Love Hurts: Thoughts on the Kevin Love Trade

I’m surprised that so many think Kevin Love and Kevin Martin for David Lee and Klay Thompson is a no-brainer for the Warriors. 

Bogut-Love-Iggy-Martin-Curry strike you as a good lineup? Who guards the point guards? Iggy? Well, then who guards the other team’s best scorer? Who guards the SF?

This is an untenable lineup on the defensive end.

What about Bogut-Love-Green-Iggy-Curry, which is the one I’m guessing most of you prefer? Can’t you envision the offensive problems that unit will encounter?

You’ve got two sublime offensive players, surrounded by three non-scoring facilitators. As we’ve seen over and over in the NBA, these kinds of lineups are simply way too easy to defend. As an example, it allows opponents to put their best defender on Curry all game long, with virtual impunity. He’ll be looking at Kawhi Leonard and Matt Barnes and Paul George all season long.

Yes, the pick and pop with Love will be nice. But very little else will be open, much less efficient. You will have solved the problem of opening the floor with a stretch-four, at the price of creating several more problems.

[UPDATE: I see I forgot to consider a starting lineup with Harrison Barnes instead of Green at the SF. Probably because I simply can't conceive of Barnes as an NBA regular on a winning team. However, this is probably exactly what GM Joe Lacob and his chief lackey/spokesmodel Bob Myers have in mind. For one thing, it gives them one more crack at proving that their over-hyped draft pick wasn't disastrous. And for another, they probably don't understand just how bad Barnes is at the defensive end. Will he or Iggy be used to guard the point guard? If it's Iggy, that will expose Barnes badly againt potent two-guards. He can't stay in front of them.

Add to that all of the well-chronicled offensive deficiencies in Barnes' game, and you still have a trade that defies easy analysis.]

Something else no one seems to be considering: Kevin Martin sucks. He has been injured for much of the last three seasons. He’s almost never completely healthy. Even when healthy, he plays only one side of the court. And he has a horrible contract that the Warriors will never be able to get rid of.

I think most of you think Kevin Martin is a useful player. He’s not. At this stage of his career, he’s an albatross. A terrible, losing player. Which is why Sacto, then Houston and now the TWolves have been so anxious to move him.

Love for Lee might be a no-brainer. Love for Lee and a potential Hall of Fame small forward, plus choking on a horrible contract?

Brainer.

124 Responses to Love Hurts: Thoughts on the Kevin Love Trade

  1. Something called “Chat Sports” has been cloning my blog posts. Can anyone help me do something about this?

    • Not sure other than sending a C&D.

      • Evan, would you mind clicking on their link to my post and telling me what you think? Can you tell whether they are directing traffic to my site, or stealing my content? I can’t tell if it’s my page or theirs.

        http://www.chatsports.com/golden-state-warriors

        • It looks like they’re embedding your page in an iframe. I would think that’s illegal but the web is the wild west. No idea if it’s worth your trouble to bother with it.

          • Thanks for checking. It looks a lot like they’ve made it their own page, but they do seem to be sending me referrals, so I guess I’ll let it go for now. (Although I wonder whether it’s possible to send me only a portion of the click-throughs, for appearances…)

        • They are technically loading your site, with all of it’s content, so it will show up as a pageview in your analytics, and the content is coming from your server. But they put a tool bar at the top, and could show their ads or anything else next to your content. Right now, they are just showing big buttons to share on social media, but when someone shares the url on facebook or links to it, it’s likely to be their link which doesn’t help your site much, it helps them. It’s a tradeoff because they do have a portal and a mobile app that could spread your articles to readers that otherwise wouldn’t see them, but the method is shady, and if I were you, I’d get rid of them.

          You can add a little javascript to make it difficult for someone to load your page in an iframe. Here is a WordPress plugin that will do it for you if not comfortable adding the code yourself.

          http://wordpress.org/plugins/sem-frame-buster/

  2. What about Love-Green-Barnes-Iguodala-Curry?

    Regardless, every other piece is easy to fill once you have two stars. And Martin is better than anyone we have coming off the bench or will have coming off the bench offensively.

    • Wow, if Kevin Love has the power to make you of all people think Barnes is an NBA player, he is truly intoxicating.

      But what is your starting lineup?

  3. Thanks for this post. Hope it’s as successful as Adam’s “Keep Jim Barnett” seems to have been and that West & Kerr rule the day on this one. Seems way too much to give up for KL. Prefer to stick w/Lee, see what he can do differently/better under a new staff, consider other trades if they are available etc. Wonder if Lee’s albatross contract will be trade-able next year. Wonder also what the chance is of bringing Adams in and what effect he could have on the defensive shortcomings that still exist.

