that ilk.

      • I wanted a sign and trade of Dwight Howard – the best center in the NBA – for 4 years at the max. I would have traded Andrew Bogut – my favorite player – and Harrison Barnes and salaries to make the deal work. I would not have included Klay or Curry under any circumstances.

        PG Curry
        SG Klay
        SF Iguodala
        PF Lee
        C Howard

        I could sleep well with this roster…

        • I think any team would make that offer, and if the Lackers thought that was the best they could do, they’d take it. But Howard didn’t permit a trade. He simply left LA flat, without a thought for them even though it would have been in his own financial interest to allow a sign-and-trade deal. It would have meant another guaranteed $20M+ in his pocket. That’s something an injured, older player should really think about. But he couldn’t be bothered to wait for a trade to be worked out.

          And that’s the problem with Howard. He’s now left two teams demolished behind him. While he can be a great player, he’s repeatedly proven to be a lousy teammate. The Ws are probably a better TEAM with a solid guy like Bogut instead, and if Howard repeats his pattern, the Rockets could be in for some rough times.

          • I don’t feel any sorrow for the Orlando Magic which did get some assets in trading Howard to the LA Lakers – and the Magic did have long, great playoff runs with Howard – while fielding a crap supporting cast (thanks to our Otis Smith) and making tons of money in the process.

            The Lakers were also done a huge favor on many levels – 1) they dumped the stiff Andrew Bynum onto the poor Sixers – If anything, the 76ers were fleeced – who lost Iguodala for NOTHING – and got the privilege to pay Bynum monster money just to bowl a few games! Lol! 2) With Howard leaving as an UFA, the Lakers are now able to avoid HUGE luxury tax penalties without any effort (giving Gasol away for free or amnestying Kobe) – and let’s face it – they would have sucked EVEN with Howard.

            I like to think that any Unrestricted Free Agent has earned the right to bolt to any team in the league – but I’d agree it’s just the manner of how Howard does things that stings. And Howard did this – while potentially walking away from $30 million buckaroos? Puzzling…

          • under the present incarnation of the c.b.a., if a player re-signs prior to a sign and trade, he’s not eligible for the same max deal that he’d get if he were staying. has to be a re-signing with the player remaining.

          • moto, you’re right, of course. Howard would have had to agree to hold off on signing with Houston, to allow time for LA and Houston to negotiate a trade. Presumably, that would have made it possible for the Ws and others to stay in the hunt too, as counter-bidders.

            That might have complicated things for Howard. LA might have preferred to deal with the Ws, Dallas or some other team instead of Howard’s choice. It could have delayed closure for months.

            In the end, Howard could have nixed any deal, though, so permitting LA to get something back for him would have gained him another guaranteed year’s pay, helped LA (they’d have probably gotten Asik and more from Houston), and cost him absolutely nothing.

            All he would have had to do was wait while the little people worked things out. But he didn’t care to wait. Screw it all, Dwight wants what Dwight wants. That’s a scary ego.

  48. Remember Reggie Williams? Held back by a knee injury and a slew of incompetent coaches, now signed to the minimum by the Rockets.

    • It’s good to hear Reggie has escaped from Charlotte. Hopefully his knee problems have healed up too. A tremendous all-over-the-court scorer, just what the Rockets need. Hopefully he’s learned some defense by now too.

      • I wouldn’t count on any defense from Reggie – but a sweet perimeter shooter who could handle the ball – is a nice piece to have on any bench. And at the minimum? Highway robbery.

    • warriorsablaze

      Would have been nice to have picked him up… though we seem to have plenty of wings these days. No defense, at all, but good scoring instincts and seemed like a good guy in the locker room.

  49. Hat: Disagree. Lacob has tried to get Howard for two years even offering specific players last year. This year not a ruse. Bogut surely knows that.

    Yes, Howard would not accept a one year contract that would have let him sign a max deal after the year expired. instead he accepted a four year contract for $30 million less. Yes, a one year contract risks him getting injured and not getting a max contract, but the risk was worth taking. But I admit it’s his call. I was not saying one way or the other whether the Warriors give him a max contract at the expiration of the one year contract.

    • Lacob’s pass at Howard last year was a league-wide joke. Like a nerdy fan hopelessly peeking in the window at his favorite movie star. I don’t think we can really count that as an honest attempt to sign Howard. It was so ludicrous that it may have swung Howard’s decision to Houston this year.

      • FeltbotsFakeGirlfriend

        Your statement above is a joke. You have no direct knowledge of this. Stop spewing your slander. Quite the opposite the fact that the Warriors went after the Warriors made the look good. Take your head out of the sand Hat.

        • Huh?

          FFG, are you under the impression that the Ws had a realistic shot at Howard last year? What/who did they have to offer in trade? Why would Howard consider going to a losing team? Did Howard actually speak to the Warriors? Even once?

          I’d love to hear any facts you can bring to the discussion. Otherwise don’t bother.

          • FeltbotsFakeGirlfriend

            The Warriors a losing team? They finished with a better record than the Rockets. The Warriors didn’t need to trade for him. They could have unloaded Bogut to clear space and had teams lined up to do just that. I guess that is beyond your comprehension level. You must be stupid if you don’t know that the Warriors met with Dwight Howard in LA along with the Hawks, Mavs, Rockets and Lakers. Go back to your Grandmas basement Hat.

          • Learn to read or get someone to read it to you.

  50. I just remembered: Stephen Jackson is a free agent.

    There is literally no one out there who could help this Warriors team more.

    #killer #champion

    • The DirkSlayer.

      • The Spurs could have used SJax in the playoffs to stop Harrison Barnes. Pops chose to cut him instead. Too many burned bridges with too many teams for SJax. I’ll be shocked if he’s signed – and I’ll bet he can still play.

        • From Tweeter
          Marcus Thompson ‏@gswscribe 2h

          “All the racial slurs … all the things I heard about my mom … my kids … It felt good to punch a fan one time. I’m not gone lie.” SJax

      • In most NBA teams today, PR is considered a job responsibility. Handling it as irresponsibly as Jackson has would disqualify him almost anywhere.

        If he ever plays again in the NBA, it will be with a small, non-guaranteed contract. Not sure Jax’s ego would permit him to go that route. I’m afraid he might be out of the league.

  51. Hat: The Warriors original proposed dal to Utah included Bogut, another indication the Warriors were dead serious about acquiring Howard.

    Like to see Warriors consider trading Bogut to Dallas if the have some decent players with expiring contracts. Reports are they want him now that there pursuit of Bynum fell through. Surprised Warriors didn’t pursue Bynum. have they learned a leasin not to pursue costly players coming off major injuries?

    • Mention of slight possibility here:

      http://mavsblog.dallasnews.com/2013/07/mavericks-may-turn-to-trade-market-if-they-swing-and-miss-on-andrew-bynum-whos-on-the-wish-list.html/

      Cuban is desperate and might work some three team deals? But Lacob would want to get back a center.

    • Frank, agree that the Ws would have taken Howard if they could have worked out a deal. Agree that that would have made Bogut expendable.

      But Bogut is not going anywhere this year unless the Ws get back a top center in his place. Bynum played 0 minutes last year, may never actually play again, and just signed with Cleveland. Houston says they want to keep Asik. Gasol, Chandler, Hibbert, Horford are all locked in. Dallas doesn’t even have a C – Kaman left and the team lists a pile of coathangers (Brandan Wright) at that spot.

      So right this minute it’s hard to imagine a scenario that makes trading Bogut a win for the Ws.

      • My fantasy is some three team deal that unloads Bogut and frees up Asik for us. Houston may yet deal him, and we can afford him.

  52. Billups will return to Detroit, 2y x around 2.5m. I kind of wish we’d taken a shot at him. He would have provided experience and stability, and he could have run point as a sub or started there in a pinch. He’d also have been happy and motivated to be on a contending team.

    • I’m frankly surprised Big Shot Billups is even still around. He was pretty old prior to his season ending injuries with the Clippers – the last couple of seasons.

  53. The Ws believe they have 4 or 5 backup PGs right now:

    Iggy
    Douglas
    Bazemore
    Nedovic
    Murphy (?)

    None of them have Billups’ experience, but they’re all younger and better athletes. Unless a low-cost, reliable, healthy, not-too-old starter-quality PG comes along, I don’t see the Ws putting more $ into the backup PG spot this summer.

    FWIW, Monta is still unsigned and with a little cap creativity the Ws could conceivably cover his expected contract. Not likely, of course, but a fun thought.

    • They’re not really point guards, or have too little experience. Billups would be a cheap insurance policy that possibly could pay off in many ways. And maybe he could bring the others along. He would also have the most playoff experience of anyone on the team.

      • All true. Billups could be a plus in many ways.

        But he’s also a minus in some ways. Slow, injured a lot, not great D.

        My point is that the Ws are already committed to many others at his spot and most them can only play PG, so unless a really super (and under-valued) player shows up, the team is unlikely to sink any more cap space into the position behind Curry. They have other uses for the money.

        For one example, I don’t think we’ve heard the final word on Asik yet. Houston says they want to keep him, but that could well be just their opening position for possible trade negotiations.

        Keeping the option open to negotiate a Bogut/Asik swap would make more sense for the Ws than adding yet another occasional-use PG.

  54. Monta firing/blaming his agent? Why, because the agent couldn’t get MORE than $12 million per season for 3 years on a team better than the Bucks 8th seed in the East in a cold city in the winter? 8th seed is STILL the playoffs.

    THE RUDE AWAKENING…

    Perhaps Monta should have shot better than .416 FG%, .287 3 PFG%, and played better defense…

    The 2nd best SG in the league (in Monta’s mind only) being offered 6th man/journeyman $6 million/year deals? I think he deserves more, but time, leverage, and team’s salary cap space – is not on his side here.

    • PB, it sounds like you think Monta’s current situation (whatever it is) is entirely his fault, due to his ego or something.

      Here’s another possibility: If it’s true that Monta isn’t getting good offers (don’t know), then his agent probably (don’t know) gave him bad advice in the first place, in advising him to opt out of his fat contract. In that case, Monta absolutely should fire the guy.

      Hey, with a new agent, maybe Monta would even quit making those self-promotional videos that only convince fans he’s delusional. Agents advise players on PR, too.

      • I don’t know Monta Ellis personally – so I can’t comment on his ego – just that Monta’s opinion of his game/value and the league’s perception of his game/value – are likely entirely different. Which is reason itself for firing an agent – IF he didn’t accurately project the market accurately or couldn’t convince Ellis of the reality of the new CBA/his real value.

        Opting out of his contract was a good decision and a better one than I expected because Monta DID receive an offer from the Bucks for an additional 2 years at $12 million per year – or 3 years, $36 million to re-sign with the Bucks. Great offer for Ellis in this new CBA environment for a small market team. They chose not to accept it. So far.

        There’s still time.

        I’d like to see Monta coming off of OKC’s bench (replacing Martin/Harden role) as a pure scoring machine…

  55. It will be interesting to see who plays more minutes at center for the Warriors: Bogut, O’Neal, Speights or Lee. I think the Warriors will do just as well if not better with O’Neal, Lee, or Speights playing center. Bogut is expendable at this point in time. Plus, we need to shore up the SG position.

    When Bogut’s poor foul shooting is factored in along with his shooting 45% from the field, and his poor interior weak side defense, the Warriors should do just as well playing other centers.Does anyone really expect that he’ll play half the games?

    The Warriors need to trade for a player like Udoh, a true impactful center off the ball. If they did they’d run the table, as they likely would have last year.

    We don’t need to trade Bogut for a center nor should we. We need another good SG, and a bigger PF who could hit the three.

    • For the record, Udoh shot .435 from the field this season (and actually career too!) and rebounds like a SG. I’d have to look it up – but I’m pretty sure SG Andre Iguodala rebounds as good or better than Ekpe Udoh…

      Would love Udoh on the W’s bench for his defense and shot-blocking for sure. He’s likely available as the Bucks have lots of the same type of players.

      Bogut started 44 games last season – and with a summer off, I’d expect more, but am only concerned he’s healthy for the playoffs.

      Playoff Bogut – what REALLY matters – was a monster force.

      http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/2747/seasontype/3/andrew-bogut

      .582 FG%, 3.3 OR, 10.9 RB, 1.8 AST, 1.5 BLK, 0.5 STL.

      • Actually, the Bucks traded Luc Mbah a Moute to the Sac Kings – another no-offense/shot, all-defense Bucks big – so maybe Ekpe isn’t as available as I thought. And Dalembert is a FA. Henson, Sanders, Ekpe, Dalembert, and Luc Mbah a Moute – was an overkill…

  56. It’s a mistake to point out that Iggy only hit 57% of his foul shots, and not point out that he takes less four per game, and that such translates into much less than 1/2 point per game if he had shot say 80%.

    For the same reason, it would be wrong to extol Thompson for hitting 84% of his free throws when he takes less than 3 per game.

    I want to correct a previous stat for Iggy. He provides the Warriors with
    1.3 net extra possessions per game.

    It’s also misleading to point out and complain that Udoh didn’t garner many defensive rebounds, when in fact, the Warriors opponent team missed more shots due to his presence on the court, and therefore the Warriors obtained more defensive rebounds, then they otherwise would have, due to his making the opponent miss more shots. Another reason he had such a high positive when he played for the Warriors. And other reason why he did exactly what no other Warrior has done in recent memory-making teams miss a ton of shots which the intent of
    defense. One should concentrate on a players making teams miss, not defensive rebounds. My only caveat is that if a player does not make players miss and does not garner many defensive rebounds when he should playing inside, then there is a reason to point out his lack of defensive rebounds.

  57. The Warriors would have been much better off getting B. Wright instead of Speights as he’s a much better shooter and defender than Speights. Wright held opponent PF and centers to shooting under 48%, opponents against Speights shot well over 50 and 60% at both positions.

    It would have been great to have his 60% shooting. Felty, you never liked B. Wright even though he shot between 60-65% since leaving us. Although, it may well have been that B.Wright did not want to return, but I suspect the Warriors didn’t want him to return either. Big mistake.

    He and V.Carter performed great for Dallas last year as Dallas outscored their opponents when the were on the court. Warriors should go after V. Carter as a back-up SG if his contract expires rather soon.

  58. Warriors GM Joe Lacob gives the interview:

    http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2013/07/11/the-warriors-joe-lacob-on-adding-iguodala-chasing-howard-and-where-the-gsws-now-fit-in-the-nba-landscape/

    He unconsciously reveals his preference for who goes to the bench. Sure hope Mark Jackson is smart enough to defy him.

    • Looks like they’re done for now, and that they’re saving their cash and exceptions for later.

      I do see more restraint here than in previous interviews, and more use of “we.” Maybe he’s referring to himself indirectly, or maybe he’s listening more, given his experiences from the past. At any rate, the recent decisions do represent a shift towards balance in the roster.

      Jackson proved he could succeed with a variety of lineups, and he has too many good players now not to use them. He may well have a free rein the coming season.

      Barnes is a curious case, though. Everything points to less playing time and not starting, but that would decrease his trade value over the season. Maybe he will get a chance to develop without the pressure.

      But I say strike soon, while the iron is hot.

      • I want to watch this video – where Joe Lacob is seen actually pounding his chest, waving his index finger in the air, sticking his chin up high, and basking in all the glorious sunlight. The W’s are impressing.

        Plenty of minutes to go around for Klay, Iguodala, and Barnes. And it’d be a sin after the playoffs NOT to play Barnes minutes against half the slow, plodding PFs in the NBA.

    • there’s a good reminder in the interview how the blogs, fans, media recirculate and recycle a rumor, and the regurgitation morphs into ‘from multiple sources’. using the equivalent of gossips for ‘multiple sources’ isn’t quite the same thing as confirmation. here, lacob insists that d.lee wasn’t offered in any trade. he might be lying, or not, but this means no one else in his brain trust or on his payroll will ever confirm the stuff about lee getting shopped recently. but the rumors were circulating long enough, and it was such ideal fuel for fans addicted to trade speculation, that a year or two from now there will be some fans who will remember the rumor as actuality. the thirteen players they’ve just assembled haven’t even met each other yet but fans are busily trading them.

      • They didn’t attempt to trade Lee? The sources for both deals were good. Although AW suggested they were just testing the market, a process I don’t quite understand. But maybe that’s what Lacob meant.

        • supposing lacob spoke truthfully, if there was any ‘testing the market’, it came from prospective buyers, not the lacobites re. lee. if you refer to Wojnarowski, he has to market himself too. if he’s willing to cite sources and names to prove lacob a liar, he knows the consequences for the future as far as getting information from the woeyrs and probably other teams as well. if fans want to think that schenk or the younger lacob or one of their operatives did some back channel preliminary dialogue shopping lee, and didn’t tell the boss, fans will be fans.

          lacob’s words — “He has never been offered in a trade. Never. Not once was it discussed on our end to consider trading him for anybody.” he did not exclude the possibility of other teams making proposals. “We’ll always listen, and it could be about anybody on the court .”

  59. B. Wright, along with his hot shooting, garners a net 2 extra possessions per game, Speights-0.

    • Frank, at C/PF, a complete player defends, scores and rebounds. That makes Udoh about 1/3 a player. A truly excellent big does even more – he sets picks (Udoh does), blocks out (Udoh doesn’t) and facilitates the overall team offense with good placement, movement and passing (Udoh doesn’t).

      Udoh: great help D, nothing else. That’s not enough. And that’s why he’s a career backup destined to play short minutes wherever he goes, forever.

      B. Wright is listed at 210. Many guards weigh more. Curry could beat him at arm wrestling. My grandma could beat him at arm wrestling. And she’s on life support.

      Wright: Good length to block shots. Poor defensive footwork. No boxing out. Unblockable shot but very poor range. Soft, weak, injury-prone.

      Let it go, Frank, please. I’m beggin ya.

  60. Hat: Udoh was raked 2nd in NBA in efficiently and the Warriors ranked 2nd in defense in the games he started. The warriors outscored their opponents by the largest margin with him on the court. Even with a much better supporting cast this year, I predict the scoring margin for any of centers will ever be 6.7 plus as they were with Udoh.

    Bogut last year, playing for a better team only had a plus 2, one third of Udoh’ sc positive. I predicted that. So if want no chance of getting to or winning the NbA finals don’t get Udoh .

    B,. Wright is much better than Speights on both sides of the ball point you don’t address. The list of things he doesn’t is far more extensive.

    • Frank, you can count all of Udoh’s starts on one hand! Through 3 seasons! On crappy teams!

      You seem to think most NBA coaches and GMs are idiots.

      Try this little thought experiment: Assume all those successful guys got to the pinnacle of their professions because they’re NOT idiots. Where does that leave your theories about Udoh?

      I mean, c’mon, why are we getting all sweaty about a guy who has played only limited minutes under 4 different coaches? My grandma can outrebound Udoh! As soon as she gets off life support, she’ll take out her walker and prove it!

      • p.s. after my grandma snaps Brandan Wright’s arm like a twig, she’ll drink his beer and steal his girlfriend.

      • best wishes for you grandma. she lived to enjoy her grandchildren, great grand kids perhaps ? hope she has peace and serenity in her remaining time with you.

        • Yeah, peace and serenity, that’s the ticket. When we can fit it in around all the Brandan bashing.

  61. with the possibility raised that lacob lied in his interview re. the team offering lee in trades, iguodala just now in his tolbert/ratto interview flatly denied that Den was instructed to target curry with screens and fouls in the playoffs.

    of course, iguodala could be following his guild’s unwritten code about publicly disclosing such matters. o.t.o.h., the principal if not sole source for the story was none other than the preacher. now, if a guy is willing to invoke sectarian religious beliefs for motivational purposes, what prevents him from a little fabrication to work the officials and psychologically bolster his guys ?

