Warriors 112 Wizards 96: Dominance

This Warriors road spanking of the Wizards is what NBA dominance looks like. Now that Iggy has returned, the Warriors are once again the best team in the Western Conference, for all the reasons I predicted they would be before the season started.

Provided: That Iggy returns to full health.

And provided: That Joe Lacob steps up, opens his moth-eaten wallet, and does his job.


Andrew Bogut: It is a frequent theme of this blog, nay, the central theme, that Head Coach is the most important position on any basketball team. That the coach is central to the success or failure of the team (unless you’re given Phil Jackson’s teams). But also, that the coach is central to the success or failure of each individual player. By playing him in the wrong system, a coach can make a great player look bad; and by playing him in the right system, a coach can make a mediocre or limited player look great.

Never has this point been illustrated better than by what’s currently going on with Andrew Bogut. Bogut is an extremely limited offensive player, who has suddenly started to look great on the offensive end. Has he suddenly become a better player?

No, Mark Jackson has suddenly become a better coach. Here’s what’s going on:

  1. No more postups. Can you remember the last post up that Bogut was given? Neither can I. And for good reason: he’s wretchedly inefficient at them.
  2. On the move. Instead, Bogut is getting the ball, and all of his baskets, on the move. Cutting without the ball. Alley-oops. Pick and roll. Making himself available when his man cheats.
  3. The Curry/Lee Pick and Roll: This play was a real struggle to start the season, with Bogut on the floor. The problem was that no matter how badly Lee beat his own man, Bogut’s man was waiting under the basket for him to challenge or block his shot. What we’ve seen in the last two games, though, is Lee hitting the cutting Bogut with bounce passes before this can happen. For dunks.
  4. Finishing his own Pick and Roll: Although I’m certain Mark Jackson insisted on this change, here Bogut deserves a share of the credit. Too often in last year’s playoffs and to start this season, Bogut simply did not want to look at the rim in the pick and roll. In fact, he very often didn’t even want to roll. But even when he did, he played hot potato with the ball, looking to pass it as soon as he caught it. Now, in the last few games, we have suddently seen Bogut start to roll aggressively, and throw up some sort of shot near the basket. (And many of these floaters have actually gone in. But whether they go in at a high percentage or not, Bogut must keep taking these shots. It is essential that his offense be respected if the Warriors are to break the Curry blitz.)

Hit him on the move. This is how you use a highly intelligent big man with limited range. This is how you take advantage of having the best passing team in the NBA. This is how you make Andrew Bogut an offensive contributor, rather than a millstone.

Bogut is playing like a legitimate All-Star right now. One wonders whether he would be an actual All-Star this season, if Mark Jackson had figured this out just a little bit sooner.

I hope his calf strain doesn’t return.

David Lee: 21-11-6, ho hum.

David Lee is quite possibly one of the greatest offensive big men who has ever lived. He is a perfect offensive player.

By perfect, I don’t mean just the obvious things, like shooting and finishing ability. I also mean all of the myriad little things that go into being a perfect offensive player, that “the majority of Warriors fans” either take for granted, or are completely unable to appreciate. Let me see how far I can get with a list:

  • Showing up every night on the road: Just to mention something that wasn’t true of Chris Webber nor many Hall of Fame big men, not to mention 95% of the big men currently in the NBA.
  • Understands all of the plays, and runs them perfectly: also untrue of 95% of players, and 99.9% of big men.
  • Fulfills whatever role the coach asks of him without complaint, no matter how idiotic and insulting. Now we’re up to the second decimal point.
  • Great hands. Is that typical of NBA big men?
  • Great handle, going both directions. Probably the best handle in the league among big men.
  • Great court vision.
  • Phenomenal passing ability: Take another look at Curry’s off-the-backboard alley-oop to Bogut, and notice where Lee’s no-look backwards flip to Curry hit him. Right on the hands, right at the nose, ready to be shot.
  • Utterly unselfish.
  • Fabulous decision-maker. Whether that decision has to do with moving without the ball, setting a screen, shooting versus passing, shooting versus driving, going for the offensive rebound, Lee does the right thing, at the right time, more than any other big man I have ever had the pleasure to watch.
  • Chemistry.

The Warriors’ great chemistry is something that is being increasingly mentioned by the broadcasters and media. But what no one seems willing to recognize or mention is just how important David Lee is to that chemistry. He is the ultimate facilitator, the ultimate glue guy, as well as the guy who is leading the NBA in points in the paint.

In fact, the Warriors media seem to have great difficulty in even understanding what creates great chemistry on basketball teams. Most of these luminaries fully expected, and openly desired, for Harrison Barnes to supplant David Lee at power forward this season. Putting aside the obvious absurdity of thinking Barnes has the size, strength and will to bang with frontline fours, just take a moment to consider what that would have done to the Warriors’ team chemistry. What happened to the Warriors’ offense when Iguodala got hurt, and Barnes took his place in the lineup?

It fell off a cliff.

Why? Not shooting, not driving ability, not athleticism. It was ballhandling, passing ability, decision-making, IQ. Intangibles.

Chemistry. That’s what the great players bring. Players like David Lee.

Anyway, that’s enough of that. All this stuff just bores the pants off Warriors fans. They like dunks, and short-sleeved jersey models. Let’s get to the stuff that really matters.

Did you happen to notice that Lee held Trevor Booker to 6 rebounds, while shortening his night? Booker got 19 and 13 rebounds in his two previous games.

Anyone notice that besides me?

I didn’t think so.

Klay Thompson: 26 points on 14 shots. Not a lot of players around the league, or indeed in league history, are capable of that sort of efficiency on a regular basis.

People like to mention Bradley Beal in the same breath as him.

Um, no.

Stephen Curry: I think he intended to bank that pass. What did he say about it?

We are so blessed to be able to watch this guy play.

The Bench: Joe Lacob, do your job.


270 Responses to Warriors 112 Wizards 96: Dominance

  1. I was waiting for Lee to cutting Bogut pass for years, noticing when you mentioned Lee getting blocked by Bogut’s men, for, surely, that would mean that Bogut is left unguarded and with Lee being a passer he is, why not. Probably coaching directives to go through walls.
    Easier to ballet your way through, ain’t it?
    Lee been balling, and rightly you sing praises, for to make quick decisions in a flow of a game is a tremendous skill. Barnes seems to be picking it up as well, less dribbling – either shoot, drive or pass out and be ready to relocate for cutting or spot up three. Hopefelly, that is not accidental.
    Yes, bench upgrade through BPG, would do wonders, for our bench can’t (make) play without starters and jackson seems to be all in with that kind of substitution pattern. Not that he has many options at playmaking without playing curry 48 minutes.

  2. Thanks, Feltbot.

    Lee came into camp leaner this year. Has he picked up a step? It looks that way.

    Someone correct me, but as I recall the stat on the bench is that it’s the worst scoring unit since 1971. But there are usable players in Speights, Green, and Barnes, in Barnes’ case, if someone can set him up. Douglas was impressive in the close loss to the Spurs, when he got extended time. A good backup guard should help bring them out.

    No one predicted Iguodala would have this much effect on offense.

    Well, almost no one.

  3. Anybody have an opinion of the Bayless/Memphis trade for Lee/Celtics? It is discussed here:


    According to the piece the reasons were in part financial—the Memphis owner has been cutting costs. But also, according to Hollinger’s analysis, Lee had better metrics (but Lee is a better shooter). Bayless did do well in the playoffs, however.

    Needless to say, I’m skeptical of Hollinger’s metrics and am curious what effects they’ve had.

    The article discusses other low budget deals that have been made to shore up guards.

  4. cosmicballoon

    The Santa Cruz Warriors picked up the contract of Dominic McGuire over the weekend. I wonder if he still has that defensive tenacity that he provided for Golden State several years ago. An even bigger question is if Jackson will give him a chance.

    • warriorsablaze

      Why would need ANOTHER one-way player off the bench? Bench players often are one way players, but if we’re gonna go that way, it needs to be someone who can create or finish some offense.

      • cosmicballoon

        Wab, I think it would not be ANOTHER, rather ‘instead of.’ Adding McGuire in Oakland would mean releasing someone else. Maybe the writing is on the wall for Basemore?

        It’s obvious that the top seven players are set, Curry, Klay, Iggy, Lee, Bogut, Green and Barnes. Beyond that, Speights has contributed at times and O’Neil is on the shelf.

        The remaining roster spots are filled by guys who are not contributing to this team, and changing out parts might not be a bad thing, along with adding a backup point guard.

        • warriorsablaze

          As bad as Baze has been (mostly a function of being played out of position), he’s still more effective and has far more offensive upside than Dom. Defense is not the problem for our bench, so Dom is the opposite of who we should be looking at.

    • the teams will shortly be able to sign players to ten day contracts. if a rotation player gets injured or hurt and has to miss more than a game or two, the location of their d-league team is convenient for temporary help. there’s only one end of bench guy, bazemore, who does not have a guaranteed contract, and his becomes guaranteed in about a week if he’s not waived, and one other open roster spot. whose minutes would McGuire take, anyway, if not bazemore’s ?

    • One beautiful thing about Dom is that he wouldn’t tempt MJ to play him at the point. Presumably.

      • warriorsablaze

        I feel like I remember Dom doing some primary ball-handling while he was here.

        I like Dom, but what our bench needs is a Nate-Rob type who can score and handle the ball so Douglas/Baze can move to the 2 and Barnes won’t be forced into silly post-up iso’s and other nonsense.

        • – Jackson did use McGuire at point forward some. MJ’s got more experience now.

          – Dom is not the answer to what ails the Ws 2nd team. Green might actually be a better defender, and he’s a more well-rounded player overall.

          – Still, I like Dom a lot. He’s the only Warrior who has ever really “handled” Blake Griffin:


          Not that I think an “inadvertent” punch to the face is a great basketball move, but I’ll admit that Dom decking Griffin was a guilty pleasure.

          • cosmicballoon

            Imagine a lineup of Iggy, Green, Basemore, McGuire and Bogut for a moment. Teams would be quaking in their boots when trying to score in the half court.

            I think it’s fair to say that this lineup couldn’t score, but oh my, the defense would be glorious.

        • I agree 100 percent – Nate Robinson would give the 2nd unit a huge scoring boost… And Nate and the Ws have been together before (good/bad)… I don’t see why he wouldn’t be available for much…

          I’m convinced T. Douglas and Bazemore are SGs. They can’t create much for themselves or others. Nate can. And the 2nd unit has good defensive players, but limited offensive players.

  5. Another 17 dimes for Marshall. The difference here, however, may be that D’Antoni is trying to develop an offense. And when you think about it, D’Antoni should get coach of the year, when you consider what he’s done with the roster he’s had.

    To clarify, McGuire is with the Santa Cruz Warriors, not the Oakland roster, right?

    My son has been recruiting and sent me these links:


  6. “David Lee is the greatest offensive big man who ever lived?” LOL!

    David Lee is only the 2nd most important big man, and the 4th or 5th most important player – on his own team – after Curry, Bogut, Iguodala, and Thompson in this order.

    Stephen Curry is this team’s most valuable player period. The fact that the NBA coaches royally screwed up – and selected a more than deserving David Lee over Stephen Curry – was an obvious mistake in my mind.

    Andrew Bogut is the most important big man on the W’s and is returning to form. Because he’s HEALTHIER.

    Should Stephen Curry go down (to an injury)? The W’s season is essentially over.

    Andrew Bogut goes down? First round playoff exit is all but assured.

    David Lee goes down? The W’s postseason run won’t change much. Barnes and Green will fill-in at PF and open the floor even more than with Lee.

    • So Feltbot may have been overly excited with his Dlee praise but hands down Lee is easily a top 3 PF in the league and by far the sec best player on the team. Sec only to SCurry. Just look at his stats during these 9 game win streak. I know Bogut lovers wanna give him undue credit but to say he’s the best big on this team is disingenuous. A teams best anything should help on offense, keep defenses honest, shouldn’t be foul prone, and match his opposing big. Bogut is seriously lacking in all. Sorry. He’s the 43rd best big behind Lee and a healthy JON.

  7. This site might be the only place that would entertain this conclusion. If the Warriors remain a strongly competitive team with playoff aspirations, it won’t be because they acquired a physical center like Bogut, but because they finally have a starting lineup and, hopefully now, a plan that can make some use of him.

    What we saw in Washington and will see tonight is that teams that load up the front court with big men and tack on perimeter guards to feed them—this was the Warrior plan originally, no?—are inflexible and have limited success.

  8. We see the wisdom of Meyers (I assume Simmons is paraphrasing him):

    “Some of it is a little more obscure, like the importance of Bogut’s communication on defense and how his screens and ball movement on offense free up open shots for Stephen Curry and Klay Thompson.”


  9. cosmicballoon

    Mark Jackson’s misuse of the bench has cost the Warriors second “unit.”

    The en-mass substitution patterns he has used have hurt any chance that the Warriors could develop a decent backup for Curry. Looking at 82 Games neither Douglas nor Nedovic have have played with the starting unit for any significant amount of time. For example, Douglas running point with Thompson, Iggy, Lee and Bogut (or Speights) on the floor might yield a different result than simply tossing Douglas out there with the end of the bench. According to 82 games, Douglas is a 0 +/- when played with that lineup (11 minutes this season).

    Douglas is a decent player, and if surrounded by other players who know what they are doing, would probably be a serviceable backup PG. In fact, when added to the starting lineup, he blew up for 21 points against San Antonio on Nov. 8. Go figure.

    In my opinion, Douglas could be a backup point guard if Jackson would be willing to get him in for 12-15 minutes per game, mostly with the starting unit.

    • it has been my contention, after iguodala’s injury exposed the preacher’s shortcomings, that coherent player development departed with Malone. the core of the roster except for barnes are all guys who developed and coached themselves, guided by parents and/or good college coaches (currry, green). in Lee’s interviews during the slump and after his revival, it’s apparent he coached himself through it. last season the preacher had two polished, seasoned vets as his principal reserves and Malone on the bench ; this season after losing O’Neal, it’s barnes, green, speights, with barnes’ and bazemore’s development going sideways.

      going back the the owner’s original coaching recruitment and interviews, budenholzer turned him down. SA has been the model of player development without access to lottery picks in the draft. when Lin played in the d-league as a rookie, his coach was E.Musselman, who helped him establish his direction. when the woeyr rookies go down to s.cruz, it’s kirk lacob in charge.

    • Have you seen Douglas play? Are you aware Douglas was once a starter and failed miserably in that role. The notion that somehow he’ll suddenly morph into a better pg if he plays with Curry or the starters is puzzling to say the least. The guy is horrible, Lacob and his cohorts are idiots for signing a a third tier pg to be our main bupg.

      • cosmicballoon

        Actually, anyone who gets plugged in with Thompson, Iggy, Lee and Bogut in a reserve pg role will probably play well. When Curry comes off the court, Klay becomes the first option with Lee taking second fiddle. Those two can continue to run P&R with Iggy helping facilitate everything else.

        Douglas, or whoever comes it at PG, just needs to play defense and hit spot up threes when played with the other starters. And Douglas’s shooting over his career has me confident that he can hit open three pointers.

        Douglas was drafted in 2009. He has started 30 games in his entire NBA career, and no more than 12 in one season. All indications are that he works hard and is a team player. I think he can be a backup point guard when surrounded by decent players, not the end of the Warriors bench (because they are the least cohesive group of 5 players I have ever seen in the NBA).

  10. The fact that Douglas and “0” plus-minus when playing with the first team simply means the Warriors did not outscore nor were outscored by their opponents with Douglas playing with the first team. This is an indication that Douglas is a huge drag on the first team as the Warriors by far outscore their opponents with the other four starters on the court.
    Contrary to popular belief is not much as a defender nor given the fact that he doesn’t shoot much when on the court makes his presence in most games a non-factor.