    • “Wonder also what the chance is of bringing Adams in and what effect he could have on the defensive shortcomings that still exist.”

      We were 4rd in defense last season. 2nd in the West behind LAC. How much better do you think we can get honestly?

      • Evan, was thinking about Lee’s & Curry’s defense in particular. Seems there’s room for improvement there unless you believe they’ve maxed out their defensive capabilities.

  4. I’ve updated the post to consider Harrison Barnes moved back into the starting lineup. Something so obviously what Lacob has in mind that I’m surprised I forgot to think about it.

    Actually, no I’m not. I don’t want to think about this possibility.

  5. There is the other possibility, which is that the public praising of Klay and supposed disconnect amongst chefs may just be a brilliant play to not get stuck with Martin. If it’s lee and klay for Love or Love and their pick, you do it in a heartbeat, no? That pick could easily go to a serviceable 2…
    What else is out there that is better than Klay? Faried has more value in
    WP circles, but his D is shit. Klay is the best there is out there, and Flip wants to win now, so Lee doesn’t hurt this. Combining that and the fact that GSW is one of the only places Love would sign an extension, I feel like we have some leverage here.
    I agree with you on K Mart- albatross contract and he is atrocious, but I feel like we can get Love without that grenade…and be a destination like MIA and LAC for vet mins to win…

  6. @mcguins Hope you’re right, but in the end, teams are going to throw ridiculous overpays at the TWolves. Remember the Melo deal?

    Hate to say this, but Love also possesses some intangibles that NBA owners covet. He’s a great white hope, a Bird-like figure, with a model’s good looks. In other words, a ticket and jersey selling, marketing bonanza.

    If Saunders plays his cards right, he will harvest an unbelievable bounty of ridiculous packages. Franchise changing packages.

    • the rumour peddling and hype fest made plenty of fans forget how this pre draft period favors Min, and how much will change between the draft and Oct. in terms of alternatives arising to improve the roster without shipping out a young, improving, two way wing.

      love has given saunders little choice but to get as much as he can, with ujiri/karl’s c.anthony liquidation a recent model.

    • Yet another way Lee has let us down—he wasn’t the great white hope.

  7. The trade is great for the Warriors as it brings them a great player and a good player for two good players. and the Warriors still have assets to to trade to upgrade the Warriors both offensively and defensively. Martin did play 68 games last season.

    While you’re always touting Thompson as a great passer but that isn’t true the fact that he only averages 2.2. assists per game. An indication mm that he doesn’t distribute the ball to Curry nor Lee very often.let me know when there is a sighting of him throwing the ball to our two best shooters.

    • cosmicballoon

      What makes you think the next shooting guard, or Love for that matter, will be a better or more willing passer than Klay?

  8. It sure would have been nice if David Lee had developed a 3pt shot. He’s had 10 years to work on it.

    Even Myers and Kerr talked about Draymond working as a stretch 4, not even bothering to mention Lee in that vein.

    Now, let’s talk Synergy stats comparing Lee and Love.

    Post-up (PPP)
    Lee 0.86
    Love 0.92

    Spot-up
    Lee 0.84
    Love 1.06

    Off-Screen
    Lee only had 7 of these all season
    Love (121 attempts) 1.12 (#12 in the league)

    Cuts to the rim
    Lee 1.1
    Love 1.32

    Offensive rebound putbacks
    Lee 1.11
    Love 1.19

    There is only one category where Lee > Love. ISO.
    Lee 1.1
    Love 0.8

    Love is a vastly superior scorer and it isn’t even close.

    • is it true that Love has only fouled out once in his career ? that is Chamberlain-like.

    • Considering that Lee got by far his most attempts in ISO, and his efficiency there is higher than Love’s in virtually every offensive category (except open cuts to the rim, which are largely a result of system and ballhandler), your conclusion that Love is a “vastly” superior scorer seems vastly hyperbolic.

      Do you find any comparison of pick and roll stats?

      Do you have any interest in doing a statistical comparison of their head to head matchups?

      And where is the link to these stats, please?

      • Overall, Love’s 59% TS on 29% USG is much, much more impressive than Lee’s 56.6% on 24.3% USG. It’s not even close. Love is much closer to Curry than he is to Lee.