    • It’s all the game within the game within the game… Yes, Lacob’s a big, fat liar – Everyone short of Curry was being shopped or trade value assessed – Lacob/Myers were even shopping their mothers, if it got them the best center in the NBA or dumped RJeff’s and Biedrins’ horrendous contracts – I’m certain of it! Lol! So was Iguodala and Mark Jackson – we all know it happened, just that they can’t or shouldn’t repeat what happened.

      The truth always hurts. Lee and Bogut and Barnes – we’ll see how the chemistry is this season…

    • As in politics, sports has become a place where you have to lie to survive. It’s our job to figure out who the honest liars are, as best we can. Both are possible—Igoudala tipped Jackson off and had to deny tipping him off.

      I really doubt Jackson made up his informer. A guy who won’t cuss and tells referees to give him a technical because he doesn’t want to lose his temper wouldn’t lie so brazenly. And I give his performance credit for giving our guys a break in the refereeing, well within bounds of the game behind the game.

      I must confess I’m starting to like Jackson. He does have a strong personality and is engaging in his way. I think he is a good guy who stumbled with some opportunities years ago I certainly never had. The guys respond to him well, but then again, they’re easy guys to work with. He also stood up to the pressures of a dismal first season fairly well, and the tank was probably an order. I also suspect he’s a much sharper coach than we’ve given him credit for.

      He does need to make serious revisions in his statements of faith, but if he did, he would still keep his faith and have the same influence on the guys, many of whom care as well. And his statements wouldn’t then offend believers and nonbelievers alike.

      I do believe Bill Clinton inhaled, btw.

      Curry has been put on the blocks several times earlier, at least tentatively, in the Paul and Howard pursuits.

      • curry would not be offered in a howard transaction because das übermensch would not want to join a curry-less woeyr team.

  62. Hat: The game has changed. With centers very rarely hitting threes, there is little reason for teams to go inside to them. Little reason for them to shoot much inside. Actually, it not good to go inside unless a big likes B.Wright hits 60% of his shots.

    With the advent of the three point shot, as Felty has pointed out offenses either shoot the three or take it to the hoop. That the modern game. The main purpose of inside defense today is for the big inside to be extremely mobile, and able to provide weakside help to stop slashers and offensive players lurking inside.

    Bogut can’t do that. The game has past by big oafs like Bogut. He is limited to putting a big body on his guy. That’s it. Same for Speights. I thought he was quick. But his defensive stats would indicate that he is not. And some analysts have pointed out he’s not quick which surprises me.

    Warriors need to trade Bogut if they hope to go far in the playoffs. Miami would tear his ass up. Yes, bring in Udoh and B. Wright, and have a rotation with O’Neal, we would be speaking about 60 plus wins and be watching the Warriors kick ass.

    Join modern basketball Hat. Your a smart guy. Stop settling for mediocrity and old school basketball inside basketball and supporting Warriors management as they still fail to get with the times. Stop nip-picking and start seeing the forest as well as the trees.

    The game is having guys who give you extra possessions, can shoot well, from the outside, slash to the hole, and defend inside. The Warriors only excel in one of the these crucial four areas.

    • Frank, I don’t know how much you’ve actually watched Brandan Wright play ball, so here’s a picture. Start with Chris Bosh and remove 35 pounds of muscle, 90% of Bosh’s mobility, 95% of his shooting range, 99% of his basketball smarts and 100% of his heart. The remaining pile of twigs is Brandan Wright. There’s no there there. Draymond Green would box him out to Mars, David Lee would abuse him on both ends of the floor, and Bogut would simply lay him out within seconds, no problem.

      Bashing Wright is fun and all, but I’m running out of insults. Use your eyes, Frank, not just your spreadsheet. Because if your numbers say Wright is a winner, your numbers have it wrong. Ditto Udoh.

      You may not understand this, but I like Udoh and Wright, in limited minutes. They can be effective as change-up guys, because both have such unique games. But neither has a complete enough game to be a big-minutes player. Which is why none of their coaches have ever played either very much.

      Or maybe ALL those coaches (Nelson, D’Antoni, Carlyle and a host of others) just aren’t very clever. You think that’s it?

    • you have yet to see this roster play, but if you need to exaggerate to make your points, feel free. the new team has the potential to increase its scoring in the paint and overall efficiency on offense simply by replacing jack’s minutes with iguodala. iguodala is nearly unsurpassed (only l.james converts a higher pct.) at finishing around the rim, and is more adept in open court, up tempo offense than jack. extra possessions will come from better perimeter d, and they’ve added iguodala and douglas to bring it. (bazemore and ne’ne’ potential auxiliaries). as for boards, speights and o’neal will probably pitch in as many as ezeli, biedrins, jefferson combined for, and iguodala is stronger than jack. despite the hype about playing barnes at the four, don’t be surprised if the new wing doesn’t surpass him in double digit rebounding games.

      they could obviously be hurt by relying on speights and o’neal to provide what landry and ezeli did, but still have roster and budget room for a reinforcement. the main obstacles to repeating last season’s modest success will be bogut’s health and availability, and the greatly altered competition in the west.

      • I’m hoping Speights and O’Neal might help reduce Bogut’s minutes, especially 4th Q, that his minutes are pushed only when match-ups against other big centers requires. I also hope they will move away from their desire for a Bogut centered offense.

        But push come to shove, as it often does for the Warriors, there may well be times when they can’t count on Bogut, O’Neal, or Ezeli (who may be out 9 months, so they said). Speights, at the very least, can stand in and hold his ground and score some points, something that can’t be said about Biedrins or the others.

        • the lacobites have consistently been excessive in their optimism re. bogut’s health and durability. they were lucky last season to get just enough from ezeli and lee before those two broke down physically. they were also quite conservative with acquisitions during the season, never addressing the absence of rush and three months plus of missing bogut. if injuries hit this season, they’ll have to reinforce the roster or resign themselves to the usual pretender stratum.

  63. Kirilenko to the the Nets for $3+ million a year? Is that right, after opting out of $10m? What are the odds Prokhorov has worked some behind the scenes reimbursement? At least a Volga and a dasha in Russia. Or maybe New Hampshire. Or a lucrative place in his business.

    • the compensation would have to be well-concealed, because Brk is already deep in the lux tax and the association must have an army of auditors. not impossible for a plutocrat of that magnitude. o.t.o.h., kirilenko possibly fell into the same barge that ellis did, opting out of a final year in search of a multi year contract.

      • Sounds really fishy to me too, but then AK47 did make the decision to play for CSKA Moscow when Prokhorov owned it and who is now the same owner of the Nets) – and ditching the NBA – so perhaps it’s not all about the big money for this player.

        http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/7/12/4516996/2013-nba-free-agency-rumors-news

        I’d read the Nets owner will have to pay $15 million in luxury taxes to pay AK47 his $3 million. This $15 million may also have been for over 2 years (I don’t remember the link).

      • Kirilenko wouldn’t be the first guy to accept a lower salary to join a winning, large-market team.

        Fame has $ potential (ref. Paris Hilton, Kim Kardashian and every other no-talent do-nothing you read about all the time).

        Kirilenko just set himself up for worldwide fame. Over the long haul it’s worth far more than an immediate salary.

  64. Hat: I said that the Warriors should have obtained Wright over Speights in a back-up role. Unless Speights plays like he did two years ago, it’s difficult to see him making a positive contribution on a consistent basis. . I see him as our third string center until Ezeli returns, and our fourth string PF, behind Lee, Green, and Barnes. Jackson might not see it that. way.

    What the Warriors do or do not do with their two TPE trading exemptions may well determine how far the Warriors go this year. The Warrior appear to be on a hold pattern and will notate any further trades in the immediate future.

    They still are lacking in their ability to get to the foul-line.

    This team is built to run. Whether Jackson will do that remains to be seen. If they are to run the Warriors should bring in a coach who knows how the team should run the break as Jackson has no clue. Kinda astonishing since he was a premier point guard.

    • Bogut and Ezeli can’t and won’t ever shoot well – Barnes, Green (college), Speights, and O’Neal can. That’s not inconsequential, particularly to closeout games.

      MJax will have the option of different big man looks and lineups he had with Landry/Lee. Speights and O’Neal have center size.

  65. Iguodala was supposedly closely considering Dallas… Cuban had a nice run. He probably needs to blow it up now.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/andre-iguodala-apparently-hour-away-becoming-member-dallas-172026235.html

  66. See my comment @ 69.

    Kirilenko just set himself up for worldwide speaking tours, parade grand masters and shopping mall openings through his golden years.

    There doesn’t need to be anything sneaky going on for K’s move to be a good business decision for him.

    • Oops. That’s @ 66.

    • can’t fault the oligarch Brk owner for not trying. on his formal media statement when the trade for Pierce and Garnett was confirmed, “the basketball gods have smiled on the Nets.”

  67. While opposing PG’s shot 49% against both Douglass and Jack this year,
    last year playing for the Knicks, opponents shot only 42% against Douglas. With the edition of Iggy, Douglass, and O’Neal, the Warriors defense has substantially improved, maybe to the tune of 4 less points per game. And with Jack and Landry being poor defenders, one can add on a few more points.

  68. Ellis to Dallas?

    • m.stein reports that the contract amount hasn’t been confirmed, but will probably be a minimum of 25 m. and as much as 30 m. for three years. this ends ellis’ quest for 4 years and 40 m., and he turned down a two year extension in Mil that combined for 3 yrs./36 m. with the inclusion of the final year on the mullin contract.

      Dal has three new guards, and if harris comes off the bench to play either spot, ellis will probably be the 2-guard again, defying boss felt’s preference/prediction. we’ll have to see what carlisle does with the three, and he might see things the boss’ way. have to grant Dal a spoiler’s chance to tussle for a bottom playoff seed, depending how they resolve their need for a center. iguodala was hours away from taking their offer, but myers’ phone-a-thon that resulted in UT taking the 24 m. in contracts (for one viable player, rush) got iguodala his first choice.

  69. geraldmcgrew

    Feltbot:

    If you did a ranking based on “best basketball player” of all players who were/are free agents this summer, where do you rank Monta?

    • Monta would certainly be my #1-most-dependent-on-position/coaching/system. He can be a horrible player on the wrong team, or a great one, imo, on the right one.

      I have opined that he could be a top 5 point guard in the league, so that gives you an idea of what I believe to be his upside.

  70. Monta to Mavericks, 3 yrs/$29m. Is anyone here laboring under the illusion that he wouldn’t opt out, or that he would take Milwaukee’s 3 yr./$36m extension offer now, if he had the chance to do it over? I don’t think anyone believes that. Which means he deserves some credit, like Iguodala, for trying to get himself to the right team, in order to win.

    Unfortunately, Monta did not get himself into the situation I was really hoping for, playing pg for a contender. He will be playing alongside Jose Calderon on the Mavs. That seems like a poor fit offensively, as the Mavs will want the ball in Calderon’s hands as much as possible, and Ellis is a poor floor spreader. On the other hand, Calderon is a great spot up shooter himself, which will improve Monta’s efficiency when he’s the point.

    On defense, I consider Monta one of the best defenders of point guards in the league, who rarely gets the opportunity to show it. Calderon is 6-3 205, and completely unable to stay in front of pgs, so we may see the Mavs cross-match frequently on defense. For Monta to truly be a great player, though, he should be paired with a 6-5″ stopper.

    The real pluses to this situation for Monta are these: He’s going to be playing for one of the best coaches in the league in Carlisle, who will know how to use him. Carlisle made JJ Barea the second MVP of that Mavs championship team, if you remember.

    Second, after a couple of seasons of abject humiliation, Mark Cuban is likely to come out with guns firing next season.

    • geraldmcgrew

      thx

      • Very happy for Monta…

        Had Dallas – kept OJ Mayo – THAT might have been a nice back court fit with Ellis as Mayo has size and can defend SGs and play both back courts positions okay.

        I don’t see Calderon/Ellis backcourt – defensively – working well at all. It’ll be a defensive disaster actually.

  71. A look at Monta on the Mavs:

    http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/61357/monta-ellis-on-a-stat-geeks-team

    The second point, that creating good looks for teammates is hugely valuable, is something I have been arguing re Monta for some time.

    Even Monta’s misses are frequently more valuable than most players, coming as they do after drawing 3 defenders to his drive, and leaving the rim unprotected against putbacks. Something that is NEVER factored into his shooting % by the stat geeks.

    I would guess that Monta was directly responsible for a third of Larry Sanders points last season by assist. And indirectly responsible for another third by creating easy putback dunks.

    • Context and situation are so important in evaluating value, in basketball and life. This was a very good article on that. I’ve been down on Monta for the past few years, but recognize how valuable he and other players of his ilk become when buckets are hard to get.

      I’m excited to see how it works out in Dallas. Carlisle and Dirk will be good in bringing out the positives in Monta’s game. If Cuban is seeing what you’re seeing, I imagine him making a play for Wesley Mathews for D and spacing.

  72. It looks like the Mavs just pulled their offer for Devin Harris, despite the fact that their #18 pick, pg Shane Larkin, just broke his ankle.

    That’s a great sign for Monta playing the point. It looks like Carlisle gets it immediately. I wonder if they will convince him to be the 6th man? Perhaps the ideal role for him.

    • A lineup featuring Ellis (PG), Mayo (Combo G), Iguodala (SF), Marion (SF/PF), and Dirk (PF) – was entirely possible.

      C Andrew Bynum might have signed up for this lineup. C Dalembert likely.

      Going after Howard and losing – set the franchise back…

      Signing Calderon for that kind of money at his age with his defense – sets franchises back.

      Blow it up.

  73. I like the Monta signing for Dallas, because Monta. But this has been a miserable three seasons for the Mavs since winning the championship.

    If the recent trend continues, I may be forced to concede that Joe Lacob is a better GM than Mark Cuban.

    • Felt, maybe the coolest thing about Monta going to Dallas is that it will team up two of Don Nelson’s “freaks,” Dirk and Monta. I think Nelson drafted both because he saw how “different” both of them were. Both cause unusual problems for opponents.

      Assuming the Dallas FO assembles a competent supporting cast this summer, they’re going to present a very difficult matchup for everyone. Whether or not they win a lot, it’s going to be very fun to watch.

      • Actually Monta was drafted out of high school by Mullin before Nellie was re-hired. And I’m pretty sure Nellie wouldn’t have drafted him. Doesn’t fit his M.O.

        • Thanks for the info. I stand corrected.

          My main point stands, though. Monta and Dirk are both unique, disruptive players. Not every coach could use them to good advantage, but Carlyle could.

          • That I agree with. And one thing for certain, Monta will be playing with a spread floor. His efficiency + assists could shock people this year.

    • if myers didn’t get UT to buy in to the all out lottery campaign this season, iguodala was going to Dal. the UT deal closed when iguodala and his agent were prepared to go with Dal in a matter of hours. if lacob had his way he’d be stuck paying das übermensch his 22 m. x four years. howard saved both cuban and lacob from themselves, but cuban at least has shown he’s willing to risk his own money on the payroll and lux tax.

      with cuban and carlisle ellis has a chance to reach the finals before either of his former teams. and it’s a quick ride to his home in Memphis. his fans don’t need to worry how he’ll take care of his family.

    • Interesting that he avoided the question that was asked him though.

      • He did say Barnes is getting bigger. Don’t be surprised if Harrison is getting taller, too. That can happen at 20 or 21 years old. It is also why I think he seemed a step slow and a little awkward at times last season.

    • of course the minority partner/saint hoops medallion will say barnes *can* become an all star, could be true for a number of young, healthy starting forwards. lee is a two time all star, right ?

      think about what he says about having smart players, and how iguodala commented about his attraction to the team for having smart players like curry, bogut, lee. west still fulfilled his obligations and attended the recruiting session for das übermensch. and probably rationalized it with phrases including ‘size’ and ‘rebounding’. fortunately the team is 0 for 2 in the size + rebounding, big contract burden, limited smarts lottery with d.jordan and howard.

      • Jerry West – in describing Barnes’ potential – had me at “my goodness” and “remarkable.” Lol!

        Before I was on the fence on whether or not to pair Barnes with Lee – to acquire a two-way PF – say, an L. Aldridge.

        Now? I’ll wait on Barnes another year or two. If Barnes bulks up enough to actually defend PFs at a reasonable level, he could be an amazing mismatch PF. Our “Aldridge” could already be on our roster.

  74. If so, then let’s how Barnes plays this year. I can’t see him being an all-star without increasing his OR’s, steals, and assists, and ball handling skills. If he fails to do so, consideration should be given to trading him for a player and a pick in the first round of next year’s draft.

    • the SF beisbol fans caught on to stuffing the ballots in all star voting, and they share some of the same demographic with the woeyr fans, owning multiple computers and different e-mail accounts. did barnes study any chinese in school — he can shill to that market and get votes there. his competition could also get injured and open a spot on the team. but won’t he be considered a forward ? will iguodala be considered a forward on the ballot ? would barnes deserve to go over kawhi leonard ? he doesn’t yet produce as consistently as chandler parsons.

      • Jerry West – isn’t an All-Star ballot stuffer from China or the SF Giants. He’s one of the most astute judge of basketball talent there is in NBA.

        And Playoff Barnes changes the game.

        Kawhi Leonard and Chandler Parsons – both improved in their second season in the NBA. Parsons shot 50% from the free throw line his rookie season.

        In fairness to rookie Harrison Barnes – he gets to play with Team USA and will have the opportunity to improve his game this summer.

        In Jerry West I Trust.

  75. But for minor adjustments, it looks like we’re done, and Lacob has said as much. To be critical, I suppose we could ask what might have happened had Lacob bypassed the Howard chase and explored the other options sooner. But Lacob had to get Howard out of his system, and it’s not at all clear what players were possible when in the complex whirlwind of negotiations. You had to be there, I’m sure.

    My first regret is that we didn’t get an experienced point guard to spell Curry and back him up if he goes down, one they might have developed and kept for several years, but there may not have been good options.

    My second is that they didn’t get a healthy midrange center for backup, but that might not have been possible.

    So really, still being critical, there are only minor debates between Speights and Hickson, between Douglas and the other compromise options at PG. Igoudala, with the right players around him and the right system, is a net plus. I still regret they didn’t keep Nate at minimum pay, even if only as a second backup. If O’Neal can play a full season, however, we scored big time at center.

    And since Douglas and O’Neal got one year contracts, these questions will have to be answered next year—or this year in trades, later in the season, as they can spend around $5m now without going into tax, or up to $9m if they want to pull the trigger and pay some.

    In fact Ezeli will be the only center they’ll have next year. Adding another will be especially tough. I’m hoping they find an acceptable and affordable one yet (Asik would have been ideal), that they’ll stop trying to build the team around a dominant center. I’m guessing they’ll wait to see how Bogut responds this season before they look elsewhere. Lacob has to get Bogut out of his system as well. I fear, however, we’ll only get so so playing time and performance from him this year as was the case last, largely due to health, leaving signing him again a too risky gamble.

    If they decide not to keep him, however, they’ll have a lot of bucks to play with.

    There may well be better options at PG, however, even mid season. And if they do make a run for the playoffs, quite thinkable, they’ll be able to add another player down the stretch and will know which one they’ll need.

    It may be hard to reduce Curry’s minutes. When he does rest, the second unit will be sketchy. But his workload will be reduced. He will have more help in defense on the perimeter, and maybe more places to be hidden, should that become necessary. He’ll also have more players to pass to on offense, who can facilitate, thus won’t get stuck as much in double teams in half court sets, where he is weakest.

    The team has more size across the roster, and more scorers, and more options in scoring all over the court, more players who can shoot and drive. I think, with this club, Speights might surprise us close to the hoop.

    And they have backups at every position of some sort at every position. If worse comes to worse, they can put some kind of team on the floor competitive enough should several players need a rest or go down.

    The team now has more options and room to grow. I’m not sure Lacob could have done better.