    • cosmicballoon

      Barnes is -50 in 260 minutes when playing with the starters in place of Iggy. He received an ample opportunity and basically blew it. Douglas, on the other hand, has not received ample minutes this season to see what he can do. He is a plus defender and given the chance, I believe can take on 15 minutes per game as a point guard with first unit players without losing a lead.

      The reasoning is that Curry absolutely needs a lighter workload or he will break down heading into the playoffs.

      • cosmicballoon

        With this concept in mind, Bazemore should also be playing with the first unit, at SG when Thompson is out of the game.

        I don’t quite understand Jackson’s en-mass substitution patterns, especially early in the season. They certainly haven’t improved the bench production overall.

  11. Greatly looking forward to my first real look at the Greek Freak. I went out on a limb and started him on one of my fantasy teams in honor of the occasion. Blocks, steals and rebounds!

    Can Klay Thompson get his shot off against his freakish length and athleticism?

  12. Douglas is not the answer to the Warriors back-up point guard problem unless he both shoots and makes a decent percentage of his shots. It seems to me that Jackson does not want him to shoot. More significantly, he’s not a assist guy which is the main quality one needs in a PG. I differ with you regarding his defense. Opposing PG are shooting 48% from the field and playing for the Kings last year, opponent’s shot 49% against him.

    Barnes has no game and is not consistent offensively. It drives me mad watching him stand around on the perimeter rather than getting into position near the foul-line for a offensive rebound when another Warriors takes a jump shot.

    Speights is not a better defender playing center as opposed to playing PF as opposing center’s shoot 52% against him while opposing PF’s shoot 44%. 82 games. He is more effective offensively playing near the basket by making put-backs and he has some effectiveness driving or taking short-range jump shots. Regardless of where he plays, he’s a big drag on the Warriors as he commits stupid fouls and turnovers.

  13. Re backup PG,

    I don’t follow the SC Warriors so I don’t know if anyone there shows promise, but a couple of guys we’re familiar with are available:

    The Grizzlies released Seth Curry on Sunday. He’s slow and small, but a good shot and has good court vision.

    Scott Machado is also available. He looked good in summer league, for whatever that’s worth. Good court vision, PG skills. Weak shooting and defense.

    Other than that, here’s HoopsHype’s complete list of FA guard as of today:


    No one on that list shows more promise than Douglas. If the Ws want to upgrade the BU PG spot, they’ll have to:

    a) get more from Douglas and/or Nedovic,
    b) work a trade (Miller?), or
    c) bring someone out of retirement.

    Just as a wild thought, Rip Hamilton is interested in playing some more. He’s 35 and a SG but knows a few things about putting the ball in the hole, which the 2nd team needs more than anything. Rip is currently unsigned. Potentially a huge bench upgrade.

    The Ws’ best bet is to find a way to get more from Douglas. The guy can score, and he proved he could sub decently for Curry on the 1st team.

    I’m with CB concerning the 2nd team. I think running a poorly-coordinated group onto the court all together is no way to develop each players’ individual games. If nothing else, it’s a confidence wrecker for all concerned. Why not mix’n’match starters and subs more?

    I also wonder why Douglas doesn’t get more PT. Even in his breakout SA game, when he scored better than anyone else on the team, Jackson benched him in the 4th.

    Since his injury, Douglas has been playing even less. Is he still recovering?

    • I’m pretty confident in the Ws front office and that some move will be done. The Bulls are blowing things up – so perhaps the rumor of Kirk Hinrik at $4 mil has merit. He might be a good fit if he’s still got his wheels.

      I thought wrong about Tony Douglas – I thought he could run the pg for 10-15 minutes. He hasn’t looked good when healthy. Whether that is because he’s playing with defense-oriented players (little offense) on the 2nd team – or that he’s a two guard – is anyone’s guess.

  14. As one more example of just how widely and cheaply available 3 and D wings are in the NBA, #20 pick Tony Snell is expected to get a big minutes boost for the Bulls, due to the trade of Luol Deng. Bulls management really likes this kid, as do I, having watched him in a couple of games. Tenacious defender.

    Jimmy Butler, Tony Snell — The Bulls clearly know how to draft NBA caliber wings. The Joe Lacob Warriors just as clearly do not.

    • The Bulls just gave up a productive Deng for three draft picks and a useless Bynum. They’re clearly in tank mode now, so maybe if Tony Snell plays well he plays less.

    • green is becoming an n.b.a. calibre wing, though it’s doubtful that the lacobites saw that in him. he reminds me in some ways of stephen jackson, not quite the ball handler or scorer, but tougher in the paint and on the boards, willing to take on any opponent, any size, relishes ‘making love to pressure’, makes his ‘mates better on both ends, a leader and leading in technical fouls. a pious, clean living, college grad version of stephen jackson.

  15. OK, having watched the Greek Freak play one full game, I’m ready to say that he’s a can’t miss star in the making, and a probable superstar.

    The things he can do at age 19 almost beggar description. Fantastic defender on the perimeter at 6-9″. Can pick up guards above the three point line and create steals. Fantastic court vision. Fantastic ball handler — his left hand dribble is ridiculously good for someone his size. Fantastic passer. And not just that, he simply radiates basketball IQ — he knows instinctively how to drive to set up his teammates; when defenses trap him, he knows instinctively where the open man is. Phenomenal speed in the open court.

    It’s too bad he plays for a horrible coach who won’t let him shoot. Not even from three. I wonder, can the Bucks generate better than .9 ppp with any other aspect of their offense?

    I’m not sure what Larry Drew is thinking, but if he holds back this kid’s offensive development, he should be fired out of hand. There are Durant-like possibilities here. With better defense, and better playmaking. Like Durant, he is the apotheosis of an NBA small forward.

    And everything that Harrison Barnes is not. As a #15 pick.

    • “Horrible coach” might be right, but to be fair the Bucks are a rebuilding team, and it takes time to instill team play. The Ws’ recent history is a perfect example.

  16. No recap tonight. The Warriors are demonstrating an extraordinary level of dominance at both ends of the floor against the NBA’s bottom feeders.

    It was great to see the bench play with such assertive ball movement. Why did that take so long? Also noticed a bit more staggering of the rotations — Evanz will rejoice at that.

    It was also great to see Toney Douglas get some shots. If this bench unit is to be truly effective, he needs to be UNLEASHED, like Nate Robinson. He is capable of carrying a team.

    • Mil isn’t just a bottom feeder, they’re at the very bottom of the entire association. from the looks of things, Drew is not the right coach for the post-Jennings/Ellis reconstruction, but the whole ownership and front office apparatus is probably as big or bigger a reason that they could take years to recover.

      • cosmicballoon

        Additionally, the Bucks have very little actual talent on this roster. The Greek Freak was impressive, especially as he dribbled the court and created passing lanes. He has a similar body to Durant, but is probably already more of a natural passer. Hopefully whoever his next coach is will utilize that skill set. Durant has always been a shooter, and it doesn’t seem like that shooting gene is in the Greek’s game.

        Thanks for your comment on Douglas, FB. I agree.

        • Can’t say I agree about the Bucks talent, CB. On paper they have at least as much as Phoenix. They held their own against the Ws last night through the first half on talent alone.

          What the Bucks don’t have is the Suns’ chemistry and team play.

          • Agreed FB – Toney Douglas was unleashed – but OFF the ball, not at PG. Bazemore needs to sit at PG, and a better back-up PG acquired.

            Agree with the Hat/Moto – Milwaukee can’t be this bad with that roster… Huge surprise here unless they wanted a tank job. Coach should go…

            Phoenix has a great small ball roster, I expect them to keep this up unless they blow it up.

  17. cosmicballoon

    And as the Warriors continue to win, Barnes gets less and less significant PT. It’s becoming obvious that he is not part of the Warriors future. He was -3 in this game against the Bucks when everyone else on the team was in the positive.

    Why did Curry play 36 minutes in this one?

    • at least the preacher appears to favor the closing quintet of lee, thompson, curry, green, iguodala, with plenty of perimeter d to prevent comebacks via 3 pt. shooting, ball handling to manage their possessions. but this wasn’t the first time that curry was left out much longer than needed with the game decided — it’s as if the coach wants to pad his stats.

  18. moto @9

    I do hope Dell is getting on Steph about his plummeting free throw %.

    Actually, I suspect the drop in Curry’s shooting percentage and his seemingly careless play is a result of fatigue, and not just from this road trip. Not just physically but also psychologically he is carrying the whole team, and has been doing so all season. It’s wall time. Jack gave him a break in time and responsibility last year.

  19. This game, like many other games, clearly shows that the Warriors best offense is when their starting line-up is on the court. Playing tall rather than small is more effective. I so nor wish to imply that playing small will not be effective on occasion.

    Barnes game has fallen apart and needs to be revamped.There is some doubt if that is even possible.

    Last night’s game supported Cosmicballoon’s observation that Jackson substituting all the subs at one time is counterproductive , and that substituting the subs in stages renders better results.

    • Big or small ball – if or when Ezeli/O’Neil get back – this coach has the tools to do either effectively…

      Barnes is a nice second year player who’s playing slightly better than last season – which is what I expected. What did you expect? Barnes definitely plays much better matched up with a PF or a PG. A SF? Not very well. He’d be best utilized if Mark Jackson could see this and put him in the right matchups/lineups and pull him from the wrong lineups. I think Coach Nelson would see this… Should Barnes’ ceiling be as a good role player, not all would be lost. He’ll still be very useful.

  20. Reggie Williams was 10-17 for 30 points, 4-8 on 3s, 6 assists in this d-league game:


    I don’t know about his health, but he’s a free agent, right?

    1. He’d be a cheap experiment, and he’s played well with Curry.

    2. He could make a big difference if they only pick up a so-so point guard.

    3. He is versatile. He could play 2 or 3, and step in with the starters.

    4. He can create his own shot and bolster the ailing subs.

    5. At least under Nelson, he got up to speed in a few weeks.

    6. And Nelson was very, very high on him.

    7. He could justify letting Bazemore go, thus freeing up a roster spot.

    8. And he could take Barnes’ place now with no great loss but plenty of upside. If Barnes is injured, he needs to rest and recover, if that can be done. If health isn’t the issue, he needs to step down and regroup and prove himself. He’d dragging the whole team down.


    But, as Jackson keeps saying, this is a defensive minded team, not offensive. They probably aren’t interested in such potential.

    • 9. I kind of miss that tattoo on his shoulder—was that his mom?

      • as of yesterday the team informed bazemore that he would not be waived, making the remaining portion of contract guaranteed. the only roster changes likely to come would involve a significant deal (a vet with a mid level contract) or a ten day temporary, which would give them flexibility with the fifteenth and final open roster spot if a bigger deal develops.

        we have no reason to think lacob has any regard for the d-leaguers who were on the team he proudly repudiated when he first became owner, nor for the opinions of the coach he paid to leave without the courtesy of a face to face meeting.

        • I figured not only would our beloved brain trust reject a Nelson pick, they would also categorically reject any player of that type.

          Bazemore is sad but predictable news.

          I don’t know that Reggie was that bad on defense, when you consider the roster he had to play with. More importantly, I don’t know that a unit with other players and him would be that bad defensively, that there wouldn’t be a significant net gain.

          I see our bench and Barnes had another productive night.

          One reason Curry and Thompson may not be shooting well is that they’re both playing heavy minutes and their legs are tired. Another scorer to keep more subs on the floor and boost the offense could make a big difference.

          • While we’re at it, why exactly are Barnes and Bazemore such good defensive players? I beginning to think that defensive players means players who can’t pass or shoot.

  21. Reggie Williams – loved watching him play when he was here – and a great guy/teammate. But we have a different regime now. Role players need to be good defenders now. And we all know Reggie Williams couldn’t guard anyone.

    I’ve admired Bazemore’s athleticism and defense, but he’s being played out of position – as is Toney Douglas. They are SGs and should be played off the ball.

    I’m hoping the Ws can be smart and make a minor change to the bench and get a point guard-to allow these guys and Stephen Curry – to play off the ball…

  22. Petey Brian: See where you have gone from saying Barnes is our future to now saying he’s a good role player.

    As for tonight’s game, didn’t like the Warriors playing Curry against everyone on the Nets and the Warriors ignoring Lee in the fourth.

    Blame Jackson and players for committing stupid fouls when Nets in the bonus thus placing them at the line.

    It’s hard to win with Curry making 5 turnovers and Lee 4.

    Iggy is still suffering from the hamstring injury. Couldn’t stay with Johnson. Curry couldn’t stay with Livingston.

    Thompson missed two easy lay-ups which we have seen before. And showed his brilliant play by twice traveling.

    Barnes defense was lacking. His offense should be limited to his shooting 3’s. Bet no one wants to trade for him anymore. Nice going Warriors.

    Douglas didn’t shoot and Speights continues to demonstrate he’s a big time idiot. Green had bad game.

    But, hey is was a back to back.

    • Barnes is incrementally better than he was last season and he’s shooting 43 percent from three point land. None too shabby. Still think he can’t shoot? Lol!

      In my opinion, Barnes’ WORST case scenario is he’s a solid NBA role player for many years. Playoff Barnes can re-emerge – he only needs bigger minutes and a small ball PF opportunity to be a fairly efficient 16 plus PPG scorer and floor spreader. Barnes as a small forward? I don’t see it. Kinda like Josh Smith at SF, I just don’t see it…

      I’m more concerned about Draymond Green’s shooting percentage. 34 percent from three is a huge improvement and I’m glad to see this, but .378 overall from the field? Granted he takes a large percentage of shots from three to spread the floor – but can this be right? With all those tip ins? Dominic McGuire can’t shoot a lick, but he did hit on .45 from the field in his time with the Ws…

      I don’t understand all the harsh criticism of Klay Thompson either. Klay only continues to get better and better. He can shoot the lights out on the perimeter. His numbers this season so far are All-Star worthy. And his defense is versatile and rock solid. Other NBA teams drool over Klay’s game – right now. Lol!

  23. No recap tonight. This game illustrated pretty clearly why no one has ever gone undefeated on a 7 game road trip in NBA history. If the record hadn’t been on the line, one wonders whether the Warriors would even have shown up. As it was, I thought it was an extraordinary effort.

    The game also illustrated clearly just how desperate the Warriors are for a competent backup point guard. Pretty sure it would have made the difference.

    Astonishing to me how small Iggy looked next to Joe Johnson. Johnson simply abused him in the paint, just rocked him constantly. Unfortunately, Iggy couldn’t counter with his customary quickness. He is really still a shadow of himself.

    Barnes didn’t distinguish himself with this effort. He should have been one of the fresher Warriors, but displayed absolutely no heart. His defense was simply atrocious, no matter who he was guarding. He simply has no IQ, and even less desire, on that end of the court.

    Take a look at that complete bagel in the effort categories. Appalling.

    • the records they could not break were well earned and deserve to stand. the starting five for the woeyrs that still hold the team record for consecutive wins — cazzie, nate, j.barnett, clyde lee, mullins. the best road record — SA during their rodeo exile, 8-1 with the loss coming when popovich rested duncan parker ginobili of course.

      can the fans drinking the barnes kool aid even see, in this game, the difference in the commitment and energy and effort for every play on both ends that green brings and barnes does not ?

    • When Curry takes over the game offensively, the Ws usually lose. The lack of ball movement in this game was disturbing, given how well this team can pass. Very little movement. Could have run a lot more. Maybe the back to back had a lot to do with this…

      Playing Toney Douglas only 3 minutes makes little sense to me… Coach is probably sending a message to Myers – get me a point guard now – to play Klay and Curry all those minutes on end of a back to back. Toney is a nice SG scorer at the least – could have spelled Klay at a minimum…

      Barnes stuck both his threes… Should shoot more of them.

    • On a night when the refs had quick whistles, Barnes getting just one foul in 21 minutes was remarkable. He must work very hard to avoid contact.

      Green probably errs in the opposite direction. He has his best games when he can get away with being physical. With 5 fouls in 16 min. last night, I guess the refs were not fans of Green’s game.