        Sorry, left out PNR. Another clear win for Love:

        Love 1.12
        Lee 1.01

        These are all from Synergy. It would be straight up silly to look at head-to-head matchups with the sample sizes being so small. So no, I won’t do that.

        If you somehow think Love performed worse against Lee than the rest of the league, I invite you to prove that and tell us what you think that means regarding the proposed trade.

        As far as ISO, Lee only had 61 of those according to Synergy. I’m not sure I would make much out of that sample size.

    • Love’s EFG% last year was .524, Lee’s .523.

      He was a bit more impressive in TS%: .591 to Lee’s .577.

      Does system matter at all in this? Lee has been used incorrectly every single year since joining the Warriors. When being used correctly by Mike D’Antoni, his shooting percentages blew Love’s away.

      Which is why Lee has a better career EFG% to Love: .534 to .494.

      (I restrained myself from using “vastly superior” there…)

  9. Who does Derrick Rose prefer?

    “According to sources close to Kevin Love, Rose’s preference is for the Bulls to work out a deal as soon as possible for Minnesota’s All-Star forward because he sees Love as more of a team player than Anthony. Chicago is in the mix with Golden State for Love, with Boston and Denver considered long shots. If it makes any difference to Melo, Rose has no plans to recruit Love, who is free next summer, either. But the Bulls already know whom he’d really prefer to play with in the future.”

    http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/22/report-bulls-derrick-rose-prefers-kevin-love-to-carmelo-anthony/

    • cosmicballoon

      Who cares what Rose thinks. He is the glass man and Chicago’s management knows it. Carmelo, at least, stays on the floor.

  10. Cosmicballoon: Hopefully the next SG for the Warriors will be told by the coach to pass the ball to Curry or to Love if he joins the Warriors.

  11. FB@6—

    But maybe it’s not too late. We need to brand David Lee and promote him. He doesn’t even have a brand nickname! Any ideas?

  12. Feltbot, moto, et al.—

    Here’s an academic exercise, academic because it’s not going to happen:

    How much better would the team be in a straight up Love/Lee trade?

    I give Love the edge in offense, though don’t share EZ’s enthusiasm over a few percentile points, who still hasn’t factored in context. I give Lee the edge in defense, though I know this will start one of those riotous, chaotic debates we have come to know and love so much that go nowhere. And I give Lee the edge in intangibles—leadership and grit—though am certain no one will touch them.

    But “better” needs definition. Would the trade put them in serious playoff contention, i.e. past the 2nd. round, next season and the following, with a real shot at going further? With a chance of getting better after that?

    And I greatly doubt it. I don’t think it makes that much difference either way.

    With either player, the team is stuck with a thin bench, no good backups at key positions, except Green, no good 4th or 5th (or 6th or 7th) scorers, and all kinds of questions at center. It would still, Love or Lee, only have three reliable scorers. And they’d have to play heavy minutes, and would wear down in the season and in the playoffs. (How much gas did the Warriors have in the tank had they beaten the Clips?)

    My assumption is the the Love contract will severely hamper the team’s ability to develop the depth it needs, especially if he stays on past his option, when he should draw big, big bucks.

    Lee’s contract isn’t cheap either, but he’ll likely leave in two years, while Love supporters are counting on him as the future.

    What the team needs to do is get its coaching priorities and identity straight and develop both over the next few years, get rid of the fat in the salary cap so they’ll have flexibility, as well as build the depth and prospects for the years to come. It’s what the team needs to learn from San Antonio.

    • “My assumption is the the Love contract will severely hamper the team’s ability to develop the depth it needs, especially if he stays on past his option, when he should draw big, big bucks.”

      Will it? I mean, you have teams like the Heat who already have 3 $20M contracts and want to add another.

      You have the Spurs who pay practically everyone on their roster $10M.

      At some point, Lacob will have to pay up. It doesn’t matter whether it’s Klay or Love or LeBron or Durant.

      But I’ll tell you this. Iguodala came to this team because of Curry. If Love comes here, it’s because of Curry and Iguodala. And with Love, Curry, and Iguodala already here, they will find another star. I have no doubt.

      Get the stars first, worry about the rest later.

      • Look at the Spurs roster again:

        http://espn.go.com/nba/team/roster/_/name/sa/san-antonio-spurs

        They aren’t overpaying anyone, except maybe Splitter. More importantly, they are getting extraordinary production from low contracts—Mills, Leonard, Diaw, etc. Even more important, just about everyone on the roster can step up and perform. Remember how the subs beat us and almost beat Miami last year.