    • @rgg – For years and present – I am a huge Jarrett Jack fan as a backup PG. The Dorrell Wright for Jack transaction? Awesome – I immediately saw the genius of the move.

      And I wanted the W’s to re-sign Jarrett Jack for under $7 million for 3 years.

      However in acquiring a game-changing player like Iguodala? Bye bye Jack/Landry – thanks for the memories. I get it. Starters first, bench second.

      Objectively assessing Jarrett Jack’s defense which although flexible to guard SGs due to his size – along with his super offense – nets out a player that’s always been a very good backup but a borderline NBA starter. Good offense, below average defense.

      Should the W’s receive the Sacramento Kings version of Toney Douglas – who shot decently IMO – together with that disruptive, ball-hawking, aggressive defense – will be a great value. Decent offense, above average defense. I thought Bazemore could be this kind of player.

      I prefer Toney Douglas at $1.6 million than Jarrett Jack at $6 million. And use that money savings on other ways to impact the roster.

    • “…Lacob had to get Howard out of his system…”

      I wonder if Howard was really in Lacob’s plans.

      http://bluemanhoop.com/2013/07/11/golden-state-warriors-never-called-the-los-angeles-lakers-about-dwight-howard/

      The Ws may or may not have signed Howard if he said yes, but the fact that the Ws never even contacted the Lakers suggests they never believed they had the slightest possibility of getting him.

      The Dwight chase was an excellent PR event. The Ws didn’t need to sign him to get plusses from it. It cost nothing and said nice things about the Ws. That being the case, ya gotta wonder if they were ever actually serious about it.

      • Of course the W’s were serious about it… The W’s were serious enough to dump $24 million in salary so that they could sign Dwight Howard outright – no sign and trade.

        In addition, the W’s were ready to dump Andrew Bogut – onto the Jazz as well. And still would have been able to acquire Andre Iguodala. I’m sure a sign and trade would have had to be worked out somewhere (Lakers or Denver).

        Curry
        Thompson
        Iguodala
        Lee
        Howard

        This is probably what Lacob wanted – this lineup on paper would be the #1 team in the Western Conference.

        • PB, I love ya guy, but the Ws making an all-out effort to get Howard was never an “of course” kinda deal. If Howard had shown any interest, Myers would have undoubtedly followed through with some sort of offer, but not necessarily something Howard wanted. Howard is completely awesome in some ways, and completely destructive to a team in other ways. Everyone knows that.

          Whatever. Since Howard wasn’t interested in the Ws, it’s kind of a moot point.

          Myers had Iggy on the line at the same time, and I think Iggy will try help the team more than Howard would try to help the team.

          Myers done good.

          • Hat – Love you too!

            Jerry West, Myers, and Lacob – and who knows who else – flew down to LA to meet Dwight Howard and his people. This REALLY happened. Fact. I’m certain Howard showed his true intentions at this meeting – and the W’s went onto Plan B.

            Freeing up $24 million in cap space (Jefferson, Biedrins, and Rush) prior to this meeting – was the W’s way of saying, “We want you Dwight Howard. And we won’t need Laker cooperation in a sign and trade.”

            Lacob and Myers – are now downplaying any interest they ever had in pursuing Dwight Howard – because the W’s are now in damage control. I’m sure you know a lot about damage control. Bogut, Barnes, Lee, etc. – surely don’t get warm fuzzy W’s feelings when the rumors were floating around, I’m sure.

            To sign Iguodala – the W’s didn’t need to dump $24 million in salary.

            That was Dwight Howard money.

            And Dumping the unneeded Andrew Bogut to Utah – would have freed cap space to spend on something else.

  76. Let us wish the best for Rush, and maybe wish him our condolences. West was quite high on him. But he should get heavy playing time next year, and if he does well, will be attractive to other teams at a good contract.

    • Agreed – Rush will be better off with more playing time in Utah. With Iguodala, Barnes, and Klay ahead of him on the depth chart – no minutes in Golden State for the sweet-shooting wing player…

  77. Myers – on BOGUT/ELLIS Trade follow-up.

    I’m listening to Bob Myers on the radio discussing how the W’s got Ezeli for the additional year of Jefferson’s deal – then dumped Jefferson’s last year of his deal to Utah for a W’s first rounder… and that cap space used to acquire Andre Iguodala!!! Lol!

    http://cdn.stationcaster.com/stations/knbr/media/mpeg/Golden_State_Warriors_GM__Bob_Myers-1373646399.mp3

    Let’s review:

    W’s = Bogut + Ezeli + Barnes (tank) – W’s 2014 first rounder + Iguodala

    BUCKS = 2 years Ellis + Ellis opt out cap space used to sign OJ Mayo, Ekpe Udoh, and Kwame’s cap space used to re-sign E. Ilyasova.

    In Jerry West I Trust.

    • Yeah, it all worked out and that’s great, but who could have guessed that Utah would choose to self-immolate 4 months before the season even started? I’m having a hard time believing that anyone in the Ws front office could plan for something like that.

      Anyone here familiar with the “The Producers”? The story line is Utah’s strategy for the 2013-2014 season.

      • Of course we got an incredible break, with Utah not the musical, and let us mark this date in Warrior history. I’m still incredulous.

        I’m curious how this happened. Late one night several days ago, did the Utah FO just decide aw hell, let’s tear the team apart. Who’s got $2om of expiring contracts?

        Petey—I’m too lazy to listen to the Myers interview. Does he explain?

        I suppose it makes a kind of sense—they got 3/5 of a team to stand in for a season, a tall defensive center and two players who can play 2-4. But just imagine what it will be like in the stands their first home game when Biedrins attempts a free throw.

        This is forever behind us:

        • Myers explained that Jefferson’s expiring deal of $11 million was a first rounder – and Biedrins’ and Rush’s expirings of $13 million cost another first rounder. Paying $15 million in luxury tax for Jack/Landry – and not having their best player Curry not have the ball in his hands – didn’t make sense.

          Utah letting Al Jefferson and Paul Milsap go – to play Favors and Kantor – they could take on salary for picks.

  78. Utah is perpetrating a farce upon its fans.

    The team is Stockton/Malone, not “Somewhat Tall Dead Meat.”

    I wonder if Jerry Sloan signed on with the Jazz before or after this travesty.

      • Damn. I hate reading horseshit like that. What’s the world coming to, dagnabbit?

        The author of that article can be only one of two things: a blithering fool or a liar. If he’s the latter, I assume he’s paid well enough to overcome the embarrassment. Like our Kawakami.

    • too early to tell if UT made the best choices for its re-build. we should know very well from the cohan era that winning 30-40 games with little budget flexibility gets you nowhere. they had no assurance that investing in another four year contract for an expensive vet like millsap or comparable player would get them over the .500 hump, and in the west it’s uncertain that 42-45 wins is enough. young players in their first contract have to be evaluated, and those vets can stand in the way of that.

      young players can be developed either to keep or for trade assets, as SA did with g.hill. UT has extra draft picks to trade now, and possible expiring contracts on the three guys they ingested from the lacobites. it’s better to be bad than mediocre. cuban couldn’t stomach putting a bad team on the court, and he’s left himself less maneuvering room than what UT has. granted, Dal has an outside chance for a bottom playoff seed, but they’re not in a small-middle market like UT, either. Mil’s niche seems similar to UT’s, and they look stuck on that old roller coaster in limbo.

      • Looks like they are in full tank mode in Utah. They let their vets sign elsewhere – and used the cap space to pick up draft picks for guys like Andris Biedrins – one of the worst players in the NBA – who will help them tank. Who knows – perhaps they can parlay these expirings into even more draft picks at the trade deadline – and take on some more salary! Lol!

        • “Full tank” indeed. The most blatantly obvious, coldly premeditated tank job in the history of the NBA. Gosh, the first games are 4 months away and the Jazz front office is already selecting their 2014 draft picks.

          Hey, Jazz guys! Make it work! Here are a few hints from the Warriors ca. 2011-12:

          – Cultivate mysterious injuries. No one has ever torn a pec playing basketball until Kwame did it for the Ws. Abdominals? The Ws have been all over that, but it’s a goodie. Or get creative. There must be a few dozen other body parts just begging for freak injuries.

          – Play stupid. If you have lots of big guys, play small. If you have only small guys, heck, do I even need to say it? Slow down. You can’t risk scoring. Find a way.

          – Changing coaches is always good for -20 wins or so. Think real hard about it. Do it often. Heck, go for the record. You can do it, Utah! Remember, you’re shameless! A few years from now no one will even remember getting ripped off, probably!

          – If all that is not enough, hire a coach from Mars (yeah, the Ws have done that, many times, but it is a proven path to non-success).

          – Antagonize fans, turn your home court into a hostile environment. It must be good for 5-10 losses at least.

          Whatever. Just don’t turn into copycat criminals. I know, it’s tough, the Ws have been all over this terrain, it’s hard to come up with new ways to lose.

          But it’s all worthwhile. Look at those W now. Shining, smiling, happy. Devoutish. Profitable-ish.

          You will be happy again someday, Utah. Go for it. Screw it up bigtime. You have what it takes. You have the Warriors roadmap and all their worst players. Nothing more is needed. You can do it. Bless you, my friends. You are on the path.

          • @Hat – I remember in the 80’s when the W’s weren’t very smart on tanking and talent assessment in the “right” seasons – and lost out on some great players. Then the NBA commissioner instituted the “draft lottery” BECAUSE teams were tanking. It’s a part of the game – and the NBA hasn’t effectively prevented this from happening. It’s part of the NBA game.

  79. Virtually the entire Warriors offense, except for Bazemore, looked terrible in their first summer league game. Want to see more of Belmont’s Clark. Green looked terrible. Who is going to be D.Lee’s back-up? O’Neal, Barnes?

    Warriors going to have difficult time being a top six team in the West, even if healthy, without the roster improving.

    Sac,in their game looked much more organized,McLemore couldn’t hit the side of a barn. McCollum looks like a potentially good PG.

    • Frank, you’re right, that was an awful show. I think Green will survive that display, but I’m concerned that Bazemoring might become a thing of the past. Kent needs to step up.

      • green’s nine shot attempts still resulted in fifteen points combined with the fouls he drew. six turnovers and six fouls in 33 min. looks bad, but 1.67 pts. per shot attempt is more efficient than what most gunners see. his competition for the back up 4, speights, got 1.13 pts. per shot attempt last season, very pedestrian, and typical of a mid range jump shooter like him.

        green will be on the roster, in any event. machado doesn’t have a place assured, and guards who can’t score at all often get cut.

    • over on the true hoop blog (espn.com) they’ve given grades for players in the LV games on Sat (“the Strip Day 2″) and bazemore got an A- mainly for his defense. green doesn’t get 14 free throws (and his great scoring efficiency despite shooting 1-9 in his field goals) without going to the rim aggressively. he’s also lost weight and gained strength. he’ll be a better match up defensively against many 4’s than the slower speights, and handles the ball better than the anointed future all star barnes. green could make the preacher actually use a nine or ten player rotation.

  80. Bazemore has improved his foul shooting which is a sign he has improved his shooting. And, at times , plays phenomenal defense. But, he commits lazy fouls, and his feet don’t move hardly at all at times. On a lot of possessions he looks downright lazy. He has no handles and cannot be a distributor. He should never play PG. I guess SG is his position but still far away from prime time.
    Merchado should have been cut yesterday. Just a filler for summer league.
    I suspect green is going to be wildly inconsistent.a, such, he’s mot the answer. as a PF back-up, What was his percentage shooting threes today?
    We need someone other than Barnes to backup Lee. O’Neal is the only one I trust and he’s needed to play center.

    We still need a back-up SG unless Barnes plays that position. That’s wher I’d play even though his handles are bad.

    The Warriors are still not a balanced team and until Myers
    Makes some more moves especially in the front court they are not going to be a contender. Getting rid of Biedrens and Jefferson were fabulous, b
    But more players are needed.

    One could not tell if there was good defensive coaching by Ean or whether Washington just sucked. What is clear is that the offense sucked ad the team has few decent players. The summer league may show the caliber of coaching we’ll see this season. Sactown’s coaching was excellent.

    • you’ve actually given a good rationale for having thompson take the sixth man role. he can back up both wing positions, and barnes can’t. thompson is also much more accustomed to playing without curry on the court.

      no worries, though, back up wings might be the easiest position to fill at reasonable cost. usually under the job description, perimeter d and make some 3’s, good ball handlers a bit harder to find. they might feel they can get by with curry, iguodala, thompson, and douglas as guard/wing ball handlers, depending on the learning curve on ne’ne’.

  81. Moto: Will be interesting to see who among Barnes, Iggy, and Thompson, Jackson decides to bring off the bench. Felty, who would you take out of the starting line-up?

  82. One has to wonder whether Myers could have moved both Jefferson and Biedrins in prior years but for his refusal to include no.1 picks in the trade?

    • bloodsweatndonuts

      Because of the Marcus Williams trade, they had no certainty as to whether or not they even had a first round pick year-to-year because it was always conditional. Because a team cannot not have a first round draft pick in consecutive years, it would have been difficult to trade a first rounder prior to 2015.

      The big gain from buying into the end of the first round this year was the ability to trade the 2014 pick. If they hadn’t then they could only have offered the 2015 and 2017 first round picks instead of 2014 & 2016 which I imagine would have been less appealing to Utah.

      • for the third time, the minute that the 2013 draft had been completed, they could trade the 2014 first round pick, regardless of whether they bought their own pick in the ’13 draft. the Stepien rule applies to consecutive future first round picks, which of course doesn’t include completed drafts. they are now barred from trading the 2015 first round pick and the 2016 one as well. once the 2014 draft is completed, the ’15 draft pick can be traded.

    • Earlier on in the old CBA, Kwame’s expiring netted Pau Gasol – and conspiracy theories abounded. Early on in this CBA – the W’s paid first and second rounders to dump expirings. Utah obviously is way under the cap and will need to keep these players for the season – or trade them again at the deadline for assets to teams wanting to position themselves for 2014 Free Agents. I’d read a blog about how Cleveland was dreaming of landing W’s assets – for taking on our expirings. Lol!

      The point? The W’s chose to win now. And not wait until the trade deadline. And tried to pursue Dwight Howard AND Andre Iguodala. Lost out on Dwight.

      And the W’s just got BETTER…

      Adding in a well-fitting piece in their puzzle – All-Star Iguodala – and giving up 2 first rounders, 3 expirings, and Jack/Landry.

      And to be honest with you? The W’s were smarter in not overpaying borderline starters/role players. Good teams ALWAYS regret that decision later…

      Think Mike Miller’s $6.2 million contract for the Heat – a contract they later wished they didn’t offer. I’m positive – Anthony Morrow or Reggie Miller can shoot as well has Miller and defend as bad as Miller for 1/6 the money IMO.

    • the value of a first round pick in the 2014 draft only became clear over the last two seasons. meanwhile, the woeyrs were prevented from the Stepien rule from trading it, as soon as they went full force for keeping their lottery pick in the ’12 draft and deferred payment of the m.williams ransom. until that debt was paid, they were essentially in limbo as far as trading future first round picks. the other variable of course was what roster strategy UT or other competitors were taking with free agents (like UT’s millsap, jefferson) or potential free agents exercising player options (landry, iguodala, ellis among those), or picking up draft picks.

  83. geraldmcgrew

    FB @76:

    “For Monta to be a truly great player, though, he should be paired with a 6-5″ stopper.”

    How well could Wayne Ellington play that role?

  84. Any interest in taking a flier on Seth Curry as 14th or 15th roster spot?

    I know one thing – Dell Curry was one of the best shooters I’d ever seen play. His son Stephen is even better.

    And Seth Curry can shoot the lights out. Can he do anything else?

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1688826-seth-currys-shooting-prowess-makes-him-a-lock-to-land-on-an-nba-roster

  85. Bazemore has the potential to be better than Thompson. As he has the athleticism that Thompson lacks. As he has the quckness to make many steals, deflect passes, blocked shots, and garner OR’s that Thompson can only dream about. But he also may make more turnovers until he gets smarter and gains more experience. The Warriors can help reduced his turnovers by taking the ball out of his hands if he proves inept at playing PG. while i don’t see him as a PG, the warriors have obviously worked hard so far this summer to develop him into one. He could be a K. Leonard in the making.

    It’s critical that he demonstrate this year that he can hang with Thompson shooting from the perimeter and can be successful attacking the basket.

    • Frank, you’re over-thinking things. Bazemore does not have the shooting potential or the mental toughness that Thompson has. I like Bazemore as a defender, but he is not even close to Thompson as a scorer.

  86. I don’t think it makes sense to get into first unit-second unit as this year’s team will most likely have rotating players going in and out of the line-ip, and who plays where are not defined as yet. Nevertheless this is the minute distribution based on the players I hope will be the most productive and does’t take into account new players joining the roster.

    O’Neal 25
    Bogut 20
    D.lee 35
    Iggy 33
    Curry 35
    Douglas 13
    Thompson 28
    Barnes 25
    Bazemore 20
    Green 11
    Speights 10

    • I rarely contribute, although I enjoy reading. But I have to point this out.
      There are only 240 player-minutes available (5 players x 48 minutes).
      You have a string of digits that add up up to 250 something.

      It weakens the “scientific” impact of your table.

      And you, the big stats guy. Tsk tsk.

      • Just cut down Jermaine O’Neal’s minutes. He is a 10-15 minute player at best at this stage in his career.

  87. PB—

    Seth just isn’t that big and has little experience at point. He should be smart, however.

    Anybody know anything about Kevin Murphy, the guy we got from Utah?

    He does have size — 6’6″ and apparently can score:

    “Perhaps the most impressive individual performer over the course of the PIT, particularly from a long-term perspective, Kevin Murphy’s size (he measured 6-6 barefoot) and ability to score in a variety of ways from all over the court stood out all week long. Shooting the ball with range both off the catch and off the dribble, the Tennessee Tech product was consistently able to create separation with his dribble in one-on-one situations, knock down his spot-up jump shots, and utilize his smooth shooting mechanics to convert a number of contested shots in impressive fashion.”

    From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz2Z4paNjGN
    http://www.draftexpress.com

    But apparently he has a lot to learn. Utah didn’t give him much playing time at all, but sent him down to d-league. And he didn’t get many minutes last night. I don’t know if he’ll be showcased or not.

  88. After it was determined in the 2012 draft the the Warriors were going to have a first round pick couldn’t the Warriors have traded that pick along with Biedrens for a TPE and a player., or a lower draft pick? I’m notch saying the Warriors should have done so.

    • rest assured, with two years and 18 m. still left on biedrins’ deal last summer, the incentive any team taking him would demand wouldn’t even get that deal past the fantasy stage. after the coin flip assured the woeyrs they possessed the pick (eventually used for barnes), ‘experts’ on the blogs were looking at trading down and getting considerations or an extra pick, a variation of what they executed for cash savings this year with the pick they purchased and traded down to take NN.

  89. Jerry West SL interview. An impressive lineup of Curry, Klay, Iguodala, Barnes, and Bogut lineup – “will compete with any team in the league.”

    https://soundcloud.com/warriors/jerry-west-with-bob-fitzgerald

  90. returning to the titular subject of this post, myers’ connections with his former colleagues in the milieu of sports agents might not extend to the fat portfolio of D.Falk. e.brand, probably more suited to the woeyrs than either o’neal or speights , ended up signing with Atl for slightly more than speights per year, but with a team friendly single season contract. of course, the left coast or oaktown doesn’t suit everyone (landry apparently likes calif), and we’re ignorant if the team even inquired about brand.

    • moto, you’re probably right that the Myers-as-former-agent connection is helpful, but it doesn’t have to be the main reason for the Ws to sign Speights over Brand.

      Neither is super-athletic, but Speights is slightly taller. Speights is 25, Brand 34. Speights may still have potential to improve his fitness and skills, Brand is what he is.