      Or Curry’s. The refs called Curry for a foul when Livingston elbowed Curry’s head. What is it about the Warriors that makes refs tag them with so many cheezy foul calls? All except for Barnes, of course.

      • Barnes has been recovering from the flu the last few days. Otherwise he’s perfectly capable of a couple hacks per game and an offensive foul… :)

    • A lot of great discussion in the last couple of days.

      A look at Barnes numbers shows some improvement in 3pt%, but all the other numbers are about the same as last season or a little worse.

      The 5 man data at 82games shows the difference between Barnes and AI. With the same other-4-players on the court, the +/- is excellent with AI and poor with HP. Quite a few minutes too. I didn’t review the opponents’ records but it was largely random, since HB played most of those starter minutes because of the hamstring.

      It’s all consistent with the knocks on him in the old draft analyses.

      How much can he improve? I’m pessimistic, because I see it as involving a lack of fire. If you want to understand how passive Barnes is, watch Draymond.

      I actually think Barnes got a little lucky in the playoffs. He did most of his damage with the same move, a long drive to the rim. SA did not stop it. With the defenses stopping that, all he’s got is the 3 point shot. To his credit, he’s hitting it, but he doesn’t get that many attempts. If they traded him for somebody with last year’s Jared Jack skillset, I’d be satisfied.

      And, on the subject of Draymond, his FG% is low because he isn’t good around the rim. Too many of his short shots roll out. I think he can fix this, but he needs to develop some patience and a good pump fake.

  24. Long time reader of the blogs and comment discussion. This is definitely one of the best blogs as far as in-game analysis of the players and system.

    That being said, I thought that I would pose a question related to the “back-up point guard” need for dubs. There is no question that the envisioned bench unit is holding this team back. A simple reason is that the bench can’t score. It is becoming even more blatantly apparent that Barnes’ isolations are not efficient as well as his lack of vision and playmaking ability, among other things. I’m not giving up, he’s young, but I’m worried.

    While much attention has been made about the need of a back-up point guard (Hinrich, Andre Miller, Kyle Lowry), I think a scoring wing off the bench might be a bigger need to fill. Who is our backup 2? Bazemore? Our make-shift point guard?

    My main problem with a facilitating pg is the following. A pg like A Miller or Hinrich could create more looks for the whole bench mob, but who exactly do you think will be the beneficiary of more looks? More importantly, who do you want to get more looks out of the bench unit? I love Draymond to death, but you want more Draymond jumpshots? Do you want to see Speights miss more 15 footers this season? Is that the end goal? Well, it seems like you would want the backup pg to make life easier on Barnes, which it could. But, the verdict is still out on how Barnes can be effective (probably at the 4), but it’s kind of hard to see how he can be a consistent AND efficient scorer at the 3 in this league. I’m not buying that adding Miller/Hinrich is going to help Barnes offense develop consistency. Especially in MJax sets.

    Which brings me back to my thought of a need for a scorer on the 2nd unit. Jax has tried experimenting with lineup changes (another topic all together). But, assuming he wants to keep the dynamic starting 5 together for as many minutes as possible, I’m thinking he wants to keep the bench unit together. To me, it seems like the Warriors then must go find an insta-offense, sometimes irrational type of scoring guard that has become an interesting niche in the league. I’m thinking in the mold of a JR Smith, Nick Young, Jeremy Lamb, Xavier Henry (sorry for mentioning two Lakers), Lin, and Waiters (last two to a lesser extent). My point is that while Miller and Hinrich would help the unit, I think a create-my-own shot scorer would be more ideal. So, while Barbosa just got picked up, I like the mentions of Reggie Williams, Pierre Jackson, or of a Rodrigue Beaubeois (44 pt way, way long ago). Someone who can create their own shot, but can put the ball in the hoop. (I realize that Lowry can provide these things and more, but I’m thinking the asking price is too high). A scorer like that could bail out the unit, and he would know that he would get his shots every night while hiding on defense. I believe that most assumed Barnes could step into the main scorer role in the 2nd unit, but he is still not there. Note, I did mention pg types in beaubois and Lin, but they are a specific type of score first player rather than a Miller/Hinrich.

    I also realize that a big part of the back-up pg need is to get Curry some rest. However, I have to believe that Jax would be more inclined to give Douglas more minutes if the 2nd unit could score together, and Jax could trust someone besides Curry to create offense from his sets.

    While much has been made about the bench weaknesses, I do think Meyers will make a move before the deadline. But, I would hope that he would keep Jax philosophies and sets in mind when adding a player. A scorer, creator on offense, which might not be the best player overall, but a better fit for this team.

    • You’re right.

      The type of player who would relieve Curry best and the one who would most improve the 2nd unit could be different players.

      I’ve been assuming that Myers would add only 1 guy, if any. The team has 14 players right now, and it looks like they’re keeping everyone. So if Myers had to choose between a Curry reliever and a 2nd team scorer/leader, I wonder which he’d go with.

      • Great post! Hinrich, Lowry, and Miller are the hot rumors of the day.

        Since we’re dreaming here – I want the W’s to acquire Goran Dragic because any player nicknamed “The Dragon” should be acquired at any price. He’d fit in nicely here and could put Curry off the ball for a few minutes as well (couldn’t guard the SG though). $7.5 million per is pretty steep. And the Suns could get something good for him – like Lowry – and might be more trouble than they’re worth.

        I can’t believe the explosive Nate Robinson – who did just fine in his stint with us a couple years back running the 2nd unit – would be too difficult to pry away, although the Andre Iguodala signing didn’t make us any friends in Denver. And his salary is reasonably cheap…

    • Great post tyler — lays out all the issues. I also have concerns about adding a non-scoring point guard. Regular readers know I don’t believe in them. In the NBA, defenses must be made to fear and respect the point of attack.

      But as for adding a scoring two-guard, I’m not sure that will solve the Warriors problem either. They clearly need a second unit ballhandler that Jackson can trust. For whatever reason, he clearly doesn’t trust Douglas. The second unit as currently constructed will fall apart under playoff pressure.

      I’m totally down with the Reggie Williams idea. Not just a great scorer, but as you remember, a great point-forward under Don Nelson. Simply phenomenal on pick and roll. And his defense could easily be hidden on the floor with Douglas, Green and Bazemore. Not going to happen though — it would mean sitting Mr. Barnes. And GMs and coaches appear to have lost the tape on RW.

    • No argument here. You have to accept compromises with bench players, but the GSW brain trust has always categorically taken players who, supposedly, are better defensive players but have limited offense (except Dorrell Wright). Amundson over Tolliver, etc., etc., etc.. And they’re all struggling, and most are gone or are on their way out.

      With a 15 man roster and 12 active players, there’s no reason not to diversify and experiment with a variety of inexpensive alternatives at all positions. We should have a backup PG and other types of players we don’t have now. Many teams have players whose main attribute is that they can shoot, like Miller, who would help us as well.

      Nedovic is not a good shooter, but the FO banked their hopes on him. Rather they selected him because of his ability to run a control offense, largely feeding the big men down low, Kristic on the Serbian team, and driving when he finds an opening, which he’ll have trouble finding in the NBA.

      Kristic, btw, is no longer in the NBA, but he was effective in Euroleague. They probably selected Kuzmic for the same reason, and there’s probably no reason to think he’ll perform well in the NBA.

      I most mention Reggie simply because we’ve seen what he can do, and FB’s analysis, of course, is spot on. And because he’s available and cheap. There’s nothing to lose.

  25. fuzzy dunlop

    First time commenting here after some lurking. Great blog, thought i’d chip in with some thoughts about Curry. Wall of text ahead :)

    While it would be foolish to say Curry “lost” the Ws the game, I think this road stretch has illustrated some worrying aspects of his play this season that many fans have been willing to sweep under the rug:

    1. His 3 ball is clearly off. He’s now dipped under 39 percent on the season. He’s being forced to jack up a bunch of shots off the dribble that he isn’t making at nearly the rate from last season (or that’s my impression anyway, would love to see some stats on that). You rarely see him spot up, and he seems lethargic trying to get open when off the ball. Obviously exhaustion is part of it, but this has been a season long trend. The long term question is whether we can expect him to even come close to replicating last season’s GOAT-caliber 3 point shooting now that he’s playing off guard much less, or is that simply asking too much?

    2. The turnovers. My hope was that with Iguodala back the numbers would start coming back to earth. They’ve only gotten worse. Many of them are certainly “unforced” which gives one hope that he’d be able to
    cut down on them eventually, but isn’t the fact that so many seem to come from poor awareness actually more concerning? I’m not trying to make a silly “he’s not a point guard” argument here: Curry can be a very good PG even with a severe turnover problem. But I don’t think he can be a truly elite, championship caliber one if he isn’t able to overcome this.

    • 1) I attribute Curry’s decline in efficiency this season to a variety of factors:

      a) Inability to play off the ball: the loss of Jarrett Jack, and the injury to his replacement, Iggy. Note that the hobbled Iggy has not yet resumed the backup point guard duties that he took on to start the season.

      b) Defenses focusing harder on him. He was double-teamed virtually throughout the second half of the Nets game. Note that his inability to play off the ball plays directly into this.

      c) The schedule. The Warriors have had the toughest schedule in the NBA to date. And it’s not over. After this next home game against HOU (which is essentially a continuation of the road trip), they’ll be off on a road back to back against NO and OKC.

      d) Fatigue as a result of the first three factors.

      It’s also possible that the decline is partially due to simple variance — that he performed at an unsustainably great level last season. But I think that if Iggy returns to health, and the Warriors add a competent backup point guard, Curry’s numbers will come back up. Particularly as the schedule softens.

      One other point: The phenomenal scoring efficiency we are currently seeing in David Lee and Andrew Bogut is directly related to their opponents’ focus on blitzing Curry. Defenses have made a conscious decision to stop Curry at all costs, as the head of the Warriors snake.

      Thus Curry’s % down, TO’s up, but assists up sharply as well. Is this such a bad thing? Part of the yin and yang of basketball.

      2) The TO problem is directly related to everything discussed above, and could certainly be helped by the return to health of Iggy, an added pg, schedule, etc.

      But it’s also not nearly the problem that people think it is, as George Karl pointed out last night on the radio. He used the Thunder as an example: One of the highest turnover teams in the league, and also an NBA finalist.

      An aggressive mindset carries risk. But it also brings great rewards.

      • Another thought just occurred to me after reading an EvanZ tweet that Curry has 6 games this season with 10+ FTA, equalling the total for his career coming into this season. Curry has emphasized getting into the lane and getting contact this season. This has without a doubt contributed to his fatigue level.

        But given the increase in his FTA, I wonder if his TS% has declined as much as his FG%. Perhaps someone less lazy can fill us in on this.

    • He’s not scoring at such a high percentage because he’s not being set up to shoot as he was previous seasons. And I share your concern. Iguodala is supposed to help out here, but Iguodala may be ailing.

      One thing we’ll never know is how well all the starters might perform crunch time if they weren’t played so much. Fatigue has to factor in here. Turnovers are also influenced by the type of control offense they often play.

    • I don’t vehemently disagree with any of the points either of you are making, but I do think it’s more than a purely circumstantial phenomenon, in particular with regards to Curry’s shooting. Some numbers are in order:

      1. Even with Curry drawing fouls at a better rate, his TS is down to 0.573 from 0.589 last year. His EFG is down to 0.527 from 0.549.
      2. While part of his decline in percentages can be attributed to being forced to take more pull-up shots, his efficiency on those has dropped steeply as well: down from about 0.395 on threes off the dribble (http://i.imgur.com/VQC6f33.png) to about 0.34 so far this year (numbers on sportsvu are one game behind).
      3. Even his FT percentage has slipped from 0.90 to 0.869, by no means a disastrous drop but another indication that his shot is (for lack of a more sophisticated description) “off”.

      Now onto the TOs, I’m not sure I agree with the notion that Curry’s turnovers stem primarily from over-aggressiveness. I also see plenty of over passing (getting into the lane and preferring to thread the needle as opposed to trying to finish), and most frustratingly a certain laziness/cuteness especially with those one handed passes. Right now Curry is an excellent passer with some very bad passing habits. And I’m don’t think Jackson is the type of coach that’ll wean him off these habits, which is of course ironic given that he was himself an efficient pass first PG.

      • Sometimes a virtue bleeds into a vice. Curry thinks quickly and works best when the team is in motion. When the offense stalls, he gets frustrated—and can get shut down. But when that happens, there’s not much good for him to do with the ball anyway. Don Barnett made the observation one game that he might be bored.

        I think sometimes he gets ahead of himself, making passes to players who aren’t there. But that might be a case at times of the team not catching up with him, not making the cut to the open spot where they should be, etc.

      • My other concern is that Curry is a great shooter, but he needs to get into a rhythm, and that comes from shooting often and getting set up with open looks as well as creating shots on his own. He can start cold, but needs to keep shooting until he gets back into a groove, throughout a game, from game to game. Point guards have to hold back their offense and set up other players, but Curry still needs to get his shots freely, so he’ll be ready crunch time.

  26. There are two ways of looking at Harrison Barnes:

    1. He is a sizable, athletic player, who has the potential to become a great NBA player once he learns a bit more about the game.

    2. Wing span and height and foot speed and UNC hype might entice fans and NBA owners, but aren’t nearly enough to make a complete player. Jerry West himself said as much before Barnes was drafted. He is an athletic player who learned a few tricks that allowed him to dominate in high school and AAU, ripping drives and getting shots off, but not perform so well much in college, where he was disappointing, who has reached the limits of his abilities and will not get much better because he lacks the experience and head for the game, or the vital skills to go further, which he will not learn them at this stage of his career. It’s too late. And, given his limitations, playing under the pressure of NBA games for a contending team will only make learning, already unlikely, harder. He needed to develop gradually over his whole career, against less imposing competition.

    And I’m saying it’s #2, and my reason is simple and damning. If he’s any kind of offensive player, he should find some way to score with the subs as the featured player. They simply should pass him the ball and he will find a way to score. He hasn’t. He hasn’t all season. He doesn’t know how. Instead, he has to be set up for shots and everything has to be just right for him to drive or shoot. Otherwise he’s lost. And my dominant impression of Barnes the last two season is not of his sensational dunks but of his fumbling the ball or, being passed the ball, taking a look and being clueless, and passing it back.

    His scouting report notes he lacks an explosive first step. Maybe it didn’t matter earlier, but without it in the NBA his driving ability is nearly neutralized. I don’t know if that is a matter of experience or having a quick enough head to steer the body, but either way, he doesn’t have it, and without the head, he’ll never develop it.

    The scouting report mentioned his fakes and foot work to get shots off. Again, maybe he had enough for AAU, but we’re not seeing that now. And he is merely a good, not a great shooter. How many college players had his average and played in the NCAA tournament, none of them in the NBA now?

    Just as damning the report noted then he could not find and set up other players. This, too, has to be learned over years, and this he cannot do.

    Heart may not matter if you don’t have the head for the game. Then again, there’s no reason he can’t drive, get fouls, and go to the line, and at least get some aggressive fouls on defense. Feltbot’s interpretation of his maternal relationship in the last post may well have merit.


    Bob McKillop, Steph’s college coach:

    “Stephen has rare traits for a freshman; he isn’t focused on just one end of the court,” McKillop said. “Defensively, he is years ahead of what a freshman is. Most kids in freshman years come in, they’ve played AAU basketball for 80 games a summer where they run up and down the floor and shoot. Steph came to us with a real sense of defensive understanding and a willingness to commit to play.”


    Instead of showing off for AAU summer festivals, Steph learned the game. I think Dell even kept Steph out of AAU, for that reason.

    Note Bob didn’t say he was a great defender, but that he understood it. He still suffers because of size and athleticism, but we see his knowledge on defense in so many ways, which is why he makes steals and gets so many boards. He sees the court and knows what is going on all the time. We also know, of course, he has learned just about everything there is to know about offense, and he started learning early, probably in grade school.