        Maybe the Spurs got a break with Duncan, but Parker and Ginobli were under the radar finds they stuck with and developed. After them, don’t don’t pay franchise prices. The are deep and developed enough that they can trade any position and pick up a midrange player and not lose a beat.

        None of those things can be said about the Warriors. I seriously doubt the Spurs would pay big bucks for Love or any other star player because it would disrupt the overall team composition and screw up their cap and flexibility in spending. Every big deal the Warriors have made, starting with Lee, has put them in a bind.

        • The Spurs are a black swan. I know the Warriors want to emulate that model, but let’s be honest. The Spurs are a once-in-a-lifetime type of organizational model.

          That ain’t happening here.

          • The Spurs are exceptional only in the sense that they are a good organization, which really shouldn’t be exceptional. There’s nothing they have done that the Warriors couldn’t do—

            —if they had intelligent coaching and scouting and a coherent plan, the patience and vision to carry it through. Maybe Duncan was a lucky break for SA, but Parker, Ginobli, etc. were intelligent choices they stuck with and made work.

            Four years into his regime, and only now has Lacob attempted to bring in a full staff. The intelligence and vision remain to be seen. The bench is still threadbare, with no prospects on the horizon.

            You’ll be hard pressed to find any team that has made a deep run in the playoffs in recent history built on the 2 or 3 star model that does not have Lebron or Durant. Even Kobe had to be surrounded with big talent—and LA struggled to make it work (another concern I have about star players and Love—they force too much attention on themselves at the expense of the team).

            But Love is not a franchise player on the order of L or D. If he could score at will, regardless of defensive pressure, and was a lockd0wn defender, he would be. He’s just not worth the big bucks and the Warriors have too many other pressing concerns to take care of.

            OKC should be a cautionary tale—they still don’t have enough to take the final step into the playoffs.

          • “The Spurs are exceptional only in the sense that they are a good organization, which really shouldn’t be exceptional. ”

            But it is. That’s why they are the exception, not the rule. If it was commonplace, we wouldn’t be talking about them.

  13. So I see we got Ron Adams:

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2014/06/22/celtics-assistant-ron-adams-leaves-for-warriors/ZJHtj2Auki55HXgfLV9xAJ/story.html

    Anybody know anything?

    Man, Lacob must be throwing the bucks around. Can someone make a bar graph on how much he’s spent on coaching from year 1 to the present?

    • the 5 m. for kerr was lacob’s equivalent for making it rain, caught in one of those auctions he had to win for ego and p.r. from his chair, worth the investment because it instantly reversed the negative publicity from losing in the first round to a team undergoing extreme turmoil and of course the alienation of the guy hugely popular in the media. the net worth of the team and its revenues have both ballooned since the early days, so flashing the cash for kerr was relatively painless.

      lacob made sure everyone knew Malone was the highest paid assistant anywhere, something in the low seven numbers. gentry and adams combined probably make a bit less than what malone used to get. at least two or three assistant spots remain to be filled.

      • Presumably this time the coaches will get along. I’m also assuming Kerr had a hand in the decisions this time, in fact his coordination in such matters was a reason he was brought on.

        I’m sure Lacob put up no more bucks than he had to. I was kind of surprised two major organizations let go of supposedly valued assistants. But both are around 60, and better bucks and some stability and a greater roll might be attractive to them now.

        I must confess, I’m skeptical of offensive schemes that have names. If Blatt had come, would they have run the Princeton Triangle?

        • Your skepticism about schemes with names is probably rooted in their association with a particular team in a particular era. The Princeton offense is a case in point. People associate that offense to slow, low scoring Princeton teams. The offense is actually anything but. Pete Carill knew his no scholarship, Ivy League team could only compete with the bigger programs by decreasing the number of possessions (increasing variance) so he had a secondary break that actually wasted time and he would frequently run it twice before going into his real offense; he would play man defense when his talent was better and zone when it wasn’t; he would send nobody to the offensive glass against some teams so a transition-happy team would often get zero fast break points, etc.

          However, it was the same Pete Carill that Rick Adelman brought to the early 2000’s Sacramento Kings to help architect the beautiful offense run by that team. Princeton concepts run by talented players looks a lot different than what people saw at Princeton. As both Pete Carill and Tex Winter have said that the Princeton and Triangle are the closest offensive schemes to each other in concept, I’m willing to see if Kerr understands the underlying concepts and how they can be adapted to the W’s talent and today’s game. Or if he just made a photocopy of the Bull’s play book and wants to run the same plays; His comments make me optimistic that is not the case.