      There’s also the question of availability. Brand’s last team was Dallas. Since losing the DHoward sweepstakes, Dallas might have decided to try to re-sign Brand. The Ws really could not afford to gamble on Brand’s availability. They had to be sure to sign a backup for Lee.

      • you’re probably right that they preferred pursuing the ‘sure thing’ (for signing purposes and timing) w. speights. but that might have been influenced by brand’s expressed preferences, he had no obligation to Dal as an unrestricted free agent. as for speights’ age advantage, better potential usw., he has to prove it. the main edge he has over brand (who clearly possesses superior skills and smarts on both ends of the court), he could probably go 30 min.+ per game if bogut or lee go on the disabled list. we don’t even know if speights can adapt to an open court, fast tempo offense.

        • I thought for sure Dallas would re-sign Brand… And Brandan Wright… And PG Harris…

        • Have you guys seen Brand play the past several years? Slower than molasses and unable to score against anyone bigger than him. He WAS a nice NBA player. Now he’s basically scrap heap, IMO.

  91. It will be interesting to if Nedovic was a better pick at 30, than Sacramento’s pick of McCollub at 36.

    • for that matter the purchased pick could have been spent on jean-charles, a young french forward picked by SA who will probably play another season or two overseas. SA also considered using its second round pick on southerland, now on the GS ‘vegas roster, but the player told them he wouldn’t consider playing overseas if he was drafted.

      NN has a guaranteed deal, which won’t be the case for most second round picks. before he gets compared to rookies on other team, we have to see how he measures up against the players struggling to get a roster spot or with non guaranteed deals like bazemore, machado, or the shooting savant clark, or if any of them can surpass douglas.

  92. Mike Miller and Linas Kleiza were also amnestied this week, but neither fills a Ws need and both have obvious issues. But:

    Marcus Camby?

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba–raptors-to-buy-out-marcus-camby-s-contract-023120081.html

    Drew Gooden?

    http://sircharlesincharge.com/2013/07/16/bucks-use-the-amnesty-provision-on-drew-gooden/

    Even if Bogut is fully healed up (a ginormous Q), the weakest part of the Ws lineup is still the front line. If Bogut’s minutes go to zero, O’Neal, Speights and Lee are going to be covering 2 positions with 3 players. (For those of you who want to pencil in Green and Barnes at the 4, I can only say this: The topic we’re discussing is bigs, not smalls-playing-bigs.)

    Camby is 38 and certainly past his use-by date, but still possibly a contributor. The Ws wouldn’t need him to be the monstrous presence of his past glory, they’d only need him to be OK. Depending on his injury picture and overall fitness, that’s within the realm of possibility.

    Gooden is only 31. Last year his PER went to 7.7 (hey, it was the Bucks), but the year before it was 18.8, just short of Lee’s career 19.2 and better than Speights @ 18.2.

    Any thoughts?

    • warriorsablaze

      I don’t see these players filling a need. We’re talking about 10-11-12th men here… better to get a young kid with upside to develop.

      Whether you like it or not, Green and Barnes are going to get some burn at the 4. Ezili is going to be back for probably half the season and Bogut is (hopefully) gonna be good for at least 50 games. I don’t think adding any more broken down vets is useful.

      • they can’t be sure what ezeli can bring until mid season, and if he’s made great progress, working out with the team at that point, it’s the equivalent of adding a rotation player. o.t.o.h., any delay in his recovery and rehab means he can’t even do the extensive running and conditioning he’d need to put in. and we can only expect the same awkward , turnover inducing player on offense when he resumes playing because he’s lost the equivalent of a season in his hoops education.

      • With their personnel/salary moves the Ws have have made an honest ($$$) commitment to winning this next season, not down the road someday maybe.

        So if an available player could make the difference between winning and losing next season, would it not behoove the Warriors to bring him aboard?

        Camby used to be a difference-maker. I don’t think Gooden has distinguished himself that way, but his numbers say he has the potential to be better than Speights.

        Re Green and Barnes, I don’t have any particular bias. I LIKE over-achievers (my lonely defense of Monta is proof of that), but in the game of basketball, height does make a difference. Green and Barnes are effective sometimes because their games are different enough to give them an edge over taller, often slower players. But more often a competent conventional big has some advantages over them. Besides, adding another competent big does not mean Green and Barnes won’t play, it only means the coach will have more options. That could be very, very important if/when some players get hurt.

    • we don’t know what myers’ plan is for the budget between now and the mid season trading deadline. he might prefer to keep the flexibility he still has to keep the option of adding a solid rotation player for the playoff run. camby has a year guaranteed remaining on his contract. he’s negotiating with Tor to get traded to a team of his preference. gooden could go for a guaranteed vet minimum, depending on how many teams want him, with the balance of his contract guaranteed by Mil. he does have a home connection with the bay area, but his physical condition is just as big a factor as camby’s — sometimes when those big bodies that have gone through lots of pounding break down, they partially recover and break down again. gooden’s style depended more on banging around than camby’s, and he’s also older than bogut, who also relies on force rather than finesse.

      the guy who could keep myers’ options wide open was on the roster last spring and is in erman’s rotation now in ‘vegas, d.jones. he’s now with his ninth (or tenth, it’s a long list) n.b.a. team. gooden might want to come to oaktown, and he’d be cheap, but not as cheap as jones.

    • Camby has drawn suitors elsewhere and may not be as cheap as the FO might like. I’m guessing they’re saving their bucks for a midseason deal, should it open up. But there don’t seem to be any prospects in Vegas to fill that role.

      • has gooden completely passed through the waiver process that applies to amnestied contracts ? teams under the salary cap can bid on him in a blind auction, and if none are interested he gets unrestricted free agent status.

  93. Interesting replies. Thanks!

    Planning often involves a lot of guessing. Bridge builders don’t KNOW they’re going to get good bolts, they assume they will. Farmers don’t KNOW what the growing season will be like, they can only guess it won’t be different enough to kill their crops.

    NBA teams don’t KNOW some key players won’t get injured. In fact, the odds tell them that some will get hurt. So good management doesn’t just hope for the best, they build in options, especially for high-risk players. The Ws have a few players who have to be considered high-risk. One of them is their biggest big. The next highest-risk is their team leader. 3rd is O’Neal, the backup C. 4th is David Lee.

    Given the odds, the team has to assume that at least one of those guys – if not more – is going to get hurt next season. With enough quality backups, the team could still be successful. Without enough backup, they won’t.

    If the team is going to commit ($$$) to winning, for their own sake I’d like to see them have Plan Bs in place for every player. They’re more likely to win.

    • It’s hard to picture how the Ws could get Aldridge. The only realistic trade possibility is Lee (or Lee + Barnes), and Lee’s health history, contract, and reputation for defense work against him.

      There’s a big problem with Aldridge too. Under the limits set by today’s CBA, he’s very pricey. I don’t see the Ws taking on another big long term contract this summer. One of the best reasons for the Ws to trade Lee would be to reduce their financial commitments, not increase it.

      • The W’s could take the next step up in improving the roster by trading Lee (plus assets) for Aldridge. Aldridge is a much better defender than Lee. Offensively, Aldridge and Lee are both good players.

        Aldridge wants out of Portland. Per rumors, Aldridge for Lee straight up didn’t work earlier in the summer.

        Personally, I wouldn’t include Barnes either – as he’s not a throw-in player and likely has more value in trade. But assets like Ezeli (injured), Green, Nedovic? I’d include them.

        David Lee’s contract is very similar to Aldridge’s contract dollar-wise – and Aldridge’s deal is even 1 year shorter than Lee’s – so the W’s won’t be taking on a big additional salary NET as long as David Lee is included in a deal. And the W’s now have a little breathing room under the luxury tax now with the Utah tank trade.

        • Agree with everything you say, PB. An even-up swap would work for the Ws financially.

          I still don’t see it happening, for all the reasons mentioned above.

  94. Here’s the list of still available free agents. Can sort by position.

    http://www.cbssports.com/nba/transactions/free-agents?&_1:col_1=2

    • Keyon Dooling.
      Nate Robinson.
      Derek Fisher.
      Beno Udrih.

      Inexpensive veteran PGs, for insurance.

      Dooling is a fine shooter.

      Fisher’s D has always been a joke, but he’s fired as many game-winners as anyone in the league. Small and very slow, but tough-minded, competent and consistent.

      What can you say about Nate? Last year he won games for the Ws. This year he kept the Bulls alive in the playoffs, but with the return of Rose they’re letting him go. Inconsistent O, poor D, not a floor general, but when he’s hot he’s hot.

      Never been a big fan of Udrih’s, but he knows his way around a court. Good floor general, good midrange shot, adequate 3-pt shot.

      • Nate Robinson – sign him up! Love his athleticism. With Mark Jackson/David Lee – and regular minutes in the rotation, I think Nate Robinson will fit in here.

        Keyon Dooling – if my memory serves me right – plays a lot like Toney Douglas. Ball-hawking PG defensively – questionable shooter/creator.

      • if ian clark holds his own against n.b.a. vets in training camp (should he get invited — both Mia and GS will likely invite him) and pre-season games, he’d be a good investment with the thirteenth roster spot. he’s showed his phenomenal college shooting (mid-.400s in 3’s, over .600 in 2’s) wasn’t a fluke in the ‘vegas games. plays d well enough to get defensive player of the year for two different college teams. last year’s reserves, other than jack and landry, had problems scoring points. you don’t really want to see speights with his paltry 1.16 points per shot attempt become the designated shooter.

        undrafted free agents get the lowest minimum contracts, non guaranteed. clark could surpass most second round picks, a resource the woeyrs didn’t have this draft and have traded away for several future drafts.

        • Intriguing argument… I’ll have to look into this player. Amazing he wasn’t even drafted. I mean a potent shooter who can defend is a diamond in the rough. Steve Kerr – a potent shooter, couldn’t defend at all and still had a decent NBA career…

  95. el cubano came out and declared that his team is better without having ‘maxed out’ to sign howard. sounds very pleased to have won the ellis lottery, and it looks like they’ll have a center combination of d’alembert and b.wright. they also have an intriguing 25 yr. old rookie, mekel, backing up calderon and ellis. myers did well to out-manoever cuban and donnie nelson for iguodala, but considering how close carlisle kept them in the chase for a playoff spot last season, they’ll do their part to revive the tradition of rough road trips through Tx.

    • Dallas is shaping up as an above-average inside-outside team. Not champs, but not tanking despite all the missed attempts to sign big name stars.

      • We’ll see this season how great a coach Carlisle really is. I used to think any team with Dirk and Marion is a lock to make the playoffs. Now? Not so much.

        What’s very interesting with the Mavs – is that Iguodala was close to signing in Dallas… A Calderon/Iguodala back court. Nice.

        OKC, Spurs, Houston, Clips, W’s, Grizzlies – that’s most likely 6 playoff spots set.

        For Playoff Seeds 7-8? Mavs will compete with Denver, Portland, Minnesota, Lakers, and Pelicans.

        • nowitski missed 29 games last season. of the four players who put in over 2000 min., the only two who surpassed 2100 (collison, mayo) departed. brand played 72 games, departed. troy murphy even started a game for them. ellis ended up with yet another team that has a scuffler’s chance at the eighth playoff spot, but maybe he’ll thrive without the burden of anointing himself his team’s best player.

          • warriorsablaze

            What makes you think Ellis WON’T anoint himself the team’s best player? I’m not sure Dirk is the kind of alpha dog that Ellis would defer to… but who knows? Last year he said he was as good as Dwayne Wade, so I’m not sure he gets it yet.

          • WAB, Ellis does what his coach tells him to do, just like every other player. Nelson told him to score, he scored. Nelson told him to play point, he played point. Smart told him to create shots for himself, and the Preacher told him the same thing. When Ellis went to the Bucks, it took less than 2 months for Skiles and Boylan (and the whole team) to decide to prioritize Ellis over Brandon Jennings.

            In the NBA, the single thing that separates stars from role-players is this:

            their ability to create shots.

            Ellis is one of the scariest players in the NBA. He cannot be stopped without massively extreme measures. At any point in time, there are never more than a handful of NBA players with that ability. You can’t even say that about Stephen Curry, as excellent as his game is.

            Look at any of Ellis’ lame-ass teams and tell me they’d have won more without him. We even have the pre- and post-Ellis Ws of 2011-2012 for some evidence on that topic.

            So what’s your issue with Monta, WAB? Some misguided promo spot he did? You seem like a bright guy, so I wonder why you think bad promos have anything to do with basketball. You don’t really think they tell you about the inner Ellis, do you?

          • opponents beat ellis’ teams by making him a sideshow. the successful ones focus on his team, and let him take .40 of his team’s shots and score 30+ for a loss. the winning tactic has been proven repeatedly — take away the drives, concede mid range jumpers from certain areas. he’s failed to resist taking shots where his percentages are terrible, so his shooting overall has declined for several seasons. carlisle, combined with the vets that ellis will have to acknowledge, might reform his habits just enough to make him a winner.

          • Which only demonstrates, once again, that basketball is a team game.

            Monta is no Jordan or LB James, but both those guys played many years for losers too.

            Next year, with a good team? Different story.

    • Here’s the next edition of the Dallas Mavericks:

      Dirk
      Dalembert
      Vince Carter/Shawn Marion
      Monta Ellis
      Jose Calderon

      The team is run by Rick Carlyle, a championship coach.

      moto, that is a scary team. If the Mavs can squeak out a few defensive stops along the way, they could completely demolish the rest of the West. Their biggest challenge will not be the competition, but age and injuries.

      • the offense only needs to get ellis to keep things moving and distribute on those 8-10 possessions a game that he takes the mid range jump shots and misses .70-.75 of his attempts (he’s been charted, and Dal was one of the first teams to use synergy video analysis). plenty of games won or lost by the difference of six or fewer possessions, whether they’re converted, free throws made or missed, or wasted entirely.

        • Yes, on a completely hopeless Bucks team Ellis missed a lot of shots. On the Warriors he did a lot better. On Nelson’s We Believe team he led the league in efficiency.

          You want to argue that Ellis (PER 21.1) is no good? I guess that would mean Kobe (PER 23.1) and Curry (PER 21.7) are lousy too. What does that make Thompson (PER 12.1)?

          Teams and teammates matter. Systems matter. Coaching makes a difference. When everyone in the building knows you’re going to get the shot, your shooting stats are going to get hammered. When you’re playing next to Nowitski, Vince Carter, Shawn Marion, et. al., things get easier.

          So what exactly is your point, moto?

          • in ellis’ career year his true shooting pct. was .580 from an average of 14.4 attempts per game. he hasn’t averaged less than 16 attempts per game since, and he’s only exceeded .530 in true shooting pct. once since that time, for oaktown or Mil. by no means is he the only player too much in love with mid range jump shots, and playing with weak teammates might encourage selfishness, but he played selfishly when there were more efficient scorers on his team like curry and lee.

            since his big contract from mullin, he’s never approached that year when davis, jackson, richardson, biedrins, and harrington got them to the second round of the playoffs. getting a three year deal instead of four, settling for less than his original goal, playing for a coach who will sit him down (he might have to watch a rookie, mekel, from the bench if carlisle chooses) could turn him into a better player and teammate.

            ellis’ loyal fans should be commended, but the rest of us will be content to see him succeed for another team. won’t mind at all if Dal and ellis come out ahead of the lacobites in the standings.

  96. Lee is not only better than Aldridge, but also better fit for Warriors.

    Biggest priority is for Warriors to strengthen front court. Roster shaping up nicely.

    Erman looks like excellent replacement for Malone..

    • The W’s weaknesses remain health risks to Andrew Bogut at Center AND defense at both the PF position in David Lee and the PG position with Stephen Curry. We’ll live with Stephen Curry’s below average defense as he’s so efficient an offensive player.

      Lee’s playoff injury – and the resulting step up in play by the W’s bench – showed Lee is now expendable. The W’s actually played better when their All-Star was injured against two 60-win caliber playoff teams.

      Please look at Lee vs. Aldridge defensive stats as you do for Udoh in making your points. You’ll find that Aldridge is a much better defender than Lee. Lee gives up more points defensively when he’s on the court. Aldridge gives up less points defensively when he’s on the court.

      Both players are NBA All-Stars who contribute on the offensive end.

  97. @104 moto,

    I am so bored with this.

    Like you, I always assumed Ellis was “inefficient” because that’s what all the “experts” say in the media echo chamber. Then I looked into it.

    The truth is that Ellis’ efficiency is almost identical to Curry’s and Lee’s. His shooting percentage is lower than Curry’s, for example, but he draws far more fouls.

    When Ellis and Curry played together, Ellis also got more assists than Curry AND played far better defense. Not bad for a “selfish” player.

    But hey, why let facts get in the way of whatever point you’re trying to make, moto? I’ll just avert my eyes, whatever.

    • there’s no single correct way to interpret events. have no problem with you and the boss sticking to your ellis estimation.

      career, points per shot attempt — ellis 1.18 , curry 1.27
      career, true shooting pct. — ellis .526 , curry .586

      maybe it’s just superstition to consider those numbers a means to examine efficiency, and maybe it’s superstition to ignore them. we probably don’t enjoy the same things in life either. the boss likes nice whiskies, me, old world pinot noir, sangiovese, nebbiolo

      • A player’s offensive numbers are only valid in context. Teams and teammates matter. Systems and coaches matter.

        If Curry had spent 1.5 season on the Bucks instead of the recent Ws, his overall numbers would have been lower too.

        • o.k., ellis’ game has been victimized by bad ‘mates and poor coaching. can blame that fat contract that mullin gave him too, and the big increase in tattoos. his shot attempts increasing with accuracy decreasing started right after he got them.

          • I know you’re being facetious, moto, but for the record, do you think a red car is faster than a blue one?

            If I remember correctly, Monta’s tats started showing up just after the Ws’ brilliant management team replace the guts of the We Believe team with Cory Maggette. When Biedrins started to fail, and sJax and Harrington started lobbying for more money and an escape hatch. Just putting Monta’s on-court performance stats in context…

  98. Moto, it is amusing to me that you speak of the possibility of Monta “reforming his habits” once he gets to Dallas. Since We Believe, Monta has never played for a team that wasn’t completely desperate for him to carry the entire load. How can you even consider, let alone speak about selfishness or shot selection in these circumstances?

    To my eye, Monta wasn’t the slightest bit selfish playing with Curry, once Curry advanced his game in the second half of his rookie season. It was Keith Smart, not Monta, who made Monta the man and attempted to rein Curry into a more traditional role. That was corrected under Mark Jackson. But under both Smart and Jackson, Curry was frequently not healthy, when he played at all, and that made it completely natural that Monta assume the load.

    On bad teams, it is extraordinarily difficult for a primary scorer to figure out where the line is between carrying the load and selfishness. One only has to look at Monta’s remarkable assist stats — second in the league only to Harden (who himself was accused of selfishness recently) — to know that Monta walks that line as well as virtually any two-guard in NBA history.

    • @FB/Hat – Your defense of Monta Ellis’ game will be tested in Dallas over next season.

      In Dallas, Ellis will be playing with a talented team with an excellent coach, organization, and ownership that wants to compete/will spend money to do so. Hall of famer-Dirk, Marion, and Carter – are nearing the end of their careers – but have 23 All-Star appearances between them. Calderon is one of the best shooting and assist/TO players in the NBA. Dalembert protects the rim well. I expect a #7 playoff seed for the Mavs even before their bench is built out.

      No more excuses for Monta Ellis. Either he’s the second coming of Allen Iverson or he’s just a little better player than Lou Williams.

      Time will tell.

      • My “defense” of Ellis’ performance history is simply regurgitating stats and facts.

        Here’s a non-stats prediction based on Ellis’ history:

        With the ball in his hands, Ellis is a disruptive player who warps defenses by demanding attention. With that in mind, every coach Ellis has ever had has chosen to put the ball in Ellis’ hands as much as possible. All 5 of them. He gets double-teamed. That opens up other shooters. His assist numbers say Ellis isn’t shy about sharing the ball. So there’s little doubt Dallas will improve with Ellis on the team.