    The same can’t be said of Barnes, and again, we have no reason to believe he’ll learn what he should have learned long ago.

    Trade him while he has any trade value left.

    • cosmicballoon

      On the bright side:

      a) Barnes is certainly not slated for any more Olympic rosters. He should have a chance to develop next summer if he so chooses. We were all expecting him to continue to improve, but his off-season work only included games, rather than work on his skill set (he did improve his three point shooting.)

      b) If he is considered a “bust,” there is no max contract in his future. From all that we’ve seen and heard, he is a hard worker and has not complained about anything. If he actually does begin to develop, perhaps the Warriors can sign him at a value contract.

      c) Eventually Jackson will realize that playing Barnes at the stretch 4 is the only option. When he makes that realization, as FB has pointed out, Barnes becomes nearly unarguardable by traditional 4s. This lineup could re-emerge if Bogut goes down. Or perhaps in a playoff series against the Spurs.

      d) If all else fails, Barnes probably does have some trade value to a team that needs scoring. Or to the Kings.

  27. couple of observations, not yet mentioned in this good thread:
    nets started small, warriors big, the burst (probably, last for the trip) of energy gave them 16 point advantage. then warriors subbed relatively small and nets big – speights couldn’t hold his own against blatche, warriors lost the lead.
    then warriors subbed back big with bogut and nets back to small and got the lead – either they changed the plan with less isos and more ball movement, or warriors were too tired, but nets spread the floor better and got hot. in the third warriors started as in the first, but soon they went small to match the nets, they had enough to level the point difference but probably not enough in the energy tank to advance.

    so, i say warriors getting big lead early, in hindsight, could be considered as unfortunate trick – if warriors started small to match nets, they might still have had a lead, but, more importantly, would have had bogut to play blatche, which i assume would have made nets run impossible.

    • Great point martin — I too noticed the curiosity of the fact that Nets played small with Garnett and Pierce on the first unit, and big with Blatche and Teletovich on the second unit. Made for some very interesting crossmatches and counter-strategies.

      One thing that upset me was that while the Warriors ran pick and roll quite a bit against the Nets first unit — where it was greatly and effectively challenged at the top by Garnett, and down low by mobile smalls — they ran it not at all against the horrid Blatche and Teletovic combo, and in fact resorted a lot to Lee postups.

      Mysterious. And bad.

  28. Someone once asked Joe Montana to compare the early Joe QB to the later Joe. His response was interesting, and pertinent to athletes in general, I think. He said that he always had the same basic ability, but his game vision improved over time.

    If that’s what happens with playing time, does it kinda/sorta leave hope for Harrison Barnes? Of course Montana was a top QB to begin with, and Barnes is missing some basic, necessary skills (like ballhandling). But Barnes’ biggest problem is that he doesn’t seem to comprehend what’s going on around him, on O or D.

    On O, the team may run isos for Barnes because he doesn’t have a feel for team play. He doesn’t know where anyone else is going to be, so he can’t pass well. On D, Barnes can’t seem to predict his opponent’s moves. Unlike DGreen, he’s reactive only, and that always leaves him a step behind.

    If Barnes’ court vision improved, it seems to me that he could be a decent player. He’s a good shooter, and by all reports a good hardworking guy. He doesn’t get rattled in crunch time, and has hit some really big shots for the Ws.

    If Joe Montana’s take on “game vision” is how things work, maybe Barnes just needs more time.

    • when you express confidence in the owner, and optimism like this in Mr.Barnes, in makes me wonder if you have an investment in the team, like season tickets or something greater. barnes, unlike ezeli or dedmon, has had plenty of high level competition and coaching for years, and hasn’t shown above average cognitive faculties. he’s been critiqued since college for his passivity, but there’s probably at least some indecision and limited or inhibited mental speed, hoops-wise, contributing to it. in beisbol, everyone understands that the fastest players do not all become base stealers, and even running the bases efficiently and aggressively requires more than foot speed. it’s very possible that barnes could blossom under better coaching, but the lacobites hardly appear to be making changes there. with his age and sophomore status, his grades can still be written in pencil, but next season it should be ink.

      • Excellent summation of the Barnes situation, moto.

        Let’s leave his assessment in pencil for now, rather than writing him off in ink immediately.

        As for your guess about my trust in Lacob, guess again. Or just re-read anything I’ve contributed here for the past two years.

        I’m a bball purist. I acknowledge, as you should, that Lacob and his management team have assembled one of the best NBA teams in history. The “weakness” in this team is, by the numbers, not a horrible NBA player. In fact, by the numbers, he’s better than the guy he replaced, Dorell Wright.

        He doesn’t measure up to the quality of the starting 5. His game has gaping holes. But fax are fax. Barnes don’t suck.

        Acknowledge fax, OK? If you can’t, your opinion isn’t worth spit and I can’t bother to play with you anymore.

  29. Speaking of learning from dad and what we have to look forward to, #30 in the FINAL game of his career, 16th season, which puts him in his late 30s (note the similarities):

  30. Don Nelson on Reggie Williams:

    “I think he has a gift,” Warriors coach Don Nelson said of Williams. “He doesn’t even know how big a gift he has because we’ve just dusted off the surface. He’s a rare basketball player, as far as I can see. He’s able to have the mental capacity to understand the total game and who is open. He can read defenses and can score and he’s quick. He’s unselfish but he knows he’s a scorer. I think he’s a special player.”

    And Reggie comments:

    Williams said the system that Nelson runs matters. But it’s also the environment.

    “(It’s the system) and the fact my teammates and the coaching staff put confidence in me,” Williams said. “They help me on the floor with plays, being in the right spot at the right time, so it’s just a lot of things into one.”


    Make a checklist from the above comments of what the current organization doesn’t have, starting with Reggie.

    • We’ve started a “sign Reggie” campaign here?

      If so, let’s just add a few facts to the discussion:

      – Reggie averaged only 9.6 min/game with Charlotte last year. He could barely get on the floor. With Charlotte.

      – That’s the 2012-13 Charlotte Bobcats. The Bobcats with a 21-61 record.

      – Despite his (amazing!) skills as a scorer, despite Don Nelson’s blessings, Reggie is currently not employed by any NBA team. For some reason.

      Since leaving the Ws, Reggie has suffered a series of knee problems, which have ultimately limited his mobility. He was never even “mediocre” on defense, even at his prime, during his Nelson years. Now: who knows?

      Felt, I understand and agree with your point about the need to add scoring punch to the 2nd team. I agree that the ultimate goal is point differential, and by that measure O wins games just as well as D.

      But before we launch a Reggie for Pres campaign here, let’s give a nod toward serviceable D. There are no fast breaks without defensive stops, and there are very few stops with the kind of D Reggie Williams delivered even before his knee problems. And there’s very little chance that he’s better on D now.

      • The Warriors are fond of saying “we have enough shooters” but I believe they have enough defenders. Enough, even, to hide players like Curry, Lee and Barnes. And it’s not defense that the 2nd unit is desperate for.

        The reason I like Reggie — beyond the fact that he shot 40% from 3 for the Warriors, and was as brilliant driving as he was shooting, and rebounded well at SF — is because he is a very gifted point guard/forward. If you can’t remember just how gifted, you have the testimony of the best point guard evaluator in league history above to go by.

        As you point out, we have no idea if he’s the same player post-injury. But if he is, I’d take him in a heart beat.

        As for what Mike Dunlap taught us about RW, I’ll just pretend you didn’t say that. I think Daryl Morey — one of the best GMs in the league right now — taught us far more by putting RW on his roster.

        • And then NOT using him?

          FB, I’m completely warm and fuzzy Reggie-wise. But time marches on and there’s some pretty compelling evidence that today’s RW is not Nelson’s RW. Zero evidence that he could deliver today what he did under Nelson. Nothing to suggest that he’s highly regarded by ANY NBA scout today, at any salary whatsoever.

          So forgive me, but I don’t think I (or you) are so amazingly prescient that we can know that RW is an NBA quality player right now. I’d be happy if he were. I doubt it. You should too.

          • Oh, yeah, I just checked Reggie’s numbers. Are you fact-based, Felt?

            In his final season with the Ws, Reggie shot .423 from 3. That’s great, but in his first GSW season he shot only .359. For his career, he’s at .371. His overall career shooting %: .460.

            FWIW, Barnes career 3-pt. average is .383, better than RW’s. Overall, he’s at .383, worse than RW’s.

            In his final season with the Ws, Reggie got an average of 2.7 rebounds per game, which matches his career average. His one-season high in assists was 2.8, his career average 1.6.

            Barnes: 4.1 rebounds and 1.3 assists overall.


            Reggie was one of the best scorers in Nelson’s last two seasons with the Warriors, but those were some damn lousy teams, and Reggie’s numbers don’t make him a wizard. In fact, Harrison Barnes (whose overall game I dislike intensely) has very similar numbers.

            Just sayin’.

          • Correction: Barnes’ career FG % is .438

      • the man said ‘fax are fax’, yet facsimiles are something of a shadow of the actual thing. for the two seasons he played for GS, williams’ effective f.g. pct., and true shooting percentage were both appreciably higher than barnes’ career numbers. even after his lower shooting numbers for Cha, williams’ career numbers still surpass barnes.’ simple shooting pct., or per game scoring averages only render an incomplete and sometimes misleading facsimile.

  31. PeteyBrian: It’s ridiculous to say that Barnes is a decent role player when he plays a good bit with four starters and the Warriors are outscored with him in court. It’s equally ridiculous to say that he shoots a high 3-point field goal percentage when on average he only makes 1 3-pointer per game.

    • I’m curious to see some stat about the type of 3 point shot Barnes takes. My impression is that almost all of them are spot-up shots, when he is open and not guarded, and has at least a second to compose and shoot. I’m at a loss remembering many shots off the dribble or where he makes a move to get open and shoot. And if things aren’t right, he passes out. That would improve his %.

    • Barnes’ offensive stats are respectable in scoring 11 points per game – his three point percentage is great so far and better than last season. If you’re going to critique Barnes’ game – fine, but I’d start with his defense… And Barnes, like Klay – can turn around his questionable defense.

  32. We’re not going to learn anything about a player who played under Mike Dunlap’s “system” in Charlotte.

    • Right.


      I’d be delighted to hear that Reggie is all healed up today, and good to go in a sprint-fest like an NBA game. What do you know about his condition, rgg?

  33. And now Bledsoe is going under the knife. . . .

    • Point guards are dropping like flies. It’s why I don’t especially care about Curry’s free throw attempts.

  34. felt boss, saw your tweet re. shot blocking 4’s. Henson, Mil., preferred by more than a few fans over Barnes in that draft class ; Favors, UT ; Jones, Hou ; Gibson, Chi (w. Noah at center, that team deserves its rep for defense) ; Johnson, Tor.

    • Favors is now playing center, where he belongs. Henson probably belongs there too. Yes to the others.

      There’s not a lot, though, is there? Which makes me wonder at the Lee critics.

  35. Fake Trade Proposal

    Harrison Barnes for Xavier Henry and Jordan Hill? Who says no?

    Lakers get guy who Kobe quoted as a “little brother,” and a marketable, young player.

    Warriors get value and much needed bench help with henry and hill.

    I just don’t see how Lakers out of all teams turn down “Hollywood” Barnes.


  36. Another quick thought: there has been no talk about a possible evan turner for Barnes swap? Turner is on the trading block, and he is a ball dominant player in the 2nd unit who could be used as a primary ball handler. It seems like Turner as a 6th man would give the warriors a very interesting look coming down the stretch. Meanwhile, I do think the 76ers would find value in a 21 yr old Barnes to add to a MCW core.

    • I don’t think the Ws have cap space for Turner who will want to get a big contract next season. At a minimum, Harrison is cheap.

    • Interesting idea, but would Turner be willing to take on a reduced role?

    • Throw in O’Neal and it works.

      The trade machine is easy and fun to play with. It makes the mathematical calculations for you and explains.


      • I love all these trade ideas. What makes you think the guy you “hate” is going to garner you anything of value?

        Isn’t it the height of arrogance to believe you’re all smarter than the guys actually working in the NBA?

        • Because, I don’t hate Barnes and I do believe he has value. I don’t think teams around the league all hate Barnes either. To assume that he has zero trade value at this point in his career would be ridiculous. This guy is a potential scorer, athlete, and is 21 years old. That being said, he is the wrong guy for the Warriors in the short-term period. The Warriors need bench help and contributors that provide more than Barnes can at this point.

          Also, when you look at trades mentioned, the Warriors would be taking a risk as well.76ers are looking to deal Turner as he is expiring at the end of the year. For the trades to work, the Warriors would obviously want assurance that they would have a chance to signing Turner. On the opposite side, Barnes has a very cap friendly contract with his rookie deal.

          So, you can shoot down these ideas based on statistics or lineup analysis. But, to shoot it down by saying Barnes has zero value does not make sense.

  37. Wash,

    Your idea sounds to me like it has merit, but I’m no expert. From what I understand reading here on this forum, it would be a proactive move on the Warriors part.

    • if you’re referring to Evan Turner on Phi, what is the basis of interest ? Phi mistakenly thought his quasi-point forward skills would make iguodala expendable in the quest for Bynum. have the fans here really examined his game — ball dominant, very high turnovers (assist to turnover ratio has declined this season to about 1.3 to 1), likes to shoot but has erratic at best and generally inefficient results at it. there might be some potential in him to get re-tuned under good coaching, but he’s 25 already, and he won’t be getting that manner of coaching in GS, where presumably the team wants a player ready to make an immediate positive difference.

      • Moto, I was referring to the idea about the Lakers’ Henry and Hill. Wash posted another message, as I was responding, and the messages crossed.

  38. I have a larger concern @27 and reason for comparing Barnes and Curry. There are too many incomplete players in the NBA, even though they may have talent, and the reason is they’re not getting the training they need or being given a chance to mature physically and psychologically. There should be a score of capable point guards available now, and there isn’t.

    Unless you have an organization like the Spurs, they’re not going to get it in the NBA. We see no evidence to contradict moto’s theory our staff is inadequate. Also, unless they are brought up slowly, they may face too much pressure and never develop. And Barnes was put under a lot of pressure from day one with GSW.

    I’m not being sentimental. It’s been said many times before, but I wonder if we aren’t reaching a critical point. So many of the one or two year and done college phenoms aren’t working out. The NBA has the bucks to draft them and can discard them without financial loss. I also wonder if the D-league, as a whole, has resources comparable to those at the schools. A lot of box scores look like shooting matches to get attention.

    The college system now of one- and two-year players isn’t just ruining college basketball—I’ve completely lost interest—and hampering development, it’s also screwing up the evaluation system. But for rare exceptions, scouting reports based on college performance are becoming guesses, if they aren’t meaningless. Add to this the haze of hype that clouds all judgment. Again, Barnes.

    A one year player really is only with a program 4-5 months, right?

    Barnes was incomplete at UNC and is incomplete now. Had he stayed, he might have learned skills in a less competitive environment. Or we would have learned that he really didn’t have what it took. His draft status went down several notches during his final season and the tourney, and may have kept going down.

    Curry (3 years), Green, Lee—and Reggie Williams and Patty Mills, for that matter—stayed in school and were able to develop as central players for their teams under good coaching (I don’t know about RW’s coach), and played in an environment where they weren’t overwhelmed. Where would Chris Mullin have been without St. John’s and Lou Carnesecca?

    I have a special reason to be disappointed in Barnes. I grew up in North Carolina, and unless you were into stock car racing, college basketball was the only show in town. And growing up, I saw the emergence of great players who moved on and performed well:

    Charlie Scott (Bill Simmons is high on him in his big book)
    Walter Davis
    James Worthy
    Billy Cunningham
    Plus many others who were good role players, Kupchak, Sam Perkins, etc., and add to them the many fine players they competed against for 3-4 years in the ACC.