  14. Felty: You should not ignore the fact that Love gets to the foul-line 4 more times per game than Lee does. When his foul shots are combined with Love’s superior shooting from the field confirms that Love is far superior to Lee offensively.

    • We’ve gone from the pulpit to the classroom:

      Indeed, Adams, who is in his mid-60s, would seem at home in a university classroom, as he carries a strong professorial demeanor.

      “He really is a college professor,” Stevens said.

      All that’s missing is the tweed jacket with elbow patches.

      • cosmicballoon

        At the rate the W’s are hiring experienced coaches, Kerr is going to be making $5M per to massage Lacob’s feet. There won’t be any coaching left to do! This is a good thing, for the most part. However, by not being willing to spend over the luxury tax line, Lacob is making his second rookie owner mistake. Spending more on management than on the actual talent. (The first mistake was hiring Mark Jackson as a rookie head coach).

        • They’re the kinds of decisions that look nice on an organizational chart. I don’t know about you, but I’ve never had luck with top down management or committees. Decisions should be centered on the guy on the floor, the head coach, who has the most knowledge and authority.

          But they are paying attention to details now. Jackson was a no details coach. Presumably Kerr will listen and learn. Whether he can step up and run the show in 2-3 years remains to be seen.

      • cosmicballoon

        At the rate the W’s are hiring experienced coaches, Kerr is going to be making $5M per to massage Lacob’s feet. There won’t be any coaching left to do! This is a good thing, for the most part. However, by not being willing to spend over the luxury tax line for players, Lacob is making his second rookie owner mistake. Spending more on management than on the actual talent. (The first mistake was hiring Mark Jackson as a rookie head coach).

    • You must be pleased with the moves Kerr is making and the things he is saying, I guess?

      • Evanz,

        To add on to your question, I’ve been hearing a derisive tone from some of the posters about the strong team Kerr is putting together for his coaching staff. I don’t get it. I’m excited. When I mentally list the things that a coach would need to do well to take the W’s to 60 wins and the conference finals (assuming talent and health), the type of staff Kerr is assembling addresses many items on that list.

        • cosmicballoon

          It will be a good staff. And that’s great. I think the problem is that Lacob just hired his second consecutive rookie coach and is now overspending to help Kerr out, when potentially, he could be using some of that cash to improve the roster (even if it means paying luxury tax.)

          • I’m almost 100% sure that coaches salary does not count towards the salary cap. So unless I’m wrong (I don’t think I’m wrong), then it’s irrelevant.

          • warriorsablaze

            The money spent on the coaching staff is completely unrelated to the money spent on the roster. It’s simply bad business to go into the luxury tax before it’s appropriate to do so. Moto is the resident cap expert around here, but I believe there are other consequences to going into the tax, related to MLE’s and other things that give organizations flexibility.

            Lacob has shown no indication that he won’t spend the money when the time is right… we’ll see as we get closer
            (or further) from contention over the next few years.

          • the salary cap and its enforcement addendum the luxury tax apply to player salaries, the ‘a’ in c.b.a. for agreement between the owners and players’ union. owners can spend whatever they choose on coaches, training and med staff, facilities, d-league teams, scouting personnel. woeyr ticket prices are in the top tier for the association, for the first playoff round they were the very highest, their revenues are higher than ever and the value of the team keeps ballooning.

            if lacob ever plunges into the lux tax, it would be a consequence of snagging a hyped up star like howard or love, because of what they bring nationally and internationally with respect to marketing and p.r. — the ‘brand’ becomes more valuable, more national broadcast dates, associated revenues with higher marketing visibility. love simply has more marketing clout than thompson or lee (as someone noted earlier, not a resounding success as the great white hype). getting one of the top reserve guards last summer for the bench probably meant the lux tax, but its marketing quotient is very low — and the team came close to reaching the second playoff round without one.

          • cosmicballoon

            I understand that the luxury tax is unrelated to the coaching salaries. My point is that Lacob’s priorities are screwed up if he’s willing to splurge on coaches, but is unwilling to enter into luxury tax territory to pay for the players the team needs to compete for a championship. When is the right time to go into the luxury tax? And isn’t it also bad business to overpay for an inexperienced coach?

  15. We’re definitely getting a new vibe from the Warriors. They’ve gone from this (and don’t sell that organist short!):

  16. If Warriors can make three team trade and can obtain Love without giving up Thompson so much the better. But, they need to come away with Love, with or without Thompson being included in the trade.