        I only wonder if Ellis will essentially come to serve as the PG, with Calderon playing more the traditional shooting guard role. They’d play like Jack/Curry, only with a better, faster, more “assistful” PG.

        Like you, PB, I’ll pencil in Dallas at 7th seed right now, but I think they have more potential than that. It all depends on their health. As you say, this is a group who can play. But being an older team, their health risk is higher than most.

  99. Bogut’s inability to provide weak side help makes him an inadequate defender. Udoh and Lee played great defense together.

    • I’d much prefer an Aldridge/Bogut front court. Rebounding, shot-blocking, defense, scoring, passing, shooting – this front court has everything.

      My preferred W’s lineup has Harrison Barnes at PF which is another debate all unto itself.

      Actually I’d be all for trading for Udoh to pair with Lee – OFF the W’s current bench. Lee needs Udoh’s help defense for sure.

      The Udoh and Lee tandem – didn’t rebound so well. Udohsanity was fun, but he wasn’t a consistent scorer (being nice here) or rebounder. Udoh is a nice defensive back-up PF off the W’s bench.

    • Udoh’s overall contribution to the Ws was THE reason the Ws decided to go after Bogut. If team management had thought Udoh was good, they wouldn’t have felt it necessary to make such a costly trade to replace him.

      Has Udoh done anything since to change their minds? Right. He ain’t comin’ back.

  100. Well, if you last year’s team was better than the year before you would have expected the Warriors with Bogut to have performed better with Bogut on the floor than the did with Udoh They didn’t. If fact, with Udoh, they performed two-third better than with Bogut was on court. And such was the result as two years ago when both played limited games with the Bucks. As the Bucks did 2/3 better with Udoh then they did with Bogut.

    So the Warriors made a bad trade. If you like seeing perimeter and interior opponents score repeatedly inside as they did with Bogut on the courts they did last year, then Bogut is your man.

    • I’m curious, Frank.

      Why do you think the Ws started a total of only two games with Udoh?

      Why do you think the Ws dumped Udoh?

      Why hasn’t Udoh gotten more play in Milwaukee?

      Udoh has had 4 different coaches now. Do you think his 5th coach will give Udoh more minutes, or less, or about the same? Note that I didn’t ask what he SHOULD do, but what you think he will do.

  101. An interesting article in the “who woulda thunk it” vein:

    http://dontberedickulous.blogspot.com/2013/07/so-dwight-howard-is-rocket-re.html

    A year after Orlando lost Howard, they’re the only team in that 4-team deal that didn’t get demolished.

  102. Man, nobody can shoot on the summer league squad. Still, they’ve got to do something with Bazemore. Any chance he and Douglas could run the second unit? Or is Nedovic going to get a shot next season? You lose shooting with the second option, play making with the first, but maybe they could get help at 3 & 4.

    They should see if they can get Seth Curry on the D-league team. He’ll need a season of rehab, maybe, but also needs to develop at point. He didn’t get a chance at Duke. He can shoot and should have a good head.

    I assume everyone saw Bazemore’s dunk last night:

    • ian clark, who will probably get to choose between going to Mia’s or GS’s training camp, had considerably higher shooting percentages in college than seth curry, both in 3’s and 2’s. his points per shot attempt efficiency was 1.5, the equivalent of shooting .50 from three point range. he was also defensive player of the year in two different conferences.

      • I like the fact that Clark can shoot AND defend – albeit he is undersized for a SG. On paper, I’d say sign him up! Lol!

        In fairness to Seth – there’s a big difference between getting nice stats/numbers at Duke and at Belmont.

        • clark’s test will come in the summer scrimmages against proven vets, and pre season games. tougher competition than the summer league, as we’ve seen again and again. o.t.o.h., erman stressed defense in ‘vegas, so clark has been partially initiated, and the coach consistently gave clark minutes as the third guard. he and bazemore were two of their more consistent sources for scoring (still have to score to win, great d notwithstanding).

          level of competition in the different conferences is tough to sort out. if you’re on a good team, the opponents’ best defenders might be assigned on your ‘mates (this was how barnes thrived in the post season). jenkins and fredette had similar scoring numbers in school, and the latter was supposed to be better, coming from a stronger conference. jenkins could still score in the n.b.a., but both he and fredette will have very low ceilings because of their lack of speed. clark isn’t slow, with or without the ball.

  103. Do you want a center who reduces the opponent’s shooting percentage, allows the team as a team to garner defensive rebounds and outscored their opponent’s by a wide margin. , or do you your center to merely have good individual DR stats! If you want the lTe Bogut is your man. When Udoh and lee were on court together , the Warriors destroyed the opposition.

    I remember when the opposition two years ago shot 60 percent from the field, and everyone but me wanted Biedrens
    to continue to start Biedrins over Udoh. Stupid.
    One can honestly say that Lacob and company were either wittingly or intentionally tanking the season.

    When the Warriors wanted to trade for Bogut, Udoh started playing :0 minutes per game, the Warriors started winning and the Warriors had the second best defense in the NBA.

    Udoh should have started his rookie year.Were the Buck coaches as stupid as Jackson was? Probably.

  104. It should also be noted that the Bucks have at least three big men who are better than Bogut-Sanders, Udoh, and Henson.

  105. You’re talking about the old Bogut. The Warriors two years ago outscored their opponents by 6 plus points per 48 minutes, Udoh and Lee on court together. Bogut-lee, at best 2 points. Udoh the last two years rated much higher than Bogut defensively. All Bogut can do is guard his man ok which is not much in today’s NBA.

    With Bogut on court. Lay up by Pg, Sg, Sf, and Pf. Each scoring at will on on jump shots in the paint. Pathetic.

    • Here’s the most up-to-date Bogut/Udoh stats. Mostly from Bogut/two rookies (Barnes/Green).

      Playoff Bogut averaged 3.3 offensive RPG and 0.5 steals per game. That’s 3.8 possessions per game. 1.8 APG. Defensively, playoff Bogut averaged 1.5 blocks per game. Shot .582 FG and .348 FT. In 27 minutes per game.

      Playoff Udoh averaged 0.8 offensive RPG and 0.5 steals per game. That’s 1.3 possession per game. 0.3 APG. Defensively, playoff Udoh averaged 0.5 blocks per game. Shot .444 FG and .000 FT. In 13.5 minutes per game.

      Really – I’m not making this stuff up. These are really NBA stats – not subjective comments. Don’t believe the stats? Here’s the links for the info. Watching every Warriors games and 2 of Miami/Bucks games, my eyes told me the same exact story.

      http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/2747/seasontype/3/andrew-bogut

      http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/4261/seasontype/3/ekpe-udoh

  106. If you need a good sports laugh or two…

  107. “We think that in our system, Monta can really bloom,” owner Mark Cuban said. “He has superstar potential. It will be fun to see how much his game grows under Rick and playing next to Dirk and a pass-first point guard like Jose [Calderon].”

    http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dallas-mavericks/headlines/20130720-sefko-new-maverick-ellis-can-become-all-star-if-he-plays-more-efficiently.ece

    • geraldmcgrew

      MontaPalooza!

      • geraldmcgrew

        Obviously it all depends on whether Nowitzki can still play at an all-star level. Fingers crossed.

        Still curious/concerned whether Monta will be used correctly, whether he will get to guard primarily PGs, etc. (just as I wonder whether GSWs will manage their roster correctly when not forced into it by playoff injury to their starting PF). I tend to have faith that Carlisle will find the right formulas, if not from the git-go then through trial and error (more faith than I’ve yet aquired in Jackson/Lacob).

    • Interesting that in 2012-13 Ellis recorded the 3rd highest PER of anyone on next season’s Mavs.

      The starting 5, in order:
      Dirk 19.0
      Marion 17.3
      Ellis: 17.0
      Calderon 15.9
      Dalembert 10.6

      Ellis’s PER is quite an upgrade over last year’s 2-guard, Mayo @ 14.7, and he did it while being his team’s #1 scoring option, unlike Mayo.

      Obviously, PER is extremely context sensitive – individual players are more or less efficient in different systems, surrounded by different players. Another way of saying that: overall team success affects the PER of the individual players on those teams. How else to explain that Karl Landry’s PER looks positively Dirk-like? The Warriors were the more efficient team overall, and no defenses keyed on Landry, surrounded as he was by more threatening scorers.

      So a pivotal question about Monta’s efficiency is: will next year’s Mavs be more efficient overall than last season’s Bucks? Probably.

      Another Q: will stopping Monta be the #1 priority of Mavs’ opponents? Absolutely not.

      Cuban is right, and we can write the headlines right now: Monta is going to have a “comeback” season.

      • I’d prefer an Ellis/Mayo back court personally. Mayo can guard the 2, Ellis the 1, and both players can play the 1 or 2 offensively. Mayo – a good perimeter shooter.

        An Ellis/Iguodala – as Dallas was pursuing – would have been fantastic to watch! Ellis guarding the 1 and Iguodala the 2? Both Ellis and Iguodala – can run the point. Iguodala – a great finisher, isn’t much of a shooter though.

        Calderon/Ellis – how can they defend? Ellis likely guards 2s and Calderon 1s? Recipe for disaster defensively. Plus, Ellis and Calderon – need the ball in their hands offensively. This backcourt was definitely Cuban Plan C…

        • geraldmcgrew

          Calderon/Ellis – when they’re both in I’d consider Ellis guarding the 1, Marion guarding whichever wing is the scoring threat which will sometimes be the 2, and trying to hide Calderon on the weakest opposing scorer on the floor. Not ideal obviously but I expect a lot of mixing and matching during the season until they find what works best. I hope to see Ellis running the P&R with Calderon spreading floor as shooter much of the time and I expect to see Ellis playing next to Wayne Ellington some when Calderon goes out.

  108. it’s only the summer league, but with the woeyrs trailing LA by ten and facing elimination from the championship round in the second half, erman switched up his back court and used clark in place of machado. rather than taking the shooter/scorer role as he was type cast from his reputation, clark was the glue guy/facilitator. he understands his size will limit him as a 2-guard in the bigs and knows he has to show more. bazemore appeared as turnover prone as he was in d-league last season.

    • The idea of Bazemore as a backup pg is a complete nonstarter. I’m guessing that the Warriors are giving him time there simply to improve his ball skills. They had Klay Thompson run the point last year in SL, for the same reason.

      And for the reason that they don’t have any rookie pgs on the SL roster, of course.

      I haven’t watched the SL this season, so I can’t give any scouting.

      • warriorsablaze

        You’ve missed out on some admittedly ugly, yet still kinda fun games. The tourney format seems to up the competition a bit.

        I’m not sure why Bazemore would be groomed as a PG anyway… his size (and ridiculous length) is more suited for the 2 anyway. He can handle ok and make a play or two, but he’s not gonna be running any offense. I do hope he gets more burn this season… I think he brings a unique collection of skills to this team.

      • we won’t know until training camp what their plan is for NN, but he has the guaranteed multi year contract and seems to be the likely nominee for the apprentice lead/combo guard. douglas only has a one year deal, so he will have the motivation of a contract year.

  109. Malcolm Thomas sets summer league rebounding record, signs with Maccabi.

    http://voiceinthestands.wordpress.com/

  110. PeteyBrian: I take it you accept as I pointed out the irrefutable evidence that the Warriors and Bucks by far outplayed their opponents with Udoh on the court than when when Bogut played in the same year for either team

    . Instead, you decide to compare there play for two different teams n the playoffs only.

    You give a very skewed and limited view of Bogut’s offensive stats in the playoffs and don’t place them in total context.

    For instance, you point o While Bogut shot shot 56% from the floor, and shot 35% from.om the foul-line, but fail to point out that when both are combined he shot around 50%. Nothing to brag about given that in 27 minutes of play he only scored about 3.5 baskets per game, which renders his shooting percentage meaningless. And while he did get 3 OR per game in the playoffs, he committed 1.5 plus turnovers with diminishes his garnering his OR stat as does the fact that he didn’t covert many of the OR’s he garnered as he made few baskets.

    Udoh took only averaged a little over 2 shots in 13 minutes of play per game. And you want to complain about his only making 43 percent of his shots?

    His weak side defense was in the playoffs quite bad as attested by the fact that the Warriors lost 4 our of 6 games to the Spurs, and in at least one game he had in had to be taken off the court in the fourth quarter.The Warriors always kicked ass with Udoh on the court in the fourth quarter.

    Udoh averaged 13 minutes per game in the playoffs, which is maybe one reason the Bucks were unsuccessful. The Bucks had many big man. And the Bucks never utilized his strengths as the Warriors did. In the games I viewed, the Bucks coaching in fact was quite bad.

    • Frank, please stop on the Udoh kick. As much as you like his game, he is never going to be a star, or even a 30-minute per game player. He did not get the chance with the Warriors that he may have deserved, but the team decided to use him to dump Ellis and pick up Bogut. It was all part of the front office’s culture change, as has been detailed extensively on this blog.

      The fact that he was not the central figure in the trade, nor has he produced since, clearly shows that he is nothing more than a roll player. Admittedly, he would be a nice 7th or 8th option off the bench for a contending team, but his lack of offensive ability limits his overall value. Also, his size limits him against thicker post players (the Z-Bo’s and Jefferson’s of the world). As a help defender he’s been great at times, but as a rebounder and scorer, he’s seriously lacking, hence the small sample size.

      • Nothing can hide the fact that Udoh doesn’t rebound well nor shoot from the field with any sort of efficiency – for a decent NBA big man. Udoh shoots in the low 40’s – low for a player closer to 7 feet… Even 5’3″ Mugsy Bogues has a higher career shooting percentage than Udoh… The W’s starting shooting guard – Iguodala – averages similar rebounds to Udoh.

  111. It looks like the Warriors have two slots open on the roster. Green and Nedovic are guaranteed, right? I assume they’ll keep Bazemore and let Kevin Murphy and Machado go.

    So who will the last two be?

    • including bazemore (who probably has a conditional guarantee on his contract), the team has only twelve guaranteed deals on the books, so if they cut d.jones, machado, murphy they’d have three spots open. with ezeli assured a place on the inactive portion of the roster, potentially they can add two more to the active roster. d.jones, who was on the playoff roster for insurance, is listed as a team option, but with o’neal and speights they could choose to invest elsewhere.

  112. Mark Cuban finally admits he is the worst NBA GM in history, errrr….. finally hires a real GM.

    You might find it interesting to compare Rosas’ resume to Bob Myers:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba–mavericks-reach-agreement-with-rockets-executive-gersson-rosas-to-become-general-manager-141302827.html

    I’m assuming that Little Donnie Nelson will be left in charge of popcorn sales.

    • The Celtics, Suns, 76ers, Magic, and Jazz – are all setting up for a low lottery pick… Blow it up, Mark – Blow it up! Lol!

    • I’d have to go with Otis Smith or Isaiah Thomas for worst. Or maybe John Hammond, who’s responsible for that hot mess in Milwaukee. Or Elgin Baylor, who presided over decades of futile Clippers teams.

      • Which one of those GMs blew up not one, but two, championship teams, as a result of gross egotism and miscalculation?

        • I definitely see your point, but never getting your team out of the basement at all is rougher on everybody concerned.

  113. Den signed n.robinson for roughly the same $ that t.douglas got, with a second year player’s option. overall the market was a bit softer for guards than the free agents would have liked. ellis fired his career-long agent and modified his expectations, jennings will probably be stuck playing for the qualifying offer. jack didn’t get a big raise to a starter’s salary.

    mentioned as a possible candidate to coach in oaktown before the preacher’s hiring, and again for the bussies before they hired d’antoni, shaw is getting his chance on the carousel in Den. if he can keep them from sinking before gallinari’s return, they could stay in the conversation for the bottom playoff positions.

    • Shaw is going to be an absolute disaster coaching this roster. A debacle on the order of Rambis coaching the TWolves and Cleamons coaching the Mavs. The triangle is not an NBA system, and these Nuggets are not fit in the slightest for the halfcourt.

      Then you get to the part where JaVale McGee will be starting at center, and Randy Foye(!) or Evan Fournier starting at the two. Both Iggy and Cory Brewer gone. Gallinari out indefinitely, and not good when he returns…

      An absolute disaster. No playoffs.

      • according to what shaw himself said in one of his introductory media sessions, he isn’t going to install the triangle. plans to evaluate the players and video and work up something compatible with their strengths, including a continuation of last year’s fast offense.

        since he’s from oaktown and has paid his dues, not going to root against him.

        • Ah well, if that’s the case then I take it all back. I will be rooting for him to get it right. (One of the reasons I assumed he wouldn’t was because of a Phil Jackson tweet about his hiring. Something to the effect that the Nuggets would benefit by having a “system coach.”)

          He’s been screwed on the roster though. The Nuggets will struggle to make the playoffs even if Shaw turns out to be brilliant.

  114. The only player would should be talking about is Bogut and the fact that he basically sucks. He can’t shoot (45% for year) can’t hit foul shots, and can’t defend the weakside. He takes few shots, often misses and scores off his own miss. So, much for offensive rebounds, So, on most offensive possessions, the guy is a total waste. But if you want to concentrate on his guarding his own guy and getting defensive rebounds do so. He makes few steals and rarely do the Warriors obtain his blocked shots. And if you guys seem to loved him even though he was hurt the last two years, and couldn’t run with him being on the court which is the Warriors strength, You can only hope he’s healthy this year. The Warriors are not likely ever to win a championship with him on the court. If Speights plays well, he’s probably now our third best center, So, in the final analysis he’s a Warrior and you love him. Love is blind.

    • Frank, I guess it’s not visible on your spreadsheet, but even a busted-up Bogut did stuff for the Ws this season that Udoh has never done in his career. Bogut bodied up and boxed out. He got rebounds. He defended low post players man on man with more strength and smarts than Udoh ever has. He handled the ball and passed well, something that is still totally beyond Udoh.

      And Bogut did all that on 1.5 ankles. Next season he’ll be even better – he may get all the way up to 1.75 ankles. So why don’t we at least wait and see if he gets healthier before we bury the guy? Even if you don’t like him, he does have his strengths. And he’s what we have.

      • warriorsablaze

        Also, don’t forget the beastly screens in the playoffs…. there’s a reason Curry was able to elevate his game. Lee is an absolute HORRIBLE screener. Sometimes it works because he’s great at slipping it and diving to the rim, but that doesn’t help Curry, who should be the one taking the shot whenever possible. Bogut destroyed people in the playoffs. I’m cautiously optimistic… I just hope we can get 60+games out of him next season.

    • relax, Frank. one more season with a mediocre but engaging bogut is preferable to being stuck for two or four more seasons of dimwits like d.jordan or howard. the bar for starting centers just isn’t that high — biedrins once looked like he’d be worth his 9 m. per annum, remember ?

  115. geraldmcgrew

    Cuban:
    “We think we got really (lucky) when we got Monta Ellis. We didn’t think he would be available….We think he’s never been around a great team. He had it maybe his first or second year when they beat us in the playoffs but that fell apart. We don’t think he’s been in the type of organization that we have, either….(Dirk)’s had all summer to prepare his body and get ready….I can also tell you, the way people are just randomly dismissing him as being done has been incredible motivation for him as well….Dirk is fired up….Monta was a guy that Dirk loves. If you ask him about him, he’d say ‘can we get him, can we get him, can we get him?’
    While everybody dismisses Monta and say(s) he can’t do this and he can’t do that, you have to look at our history of integrating scorers like that….We feel when you put a guy like Monta into our system with a player like Dirk, into our culture where I think we do a good job of integrating players, we think Monta can make the same advances and have the same improvements to his game….(Dirk)’s still going to demand a double team….Now, we’ve added someone who can run a pick and roll with him and knows how to run it and knows how to use a screen.
    http://www.thetwomangame.com/2013/07/clearingdoubt/

  116. OK, Ian Clark looks good. He has more upside than Nedovic, may well make it easy to let Douglas go after next season, and will probably run point better than Bazemore (which is not saying much) if not sooner, then later.