    (Dean Smith drove me crazy and I thought he held his players back, especially Walter Davis, but Jordan, in Halberstam’s book, gives him tremendous credit.)

    Of course you have to make exceptions for rare talents and move them up out of high school.

    I don’t dislike Barnes at all. He seems like an OK guy. Actually, I have no sense of who he is. It’s hard to see who he is through all the hype, and I can’t help wondering if he isn’t having the same problem.

  39. My whole point about Reggie is that he would be a cheap experiment with a huge upside. They could run him on a couple of 10 day contracts and see how it worked out. But it rests on several assumptions:

    1. If he is healthy (the first thing I said @20)

    2. If he is still in good form (2-10 from the 3 the other night, but he still scored)

    3. If our brain trust knew who he was

    4. If our brain trust recognized what he might offer and were committed to exploiting his talents in a different system

    5. If the roster weren’t so full and cap space weren’t so tight, filled with questionable backup centers and questionable fill-in players

    I don’t know about 1 and 2, but the answers to 3-5 is no. Most likely, the FO is juggling every buck and player, as they have in the past (cf. dumping Lin for the Jordan trade, letting Jenkins go) to make some kind of deal for a point guard, which will probably be the only move they can make and will probably be a compromise.

    • Yeah, it is hard to see how the Ws can upgrade the roster right now.

      They still have trade exceptions (Jefferson and Rush) totaling over $15M, so I guess they can avoid a salary cap violation (not sure how that works), but they have 14 players on guaranteed contracts. Which means they could add only one FA (like Reggie), or they could trade.

      The available unsigned FAs are unsigned for a reason. Except possibly Reggie, though I suspect there are reasons in his case too.

      So that leaves trading, and the Qs there are a) who the Ws would give up, b) for whom, and c) who on the Ws roster would be desirable to a trade partner.

      The team is not going to trade one of the starting 5. The only non-starting c) players on the roster might be Barnes, Green, and possibly Douglas and Speights. But I’m pretty certain the Ws don’t want to get “Jeremy Lin’d” again, so they’ll keep Barnes and Green.

      Speights is necessary to the team, and Douglas is probably the 2nd team’s “least bad” scorer, so the Ws would have a hard time letting either go.

      So maybe the Ws sign RW, if he’s healthy. Otherwise, I think they’ll probably stand pat and continue trying to develop their current 2nd team players.

      • Oh yeah, how soon we forget. There’s also O’Neal. But with his injury/unavailability history, is he a desirable trade asset?

        I also assume Ezeli is not tradeable until he’s getting game time again. It looks like he won’t see live action this month, and possibly not at all this season.

      • trade exceptions as the name indicates affect permissible trades and do not alter the cap line, which GS already surpasses considerably (like most competitors), or the lux tax line (which they will exceed if they add much more than about 3 m.). the exceptions they possess originated from the rush contract (about 4 m.) and jefferson’s (11 m.)

        • I can run the ESPN trade machine, but I don’t know any way to speculate on trade exceptions.

          I guess we’ll have to wait.

        • So assuming the Ws don’t want to go over the lux tax line, does that mean that the Ws can trade a $3M exception for a $3M player, and not give anyone up?

        • The way you describe it, moto, it sounds like the best use for trade exceptions would be if the Ws wanted to reduce payroll by dumping pricy players for cheaper players.

          In the current situation, the trade exceptions would be useless unless the Ws find another team who simply wanted to quit paying someone. Is that right?

  40. @34

    Now Drue Holiday now down indefinitely. . . .

    • Lacob, when he took over the team, said he wanted to see Curry do a few more things. What that was had to be penetrate more and get to the line. That was the directive from Smart and it still stands. Lacob’s not alone. The idea is to have guards penetrate and drive or kick out in a controlled offense, what they must envision for Nedovic.

      What we’re seeing is point guards drop like flies.

      And it looks like there will be a lot of competition for backup point guards now, something GSW doesn’t have now, or yet.

      Curry is not an iron man (like Ellis, for example). But also he has special skills which should be exploited. And he should be protected with limited physical roles and limited playing minutes. He is much more effective picking his spots for drives and working in a moving, passing offense, which opens him and others up for shots, instead being turned into a bowling ball.

  41. Good news, bad news.

    The good news is it looks like Curry will make the All Star team, and likely will start.

    The bad news is that I’ll have to watch the All Star game this year. Unless he lights it up from the arc, he won’t show himself well in this type of game, as we saw in the rookie/soph game years ago, and possibly we’ll hear media drivel about his being overrated or whatever. Also, if things don’t change soon, he’ll be in sore need of a break that weekend.

    Couldn’t they just throw a parade or something for the players instead?

  42. 27 points for Seth last night, back with Santa Cruz (12-22, 3-7), 7 boards, 8 assists, 3 steals

    I’m not saying move him up, but I’d like to see him do well.

    • cosmicballoon

      I am going to the SC Warriors game tonight. Will let you know if Seth looks NBA ready.

      • Looking forward to your report. I suspect, however, the only way to find out if Seth is NBA ready is to play him good minutes in the NBA.

        The question as to who could help the club out better now, later in the schedule, or next season, Seth or Nedovic, is a dumb one, as the answer is neither. But there’s a point to be made in that. Still, I’d take what Seth represents, a shooter with a head.

      • Mem gave curry-lesser an opportunity and waived him — their requirements are most likely 3 point shooting and perimeter defense. anthony morrow has remained employed, despite mediocre d and almost nonexistent ball handling, but he’s bigger and can reliably get his shot off, contributes on the boards a bit. lack of size + lack of speed might be tough to overcome at guard.

        • I see Utah didn’t give Ian Clark much play and he has been sent down to Bakersfield D-league, where in a half dozen games he’s had mixed results.

          San Antonio stuck with Patty Mills, however, smaller than both though maybe a bit more rugged, a 55th. pick, and he has given them good minutes and scoring and helped give Parker some rest. Having a good bench around him I’m sure helps.

          • when SA beat Dal the other night, their starting guards combined played for less than 50 min, the three reserves close to 20 min. each. the preacher goes for games on end with his reserve guards combining for under ten min., sometimes under 5 min. popovich probably isn’t the only coach who could find productive minutes from douglas, and if he couldn’t get good use from bazemore by mid way in his second season, he’d be waived.

            bazemore not getting waived is a preliminary signal from the brain trust that they’re prepared to play out with the present roster unless forced to find temporaries due to injuries. if they’re not ready to trade one of the 6-7-8 spots on the roster, they can only get a minor role filler anyway. the preacher would rather run curry and thompson onto the inactive list than give douglas playing opportunities, and there’s no reason to think he’d treat a similar level player differently.

    • It’s not much to go on, but I became disillusioned with Bazemore (and Green, really) summer league, the few games I saw. The team couldn’t score, and those two should have stepped up. But Ian Clark came in the last games and turned things around in a flash. I can’t help wondering someone similar couldn’t help the bench.

      • Yeah, both of those guys need work on O.

        Green doesn’t seem to have a single go-to scoring move (very surprising for such an otherwise-accomplished player), and he’s shooting only .338 from 3 this season.

        Bazemore shoots only .288 from 3 – not acceptable for an NBA guard.

  43. Once more, here is the site that explains trade exceptions:


    Maybe Feltbot can put it in his stats links column for future reference by our better legal minds.

    I assume any trade the Warriors make using the TPE’s would be non-simultaneous, so see question #83, and there are many restrictions.

    It’s too damn complicated for me.

  44. Phoenix didn’t waste any time shoring up the team—Barbosa’s back (for 10 days). He’s been rehabbing in Brazil.

  45. I’m curious to see where Boston is a few years from now. They’re building for depth and versatility, and while they don’t have a dominant front court player, they have size and athleticism down the roster.

    It’s also the kind of team that should keep Bogut off the court. It’s no accident the Warriors built a lead with Green and Speights.

    Someone else comment on Barnes’ performance.

    • if one possession went differently, we could make a stronger case that Bos’ rookie coach outworked the preacher. fouling barnes in the final minute nearly pulled it out for the visitors.
      early in the fourth, green nearly accounted for nine points in three possessions, but speights missing the free throw after the great assist made it just eight — and no credit in the box score for the perfect screen that freed curry for his four point play.

  46. Jordan Crawford> Harrison Barnes
    Barnes was an absolute non-factor tonight. If he could only drive like Crawford. His problem seems that he camps way too much in the corner and never cuts to the basket when he doesn’t have the ball. He should be posterizing versus the telegraphed iso posting.

  47. Iggy had a great game last night. Heard him say a few games ago that Curry and Thompson helped him greatly with his three-point shot. Seemed to be indicating they told him to start 3 point shot with his arms down by waist. Made remarks on broadcast not made by Barndtt and Fitzgerald.

    Spurs defense based on funneling opponent’s offense to the strength of the defense. Rick Barry son said that. Said he learned more about basketball playing under Pop than any other coach.

    Don’t understand why coaches don’t have guard covering best shooter simply deny the shooter receiving a pass rather then settling for double teams.

    Hope Thompson’s inconsistency has not returned.. His decline in shooting percentage has steadily declined since beginning of season when he was best shooter in NBA and shooting the lights out. Still inconsistent finishing at rim.

    Boston’s small ball very effective against Warriors.

    Lack of bench has to be addressed.

    Are the Warriors really one of the top 5 teams in NBA?

    • Yes, your Golden State Warriors are presently a Top 5 Team in the entire NBA.

      The Ws – are in the conversation with the Miami Heat and the Indiana Pacers in the horrid east and San Antonio in the West. Including the Ws, that’s 4.

      The 5th team would be from OKC, Clips, Portland, and Houston.

      OKC without Westbrook is still very good, but beatable – see last year’s early playoff exit for evidence. With Westbrook, OKC moves up a couple spots. Probably top 2-3 with Westbrook, top 5-6 without Westbrook.

      Even WITH a healthy Chris Paul, I’ll take the Ws in a 7-game playoff series over the Clippers. Without their best and toughest player? Forget it…

      Up and coming Portland – beneficiaries of an easier early schedule, will be moving down a few spots very soon when their schedule catches up with them… Still too young and they don’t play much defense – this year.

      Houston. Potential to win the title. Like the Ws, have something to prove with their revamped roster – and an Asik trade should bring a nice asset or two. Currently trailing the Ws by a game. Time will tell.

  48. My two cents:

    – I think Curry should start side-stepping on his shots even when he’s open. Maybe have a teammate lunge at him too. Whatever he does, he should definitely avoid setting his feet. In all seriousness, while his game winner was impressive, it wouldn’t have been necessary had he not shot poorly again.
    -Barnes nearly accomplished the rare feat of fouling out of a game without ever being in it. I hope he’s not 100%…
    -Staggered substitutions! No Bazemore! And it only took 39 games!
    -Bizarre lack of Curry-Lee P&R. It’s like they keep rediscovering it’s the Ws most potent offensive weapon only to promptly forget 2 games later.
    -Brad Stevens is damn impressive.

  49. Weird game for the Ws last night, stats-wise. Props to Boston! The Celts don’t have a winning record, but they sure didn’t play like losers last night.

    Boston shot better than the Ws across the board, outrebounded them, and had 8 blocks to the Ws 0. Their defense held the Splash Bros to 12-35 shooting, Lee below .500, and Bogut 2-6.

    Boston doesn’t have the Ws overall talent, but they came into that game with a better game plan than the Ws had, they used what they had to best advantage and they did dictate the style of play. It certainly wasn’t a Warriors-style game last night. Tough, nasty. Slaps, punches and elbows. (FWIW, I totally supported Speights’ objections last night, and thought he shouldn’t have gotten a T. Instead, Humphries should have gotten several Ts, two of them just in that one altercation with Speights).

    As for the Ws game plan? Don’t we know better than isos for Barnes by now? He was 0-4. Why are we torturing Klay instead of running plays to get him shots? Where were the PnRs?

    The only thing that got the Ws the win last night was that Boston had more TOs and fouls. The Ws got just enough more scoring opportunities to escape with a win.

    Winners find a way, and the Ws are definitely winners. But the Celtics looked far better than their record. That game was in doubt down to the final seconds. Without Curry’s last-minute heroics, that was a Boston win. No thanks to his coach.

    • Nice recap Hat.

      On pins and needles waiting for the Ws Front Office to improve and strengthen the bench…

      I way underestimated Jack’s importance to this team as a back up point (I initially would have paid Jack, then threw Jack under the bus when Howard and Iguodala were potentially available) and way overestimated Toney Douglas’ ability to run the point (it’s only 10-15 minutes for Petey’s sake!).

      All the Ws “point guards” all have serious issues. We need a back up point in the worst way. Hope Curry doesn’t have to get injured, before the FO is forced to make a PG move…

      I enjoyed watching the Celtics Jeff Green – small ball 4 specialist. Streaky perimeter shooter. Green took Harrison off the ball twice for dunks, then near the very end of the game, blew past David Lee off the dribble for another dunk. I’d trade Harrison for Green – I’m hoping Harrison will develop into Jeff Green – and Harrison’s much cheaper…

  50. I made a few points about the game on twitter while watching it, that might be of interest.

    Jackson has been better strategically with his rotations and gameplans, but I felt he was very shaky tactically last night.

    1) 4+ minutes of Lee at center to close the game (good) without once going to Curry/Lee PNR (bad). As Don Nelson notably remarked recently, if you’re playing David Lee, you damn well better go to him on offense. And you go to him in PNR, which engages every single one of his talents (and Curry’s). NOT isos and postups against smaller and quicker players. Those have been so tempting for Mark Jackson this year… When will he realize that Lee is far better suited to attacking bigger and slower players in the post, than athletic stretch-fours? He’s made this same mistake all season long, most notably against the Thunder.

    Jim Barnett also made the same mistake before the game, predicting that Lee would have a big game against the smaller Boston fours. Proving that 40 years in and around the league doesn’t always lead to insight.

    Jackson DID go to Curry/Lee PNR on the last play of the game — leading to Curry’s clutch closing shot. (Not a closer?) I read in the post-game that Boston intended to blitz the play, but Lee set such a good pick on Bradley that they couldn’t. Lee dragged Bradley down the lane with him, leaving Curry iso’d on Humphries. So I guess that will please those who’ve fretted about Lee’s picks.

    Jackson said post-game that the Warriors were prepared for any scenario off the pick. Which I assume means that he was fine with David Lee getting the ball in the lane if Curry was blitzed. I’m fine with it too.

    2) That TO at the end of the game was atrocious. The Celtics were about to be forced into fouling Klay Thompson. Jackson subs Barnes (a poor FT shooter) and has the Warriors inbound to him. What could Jackson possibly be thinking here?

    Part of the problem is that the Warriors’ bench is completely bereft of small FT shooters. Something I’m not sure I’ve ever seen before.

    3) Toney Douglas looks completely lost on the court, and that’s down to Mark Jackson. He has Douglas trying to run offense, instead of simply doing what he does best: look for his own shot.

    Even Barnett pointed this out last night: “Toney Douglas has to look for his own shot once in a while too.”

    TD needs to be unleashed. If Jackson would just let TD run 2-man game with Speights at the top of the floor, he could explode. While getting Speights numbers too. Did you notice that great TD/Speights side pick and roll for a layup last night?

    Bazemore didn’t get a minute last night. Maybe Jackson is trying to hasten the Warriors trade for a backup point guard.

    • Bazemore’s going to ride lots of pine as the 5th best SG behind Curry, Klay, Iggy, and Tony Douglas. His best chance to play was as a PG, and he blew that one.

      I like the idea of this team running lots of pick and rolls – starters and back-ups.

  51. Bogutology 101 (cont.):

    I’m not interested in trashing Bogut, but pointing out his limitations. Boston is not deeply talented, but they are sizable, athletic, and versatile, like most of the top teams, and here Bogut’s strengths are neutralized, if the team isn’t weakened.