  17. To many talented free agents frye ,davis ,granger,mo williams,collison,laundry,chandler,j richardson all 1.5 -6 million.Kevin Martins contract is for 6.5 million Klay’s only 4.5 million this coming year this doesn’t make sense.Trade D Lee go free agent for bench depth O’Neal coming back 1 million

  18. Watching soccer tonight and saw a goalie leap high and tip the ball over the net.

    If I remember, Festus Ezieli played soccer. One would think he could have been a heck of a goalie.

  19. If the Warriors don’t greatly improve their roster they are likely to stay in purgatory the next three years hovering between 47 and 51 wins. And we have seen sign that the Warriors have the financial room or wherewithal to sign excellent free agents.

    When they have the chance to sign Kevin Love who averages 26 points per game on only 18 shots taken and give up two players who combine for 30.4 points on 25 shots taken, plus get Martin who shoots as well as Thompson, it’s almost moronic not to make the deal. I would expect Adam Lauridsen, not you Felty to oppose the deal.

  20. Too bad Warriors didn’t hire Blatt. Doubt that he would agree with West and Kerr in opposing trade. Hard to believe that Lacob and Myers had it right and then took shelter when they faced opposition.

  21. I agree Martin is a poison pill, but I really agree with Thorpe on this one, Love is a game changer, far more so than Klay-

    http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/69138/show-some-love?ex_cid=espnapi_public

    • Like everyone else, Thorpe doesn’t even discuss the issue.

      We’re not discussing Klay for Love. Nor are we discussing Klay and Lee for Love. We’re discussing Klay and Lee for Love and Kevin Martin.

      Which leaves the Warriors over the cap with a horribly flawed roster.

      Who’s the backup point? Who’s the starting two? How do you get shooting into the starting lineup without using KMart? Who will stand in for Bogut (and KMart) in the playoffs?

      There is no good answer to these questions with KMarts contract stinking up the works.

  22. @13, the Princeton Offense:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princeton_offense

    Note:

    “Coach Alvin Gentry also implemented an altered version of it, that shows similarities to the triangle offense, during the Phoenix Suns’ 2012-13 NBA season.”

    And:

    “Having a strong post player is important because this player is critical to passing to backdoor cutters, and can draw help defense to open outside shots.”

    “All five players in the offense—including the center—should be competent at making a three point attempt, further spreading the floor.”

    Which explains Love if they go small but leaves Bogut out if they don’t.

    Do any of you pundits know if Adelman used it with Love in Minnesota and have a report?

    It’s hard to know what to make of the triangle and Phil because he had superlative players who would have made any system work. It’s why I hope Melo stays in NY, so we can get a better test site.

    My other reservation is that the triangle is hard to explain and learn. Jim B tried to explain it, with visuals, when the Lakers came to town a few years ago, and I didn’t follow. More to my concern, he said it takes players a good while to learn it, which makes me suspicious.

    One of D’Antoni’s talents (who did care about defense) was breaking up his system into parts his players could easily understand, digestible instructions he could repeat during a game. And, like Nelson, he can get players up and running in no time. Popovich cares most about execution and I would think simplicity, along, of course, with continual practice, is essential.

  23. I’m surprised no one has talked about Pau Gasol, who Dallas might go after. Imagine Lee + Gasol, with Ezeli and Speights as backup centers for strength and bulk, when needed. But I do wonder what kind of shape he’s in.

    He’s a free agent now, right, i.e. can’t be traded? (Barnes + Bogut for Gasol works in the trade machine, but so does the pair for Durant.)

    • +1 Pau would be incredible on this team. But he’s got too many skills for Lacob to consider him a center.

  24. If we get Love we have a better starting line-up. Nellie would do the deal in a heartbeat. Felty, you’d rather keep Thompson. If so, you’ll be faced with letting Thompson go or resigning him paying $11 million a year. If so, , the Warriors going nowhere. And you think Martin’s contract is excessive?
    Felty, while you should be concerned the roster, it seems to me you’re more concerned about whether they fit in to
    offensive system you prefer rather than matching fhe offense to the players on the roster.

    Feel very confident Warriors will add to depth by unloading Barnes and getting a draft pick and maybe a free agent if Lacob willing to pay the luxury tax.

    • You seem to have reading difficulties. When you wrote that I’d “rather keep Thompson,” I stopped reading.

  25. Amick’s take is better than Thorpe’s:

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2014/06/23/kevin-love-klay-thompson-warriors-timberwolves-trade-dead/11284595/

    There are THREE years left on KMarts deal.