    What would it take to pick him up? Do teams bid? Does any have rights to him? How does this work?

    We all like Green, but man, his offense needs work everywhere. He should have shined in these games.

    • Clark is an undrafted free agent. his agent will try to get him a guaranteed deal comparable to a second round pick. that might prove difficult. short of that kind of close out bid, myers should step up and offer at least a conditionally guaranteed deal, minimum scale (approx. 800 k.), that becomes guaranteed if he makes the opening day roster. considering how long they carried tyler and jenkins, and how clark’s skills complement their guards and wings, opens up the court on offense, it’s hardly a high risk gamble. potentially he’s good for spot relief minutes and gives the reserve unit needed scoring. at worst, they stash him in d-league as a trade asset or injury insurance.

      • The summer league squad was quite reminiscent of the 2nd unit last season in their inability to score, for obvious similar reasons. The transformation of the game tonight was immediate when Clark came in. Nedovic’s sprained ankle may be a stroke of luck. They got to try Clark, and that they gave him so many minutes tonight might be a sign of their interest.

        • MT tweeted that he will get a camp invite, but is likely to get a better offer elsewhere.

          • Nellieball is changing the world. There’s been a run on deadly perimeter shooters in the NBA this off-season. Korver’s big deal, etc. I can’t see how Clark’s not signed for a Jeremy Lin-type undrafted FA-type deal (2 years) somewhere.

    • warriorsablaze

      I’d be really surprised if Clark didn’t sign elsewhere… he’s simply not gonna get significant minutes here. A fringe player like him might be better served going to a garbage team where he’ll get an opportunity to sink or swim. It’s better for him to be an 8th or 9th man in Utah or somewhere than the 12th man here.

      • Thanks so SL, Ian Clark – now knows Miami and GS coaches and players which might be important too – as to where he might fit. GS has been a good place for undrafted free agents to flourish in the past. What a great prospect.

  117. Warriors should sign Clark immediately. I can’t believe some posters don’t
    see his immense talent, and I’m not basing that solely on last night’s came. Very focused player. Consistent deadly outside shooter. Better than Thompson shooting from the perimeter and that’s saying something.

    Warriors could have developed Bazemore as a SG all summer. What a waste at PG. He’s a potential talent, if the guy can just cut down his turnovers.

    • Agreed! Sign the guy. However, every team in the NBA is onto Clark now.

      I’ve only seen SL highlights of this kid – but Moto brought it to my attention that Ian Clark was a collegiate defensive player of the year in his league – which doesn’t make him an immediate NBA defender, but tells me he shouldn’t be much of a defensive liability either (however undersized). Anyone who shoots 45% from three in college season (even at Belmont) means he can stick open perimeter shots which is now a premium with Nellieball abounding in the NBA.

      Can he handle, pass, create? Who knows. But Mike Miller has been amnestied by Miami – and the Heat can use a player who can make open threes. If he can be a passable NBA defender – an outright steal.

      Why wasn’t this kid drafted? 60+ players in the Draft have more NBA potential than this kid???

    • warriorsablaze

      Where has anyone posted against signing Clark? People have simply posted the obvious reality that he’ll likely get a better shot somewhere else with less backcourt depth. If he’s smart, anyway, he’ll go where he has the opportunity to play and earn a second contract, not the place where he watches games all year from the bench.

      • do you know that clark would be at the end of the woeyrs bench all season ? his all around skill level might be higher than bazemore’s or nedovic’s — players of that ilk actually need guys like clark to spread the defenses. do we know if nedovic can play perimeter defense better than clark ? his stats overseas suggest he’s only an average perimeter shooter. the best second unit might be something built around douglas, clark, thompson, or douglas, clark, bazemore. not hard to conceive that clark could have a better all around game than belinelli, who has been steadily employed since getting traded from GS and has signed with SA to be on popovich’s bench. ben gordon, about the same size as clark and considered too small for a 2-guard, has more than $60 m. in career earnings.

  118. From SI:

    “My teammates kept looking for me,” Clark said. “I made sure I spaced the floor out, and let guys like Kent and Draymond do what they need to do, and if they needed me, I’d be ready.”

    Which is exactly what the 2nd unit needs, where they struggled mightily. And if Klay puts time there, they’ll be able to put the defensive players on the court and hold their own well.

    Both Nedovic and Bazemore can drive and dunk—against European and summer league opposition. But a shooter can shoot against any team, if he gets an opening. We don’t know much about Nedovic’s PG skills; Bazemore looks like a lost cause. Machado is out. Douglas only has a one year contract—and Clark looks to have a better head. They’re not going to get a quality PG from the draft for several years, obviously, and won’t want to pay for a quality free agent. He might be their best prospect for the next few years.

    And if nothing else, if Clark puts up good numbers in d-league, he should develop into a good draft piece.

    • the preacher’s endorsement, from the ‘point forward’ blog on si.com — ” he carried us…We’d love to have him. He’s an n.b.a. player.” even if this was positivity spin for the media, it was the least he could do to help the young man and increase offers from competing teams.

  119. Nice piece on Asik, and why he won’t work out with Howard at Houston.

    “If the right move comes along to move Asik for a point guard, or package him with one of the young bigs for a power forward, Morey will pull the trigger.”

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/houston-rockets-center-omer-asik-rightfully-available-wanted-193100201.html

    Such a trade would set the Warriors up for a couple of years, make it easy not to gamble on Bogut, and save money for other big deals. Who could we send? Think they’d bite on you-know-who?

    • howard’s obstinacy and narcissism will be the biggest factor if Hou fails to climb into the top six playoff seeds next season. because of him, the kind of player they probably want for asik is not available from the woeyr roster — a big with three point range, or even a good perimeter player who can shoot 3’s (the lacobites would probably demand a bigger price for thompson, but his rookie scale contract makes that difficult in a trade, and to a greater degree in the case of barnes). GS itself could use another good 3 pt. shooter, like clark.

  120. Zach Lowe’s offseason winners and losers.

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9501245/nba-offseason-moves-assessing-winners-tankers-everything-between

    I think he’s underrating the Warriors chances next year. If Lee’s healthy, they’re going to be very, very good.

    • cannot agree with the writer’s prediction for good things from the harden-howard pick and roll, and of course it’s howard’s dislike of the play that will minimize its deployment. he didn’t like running it with one of the all time virtuosos, nash, probably because he’s afraid of getting exposed by a normal sized teammate, or by defenses who might force him into quick decisions. if asik stays around as howard’s back up, das übermensch might have to watch asik execute it.

      • Howard is reaching the point in his career where he either can’t or won’t expand his comfort zone. It happens to every player sooner or later. P&R doesn’t appear to be part of the game Howard is good with. I think if McHale, Harden and the rest can ease him into Rocket-style ball, the Rockets could be a very good team.

        On the other hand, if Howard doesn’t come around, and the team has to play what Dwight considers Dwight ball, his move to Houston could result in a complete disaster, even worse than in LA last year.

        I’m betting Houston has a slow start, followed by a mediocre finish, as Howard grudgingly adapts to the team game. It’s a recurring pattern for him wherever he goes.

        No wonder Houston wants to keep Asik. They need the option to bench Dwight.

        • It’s not a skill thing, Howard was among the most effective P&R big men in the league in Orlando, playing with much lesser PGs.

  121. Should Ian Clark/Warriors not work out, the W’s MUST consider this…

    Consider signing Seth Curry to the 14th or 15th man or Santa Cruz’s D-League team for development.

    The REAL, true Splash Brothers…

    Pan to a photo of 4 year old Stephen Curry and baby Seth Curry splashing around in the bath tub. Lol!

    The W’s “owe” the Curry family’s future estate a favor after the jacked up deal they locked Stephen Curry into! Lol!

    • “The Spurs signed Marco Bellinelli at the start of free agency and expect him to replace Neal as the team’s primary perimeter shooter off the bench.”

      As a great shooter, Gary Neal will have no problem finding a spot elsewhere, which probably prices him out of the Warriors’ reach.

      To the Spurs, Bellinelli must look like a cheaper, harder working, more team-oriented player than Neal. Maybe their assessment has something to do with all his years of humble one-year deals after leaving the Warriors.

      Feltie, I vaguely remember you expressing a low opinion of Bellinelli, but I’ve always rooted for him. I have a soft spot for 3-legged puppies too. For a sub-standard athlete (by NBA standards), he’s a fine player. I doubt he’ll do what Neal could do for San Antonio, but think he’ll more than cover what Neal would>/i> do for them.

      • He has greatly improved his defense from his time as a Warrior. Credit to him.

        He also better understands what shots he can get off and what he can’t, which he struggled greatly with before. I still expect every clutch shot he takes to brick, though, and can’t remember ever being disappointed in that.

        He’s a good, high IQ bench player. But didn’t reach the expectations of his high draft status.

  122. MT2 introduces Jermain O’Neal:

    http://www.mercurynews.com/sports/ci_23715222/jermaine-oneal-picked-golden-state-warriors-because-team

    Tremendously excited to see Curry finally get the chance to work with 2-way centers. Should greatly alleviate the way he’s blitzed on pick and roll.

    Also, this is a point I intend to elaborate on later: The acquisitions of O’Neal and Speights made Iggy a MUCH better fit for this team. Bogut/Iggy lineups will frequently struggle for offense.

    • “Bogut/Iggy lineups will frequently struggle for offense.”

      That is not obvious to me, but it’s also not obvious how Iggy will mesh with the Ws of this past season. Very interested in hearing your thoughts.

    • most fans are thinking in terms of ‘building’ on last season’s success, but this season begins a major transitional period. o’neal and bogut both essentially have one year contracts, and the season needed to assess ezeli has been erased as well. at best we might see two months from the second year player with him approximately at the level he was last spring.

      iguodala mentioned one of the reasons he chose GS over other teams was the high hoops i.q. and team orientation he saw in the most important players. his own adaptability will obviously be a key factor in getting the many new pieces to fit, and in that respect bogut’s hoops i.q. will keep him a viable part of the equation if his body holds up, even with his scoring handicaps.

      the reason the preacher kept curry, lee, thompson on the court for heavy minutes, he saw the surrounding players struggle to generate scoring opportunities without them. iguodala was criticized by Den and Phi fans as being too generous in facilitating and setting up ‘mates, which along with his d makes him a contrast to jack. we saw the preacher forced out of his habits during the playoffs, and ironically facing iguodala for an entire series was part of the process. we’ll have to wait to see what the coaches sans malone will do with four significant alterations to the roster.

      • Bogut/Iggy – having trouble with offense? With Curry, Klay, Lee, and Barnes? I agree that O’Neal and Speights – provide nice scoring.

        I think people underestimate the value – particularly in the playoffs – of having elite defenders. It’s not ALL about offense… Defense MATTERS.

        Chandler/Marion – won an NBA Championship.

        I think it’ll be the Bogut/Lee – lineup with a front court combo – playing two big men in today’s NBA – that will have problems scoring…

        I think Lee needs to come off the bench this season and play more Barnes at the stretch 4. The playoffs – opened up a can of worms regarding Lee’s game.

    • Not sure how closely you’ve been following Jermaine O’Neal in recent years, but he’s a pretty awful offensive player these days — almost as inefficient as Bogut, without Bogut’s saving offensive grace of being an excellent ballhandler/passer (for a 7-footer). He has a cumulative offensive RAPM of a -3.2, which ranks him well below Bogut (-1.9), and among the very worst offensive players in the league.

      On the bright side, he gains all of that and a bit more back on defense, where he’s an almost-Bogut-level stud (+3.5).

      Yes, unlike Bogut, he can occasionally hit a wide-open 10-15-footer, which makes him a better target for Curry off a pick-and-pop. On a straight pick-and-roll, I’d actually rather have Bogut, who even on his gimpy wheels is a bit quicker and more explosive to the rim than the 35 y.o. edition of O’Neal.

      Also, whatever one might say about Bogut’s (lack of) skills at the receiving end of the P&R or P&P, there’s no denying that he sets killer picks. Towards the ends of the season, when he started to get in better sync with Curry and the rest of the team (in the series against Denver, e.g.), he occasionally freed up Curry for good looks simply by picking and parking, and letting Curry brush off his massive frame.

    • I think Bogut/Iggy and a spread 4 will be fine offensively. They should create transition opportunities with their D for 1, but you are also overs-estimating Iggy’s shooting woes. 2 years ago he shot 39% from 3. Teams will have to close out on him at least as much as they did on Barnes and Green, and those 2 were very effective spreading the floor around Bogut in the playoffs. Certainly there will be some matchups where those 2 together will struggle, it’s on the coaches to recognize those and use the versatility they’ve assembled on the bench.

      • if iguodala facilitates three or five additional fast breaks when bogut is on the floor, bogut’s lack of offense is a non-factor those possessions. jack wasn’t that good in running a break. bogut is good in finding guards and wings as soon as he’s secured a defensive board.

        • Actually, I noted in last year’s playoffs that Bogut’s inability to get up the court DID have a big effect on the Warriors break. Popovich cleverly used Duncan and Splitter to help stop the ball, and shut down the three point shooters in transition, on their way back to the lane. They had no worries that Bogut would beat them upcourt.

  123. How Chandler Parsons got Howard to Houston:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba–chandler-parsons-lured-dwight-howard-to-houston-045447291.html

    Bottom line to me: Howard confirmed what he already knew, that Kobe is an ass. He wants to play with friends, and be appreciated rather than pressured. And he wants the ball.

    • Agree with this statement re: Kobe, however it seems Steve Nash also had some on-court issues with Howard – which made me wonder who’s to blame.

  124. PB @31

    I can’t find out exactly what’s wrong with Seth’s leg, except that it was serious and many called it a stress fracture. He played with it his whole last season at Duke. He had surgery on it April 15, which was called “successful,” and was supposed to be out 10-12 weeks, but no word on his recovery or shape now.

    When you look at all the guards behind Curry, all have liabilities at point, largely playmaking skills and shooting. They need to keep looking for a backup. My first requirements are that he have a good head and be able to shoot. Seth may well fit the bill here, and I’d certainly rather see him in Santa Cruz than Machado. He may need time to rehab and will definitely need time to develop at point.

    • Seth – like Dell and Stephen – can likely kill it from NBA three which might be worth keeping him on the bench.

      Probably a questionable management decision – as 14th and 15th roster spots inevitably get cut or traded – and with big brother Stephen as your superstar, this might not be good business… If you were to keep Seth over a more promising prospect, players might take notice.

      There – I talked myself out of it. Lol!

    • I don’t think Seth can handle or initiate in the NBA. He’d be like Toney Douglas without the lockdown D. Not an improvement.

    • I only see Seth as a d-league development project, assuming no one else picks him up, with maybe the potential to become a good backup. No harm in trying. Certainly more potential than Machado. I don’t think Seth got a chance to develop at Duke under coach K—and I didn’t like the way coach K used Steph in team USA.

  125. the pre-training camp cuts just came. gone — murphy, machado, d.jones. with o’neal officially signed, there are thirteen on the roster. if they can sign clark, there’s still room in the budget and a final roster spot for another big, but they’re probably in no hurry to do anything until mid-season or another serious injury subtraction. if kuzmic shows up for summer scrimmages and pre season, he’d be an x-factor, but we should have modest expectations from him (and from NN for that matter).

    clark has displayed more to his game between the two summer leagues than what we saw from belinelli during his hyped summer session.

    • Our W’s traded two first rounders, two second rounders, Jefferson, Biedrins, and Rush – and then we cut Murphy???

      What’s the world coming to???

      Ian Clark would be great addition. Curry should take a rest once in a while!

  126. Would like to see more of Cameron Jones. Very good jump shot shooter and defender. Open question for me is his ability to take it inside.

    Neal would seem to be a good pick-up.

    The Warriors have a team that’s built to run. The question is whether Jackson realizes that.

    Felty, don’t quite understand why you say that Iggy should not be on court when Bogut is. Yes, it appears that ONeal and Speights are better shooters.. Iggy is a good 2 pointer shooter, 51%, and and below par shooting 3’s. Why don’t you say that for Thompson who is just the opposite.

    Think Mullens good pick up for Clippers.

    • Agreed – the jump shooting Mullens – always played well against the W’s – and Reddick – very nice pick-ups for the Clips. DeAndre still a big bust for them though…

      And any team with the rim being protected by Mullens – should be attacked…

  127. What? The W’s are on ESPN’s radar for competing for the Western Conference Finals? Must be Warriors PR on a roll. Give those marketing guys raises… Lol!

    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-on-5-130724/made-right-moves-western-conference

  128. Clark has landed in mormon-town, a two year contract (about as good as it gets for an undrafted player with no professional experience) with an assurance from UT he’ll have a chance for immediate playing time. they’ve made their push to the top of the lottery more interesting. hope he goes for 30 vs. the woeyrs — should expect him to do it somewhere.

    • Bummer.

      If the Warriors hadn’t picked up Nedovic, they would have had to have given him serious consideration. But also they could have brought him along perhaps more slowly, since they have Douglas.

      • haven’t heard if both years are guaranteed on clark’s deal. that’s what his agent needed to find for him. douglas only has a one year deal. the preacher praised clark highly, but would he tell him he’d be in the mix for the first or second guard off the bench ? no surprise, if clark ends up with a better career than either bazemore or nedovic — both of those guys have to establish that they can hit perimeter shots, or possess upper level ball handling skills/hoops i.q., and bazemore clearly isn’t headed toward attaining the latter.

        • Utah has an option on the second year.

          I agree that Clark is likely to have a better career than Bazemore. Bazemore needs to put the 3 in 3&D if he wants an NBA career. Which is exactly what I used to say about Charles Jenkins.

        • I’d read a Utah team option for season two. Smart move for Clark. With Utah in FULL TANK MODE, Clark should be immediately given lots of playing time. Clark would be riding the W’s bench like Jeremy Lin did.

          I do like Bazemore’s and Nedovic’s potential too.

          Also, W’s big into the “size for the position” requirement. If Clark is a two, he’s not the W’s or West’s prototypical player.

          • there have been plenty of combo guards at Clark’s size who have made a very good n.b.a. living. j.terry, just to name one, or ben gordon, with more than $60 m. in career earnings. all the stuff about size, speed, vertical jump, has been emphasized more because fewer players have developed ball skills, court vision/hoops i.q. you might be perceiving West’s preferences very selectively — he values skills and intelligence quite highly, but has probably adjusted his expectations in the era of barely-schooled players.

          • It’s true that many undersized NBA players succeed and make lots of money. Very true.

            My point is that Jerry West is on record that he wants size at all positions. So unless Ian Clark is a point guard, my educated guess is he’s not a Jerry West’s pick.

  129. warriorsablaze

    Wizards just gave Wall 5 years @ 80mil. How ridiculously good does Curry’s contract sound? Wall has a long way to go to live up to that kind of money… but or course small market cellar franchises have to overpay to keep the big dawgs around.

  130. @Sleepy — I’m the wrong person to quote advanced stats to. I find them opaque at best, and completely misguided at worst. Wasn’t RAPM the stat that couldn’t distinguish Derek Fisher from Kobe Bryant?

    Your assertion that Jermaine Oneal is “among the very worst offensive players in the league” is of course ludicrous. And your implication that Bogut is his equivalent or better on the offensive end is beyond ludicrous.

    Let’s look at some stats that actually mean something. ONeal shot 48% on a team in utter disarray last year. Bogut shot 45% getting spoonfed by a double teamed Stephen Curry. ONeal shot 83% from FT, Bogut 50%.

    ONeal CAN FINISH GAMES, Bogut CANNOT. As last years’ playoffs made painfully clear.