    I haven’t checked closely, but I suspect Boston scored as well with him on the court as when he sat. Except, of course, against the subs first half, when they scored at will (why is this a defensive unit?).

    But Boston also made a spurt 3rd. Q with Bogut in, that put them in the lead.

    And look what happened 4th. Q, when Bogut sat, when Curry and Iguodala played with the subs, the lead they built almost instantly that ensured the win.

    Just watch the middle graph line!


    It’s not just defense. Bogut will also have problems scoring against such a team. But for a few exceptions, it was hard for him to get open for anything other than the lob dunks. He’s not mobile enough to work his way through a defense comprised of such players.

    Speights, however, with good assistance, was able to penetrate as well as take some outside shots (how many? I’ve forgotten.)

    And he can knock down free throws.

    Yes, Bogut made a few nifty passes. I still wonder why he doesn’t put the ball up himself when he’s that close to the basket. He should be able to power it in.


    Bogut has limited range. Against such a team, who can attack from all over the court and spread the floor, Bogut can’t camp under the goal, and his shot blocking is neutralized. Also Humphries was able to draw him out with his outside shooting, effective last night, hard to defend by any big.


    We lost the rebound battle last night.

    So what.

    Many rebounds just aren’t that significant. As discussed before, many teams concede them. Many can be easily be grabbed by anyone standing near the bucket. But, yes, Bogut does get many because of his size, and several he fights for well.

    So the value of his 13 boards has to be cut by ones that we would have gotten anyway with another player on the court.

    Give Bogut credit, then for an extra 6 boards or so. But what are they worth? The team shot 41% last night. That translates into 4 extra points. But subtract from that Bogut’s limited contributions on offense, both his inability to score himself without assistance, and his inability to help open the court up for other players. Not much gain, in fact most likely a loss.

    • (finishing my thought)

      Against a more talented team the loss will be substantial.

      • Winning 11 of 12 in spite of Bogut? No appreciation here for one of the best big men in the game? Lol!

        Andrew Bogut does a LOT of things that posters on this blog don’t appreciate and don’t show up in stat sheets (much like Draymond Green and Andre Iguodala) – but are needed in order to win in the playoffs and onto an NBA title. Bogut – in my opinion – plays more like Marc Gasol without a jumper – but on this blog, I think I’m reading about Kendrick Perkins! Lol!

        And Nellie fans – do you think Nellie would sit Bogut? Or play him the shot blocker… As he did Manute, S. Bradley, Tyrone Hill, Chris Webber, etc.

        And the Ws starting five – are very impressive – statistically. A nice blend of offensive only players – Curry, Lee – defensive only players – Bogut – and two-way players – Iguodala and Klay. The schedule looks better and our players are healthier – and our opponents aren’t so much…

        What is the Ezeli’s health status? O’Neil? Why? Jared Sullinger. Audrey Blatche. You know, the greatest backup big men in the game that rang us up the last couple of games. Lol!

        • two days ago their coach gave his guesstimate on o’neal and ezeli — the elder was much closer to returning (and he’s not returning soon). highly unlikely that both are at full capacity for the Feb-Mar stretch run. deal making will probably heat up in Feb. SA might be in the market, with Splitter’s injury and limited back ups for Duncan/Leonard. Dedmon will probably be getting a ten day somewhere, but don’t count on him returning to the woeyrs just to sit on the preacher’s bench.

          • Thanks Moto! I’d think we’d need Ezeli’s athleticism, shot-blocking, size, defense, and rebounding (and not his hands) – for the stretch run and playoffs. I’d be happy with O’Neal back – from his interviews, it just sounds like he’s actually hungry to win a title.

        • The 12 game record, in fact, illustrates my point. Against middling opponents with limited offense (whom we should beat anyway); in rough, ugly games; against teams with big centers they rely on, such as Washington and Gortat, Bogut will be useful, but scarcely dominating.

          But against a playoff contender like Miami, Bogut can’t contribute much at all, and didn’t. 18 minutes, 6 points, and 3 boards.

          • Is your point that Bogut isn’t needed to win against really bad teams with no offense? I’ll agree with this – if you agree that a lot of other Ws players aren’t needed to beat these teams as well! That’s why they are bad teams. Lol!

            You’re probably right about small-ball Miami. The Ws can out small ball them – straight up. Miami doesn’t have a very good center in Birdman – now. Later? Miami might be in the running for Andrew Bynum. Who then guards Bynum? Hibbert? Howard? Duncan? Z-Bo? DeAndre/Griffin? Or protect the rim?

            Bogut is needed for the playoffs, when the games get physical and defense and tough rebounding is at a premium.

            Coach Jackson gives Curry the easier defensive assignments for a reason – he’s not a good defender – and saves Curry energy for what he does best: OFFENSE.

            Can David Lee – a brilliant offensive player/challenged defensive player – be expected to play both sides of the ball? And still be brilliant offensively? Lee has rested on defense his entire career! Lol!

            Again, the Dallas Mavericks couldn’t win an NBA title until they acquired a legitimate big man (defense/rebounding) in Tyson Chandler… Cuban ruined Nowitzki’s chances for ever repeating by letting Tyson go in pursuit of Deron and Dwight. Tyson Chandler was key in winning that championship…

            This is why the Monta Ellis trade needed to be done and was an absolute grand theft larceny for the Ws… The Ws were in the lottery and are now on track for a 55-60 win season! The Bucks are now in the outhouse shooting for Andrew Wiggins! Udoh who?

  52. Who would you rather have, Barnes or the Greek Freak? His latest freakish performance:


    • FeltbotsFakeGirlfriend

      Did you even watch the game? I did he was not nearly as impressive as the stat line. He is very raw and he can be overly aggressive which leads to lots of turnovers and mistakes on defense. He is shooting 32% in January. He will never come close to being the 2nd coming of Kevin Durant as you suggested.

    • No, I didn’t see the game, but box scores like that don’t come along very often for rookies. Can you tell me who he guarded?

      He’ll never be the shooter that Durant is, but he’s already a better ballhandler, passer, defender, shotblocker, and rebounder. At 19.

      And Durant didn’t play very well either as a rookie. Certainly didn’t shoot well.

      GA’s up to 6-10.5 now. Grown an inch and a half since the draft.

      Incredible hoops IQ, incredible talent. He’s going to be a major star. I’m absolutely certain of it.

      • FeltbotsFakeGirlfriend

        He tried to guard Durant unsuccessfully although he did block his shot once. He was also on Lamb and Sefolosha. His offensive hoops IQ is great I will give you that. But he looks lost on the defensive end. Gambles way too much got burned and several crossovers and he loses his man frequently which led to quite a few easy buckets for the Thunder. He has no 3point shot either.

        • He does have a three point shot, and until the last two games, was shooting a better percent on them than the rookie Kevin Durant did. Despite having a far more inconsistent role, and far less of a green light to shoot.

          If you go to youtube and watch him shoot threes, it’s pretty clear at least to me that he will develop into a plus shooter from beyond the arc.

    • If nicknames count for anything, the Greek Freak definitely catches one’s attention more than the Falcon…

  53. Who was it who said they wouldn’t want DJ Augustin on the Warriors?


    I think he’d be worth a +5 to them at a minimum, if used anything close to correctly (not a given).

  54. Man, I’m tired of sitting on my hands. I’d settle for juicy trade rumors now. But I suspect what we’ll find is that the Warriors have little leverage on the trade market and really can’t compete, what we knew going into the season. They have no significant draft picks to offer, no significant trade pieces, unless you count Barnes or the unthinkable, breaking up the starters, and no sizable expiring contracts.

    You can’t swing for the fences with a toothpick.

    Ken Berger talks about what it would take to get Lowry:

    “With the deadline less than seven weeks away, Ujiri is said to have multiple deals he could do for Lowry that would involve receiving an expiring contract in return or slotting him into another team’s trade exception. Taking back future salary would come at a high price, i.e. a first-round pick.”

    Sacramento, at least, has been aggressive:

    “But Kings GM Pete D’Alessandro’s true long-term target is said to be Warriors sharpshooter Klay Thompson, who will be a restricted free agent after next season.”


    Which I hope by no stretch of any imagination will happen.

    • that is poor reporting on Sac’s intentions re. thompson. d’Alessandro can’t know until after next season if thompson intends to become a restricted free agent unless he’s tampered with the player and/or his father. the lacobites can preemptively extend thompson, and only if their offers are rejected would they make a qualifying offer that results in restricted free agent status for the player.

      barnes going sideways this season is actually a positive factor in eliminating a mistake the lacobites would make if they believed him to be the franchise wing along with iguodala. trading thompson is still a possibility only because they have so few assets to substantially improve the roster with, but they have failed to develop another solid source for three point shooting.

  55. Sacramento are only one SG away from having a better team than the Warriors.

    Charlotte fans cheering for Augustin when the team was outscored with him on the court and committed 3 turnovers and only one steal is hardly worth cheering about.

    Looks to me that the Warriors have at least 4 players on their D-league that are much better than 4 players currently on the Warriors roster.

    • warriorsablaze

      It would have to be the best SG in the league to create a 12 game win swing in 39 games. As it stands, the W’s record isn’t representative of our potential since we were missing one of our top 3 players for several weeks.

      They have a few good pieces if Malone can pull it together… but they aren’t even close and adding a SG isn’t going to close the gap.

      • Agreed add a 12-game swing – PLUS an additional 6+ games… The Chicago Bulls play more crap Eastern Conference games and Golden State more quality Western Conference games… And we all know how well the W’s did on their last Eastern Conference road swing…

        It wasn’t long ago that it was said that the Orlando Magic was a player away…

    • are you comparing the s.cruz ‘warriors’ to the parent team ‘warriors’, Frank –which four d-league players do you mean ?

    • As Skip Bayless would say, Frank, your Sacramento comment is asinine. Are you saying Thomas is better than Curry? Or that Jason Thompson is better than Lee? And would you rather have Rudy Gay or Klay Thompson? I respectfully disagree that even the best SG in the league would make the Kings better than the Warriors.

  56. Some love for Bogut at Boxscoregeeks.com

    • The arguments against Bogut aren’t that he can’t do some things well, but that he has limited value and that the offense shouldn’t be built around him, as I believe originally was the plan.

      Then there’s the issue of whether what he does is worth his contract, whether the money couldn’t have been better spent. His first contract, saddled with Jefferson’s, cost the team the ability to sign other players and diversify the roster, whose experience is sorely needed now. The bailout last summer cost the team draft picks.

      And we’ll be holding our breath about his ability to stay on the court the next 3-1/2 seasons.

      • Who ever said that the W’s offense should be built around Andrew Bogut?

        And Bogut is a much better offensive player than people here give him credit for. High basketball IQ player, unselfish, excellent passer, and finishing at a high percentage (no jumpers). If anything, this W’s team doesn’t cut enough – because Bogut will find them on the pass…

        When Bogut was at his best and healthiest – he was only a 12 points per game scorer in Milwaukee. Up that average a little for increased pace – Milwaukee half court, Warriors run more – and that’s it.

      • In the words of the great Jules Winnfield, “Allow me to retort.”

        Saying Bogut has limited value doesn’t distinguish him from anyone else on this roster to include the brilliant Curry, the versatile Iguodala, and the never-say-die Lee. Unless your name is Lebron James or Chris Paul, you have flaws. Bogut cannot challenge the high PnR effectively, cannot get you a consistent 20 points out of a post-up game, and cannot hit free throws at a good rate. You put that against utter brilliance at every other defensive thing he does and great screening, passing, and efficiency (albeit low usage) on offense. I’m not coming up with limited value. And I never, ever heard anyone say the offense should be built around him.

        You are muddying the waters by mixing he and Jefferson’s transactions. They happened at the same time but Bogut didn’t cause Jefferson, an unwillingness to deal with Stephen Jackson caused Jefferson. There was some argument to be had with the idea of spending the Bogut money elsewhere if the Harden for Klay rumours were true but that has been disputed by many and I think an objective observer would call that a draw between wishful thinking and legitimate possibility. Now look at what did happen with the Bogut trade: An exemplary playoff from Bogut. The freeing of Curry (via deletion of Ellis.) An even more exemplary season from Bogut this year. As #FullSquad shows (what is it now, 20-4?) the idea we would be in better shape with something other than Bogut is highly speculative. Also, the draft picks you mention were for Iguodala, not Bogut. Bogut’s salary impact last summer would have existed with whatever we did instead of Bogut like the max extension to Harden (or are you still pining for Ellis and Udoh?)

        Finally, as to his health and holding your breath for the next three and a half years. Fair enough but how does that distinguish him from Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobli, Dwayne Wade, and Kobe Bryant? He’s healthy now, pissing off prima-donnas like Blake Griffin, and making a huge impact in semi-limited minutes on a team that is a legitimate threat to get to the finals. Let’s give him his due.

  57. Sorry for the delay on this. I attended the Santa Cruz Warriors game on Friday night — was very interested in Seth Curry’s game.

    Seth was the primary ball handler for the SC Warriors for much of the game. He has many similarities to Steph, but without the quickness. On offense he has a variety of shots — midrange J, 3-point range and a floater. He plays below the rim. He is able to control and run an offense, and he was able to get to his spots on the floor and make decent passes. Nothing flashy, but solid on offense.

    Defensively, Seth was sooo slow. His lateral movement is terrible compared to the man he was guarding. It seemed like he has good instincts, though, and recovers pretty well, rather than reaching. Also, his rotations were very good and Maine did not get off many good three point looks.

    My overall evaluation of Seth is that he is a slower, and less lethal version of his brother. However, he may be able to function as a backup point guard in the league if he cuts down on mistakes. I think he has good enough vision and court sense.

    Cameron Jones should probably get a look in Golden State before Seth does. That guy is biding his time in the D-League. I like his scoring ability and the passion he plays with on offense and defense.

    • I fear those may be the final words on Seth, though he might work out with better players. Then again, how well could he handle pressure from the NBA, blitzes, etc.?

      I was curious about Jones as well, and how he might compare with Nedovic. I suspect it’s hard, however, to judge NBA talent in the D-league, especially the larger players since there aren’t many.

      We won’t well how well they’ll run point on a NBA team until they’ve spent some time doing it. But that’s why you get them early and bring them up slowly, as other teams have done.

      • Thanks Cosmic – time to reunite the true “Splash Brothers!” Like Dell and Stephen, Seth has the deep shooting gene. Perhaps Seth just needs to latch on to a team with a dominant player that allows him to play off the ball. Steve Kerr like. And just shoot.

  58. In Jerry West I Trust.

    Andrew Bogut is Jerry West’s guy. West gave Myers the tip that the Bucks were willing to deal him. Jerry West knows from his NBA playing career that you can’t win an NBA title without a LEGITIMATE big man – West only won a title with Wilt Chamberlin by his side and lost almost every year in the NBA Finals without one… Lost to a team with a great one…

    When Jerry West was a GM – Jerry ALWAYS had a great big man. ALWAYS. Kareem, O’Neal, Pau Gasol, etc. Divac, Thompson Sr., etc.

    Sure – the NBA game has changed considerably – in part, thanks to people like our beloved Nellie. But the game hasn’t changed THAT much.

    Jerry West loves size at every position. And size matters.

    If Andrew Bogut is the best big man the W’s can acquire? So be it. I’ll live with the consequences.

    I too would have tried to get Dwight Howard if that was even possible because Dwight is better/healthier and a good franchise shouldn’t ever pass up these kind of marquee big men = and even Bogut realizes this. Perpetually injured (shooting elbow), Bogut’s still one of the top centers in the game. Even without a jumper… And no free throwing ability sans elbow injury…

    In Jerry West I Trust.

    • 1) Do you have any evidence that Jerry West had something to do with the Bogut signing? If so, I would enjoy seeing it.

      2) I like the 2013/14 Bogut a lot myself, but I think a better case can be made for him than the one you made.

      Jerry West also lost two Finals with Wilt Chamberlain to a team playing a 6-9 235 converted PF at center, alongside a 6-6 220 PF.