  26. Felty, you’re being a little to cute. You made it very clear above that you would rather keep Thompson then trade him and Lee for Love and Martin.

    • Huh? Felt said he don’t want Martin.

      Would Felt would approve of DLee + Klay for Love? Maybe so.

      The Wolves wouldn’t. To the Wolves, its not fair to take on a salary dump without the Warriors taking one back.

  27. Just tell me this is all leading up to Curry, Love, and KD. Then I’ll be fine with it.

  28. It seems to me that the Warriors could trade Lee, Thompson, and a future no. 1 for Love and Matin and still use their mid-level exemption, their trade exemption, buy a draft pick, and trade Barnes, to upgrade their bench considerably. We have the ability to obtain a back-up PG and SG. Doesn’t anyone have some vision and boldness? Get Love

    • Kevin Martin has 3 years left on a 7+ million a year contract. That screws everything up now and in the future. Who would you rather have him or Afflalo?

  29. If you hold the latest rumor to be true “Love deal is dead Warriors will not give up Klay”.Move Lee to small forward or trade him and Barnes,acquire Gasol,Frye or chandler p/f.

  30. The TWolves played 750+ minutes with Love at center this season with a +4 point differential. In those minutes he shot 61% TS on 34% USG.

    And that’s with some terrible, terrible lineups featuring Kevin Martin, Brewer, Cunningham, etc.

  31. The good news is that the Warriors don’t appear interested in even pitching Carmelo Anthony. That’s progress.

  32. Screwing everything up would be resigning Thompson for $11 million that would just compound our signing Bogut for $13 million. Get Love.

  33. LeBron opting out changes everything. My guess is Myers or Kerr got wind of it a couple days ago. Have to see how things play out.

    Potentially dodged a bullet here.

    • Although according to Chad Ford Kevin Martin is not even the sticking point (if you believe him):

      “Ford says: “They’ve agreed on the principle. They’ve agreed on Kevin Love and Kevin Martin. And they’ve agreed on Klay Thompson and David Lee. They are fighting over draft protection on picks, whether Harrison Barnes will be in the deal, whether J.J. Barea will be in the deal.”

      • cosmicballoon

        Barea, I think, could serve as a pesky 15-minute per game point guard. As much as I dislike Harrison, I would trade him for a draft pick before putting him into this deal.

  34. Steve Kerr:

    I am hopeful for Kerr and his staff, but mostly relieved. Finally Lacob has committed himself to a coach instead of dangling coaches like Jonathan Edwards’ spiders, as he did Smart and Jackson. Finally he is bringing in a complete staff who will pay attention to the details and try to put them together.

    Lacob won’t be able to fire Kerr soon without public and private embarrassment, and Kerr can relax somewhat, knowing he has time, and not make desperate decisions, such as overplaying starters and pushing the team too hard early and midseason just so he can keep his job. Kerr will still have to win, of course, but the final expected result will be more flexible, less indefinite, and more sane.

    Lacob respects Kerr, can talk to him, and may grow to trust him. Kerr may well be the only candidate in the NBA who can do this. And maybe Lacob will begin to listen and get more input, better informed and desperately needed, from the staff as to roster moves, which will make all the difference in the world.

    The assistants so far look good, especially Gentry. Kerr and Gentry should be on the same page in terms of ideas for the offense, which make sense for the team, and they have worked together. Adams looks disciplined and thorough. Neither Gentry nor Adams look to be ego cases, and, at their age and this stage of their careers, they may be satisfied with settling down for a while being assistants and won’t be looking to bolt their first chance. I am assuming Kerr will listen, which appears to be a talent, and that he is smart enough to consolidate their input into something coherent. Their chemistry for getting along should be good, especially given Gentry’s sense of humor.

    But neither Kerr nor the assistants have experience as a floor general, except Gentry in his brief stint. Kerr will have to learn how to take charge and make decisions on the fly, learn about his players, tailor the system to them, and learn from his mistakes. Knowing something and being able to execute it are entirely different matters, and the latter takes time and experience.

    Kerr will also have to have the drive and perseverance to motivate his players and make decisions stick, as well as be able to weather all the uncertainty and chaos that come with the NBA and not lose track but stay the course.

    Jonathan Edwards and his spiders (plug in Lacob):

    “The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: His wrath towards you burns like fire; He looks upon you as worthy of nothing else but to be cast into the fire; He is of purer eyes that to bear to have you in His sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in His eyes than the more hateful venomous serpent is in ours.”