    Digging deeper:

    ONeal
    -Postups: 44% .87ppp 55th in league.
    -P&R: 53% 1.16ppp 26th

    Bogut
    -Postups: 23% .53ppp 166th
    -P&R: 53% .93ppp 91st

    (courtesy Synergy Sports)

    Take a good long look at those numbers and tell me that ONeal is poor offensively, and that Bogut is even remotely in his class. (In case you’re having trouble understanding the difference in pick and roll efficiency given the identical FG%, consider TOs and FTs.)

    Going beyond these numbers, it cannot be overstated how much Bogut benefited from playing with supremely talented and completely unselfish teammates, with incomparable ability to spread the floor. Fully 21% of his shot attempts last year came on CUTS, a category that didn’t even register for poor Jermaine on the selfish Suns. Do you seriously believe that a “healthy” ONeal won’t see a HUGE bump in his numbers and efficiency playing with Curry and Lee and Thompson? (Not sure RAPM can answer THAT question for you.)

    By the way, I didn’t need these stats to know the difference between Bogut and ONeal on offense. My EYES told me the story, and they remain my single best resource. ONeal absolutely punished Bogut and the Warriors inside last year:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=AvoQMOcKEcHQXTp62i48dQEfPKB4?gid=2013040521

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=AugeKxl96TN_EDTfnjqgPyYfPKB4?gid=2013022009

    I wonder that you didn’t notice. Mark Jackson certainly did: “He hurt us last year.”

    http://www.mercurynews.com/sports/ci_23715222/jermaine-oneal-picked-golden-state-warriors-because-team

    • RE: O’Neal
      O’Neal WAS one of those “selfish” players on the Suns. Do the W’s even want O’Neal taking many shots? No irrational exuberance guy needed here.

      At this stage of his career, I just want him to closeout games because he can defend and hit his FT/shots and Bogut can’t hit the side of a barn.

    • No reason to be frightened of RAPM, Feltie: it’s simply plus-minus (i.e. a player’s individual impact on his team’s W-L), taken over the largest possible sample size, weighted for most recent seasons, and adjusted for quality of teammates. If it’s the “adjusting” that frightens you, here are the raw numbers:

      2012-13
      Suns w/ O’Neal off the court: 102.7 pts per 100 possessions
      Suns w/ O’Neal on the court: 99.8 pts (-2.9)

      2011-12
      Celtics w/ O’Neal off the court: 102.7 pts
      Celtics w/ O’Neal on the court: 100.1 pts (-2.7)

      2010-11
      Celtics w/ O’Neal off the court: 108.2 pts
      Celtics w/ O’ Neal on the court: 103.0 (-5.2)

      In 2009-10, he was a solid plus with Miami, but now we’re talking about **four years ago** — which is why I introduced my comments “in recent years” and “these days.” Surely you’ll allow that it’s not uncommon for an NBA player’s production to diminish considerably between the ages of 30 and 35.

      Yes, plus-minus can be extremely noisy over small samples, but when we’re talking about the last three complete seasons, I see no reason to cover one’s eyes and ears.

      As for your suspicion that RAPM “couldn’t distinguish Kobe from Fisher” … well, that’s just silly. It does so quite easily: Kobe rates as a fantastic offensive player (+4.4) and a mediocre defender (-1.2) — a very solid +3.2 overall. At his peak he was a top 5 or 6 NBA player by the measure. Fisher, by contrast, rates just below mediocre on offense and defense: a sub-mediocre -0.9 overall.

      Here: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2013.html

      Top three players by RAPM: LeBron, Durant, Paul.
      Top three defenders by RAPM: Duncan, Howard, Garnett.
      Top three wing defenders by RAPM: Iguodala, P. George, T. Allen.

      See anything there that looks terribly amiss? To me it’s fairly remarkable to see a simple, unbiased numerical record of players’ impact on the court dovetail so nicely with what we all can see with our own eyes. Assuming you care about keeping your board reality-based, I don’t why you want to ignore such an important body of evidence. Obviously it should be looked at in the context of all the other available evidence, but to dismiss entirely is a disservice to your readers, imho.

      The synergy data you posted (notwithstanding your stated aversion to advanced stats, hm?) are interesting to be sure. I don’t have synergy, so I can’t know what kind of a sample we’re dealing with — if it’s just the 786 minutes Bogut played last year while recovering from a serious injury I think that may a bit unfair to his skills, limited as they are. Still, I have absolutely no reason to doubt that O’Neal is a significantly better **scorer** than Bogut. And he’s plainly a much better shooter and FT shooter.

      What the synergy numbers fail to take into account, as PeteyBrian notes, is selfishness, or lack thereof. Bogut has averaged a stellar 3.1 assists per 36 in each of the last two seasons, while O’Neal has managed a paltry 0.6 and 1.5. That could be at the heart of Bogut’s slightly-less-bad offensive plus-minus results. Or, since their offensive numbers are fairly comparable, it could just be small-sample noise. In the end, on team with Curry, Klay, and Lee, we don’t want **either** of these guys taking many shots. Bogut has the distinct virtue of realizing this fact, and playing accordingly.

      Obviously, I’m not going to go to war for Bogut’s offensive abilities. He’s a poor offensive player, even given his solid picks and ace passing skills. He may be well a worse offensive player than O’Neal. The main thing I disputed is your characterization of O’Neal as a “two-way player,” which is simply not borne out by any the recent evidence (setting aside cherry-picked one or two game samples). If you refuse to look at the plus-minus results or the lame assist totals, check the scoring efficiency: .504, .468, .535 true shooting% over the last three seasons. He’s a bad offensive player at this stage of his career, no matter how you slice it. He may be marginally better on that end than gimpy, mangled-armed Bogut, but that’s a very low bar.

      • Well, the bar is set low. But O’Neal is a cheap, emergency fill-in with a one year contract. Bogut, it is to be hoped, is on his last season.

        The stats could be used to show the team needs a better center who fits the talents of the club. And they could be used to show next season why neither should be on the court at critical moments of the game, say the closing moments of 4th Q, that there are—or should be—better alternatives.

        I’m not at all impressed with Bogut’s assists. He’s going to get assists when they run the offense through him, but that means assists are taken from the other effective passers, like Lee and Curry. Sometimes he gets assists because he can’t or won’t finish under the basket or drive on the pick and roll. At any rate, they don’t offset his offensive liabilities.

        Most, I want to see how a player performs with a specific team and certain type of offense, which overall stats won’t show. O’Neal may well be more suited for the Warriors—somewhat.

      • @Sleepy:

        1) I’m not “afraid” of RAPM, I just view it and all advanced stats as complete garbage. I’m curious why you restricted your examples to the top 3 players in the league.

        According to the guru of RAPM, Chris Anderson is the 11th best player in the league. Do you concur? Amir Johnson, who is looking for a job, is the 14th. Agree?

        Both are more valuable players than Stephen Curry, 20th. Right?

        Tiago Splitter is a better player than both Brook Lopez and David West. DeAndre Jordan, who is struggling to keep himself on the court, and is being desperately shopped, is the 40th best player in the league, on a par with Kobe Bryant. Right?

        http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2013.html

        2) As for RAPM not being able to tell Derek Fisher from Kobe Bryant WHEN THEY’RE PLAYING IN THE SAME UNIT, I’m relying on the GSoM guru Evanz:

        http://www.d3coder.com/thecity/advanced-stats-primer/

        Take it up with him.

        3) The stats I quoted are not “advanced,” regardless of what you and other statphreaks have done to confuse the term. Unlike PER, RAPM, WinShares and other snake oils, they are simple, unadulterated, unamalgamized, unreconstructed stats. They make no pretense of having meaning baked into them. You must supply the meaning yourself with your understanding of basketball.

        They are steak, and RAPM is sausage.

        4) Other past years in ONeal’s career are meaningless to me. Because he was INJURED.

        Last year he showed what he could do when healthy. And what he could do was significant, even in the context of a bad team.

        5) ONeal was 26th in the league last year in P&R efficiency, on a terrible team. Marc Gasol was 23rd. In what universe is that “horrible?”

        He was probably comparably ranked in postup efficiency, among true big men (removing guards and wings).

        6) Your team offensive ppp stats are devoid of context and thus mindless. First of all, I don’t care about past years when he was injured. Secondly, ONeal played with the SECOND UNIT. Are we to understand that the second unit should be as efficient as the first? That ONeal needs to be a better offensive player than Gortat to be valuable? That it didn’t matter whether he was playing with a reserve point guard instead of Dragic?

        And should an offense with ONeal in the middle be more efficient than a small ball offense? Ridiculous.

        With all due respect, I think you would appreciate basketball more if you relied a little less on stats, and a little more on watching and thinking.

        7) Passing ability is irrelevant to my discussion. What Stephen Curry and the Warriors have been missing MOST since Curry came into the league is a finisher in the middle. Only a finisher in the middle can help relieve the intense blitzes Curry receives on pick and roll, especially in the playoffs. Only a finisher in the middle can help Curry become the true superstar point guard that has been hidden from view by Joe Lacob and incompetent coaching for the better part of three seasons. See the opinions of Jeff van Gundy and Jim Barnett and Mitch Richmond I quoted in my blog post above, if you can’t remember what you watched in the playoffs: the Spurs completely strangling Curry and Thompson because Bogut didn’t need to be guarded.

        Bogut can pass but can’t shoot. Iggy can pass but can’t shoot. That means when they’re both on the floor at the same time, only three players need be guarded. The Warriors will be playing 3 on 5. That is not a recipe for success, as the commentators to the Spurs series noted.

        • I wanted to reply to this quote-
          “According to the guru of RAPM, Chris Anderson is the 11th best player in the league. Do you concur? Amir Johnson, who is looking for a job, is the 14th. Agree?”

          That is NOT what RAPM says. RAPM says, in their role and useage, they were that productive for those minutes. RAPM has traditionally looked highly on some clear 15-20 mpg role players who make positive impacts. It’s averaged over 100 posessions to get rid of useage, but you must always consider it.

          So RAPM says Birdman was insanely productive in his 12-15 mpg for Miami, in his role, next to who he played with (very compatible game w/ Lebron and shooters spacing).

          RAPM is NOT suggesting Birdman is now ready to play 35 mpg and be a 2nd option. That’s your conjecture of misunderstanding it.

          On the flipside, poor RAPM players like Monta ellis, it suggests to me, Monta is used to much and playing too big a role. He he could much more productive in a smaller role, like for ex. 07-08. That’s much different than say Kobe or even a better example, Durant who still show big to downright monstrous (in durant’s case) offensive impact with massive useage. Suggesting their roles are closer to correct.

          So yeah, all RAPM is telling me is Monta is not a guy who can be your top 2 offensive options, he’s not good enough, he’ll kill your team with bad shots, Durant can. And RAPM is saying Birdman as a bench big, is very productive when he’s on.

          • You seem to be suggesting that a player’s RAPM is sensitive to his teammates, usage and role. I happen to agree strongly with this, but I think RAPM gurus believe their stat is independent of those factors — that it objectively provides a true measure of a player’s worth. That is certainly how Sleepy used it.

            What does RAPM suggest to you about how ONeal will perform on the Warriors, in comparison with the Suns?

        • Two other points-

          to #7- Curry missing someone to pass to in middle in playoffs. Lee was hurt, he’s not the best at it, but he can do it. Iguodala can finish in traffic. Bogut was on one leg, a healthy bogut finishes stronger. Finally, and can’t be states, by middle of spurs series, Curry could barely move. Kills his game.

          @ Bogut and Iguodala, that’s hardly a worry. We’ll have 3 guys who can shoot, and we move ball unselfishly.

  131. As for those who question my comment that Bogut/Iggy lineups will struggle for offense — I intend to elaborate at length on this subject in a future post.

    But quite simply, ask yourself these questions:

    Did the Bogut, Lee, Barnes,Thompson, Curry lineup ever struggle for offense in the first and third quarters last year?

    Did the Bogut, Lee, Thompson, Curry, Jack lineup ever struggle for offense in the fourth quarter last year?

    Surely you remember that?

    Now substitute Iggy for Barnes or Jack and think about what will happen. Visualize.

    Do you remember that Harrison Barnes was guarded by the point guard throughout last years’ playoffs? Who will the opposing team’s point guard be hidden on going forward? That’s right, the non-shooter Iggy. Who will be guarding Curry and Thompson? The stoppers, in conjunction with the center. We already know who will be guarding Bogut: NO ONE.

    Substituting Iggy for Jack will help on defense, no doubt. But it will hurt on offense, particularly when Bogut is on the floor. Curry will be ABSOLUTELY SWARMED.

    By the way, someone above informed me that Iggy shot 53% from two last season. There could be no better example of a complete misapplication of a statistic. Here are some real stats, of Iggy’s efficiency in the half-court:

    Iso’s: 39%
    P%R ballhandler: 35%
    Postup: 38%
    Spotup: 33%
    Off screen: 39%

    That is the real truth, people. That 53% number? Think that had anything to do with fast break layups? I think he played for Denver last year, didn’t he?

    • Don’t underestimate Iguodala’s and Bogut’s impact on the overall outcome of the game.

      And overestimate Jack’s impact (as Monta Ellis’ impact before) on the overall outcome of games.

      Defense matters.

      Iguodala’s offensive numbers are every bit as good as Jack’s – just in different ways. Iggy definitely can’t shoot consistently but can finish better than anyone in the NBA not named LeBron.

      The W’s will likely close with Curry, Klay, and Iggy. Also three guards. And likely close with O’Neal who can shoot.

      Do you honestly think Iggy can’t finish off an opposing team’s PG (or 3rd or 4th defensive option?)? Iggy demolished Curry in the playoffs.

      And if Barnes plays the Stretch 4, the floor will be completely WIDE OPEN for the slashing Iggy to finish or assist.

      I’m not surprised the W’s played better without Lee in the playoffs. There’s something to this no one wants to talk about. That’s when terms like “glue” “chemistry” and “team guy” come into play in describing Lee’s impact to the bottom line.

      • Baloney. Bogut is a black hole on offense. Against the balanced San Antonio we saw this especially the last two games, when the hobbled Lee got pushed into service no one expected, about a dozen minutes each game when he shouldn’t have been playing at all. It was because San Antonio was shutting down the offense when Bogut was on the floor.

        We really don’t have any evidence to show how Lee would have played in the other games, do we? But we do have the rest of the season.

        • @rgg – Bogut – in games 1-4, surely didn’t hamper the W’s from winning. Game 1 – Jack/Curry had the meltdown in the last 4 minutes up 18 points (AND Bogut not in the game to close due to hack a Bogut)! The W’s won 2 of the next 3 games. Series tied 2-2, with the W’s handing Game 1 to the Spurs…

          The last two games of the Spurs series – Bogut’s ankle was done. Bogut ONLY played 20 minutes noticeably hobbled in each of games 5 and 6. Curry’s ankle was tweaked too for that matter. Lee had no business playing games 5 and 6 – he was a huge positive in “spirit” – huge negative in +/-.

          Who does a healthy Lee stop on the Spurs? Splitter? Diaw? Bonner?

          • Against a team that can’t shoot from the perimeter like Denver, Bogut was of use, especially in that ragged final game when Denver desperately charged the hoop.

            The question should be who do a healthy Lee and a decent two-way center or a sizable, versatile 4 stop? This hasn’t been tried yet.

    • Don’t you think that Iguodala will benefit from playing with better, more unselfish players and a more open floor in the same way that you expect Jermaine O’Neal will? How many of Iggy’s post ups were on a point guard? If teams hide their point guard on him would you not expect him to shoot better than 38%? How many of those spot ups were wide open looks? How many of his 3 point attempts were contested off the dribble? I don’t know the answer to those but it stands to reason that generally his jump shots will be lower degree of difficulty this year than in previous years, right?

      Give him the exact same shots that Harrison Barnes got last year and what would you expect him to make, more or less than Barnes did? I would expect as good or better shooting in pretty much every area of the game, and better playmaking and defense too.

      When he’s replacing Jack, he certainly won’t shoot as well from the outside, but he will definitely be able to finish better and get to the line better. It remains to be seen if this can make up for the downgrade in perimeter shooting from Jack, but I think that Iggy iso’d at the top against the other team’s 2nd or 3rd best perimeter defender can be effective in the late game.

      It would certainly help if he could manage to turn back the clock on his free throw shooting.

      • Iggy was frequently guarded by smaller players including point guards last year — hence the postups. Witness Curry guarding him in the playoffs. I don’t expect his post-up stats to improve, because he is simply wretched from mid-range.

        It’s not clear to me that the Warriors will space the floor better than the Nuggets did last year with Gallo at the four. Particularly if Iggy plays alongside Bogut and Lee.

        And it’s really not clear to me that Iggy will get significantly better looks this season than he did last year playing with the best team in the league post-allstar break, at the fastest pace in the league.

        Iggy brings some offense to the table, but those that think he can compare to Jack in shooting efficiency, ballhandling and passing are simply out of their minds with optimism. His defense sets him apart. His offense has been problematic. Particularly when he insists on shooting the ball in the fourth quarter, as he did in Philly.

        If Mark Jackson gets the lineups right, he can maximize the positive impact that Iggy can have.

        Not sure people realize my overall evaluation of the Warriors at this moment. I think they’re a top 4 team in the West, and will contend. That has a lot to do with the addition of Iggy. And also something to do with the addition of two centers who can shoot and score, who will make Iggy (and Stephen Curry) much more valuable than before.

        • I do realize you are pretty high on this team. And I also realize he can’t provide the shooting or court spacing that Jack did.

          You have interesting points on the way he was used last year, and I can’t refute them since I didn’t watch many Nuggets games, but my reasoning was this – they were a poor 3 point shooting team by percentage that played Andre Miller for a lot of minutes and Kenneth Faried even more. I figure those guys were choking the half-court spacing for him in a way that most lineups the Warriors will throw up this season would not do. And even when they did go small, there’s a big difference between closing out to Lawson/Brewer vs Klay/Steph. I still hope there will be more space for him this year.

  132. Barnes on speculation he might go to the bench:

    http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2013-07-22/harrison-barnes-golden-state-warriors-andre-iguodala-team-usa-minicamp?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    The media continue to get this story wrong. Iguodala will be the TWO. And if he is, that doesn’t mean that Thompson goes to the bench instead of Barnes. If Jackson gets it right, Thompson will start at his natural position, the three.

    • If Mark Jackson REALLY gets it right, Barnes will be STARTING at the stretch 4. Word from Jerry West is that Barnes is getting bigger.

      That starting 4 (Curry/Iggy/Klay/Barnes) will be unguardable offensively – even WITH a hobbled Bogut.

      Lee comes off the bench. Of course – this won’t happen.

      • 1. How can Barnes get bigger after only a month?

        2. Is bigger better? Was there nothing else West could have said about him, like he’s working on ball handling or his shots? What good is a bulked up Barnes?

        • In three months – May, June, July – with youth, heavy lifting, disciplined eating, genetics, and modern drugs – Harrison can get bigger.

          In the playoffs – Harrison Barnes ATE UP any PG AND PF the Nuggets and Spurs threw at him.

          Barnes’ kyptonite? Small Forwards! Lol!

          • He needs to improve his skill set, and that’s what I want to hear from West.

            Yes, he should really be able to drive against Tony Parker next season.

  133. Snippet from SI.com on Iguodala’s impact on his team’s defense.

    “…Denver rated as a top-five defense with Iguodala on the floor last season and a bottom-10 defense without him, in part because of his ability to tackle whatever defensive assignment the Nuggets required.