      Not to mention the one they lost to a rather well known 6-10 215 lb. center.

      3) West was extremely fortunate to be the GM of a free-agent mecca franchise that could attract the Jabbars and O’Neals. Not to mention Kobe Bryant, whom he never would have been able to draft without the outright extortion of Rick Pitino and others by Bryant and his agent.

      It is quite possible, given the limited number of franchise centers available, that all other franchises, like OKC and San Antonio and Portland and Dallas, are better off working from a different model.

      • 1) Evidence? Lol! I watched a video of then-Assistant GM Myers where he discussed how the W’s got the initial wind of Milwaukee’s interest in dealing Andrew Bogut – he reported it was through Jerry West/via an agent – And Myers was tasked to work out this deal (even though Riley was the ACTING GM) – which was then brought to W’s Front Office (all approved) and onto Joe Lacob – who approved the deal. There are tons of Jerry West interviews where he says, “Bogut is the third best center in the NBA” and that there was little risk in this trade in his opinion as well as where Jerry West stated that Monta Ellis is undersized at SG…

        2) Make a better case for Bogut? On this blog? Keep in mind – so many posters on this blog believed and some still believe that the acquisition of Bogut/S. Jackson was ridiculous and the loss of Monta Ellis/Ekpe Udoh catastrophic… Now? Not so much… Hundreds of posts. There is no bigger proponent of Bogut on your blog than me – for better or worse.

        3) West was “extremely fortunate?” Lol!

        Jerry West is clearly Mr. Basketball – the NBA Logo – for a reason that has nothing to do with extreme fortune… College. Olympics. NBA Superstar/Champion Player. 6 NBA championships with the Lakers as GM. First playoff birth for the Memphis Grizzlies where he won NBA Executive of the year as a SMALL MARKET GM (not in Hollywood).

        And finally – when the Oakland Tribune (I think) asked fans what could the W’s do to turn around the franchise? I wrote a lengthy comment – to HIRE JERRY WEST…

        There’s no coincidence in my mind about the day Jerry West was brought on – and the smarter basketball decisions that have been made by the W’s Front Office since then.

        No disrespect to Riley and Lacob/son and all the W’s brass – but they struggled to make deals/trades/free agent signings pre-West… The trade deadline of Troy Murphy comes to mind… They just didn’t have the NBA connections, wealth of experience, draft acumen, and respect – that the Logo – commands…

        I’m just here for the amazing basketball and feel lucky Joe Lacob had the sense to bring in the Logo…

        In Jerry West I Trust.

        • You haven’t provided any evidence West is anything other than a figurehead for the team, with minimal influence. I would like you to meet the challenge and provide evidence to the contrary. I haven’t seen any.

          I would also like to see exactly what West wants for the team in terms of roster and strategy so we can see his influence and this can be debated—I’m skeptical.

          I do remember this, however, that West voiced reservations about Deandre Jordan, but he was pursued anyway. And prior to the draft, he said athleticism alone doesn’t make a good player, but Barnes was drafted anyway as well.

  59. With regard to Sacramento. I just think that Thomas, Gay and Cousins are overall better than Curry, Thompson, and Bogut. By position, I would say that Thomas-Fredette is better than Curry-Douglas, that Gay-Thompson may be a wash, although I prefer Gay. Cousins is twice as good as Bogut, and Lee is better than Thompson but not by a lot as Thompson is having great year.

    The players on the D-league team that are better than players on the Warrior roster players are: Dedmon is better than Speights by far, C. Jones is better than Bazemore, S. Curry is better than Nedovic, Armstrong is better than Kuzmic (both not much). And Lei (sp?) may be better than Bazemore as well.

    • warriorsablaze

      Come on, Frank… I know you’re thing is to be negative on the Dubs, but your comparisons are silly. Lee is better than Thompson but “not by a lot”?!?!? 19 and 9 vs. 7 and 6? Thompson isn’t exactly a defensive powerhouse, so he isn’t making up for it on the other end.

      I’m a big Thomas fan, but the gap between Curry and Thomas is huge. Jimmer is slightly above Douglass on offense, but miles below him in defense. Honestly, the PG position isn’t close between these two teams. Cousins is definitely a much better scorer than Bogut (though still generally inefficient), but a horrible defender, where Bogut makes his difference. I’d still rather have Bogut at this point, but if Cousins continues to become more controlled, that may change in a year or two.

      Point being, Sac has some raw talent, but overall they are still way below the Warriors in talent.

    • frank,

      I honestly can’t tell if you are serious with your posts or if you just throw stuff out there to get a rise out of people. Per Basketball-Reference.com:
      Curry/Thomas: TS% is close enough to be a wash. Turnovers is in Isaiah’s favor. Rebounds, Assist, Steals, Blocks, and Points Per Possession (PPP) Differential are all in Curry’s favor.

      Cousins/Bogut: Rebounding is a wash. Assists, Steals, Turnovers is in Cousins favor. TS%, Blocks, are in Bogut’s favor. PPP Differential is wildly in Bogut’s favor.

      Gay/Thompson: Gay bests Thompson on TS% (surprising), rebounding, assists, steals, and blocks. Thompson is better on turnovers and PPP Differential.

      They eye-test? Curry gets the full and undivided attention of the other team’s defense including double-teams and overall scheming designed to negate his effectiveness. He still performs better than Thomas. Cousins is obviously a more skilled offensive player but a horrendous defensive player. Bogut is a better offensive player than Cousins is a defensive player and I think that is reflected in the PPP Differential of +17 for Bogut and +7 for Cousins. What is surprising to me is that Gay shows well this season statistically although Klay gets much harder defensive assignments than Gay and Klay spaces the floor better.

      From where I sit, Gay/Thompson is a wash (best-case for Sacramento), Bogut bests Cousins, and Curry comfortably outdistances Thomas. It doesn’t look better adjusted for value (max contracts for Gay, near-max for Cousins, rookie contract for Thomas versus less-than-max contracts for Bogut/Curry, rookie contract for Thompson. To summarize: I disagree with your take.

      • cosmicballoon

        Frank, I agree with you about Cousins being better than Bogut. Not only does he have a better upside, he can actually dominate a game on the offensive end. In fact, Cousins and Al Jefferson are probably the best back to the basket players in the league, with Brook Lopez a close third when healthy. Cousins doesn’t care about defense, but I think in another year or two he may get his priorities straight (and stop being a total idiot on the court). When he decides he actually wants to win, he will far outpace Bogut.

        You are WAY off base on Curry and Klay Thompson. Also, DLee is far more effective and consistent than T. Thompson.

        By the way, it’s the Warriors who are in first place in the Pacific…

    • warriorsablaze

      Nice… Klay can be a space cadet sometimes but I never doubt his effort…. and the fact that dude is an ironman who hasn’t missed any games in his career (I believe). If he can keep improving his consistency, he could become the player you’ve been talking about all this time, Felt.

  60. Bogutology 101 (cont.)

    youtired et al. @58, about Bogut being the central piece of the offense—

    While the following is spoken by an anonymous Pacific scout and Bogut himself at the time of the Bogut trade, I am close to certain the same was said by Lacob, Meyers, and others of the brain trust, maybe West himself, and if I get industrious, I’ll track it down:

    Bogut said you’ll see him handling the ball, crossing over defenders, looking for a cutting teammate. You’ll see him facing up and creating his own shot. Arguably his best offensive skill is his passing.

    But perhaps most important to the Warriors, Bogut said you’ll see his low-post game produce. He said he feels comfortable getting the ball on the block and making a play, especially with the game on the line.

    “He’s an adequate scorer, good with both hands,” the Pacific Division scout said, adding, “He’ll change the dynamic of the team from being a perimeter-based team with a lot of pick and rolls to having a true center you can go down low to. He can command a double team and open up space for the shooters.”

    from MT II’s piece at the time of the trade


    None of these things is remotely true. He has no post-up game, he can’t create shots for himself, he doesn’t draw double teams. I recall one of the brain trust saying they’ll pass to Bogut and he’ll draw defenders, and he’ll kick it out to our open shooters. This hasn’t happened. Defenders play Bogut soft and double team Curry. Not only can Bogut not run such an offense, it’s a bad strategy for the talent on this team. And, as Feltbot has been arguing until he’s blue in the face, the pick and roll is the most effective offense for this team.

    Yet it does represent a shift in offensive strategy we’ve seen all along, and it is one reason for the Bogut qualifications made above. Note Smart tried to post up Biedrins his year until he went down, which I assume came by mandate, and the team did move away from pick and roll and tried to post up Lee this season as well. The team wants to play big ‘n low, and it’s a mistake and it’s not working, and it’s not clear the brain trust has given it up.

    There are other reasons to qualify the value of Bogut (maybe not yours).

    It’s been argued he should play crunch time, or when teams go small, and we don’t know the team has yet abandoned this questionable strategy.

    Many, including posters on this site, have argued that with a healthy Bogut we could move Barnes up and trade Lee.

    While Bogut can’t be faulted for the expensive trade, the team got stuck with it and this deal is part of a larger picture of the brain trust putting most of their money into centers at the expense of the rest of the roster. Kwame Brown, not amnestying Biedrins, a roster littered with questionable prospects, such as Tyler. Lacob has not put serious money into any other player other than Iguodala, and I don’t count Landry and Jack because they were one-year rentals. We’re talking tens and tens of millions of dollars that have seized the cap and could have been spent better. And timing is important: if Lacob directs all his energies into getting a center, it means other deals will be passed over trade time. Think of the failed and futile efforts for Howard, Chandler, and Jordan, all the other players who weren’t considered then.

    I can’t believe a more intelligent FO couldn’t have found a better trade for Ellis.

    What Bogut has to be measured against are alternative players, say a sizable, versatile 4 to play alongside Lee. This has never been tried. If Speights had higher bball IQ, the duo would be explosive and they wouldn’t give up that much on defense. Landry doesn’t count because he was smallish and, again, is gone. Then add some kind of OK but affordable center, and I would say they’ve had luck here, except O’Neal and Ezeli are injured. Speights, however, works as a backup center. And there would still be money left over to develop the bench.

    The brain trust has, in fact, modified its message to fit reality. The message now is that Bogut doesn’t need to score much, that his value as a defender offsets his offensive liabilities. This one is worth full debate, and I question it as well.

    Actually, I don’t know what color Feltbot’s face is.

    • Jerry West was spot on here…


      Jerry West/W’s Front Office drafted Klay Thompson to pair with Stephen Curry and replace “undersized” Monta Ellis (isolate Stephen as the team’s ball-dominator/playmaker). Dealt Monta Ellis to acquire center Andrew Bogut – the third best center in the NBA…

      The results are speaking for themselves… #2 and #3 Power Rankings (SI and ESPN)?

      In Jerry West I Trust

      • I’m surprised you haven’t mentioned Bogut’s 3 point shooting. He has the best average on the team since coming to the Warriors. He is, in fact, perfect.

        You haven’t addressed a single issue in this comment. Bogut did not come as billed. He can’t do anything he said he could do. And he can’t be considered a dominant center unless he can be a dominant scorer himself. About the only way he scores is when he gets open for dead dunks, though, as FB pointed out, the team is finally feeding him on the run, and this is working, on odd occasion.

        He certainly can’t do this:

        “He’ll change the dynamic of the team from being a perimeter-based team with a lot of pick and rolls to having a true center you can go down low to. He can command a double team and open up space for the shooters.”

        And I’m curious. Whose idea is that? Is it West’s? If so, he was completely wrong about Bogut and it’s a bad strategy for the talent on the team.

  61. I think Gay is better than Thompson. They shoot about the same eFG%. But Gay has double the number of FTA, offensive rebounds, defensive rebounds, and more steals and block shots per game.

    Lee and the Kings Thompson shoot about the same FG percentage. Thompson gets less playing time, but when Lee-Green is compared to Thompson-Williams, the PF position is a wash offensively, as Williams is a much better shooter than D. Green is.

    I never said that Thomas is better than Curry as has been portrayed by some posters. I said Thomas-Fredette is batter than Curry-Douglas. Keep in mind Fredette shoots 54 percent from the field.

    Still say Cousins much better than Bogut who provides little ability to provide weak side help.

    After watching the Kings offensive and defense, I do think that the Jackson’s staff is much better than Malone and company.

  62. Dedmon to work out with the Sixers.

    Among all the center prospects in the Warrior revolving door, was he not worth a second look?

    • More Dedmon highlights. Highlights, I know, but he can motor and looks agile and that shot looks pretty smooth:

    • questions about players who’ve played for the s.cruz team should be directed to K.Lacob. the team has three or more consecutive off days in three different weeks between the present and early Feb., so signing anyone to a ten day contract would not be practical unless they needed bodies to fill up the 5 on 5 practice sessions. last season, the team gave the preacher the final veto for the roster spots at the end of the bench, and he seemed very reluctant to give dedmon minutes when he was on the roster of fifteen.

      Brk and LA/bussies were both successful in finding reserve guards from the d-league, and there are probably other teams not on our radar who had similar success. Phx secured their former player from Brasil when they lost their starting lead guard. the lacobites committed to the two euro rookies and bazemore, but of all the reserves it was probably Mr. Barnes going sideways that missed their expectations the most.

  63. Lacob has made it abundantly clear he has the overriding say in almost all decisions. What will be hard to infer from the evidence is how much he has directed strategy and coaching, as I imply @63. I do note, however, that Jackson has contradicted much he said while an independent announcer, while not on the Lacob payroll:

    “That’s not set offense, that’s getting a rebound and pushing the ball down the throat of the defense.” – Mark Jackson on the Heat offense against the Lakers, midseason.

    “Don’t try to walk it up, that’s when they were a bad team. Put pressure on the defense by pushing it down their throat. You have the best players in the world, force the issue offensively.” — More Mark Jackson from the same game.

    “Absolutely not. We will push the basketball. We will look to make plays in transition.” – Jackson when asked whether he will move the Warriors away from their up-and-down style (interview at NBA Finals).

    “The Warriors are doing the defense a favor whenever they post up Biedrins or Lee.” – Jackson doing a Warriors v. Heat regular season game. Yes, he repeated himself.

    “I don’t want Steph Curry or Monta Ellis to be Mark Jackson…. These two guys’ greatest strength is scoring the basketball.” – Mark Jackson on PTI.

    from our boss’s post when Jackson was announced:


  64. I don’t have the link but excellent article on the Warriors on Grantland today called ‘Why Not The Warriors’…..

    • Here:


      And I question several claims:

      “the defense dies without Andrew Bogut”

      This simply isn’t true. We’ve seen all season Bogut is less effective against smaller, versatile lineups, of which Miami is the greatest example.

      “Harrison Barnes can work in all sorts of lineups”


      Though he does note this, and we’re left wondering why this strategy is pursued:

      “They go through puzzling bouts of stagnancy for a team blessed with brilliant passing all over the floor. The Warriors post up a lot, even though their post-ups produce a middling scoring efficiency, per Synergy Sports.”

      As to getting more players:

      “The only question on that front is, how hard do they want to swing? They can get a scrap heap guy for basically nothing, but if they want a game-changer, they’ll have to think hard about including their 2019 first-round pick or one of Barnes and Thompson.”

      • The underlying theme of this article is a middling report on the job Mark Jackson and his staff has done.

        Lowe praises the defense, including the scheme that hides Curry’s weaknesses. He does not actually address David Lee’s defensive weaknesses, although I think he has written about them in the past.

        He discussion about how the offense stalls after the first pick and roll is brilliant, although I can’t lump Thompson and Barnes together as ball stoppers. I will be paying more attention to Thompson to see if he indeed does stop the ball, or if there are simply no more options when he does get the ball. Warriors need an offensive consultant. Calling George Karl!