    • We’ll be lucky to keep Gentry more than 1 year. If the Warriors offense and record improves this year, he’ll get another HC offer. Which is why he’s here.

    • when you use the phrase ‘floor general’, presumably in this context it means head coach and not lead guard. gentry has been a head coach for far more than brief stints — 705 games, the equivalent of eight plus full seasons. his resume is somewhat unusual because those games were spread out over 12 seasons, only four of which were a full season in charge of the team. he was either a temporary chief or he was relieved after a partial season the other eight years.

      • correction, gentry was boss coach for five full seasons out the the twelve he’s served, because the 66 games in Phx for ’11-12 was the full season.

      • Thanks for the correction. I didn’t check and forgot about Detroit and LAC.

  35. The Warriors have to take back Martin, as horrible as he is and as burdensome his contract, since the Warriors are dumping DLee’s contract. Both sides know this. This is common negotiations, of which Lacob and Meyers are experts.

    Lacob should bargain a bit harder to get another asset, especially if he could include Barnes to get it, just about any asset. What’s the name of that tall Israeli point guard? (Or is he Turkish?)

    That way Lacob would not have to admit he made a mistake on Barnes.

  36. Is Lebron remotely feasible for the Warriors? Assume $20m minimum but expect more. How will they free the cash? Then what will be left on the roster—and would he find it attractive?

    Options reviewed here (and GSW isn’t mentioned):

    http://grantland.com/the-triangle/surveying-the-lebron-landscape/

  37. I read somewhere today that Warriors may be able to stretch or extend Martin’s contract over 5 years and thus possibly avoid salary cap rules. Not sure if it said 5 years beyond the three years length of contract. And thus keep their mid level exemption each year. if so, then Martin’s contract not as onerous as some maintain. Anyone know anything about that?

  38. Sometimes I wonder how we can all be residing on the same planet and see things so differently. I watch the brilliant Felty go through all these gyrations claiming our defense will be worse with Love and Martin, and go on and say our starters will not be as good, questioning who will guard opposing PG’s, and pointing out the abomination of Martin’s contract, etc.

    All the while ignoring that Love and Martin combine for 45 points per game, while Lee and Thompson combine for 30.3 per game. Such should be end of discussion. And Martin scores 19 points per game while taking 15 shots and Thompson scores less points-16.4 to be exact, while taking 14 FGA. Know one should give a crap if we throw on a first round picks or Barnes. And it’s embarrassing that West and Kerr don’t get it. Get Love and Martin. If their opposition delayed the deal and results in it falling through the whole front office should be fired and the team
    sold.

    • I believe you acquired your #’s from ESPN stats.for Lee and thompson combined averages 30.3 per game.My only explanation for this is it’s probably play off stats.If you go to Fox sports lookup the averages Klay18.+ Lee18.+=37 per game this I believe is for the reg season.

  39. Anyone recognize this sequence?

    61
    51
    24
    22
    80
    40
    77
    68……?

    That’s the number of games per season that Kevin Martin played in the last 8 seasons from age 23 to age 31. An average of 53 games a season in his prime.

    He’ll be 32 in February.

    • Looks like you split 2010 into SAC and HOU (I assume you just copy and pasted from bball-ref without checking).

      So, corrected version

      2014 – 68
      77
      40 (lockout season, so missed 26 out of 66 possible)
      80
      46
      51
      61
      80
      72
      45 – 2005

      I actually don’t see much of a recent pattern that looks much different than his entire career (not sure that’s the point you were trying to make, but there it is).

  40. Pingback: The Lowe of the Herd: My Answer to Zach Lowe on the Kevin Love to the Warriors Trade - Feltbot's Warriors Blog

  41. Lee and Thompson combined for 30.4 points in playoffs. Even comparing season averages Love and Martin outscored Lee and Thompson by 8 points and more importantly did so shooting more efficiently and getting to the foul-line more. And the Warriors would be obtaining in Love one of the top 5 players in the NBA. Fully expect a Curry, Love, and Martin trip to average close to 70 points per game. And surely the Warriors will install an offense that will allow warrior players to shine.

    Given Green receiving more playing time, and the Warriors improving Speights play in the playoffs by banning him from shootings three’s and to limit his game from shooting more inside And driving to the hoop, ke shot 53 percent in playoffs.

    If the Warriors obtain Love and Martin and obtain another good SG and back-up PG, the Warriors should go far in playoffs.

  42. We in Minny dont want Klay, if you put his stats right next to Kevin Martin they are virtually the same. In fact Martin scores more. Klay is definately not a max contract guy.