    If an opponent was too big for point guard Ty Lawson, too quick for forward Danilo Gallinari or even too versatile for power forward Kenneth Faried, Iguodala stepped in to control that matchup and alleviate pressure on the rest of Denver’s defense. The Nuggets’ freedom in manipulating defensive assignments is part of what opened up their flexibility overall, facilitating their frenetic style of play by making small-ball sets more tolerable on defense. This is the transformational power of a player as long, strong and relentless as Iguodala, and this is what Denver stands to lose without him averaging about 35 minutes as the team’s defensive fulcrum.”

    http://nba.si.com/2013/07/24/denver-nuggets-offseason-javale-mcgee-ty-lawson/

    • I certainly understand Iggy’s value on defense, and I think everyone else does also. He obviously fills a huge hole in the Warriors lineup, and will be hugely valuable alongside Curry, Thompson and Lee.

      My discussion concerns offense. And in particular, the optimization of this Warriors roster, through playing the correct combinations of players.

      I made the point that the acquisition of ONeal and Speights will make Iggy a much more valuable player than he would be with the Warriors limited to the non-shooters Bogut and Ezeli in the middle. I stand by that.

      And I have faith in Mark Jackson to get it right.

      • On the contrare.

        Iguodala has never played with shooters anywhere near Curry or Klay’s ilk.

        Jack so a massive increase in offensive efficiency and production with GSW (relative to his previous stops) when he was with both of them. If you look at lineups with 1 it takes a hit, without either, it’s downright awful.

        In many ways it was curry and Klay’s spacing and off-ball movement which made Jack better, not vice versa. Iguodala is a better ball handler and passer than Jack, he’ll thrive.

        Myers, Curry and Jackson all talk about his playmaking which makes me think, a lot of sets we ran with Jack, Iguodala will run, and we’ll utilize a lot of point forward sets. Both great things. And we can do this without giving up defense for once.

        Expecting Iguodala to have a career high in assists. I’d expect him to average 12/6/6 easy, probably more points.

        • I’m optimistic that you are right about this, but the key will be Iggy’s ability to limit his turnovers if he handles the ball as much as Jack did. Jack didn’t have the best ball security either, but it’s possible Iggy’s will be worse with this change in usage.

          Then he really needs to get his free throw % back up. Jack is an incredible mid range shooter, and there’s no way that Iggy will match him there. But if Iggy takes his spread floor ISOs all the way to the hoop he will finish well and draw fouls. As long as he makes his free throws reasonably well he can be as efficient or more so than Jack was.

          • Iguodala has a career turnover rate of 14.9% and averages 2.3 per 36. Jack’s career is 16.3% (though 14.3% last year) and 2.5 per 36.

            Both have almost identical career useage rates.

          • When I said usage, I meant in the strategic sense not the usage rate sense. How were those possessions used for each player? Was that 16% largely due to initiating the offense or was Iggy using lots of those possessions by finishing fast breaks and off ball cuts and the like? I know it’s a combination of both, but I don’t know the ratios and I don’t know how to find out.

            I know he’s a good initiator for a wing, but it is still my impression that if Iguodala initiates the offense as much as Jack did last year, it will be the most he has ever had the ball in his hands. So just saying the possibility is there that he will turn the ball over more than he has done in the past, and that could make him more turnover prone than Jack was in the same type of sets.

        • I’m with tafkasam on on this. Playing alongside Curry and Thompson made Jack more effective. Opponents were (relatively) happy to leave him open when the alternatives were so deadly. We’ll see that same effect on Iggy’s game. He’ll be liberated. I think Iggy himself sees that, and I believe it’s the reason he chose to play with the Warriors.

          For the Ws part, Jack’s success with the Ws may have been what convinced team management to replace Jack with a super-Jack. Iggy and Jack have similar career shooting percentages (Iggy .460, Jack .448, neither great at 3s), assists (Iggy 4.9, Jack 4.4), and turnovers (Iggy 2.4, Jack 1.9), all with fewer minutes for Jack, but:

          – Shot selection favors Iguodala – he takes few midrange shots but is an excellent finisher at the rim, unlike Jack.
          – Iggy is 6’6″, Jack 6’3″
          – Iggy rebounds! 5.8/game vs. Jack’s 2.8

          And Iggy’s level of athleticism and speed is far superior to Jarrett Jack’s. Jack couldn’t lead a fast break to save his life. He simply did not have the foot speed. Fast breaks are Iggy’s metier.

          And that’s just on offense. On D, there’s no comparison. Jack is average at best, Iggy is among the top 5 in the league in wing defense.

          Playing Iggy with Bogut is a tough one. Feltie’s right, the Bogut we saw this last season is not a game finisher. He rarely closed out games, and the Ws won more often with Lee/Landry instead. Bogut started most of the games he suited up for, and he completely brutalized most of the post players he faced (an excellent thing in its own right), but his lack of O was a liability in crunch time.

          It seems to me that Feltie’s also correct that, more often than not, Bogut’s liabilities were a detriment to the overall team attack. I lost count of the number of times the Ws fell behind in the first Q while playing Bogut but before Jack even made an appearance in the game.

          So… if I’m following Felt’s reasoning here, adding even a Super-Jack to the team’s starting lineup doesn’t solve the 1st-Q-deficit problem the Ws dealt with all last season. If anything, a Jack or even a Super-Jack could only make things worse, because as a starter, that’s one fewer outside shooting threat.

          So it raises some interesting Qs. We’ve been assuming Bogut will start. Maybe he won’t. Starting a game with a 5-shooter lineup could be deadly.

          We’ve been assuming Bogut’s role will be the same next season as last. But maybe next season Bogut’s job on O is to stand in the corner until the shot goes up. That would work. Oh yes.

          We’ve been assuming Iggy will start. Maybe not. Bringing a Super-Jack off the bench could be pretty freakin’ awesome.

          It seems to me the real issue here isn’t whether Iggy+Bogut is a good combination, it’s whether Coach Jackson has the insight, and the freedom, to do what works regardless of players’ salaries. If Jackson has to continue the “he’s cost us so he must be played” routine of last year (think Barnes over Rush and Jefferson), then the Ws could start every game next season with a first quarter deficit.

          But if Jackson doesn’t have to play that game, next season’s Ws could be awfully damn scary. Even if Iggy and Bogut spend no more time on the floor together than Jack and Bogut did. Or maybe especially if that’s the case.

          • warriorsablaze

            Trying to gather any intel on Bogut using last year is pointless. He was no detriment to the offense for most of the playoffs. He isn’t going to be a big time post scorer, but he is going to set ridiculously monster screens up top, make great passes, and clean up the garbage down low. The question completely lands on health. If Felt is correct and it’s a degenerative condition, well, we’ll probably see short spurts of Bogut dominating and a lot of O’Neal filling in the gaps. If relative health is there for a majority of the season, I think some posters are going to have to give up on their Bogut-bashing activities. He may not finish games due to the FT % issue, but he’s going to impact the rest of the game as much as any one else on the roster.

      • geraldmcgrew

        “I have faith in Mark Jackson to get it right.”

        I wish I had your faith. But I certainly hope to aquire it. My lack of it is only thing holding me back from being all in. Hoping this is the year.

        • speaking of faith, a SA fan on one of the blogs made a very sympathetic comment. he hoped GS would never again advance in the postseason with jackson coaching, so he’d be spared the prayer huddles and invocations of the holy spirit and the like getting on the game broadcasts. to help preserve our amerikan way of life, jackson should not reach the conference finals or further.

          • Faith-based leadership would be unacceptable in every one of the “500 other businesses” Lacob says he built. It makes for an unfair work environment for those of other faiths. I am surprised that team management permits it. I wonder what they’d do if Jackson were a Druid.

  134. Don Nelson always experimented to find the best starting line-up and combination of players who should be on the court. Jackson less so. I would expect Jackson early on to decide who will be starting and who will be coming off the bench. The Warriors should also experiment by having different players play different positions in order to see the best fit.

    Felty, the stats that you provide for Iggy amply demonstrates for him to be successful offensively, the Warriors need to run. If Jackson plays a half court offense than not only will Iggy’s offense falter, but so will virtually every other Warrior player, and the potential success of the team will be harmed as well.

    It seems clear that O’Neal should start and play the fourth quarter. Jackson starting Bogut and Iggy, and playing a half court offense is a recipe’ for disaster.

    The real battle should be whether Bogut or Speights is a better back-up at
    center.

    The Warriors faltered badly by not signing Clark. First bad move since the Warriors traded away Biedrins and Jefferson.

    The Warriors still need a proven back up SG if Bazemore fails to eliminate his rate of turnovers, as well as a 3 point shooting PF, as Green is simply not dependable.

    • Whenever I try to have good thoughts about Lacob, he turns up saying something like this:

      “There are opponents, though small in number. Neighbors. Of course. We are listening to their objections and attempting to address them as possible. Note that we must do what is best for the city as a whole with respect to the project, not merely address some specific personal agendas that may not be in concert with the views of the collective.

      “We have a right and, potentially a mandate, to conduct our business in a manner which most positively impacts all of our fans, fans that are equally distributed throughout the Bay.

      “Special interest groups and isolated individuals seem to have an agenda regarding us.”

      Ugh.

      • must thank the great Profit Joseph for helping me continue to oppose him in good conscience. entertaining consumers for profit gives him some divine right and mandate to appropriate public resources, and he claims to speak for some ‘collective.’ sure, they’re called the profit reapers and exploiters. did he write his own lines ? sounds inspired by what William Safire produced for Spiro Agnew.

        • It’s those pesky neighbors. If the city could get rid of them and all the non-season ticket holders, San Francisco would be a great place to live.

          It amazes me that anyone could say anything like this without irony or reservation.

      • “Special interest groups and isolated individuals seem to have an agenda regarding us.”

        Certainly. The Great Pier Giveaway is a very controversial issue for a number of very good reasons. Public financing of private corporations deserves serious debate, not just locally but nationwide. The actual benefits a host city receives from pro sports teams is highly questionable. These are very serious concerns.

        Can’t blame Lacob for trying to trivialize the opposition’s concerns. His job is to make the project happen, not debate the merits. But Lacob’s only constituents are his investors, and “special interest groups” are the city government’s constituents. A serious effort to balance the needs of all SF residents should involve years of discussion, not weeks. It’s only right.

        • Yes, the W’s ownership doesn’t care about what would be the best project site location for the City and it’s residents – just about the best location for his group.

          An Environmental Impact Report should look at feasible site location alternatives and potential impacts.

          If Lacob can mitigate impacts related to parking for all those 15,000 fans, I’d be all for the Pier 30-32 location. BART, Muni/light rail, and CalTrans – are great, but many rich fans will still drive their luxury vehicles there, no matter how much you charge for parking.

          Visual impacts – are par for the course in a dense city – and more subjective – in the eye of the beholder…

  135. geraldmcgrew

    Rick Carlisle via text message (ESPN.com) on Monta:
    “Possibly the fastest player ever to wear a Mavs uniform. Scores, makes plays and is great in transition. We consider him a unique talent and look forward to integrating him into our team.”

    • the coach is getting one of his critical roster additions primed. he judiciously uses the word ‘possibly’. oui, ellis possibly could win a footrace, or dribble faster in a straight line, than nash in his prime. applying that speed to effective team hoops plays (rarely in continuous straight lines) is rather different. the all star skills competition places a premium on timed speed and accuracy of execution in basic hoops plays with the ball. nash won it twice, and curry has won it as well. ellis is certainly as unique as either.

  136. Lacob translation: Neighbors hate the location because project will create complete traffic bottleneck and kill the environment, while the rest of the city wii incur no hardship.

    • Besides the neighborhoods objecting:

      The City is a trustee for the pier, not its owner. There’s a serious question whether they have the legal right to give it away. This must be resolved in court before a deal can be signed with the Warriors.

      There are at least half a dozen agencies, from local to federal, that would need to pass approval on the arena’s environmental impact. To my knowledge, the EPA-required Environmental Impact Report has not been completed yet, and construction cannot start without one. And the EIR can’t be completed until construction plans are completed. And construction plans can’t be completed until the design is finalized. etc., etc.

      It’s highly unlikely that The City will make the major infrastructure improvements (streets, freeways, even plumbing) required for the arena without state and/or federal assistance. That’s several more agencies who would be involved in the arena decision.

      Unless The City already owns all the surrounding property, it will need to buy or condemn property for enough parking. Meanwhile, other proposed sites (like the Giants stadium area) already have sufficient parking.

      The City announced the deal without opening bidding to other interests. That will almost certainly be challenged in court by other developers.

      And the list of obstacles goes on, and on…

      In Sacramento, Ranadive got a deal that was initially put together for the Maloofs. The city had started work on the proposal 5 years ago. That’s how long this kind of stuff takes.

      Lacob could be long retired before the groundbreaking on his bayside arena.

      • If an Environmental Impact Report (EIR) is completed, different site alternatives and potential impacts will be analyzed…

        I’m all for a downtown stadium and that location would be absolutely stunning, but all 15,000 fans won’t be taking BART or Muni there. Having worked in downtown SF for many years, I just can’t visualize a downtown stadium on Piers 30-32 without parking.

        Where will fans park???

        Something tells me the Giants available site location will once again become a viable, reasonable alternative for many reasons.

      • since the mid-nineteenth century, when the region started to attract immigration from east of the rockies and the eastern side of the Pacific (indentured labor from southeastern China), and continuing for a hundred years, the area of SF bay shrank by 240 square miles from diking, fill-ins, pave-overs. that’s why the SF Bay Conservation and Development Commission was established by state mandate in the mid-60s. the Profit Joseph has new england origins, with his adolescence spent in southern calif, and from his comments about the SFBCDC he’d be content if they didn’t exist.

        the rhetoric he applies would be comical, attempting to marginalize the commission with the label ‘geopolitical’ and miffed that oaktown interests might get an audience, but combined with his clumsy attempt to portray himself as some community benefactor only exposes his amoral core.

        here’s one ‘geopolitical’ problem the commission is seriously examining that should completely veto any expansion/construction on the shoreline — the likelihood that the bay will re-expand due to global warming. the volume of roadways adjacent to the water should be reduced, not expanded. the plans for corporate suites, hotels and retail are aimed to attract business and leisure tourists, and if they’re as monied as lacob wants, and come from the u.s., the majority will rent cars.

        lacob would like us to believe SF is behind his project because the current mayor’s faction is in his pocket. but there’s another ‘geopolitical’ factor that many SF politicos will find troublesome — rates in the municipal bond market will make it tougher for cities to raise funds by that means. they’ll simply have to be selective about borrowing money. the city council of NY just served Dolan and MSG notice that they’ll be evicted in twenty years so Penn station (right under msg) can be renovated and expanded as a public transportation hub. maybe SF will also acknowledge that the needs of the many outweigh those of the few.

    • Maybe they could tow in barges for parking. Guber, however, I understand has plans to beam fans in.

      The mayor and his cohorts are probably responsible for indulging Lacob in his fantasies.

    • geraldmcgrew

      In other news…

      “It’s a Great Life!” Says Man With Enough Money and Time to Hang Out In Vegas Watching Basketball in July

      “So many people are suffering. I mean, we’re in a depression….not as bad as the one in the 30s, but worse than the one in the 70s. But I’m doing fine. I love basketball and I love being able to watch it year round. My girlfriend doesn’t like it quite as much as me so she spends part of the time by the pool, part of it with me watching. Then we go out and party! And the bars never close here! I’m so lucky.”

  137. Lacob has a microphone so he can say anything he wants about opponents of his waterfront arena, but before the project is a go, he’s going to have to go public with all the terms of the deal. It’s been over a year since the announcement, but other than press releases, here’s the total of all the info SF has published on the project:

    http://sfgov3.org/index.aspx?page=3987

    http://sfgov3.org/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=3446

    That is not sufficient. SF residents have a right to hard information about the project, not just propaganda.

  138. Another rotten stadium deal, this time in D.C.:

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/07/25/dc_united_stadium_deal_better_than_most_still_pretty_rotten.html

    Spend 5 minutes with Google and you can find dozens more awful stadium deals, most of them even worse than the above.

    Politicians love new stadiums, they’re good for election results. But the reality is that in most cases, host cities end up paying hard dollars for poorly defined, non-guaranteed benefits. For example, in the article above, the gift D.C. is giving a soccer team WILL NOT pay back the city at all unless the soccer team turns a profit.

    Nothing in the world is more malleable than profit. Want to show zero profit so you can pay zero taxes? No problem. Increase your payroll, or advertising budget. Find some more capital depreciation – it’s easy to do when you’re building a stadium.

    Any politician who says a pro sports franchise is a public benefit should have to prove it with hard numbers. Because in hard dollars, the majority of stadium deals in this country end up costing their host cities a whole lot. Adding a few part-time minimum-wage jobs does not return the city’s investment.

  139. My heavens. Does it sound like I’m against a new San Francisco waterfront stadium for the Warriors? I’m not. I am against getting ripped off.

    As a basketball fan, I’m willing to be convinced that giving away public assets to billionaires does indeed improve the quality of life for the majority of normal citizens. I just need a little evidence, that’s all. Something, anything. Anything at all.

    If the big deal makers are so smart, they oughta be able to come up with SOMETHING that even hints that “free money for billionaires” is a public benefit.

    Hey, Joe Lacob, everyone thinks your new arena idea is cool. We fans want to see it happen.

    It ain’t gonna happen with bull. We “little people” aren’t stupid enough to think that you getting richer means we somehow get enriched. Ya gotta come up with some numbers that “prove” it.

    Something, anything. We’ve all heard enough sales pitches to develop a bull filter. Joe, get busy, alright?

    • Spot on. Like the SF Giants can be successful privately funding their stadium, the SF Warriors need to do the same.

      • I don’t know. Like the politicians say, it ain’t my money.

        If everyone in SF is enriched by the Warriors, I don’t care if Lacob gets richer too. If he’s the only beneficiary of a new arena, though, the city should spend all that Warriors money on things like the school system, public safety, transportation, and the million other things only the city government can provide.

        • I’m all for private funding of the facility – since SF is a marquee city not necessarily begging for the new business like a smaller market team like Sacramento would.

          Locating the new arena in downtown SF will definitely have a positive impact the local economy with design/construction/jobs of the site, and W’s fans would dine, drink/party, catch taxi’s/bus/rail/Muni/ferry/limos, rent cars, illegally park/ticket revenue, hotels, tours, and shop. Somewhere there’s a multiplier that someone’s developed to quantify/estimate the economic impact of such a project.

          • PB, yes, you’ve just summarized the usual “soft dollars” argument that teams always promote. There has to be some truth to it, but:

            a) Those things do not pay back city government. In Sacramento, the Maloofs walked away from a $20M city loan that was to be paid back from operating profit, not revenue and not even from the profit they made from the sale of the franchise. The Maloofs’ accountants never calculated an operating profit for the team. The city was left holding the bag. Those are hard dollars. Possible commercial benefits, soft dollars, may or may not have made that $20M a good investment for the citizens of Sacramento, in a roundabout way, but it’s not obvious enough to record on the city’s balance sheet, like, for example, the rent the Ws currently pay the Oakland Coliseum Authority.

            b) If a privately owned occasional-use arena does pay back a city indirectly, wouldn’t a huge full-time office complex pay back even more? It would create far more (and better) jobs, and it would draw people to the city daily, not just on game days. Or how about adding $100M to the city’s school budget, to make SF the best school system in the world? That would also create full-time jobs and lots of ancillary revenue for San Francisco, deliver far more public benefit than a sports franchise, it’s something only the city can do, and all the money would go directly to “the people,” not indirectly to them through profiteers. Heck, the city could even rebuild the pier to make it a viable commercial pier, to bring shipping back to SF. Commercial piers operate round-the-clock, not twice a week.

            I’m not against Lacob’s SF arena. No one even knows the terms of the deal at this point, so there are no cost figures. My point is that any city investment should be weighed against other alternatives, and there are many alternatives with a guaranteed on-the-books payback, something no one claims for arenas.

            Unless Lacob can PROVE that the arena is the city’s best investment, he shouldn’t get the deal. If he can prove it, then fine, go for it. It would be a cool place to watch a Warriors game.