        • thompson is fine when he takes his immediate shot, makes his move or pass, will struggle if the defense denies it, or when he’s tentative from his shot not going in and the team is under time and/or score pressure. fans will get frustrated when they think he just keeps ‘gunning away’ when he’s been missing, but going with the immediate move or shot is the strongest option. Mr. Barnes is simply too deliberate, appears mentally unprepared. with a healthy foot/toe last season, he still had four or fewer rebounds in 51 of his 81 games ; the season’s overall numbers look better because he had more games of ten boards plus compared to this year. pain-free or not, his focus is unreliable. ironically, it’s thompson who’s supposed to be too fond of herbs, while Mr. Barnes seems so correct and proper, the one recruited by condie rice and the dean of Duke’s law school.

          when the fans or pundits project that barnes could fit into any system, they’re just imagining another coach than the preacher. if barnes’ stagnation continues another year, and lacob wants to extend the preacher’s tenure, they’ll need to accept that their ‘dream wing’ could do better elsewhere.

    • Beat me to it Goose, thanks. I might quibble with a few small points, but overall a superb piece. One might almost think Lowe’s been reading me. He’s certainly viewing the team through the same eyes that I do. Not to mention the eyes of some posters here — note his discussion of underused hybrid lineups.

      Loved Bogut’s take on the turnover problem. (This poker player discerns he likes his alley oops.)

      And Myers take on David Lee is dead on. He appears to be talking about that mysterious “chemistry” thing, doesn’t he? If he’s waiting for Lauridsen and Strauss and the other ignorati to throw in the towel on Lee, though, it’ll be a cold day in hell…

      • GooseLosGatos


        this is off topic but have been wanting to get your opinion on this for a while. I’ve contended that as great a player as Kobe Bryant is – he’s extremely overrated by the media & most NBA fans – it’s taboo amongst the media to say anything bad about Kobe as his ‘image’ personifies every cheesy and often incorrect sports cliche known to man.

        Since 2004 he’s been an OK defender (very good when he wanted to be) which a invalidates the accuracy & authenticity of the All NBA Defensive Team Awards.

        He’s never been a hugely efficient shooter despite his prodigious scoring numbers.

        There were too many times where he had ‘Allen Iverson Syndrome’ & the offense had to work around Kobe.

        His ‘clutchness’ at end of games is more Nike/media myth-making than anything else. I think his end of game shot% is around 25% where Jordan & Lebrons hover in the 50% range.

        The two last titles he won were with a Powerhouse team in their prime (Gasol, Odem Artest (healthy Bynum), etc.

        But most damming of all, when it was just him and Odem on that team in 2007 (I think), the Lakers were only 2 games above 500. I could name numerous other players off the top of my head (Kidd, Paul, Lebron obviously, Nash, etc) who I believe paired with Odem who could have gotten a better record.

        To me, this is a classic ‘forest from the trees’ perception problem. I’m not a Kobe hater – I thought he could be better than MJ when he got into the league but the disparity in the perception of Kobe & the reality is wide.

        Your take….

        • Never been a fan of Kobe. Your observations are spot on. In my opinion, one of the most selfish players in history. He’s obsessed with his legacy vis a vis Jordan, and especially with the scoring title. I can’t stand watching him freeze out his teammates.

  65. Bleacher Report reviews available talent:


    Including, of course, Reggie. Quotes:

    Williams has the versatility to play both the 2 and the 3 and has legitimate three-point range, which makes him a tough matchup.

    Then, Golden State drafted Klay Thompson in 2011 and already had a developing star in Stephen Curry coming along. That made Williams somewhat expendable.

    What followed was a two-year stint with the Charlotte Bobcats. Absent of any complementary talent or any organizational infrastructure, Williams’ numbers declined across the board.

    • If they picked up Reggie and he returned to the form we saw and he replaced Barnes, he could turn the subs around in a week or so.

      1. He’s a versatile scorer who will help keep the subs on the floor.

      2. He will draw defenders, and he handles the ball and passes well, so could find other players.

      3. He could find Douglas, and help get him going.

      4. He could find Speights for drives or shots.

      5. If the ball goes to Green, he’d have someone to pass to.

      And it wouldn’t cost anything at all, except a roster slot, in short supply.

      • Interesting example of valuing way too highly players you used to have and who had a marginal impact on wins and losses. So, Reggie is the missing piece that will lead to a championship?

        • Whether or not RW is that player, I don’t think it’s a stretch to believe that the right 6th man could transform this Warriors team from very good to great.

          • Feltbot:

            I agree with you there. I just get a kick out of all the recycling of marginal players that go on when trade deadlines loom.

        • Actually, Reggie had a huge impact on a seriously challenged roster and at least kept them competitive. Look at the game logs.

          But what I said is that he would be a cheap experiment with a huge upside and no loss. Lacob & assos. aren’t even looking in that direction.

          • Also, I’m working under this assumption, that Lacob won’t make any expensive moves, and really he has limited leverage. Some kind of point guard + Reggie, if he panned out, could make a significant difference without paying much.

            A fine point guard plus a good 6th man would make this team deadly. Lacob will never do this.

          • “Lacob & assos. aren’t even looking in that direction.”

            We don’t know that.

            Among today’s available FAs, Reggie could be a real standout (assuming he’s healthy), and he won’t be getting the kind of mid-level deal that took him to Charlotte. That makes him a (possible) bargain, something the Ws would definitely look into.

            Besides the health Q, as far as I can see the only reason the Ws might not consider RW is his poor rep for D. If “this is a defensive team,” and “we have plenty of shooters,” Reggie wouldn’t be high on Myers’ list. Right or wrong, RW’s rep for D flies in the face of the Ws often-stated team identity.

            As a practical matter, though, the 2nd team does need more firepower, and as FB has pointed out, hiding one weakish defender on that squad should not be terribly difficult. No matter what Jackson bleats about D to the press, Lacob/Myers and co. have proven to be fairly practical about acquisitions.

          • Given how fragile the opportunities to win it all are, I’d advocate the big splash. With the right addition, it may very well be the Warriors’ year.

        • The same argument could be made about Steph not helping much in wins and losses that year. But Reggie only played in about two dozen games and was prominent in 9 of the team’s total 26 wins.

  66. Grantland video has Bill Simmons and Jalen Rose running down the top teams in the NBA with a chance to win it all.

  67. The thought just occurred to me: Given the brain trust’s lack of trade pieces, tight cap, unwillingness to open its purse, and commitment to Barnes, the most likely trade piece may well be Speights, who works in a straight up trade for Hinrich. Speights might be attractive to Chicago as a scoring big. After Barnes’, his is the most expensive contract on the books.

    O’Neal + Douglas works as well, who would only be attractive as expiring contracts.

    Hard to believe other teams couldn’t offer something better, however and I’m not that excited about Hinrich.

  68. Reggie Williams highlights (I can’t help it—I enjoyed watching him play as much as many players on the roster). Note the blocks, the passes, the fakes to get shots off, and especially his going into traffic, either shooting or driving:

    • Barnes wins a foot race and the high jump, but he is nowhere near as quick as Reggie in seeing the court and moving around it, not even on defense, in finding an opening and getting a shot off. And the hoop, after all, is only 10 feet high.

    • warriorsablaze

      I don’t you’ll anyone here who didn’t like Reggie and would love to see him on the team…. however, those highlights are 3-4 years old. There doesn’t seem to be much evidence to suggest he fully recovered from his injury and that he can still play at that level. Would love for the Warriors to give him a workout to find out where he’s at.

  69. More D-league prospects:


    Go to the box on the right to see players by position, e.g. point guards.

  70. “You haven’t provided any evidence West is anything other than a figurehead for the team, with minimal influence. I would like you to meet the challenge and provide evidence to the contrary. I haven’t seen any.”

    RE: Jerry West’s influence on the W’s. Here’s what I come up with rgg.

    1) Joe Lacob and the ownership group extended Jerry “The Logo” West an OWNERSHIP INTEREST in the W’s Franchise. Not some $1 million/year figurehead position. Ownership. You don’t make someone an owner of a franchise just to sit around and tell stories.

    2) And the current W’s GM Bob Myers? Yes, DEFINITELY one of Jerry West’s “guys…”

    3) Klay Thompson? Yes, Klay was DEFINITELY Jerry West’s guy. Genius pick. Kawhi Leonard is great too…

    4) The Bogut/Ellis trade had Jerry West’s fingers all over it. Jerry hammering the fact that Ellis is an undersized SG and West prefers size at every position.

    5) Size at every position? Jerry West.

    6) How the pieces “fit” together? Jerry West.

    • we can’t know the size of the stake that West was granted in the team. we have to put any comments he makes about the team and its players in context of his opinions before and after he was a minority owner in the team, and in context of what he’s said about various players both before and since becoming a part owner.

      my impression, he genuinely supported taking thompson — he commented freely about the player preceding the draft. which was not the case with barnes’ draft, when it was rumoured that the players he favoured were taken before barnes, and who weren’t being seriously considered because they were guards. barnes does not have the attributes that West has consistently valued when he talks about prospects — ball skills, forceful playmaking on either end that make the opponents adjust. in that context, it’s definitely possible he liked the trade for bogut, but isn’t really sure about barnes, his public statements about the latter aside.

      west had considerably more power and authority in LA and Mem, and also knew from those experiences the importance of showing a unified front before the public. presently, he neither has nor particularly desires that level of power, so he’ll be especially conscious to show support lacob’s decisions, whether or not they coincide with his own views. best to keep in mind how males from west’s generation and background will not be forthcoming about sharing their private feelings. for all we know, he has misgivings about how the roster was constructed, and how the team is coached.

      trusting in west is probably irrelevant, because lacob will pick and choose which of west’s opinions suit him, and west knows it. as intent as lacob was in chasing de. jordan or howard, if west had misgivings about either, how much would it have mattered ?

      • Meyers, some time ago, described the process of how decisions are made. The brain trust gathers, shares opinions, and ideas are “voted” on. There’s no question as to who has the overriding vote, however, as Lacob has made abundantly clear on many occasions.

        I doubt, however, that the major investors, the NBA or Lacob’s ex (her trust)—$300m was it?—have any say.

        We still have to consider West was selected because he espouses a philosophy of basketball Lacob likes. That still doesn’t mean he gives West power to work out the details.

  71. Really appreciate the very informative commentary on this board. I am a Warriors fan since attending my first Warriors game (vs St. Louis Hawks) with my father in the mid-60’s. Will never forget the Bob Petit – Tom Meshery battle in that game. Petit was just tremendous.

    • Welcome Marc. Unfortunately I was too young (and geographically distant) to witness that battle you describe. From what I’ve heard about him, though, Meschery had a lot in common with Draymond Green. I probably would have loved watching him play.

  72. We’re going to find out soon how good our GM’s are, the nominal one and the de facto, at finding talent, bringing them here, and developing them.

    Several players were former clients of agent Myers, right? Speights, O’Neal and Douglas, or two of those? One question might be whether they were scouted well and the FO knew what it was getting. Then there’s the problem of whether or not the team is making good use of their abilities, but that’s still a FO issue.

    Of course we have questions as to whether or not they knew what they were getting with Barnes, whether their scouting or expectations are any good or realistic.

    The way for Iguodala was paved well before GSW entered negotiations, starting with team USA.

    We’re happy with the Riley finds, Green and Ezeli, as most are with Thompson, who fell in the draft.

    The Bogut/Ellis trade, as I keep saying and you guys are tired of hearing, was too damned expensive.

    Landry and Jack made a big impact, but the FO was lucky they were available late, and really they had no other good options. Once more, they were one-year rentals the team couldn’t keep.

    But after that? No keepers.

    The FO has also restricted its search, setting not only the highest priority on a single position—center—but also the type of player it wants at any position, these defensive players we keep hearing about, who can’t score and stay on the floor.

    Show your stuff, Lacob.

  73. Thanks to Marc @75 I wandered onto Tom Meschery’s blog. Well worth reading! Love the poems after every entry, particularly the one to Ben Neff, his former coach.


    • In giving us his defensive principles, Mr. Meschery sums up the difference between Harrison Barnes and Draymond Green:

      There is one overriding principal for playing strong INDIVIDUAL defense. Just as players must ATTACK on OFFENSE, players must ATTACK on Defense. They must do their best to unnerve the opponent they are guarding. That means a defensive player must get in his opponent’s face, belly up, refuse him the opportunity to go where he wants to go or to have a good view of the passing lanes.

      If your opponent picks up his dribble, as a good defender you must swarm him. Make him make a difficult pass. If your opponent is cutting, make the cut hurt. If he is running off a screen, force him back the way he came. In all circumstances, BE PHYSICAL!

      A defensive player one pass away from the ball must crowd his opponent so the ball handler can’t make the easy pass. All players must know where the ball and their man is at all times and be ready to HELP. All players must stay alert to the skip pass and be ready to CLOSE OUT fast and hard. In today’s NBA, this is essential. In today’s NBA, it is also essential that players learn how to defend against the pick and roll.

      #1 All good jump shooters must be fouled hard on the first shot they attempt.
      #2 No player should make an easy layup. Contest everything in the paint.
      #3 Playing defense hurts. Suck it up and live with it.
      #4 When you fight over a screen, be sure the screener feels the effect of your effort. He’ll not be
      so eager to set the next screen.
      #5 NEVER give up on a defensive assignment.
      #6 Take every defensive assignment personally.

  74. Alleged rumored trade that has gone down. Warriors receive J. Crawford, pg, and M. Brooks, sg, for Douglas and possibly Bazemore. Warriors now have distributing back-up pg, and back=up shooting guard with big upside. Great trade. Warriors now have bench and are legitimate contenders.

  75. warriorsablaze

    Warriors on the move. Douglas goes to the Celtics for Jordan Crawford and Marshon Brooks.

    Definitely brings some scoring to the bench. Seems like a good deal for us if JCraw continues to play as he has this season. Not sure where Brooks’ game is these days.

    • Douglas is going to the Heat — great move for them.

      Joel Anthony going to the Celtics — an expiring, I gather. Strictly a tank move.

      Stunning move for the Warriors, as they pick up a combo-guard scorer not known for his defense. Analysis on the way…

      • warriorsablaze

        Yeah, I saw the deal was more complicated as I started typing. Looks great for us…. Crawford should boost our bench production as he can both score and distribute a bit (5.7 assists per this season)

  76. Source Adrian Wojo-Yahoo sports-via tweeter.

  77. “The Boston Celtics have traded Jordan Crawford and MarShon Brooks to the Golden State Warriors in a three-team deal that will send Toney Douglas to the Miami Heat and Joel Anthony and two draft picks to Boston, sources told ESPN.com.”

    Who’s giving up the draft picks, GSW?

    This doesn’t sound like a home run, but it may have been the best they can do.

    Also it looks like both of their contracts end this year? Is this a stopgap measure, or is there potential for next season? If not, more time has been lost filling a vital need.

    OK, gentlemen, what are we getting? But both Brooks and Crawford are listed as SG’s. Can either run point? Not a whole lot of experience from either.

    I suspect we didn’t explore Douglas well. His Spurs game did show something. Miami is going after his shooting? I wish him well, until the playoffs.

  78. One major test for Crawford is how well he can run the offense if Curry goes down. They really need someone now and later who can run the starters as well as the subs.

    • Love Marcus, but he completely misanalyzed Crawford’s role. My take on the way…

      • warriorsablaze

        It’s a little odd that MTII places him off the ball considering he’s been a pretty solid facilitator this season with 5.7 assists per game.

      • There is something to be said for Marcus’ contention that a backup for Klay is as urgent a need as a backup for Curry. Given Klay’s propensity for uneven play offensively, having someone who can come in and relieve Klay from the Ironman minutes he has been playing AND score the ball is a good thing.

        But where this could end up being a really good move for the Warriors is that Crawford has shown he can pass the ball too. He can take some of Curry’s minutes also. The flexibility is a good thing.

        • Jarrett Jack was a de facto backup for Klay as well as Curry. By allowing Curry to play off the ball, Jack gave Klay a rest.

          Crawford will play the same role as Jack.

          My new post analyzing the move is up.