Bulls 113 Warriors 111

Could have been a win, should have been a win, I don’t really care about that at this point in the season. The Warriors are virtually assured of having a top seed. I was just grateful for the opportunity to finally see a great, competitive game. And to see the Warriors under pressure. We need games like this, against teams like this great Bulls team, to get a glimpse at some of the issues the Warriors will face in the playoffs. 

Curry:  It was reported that Curry made two trips to the locker room last night, and given how gassed he looked in the second half, it wouldn’t surprise me to hear that he had the same thing Bogut had.

That doesn’t excuse that crunch-time turnover though. That was terrible. Curry’s mom should charge him double for that one.

But wasn’t that turnover also on the Warriors’ rookie coach? Curry was trapped right in front of the Warriors bench, and I didn’t see anyone yelling for a timeout.

Kerr made another huge mistake at the end of regulation. That elevator doors play for Klay, which the superbly coached Bulls had no problem disrupting. Leaving the ball exactly where it shouldn’t be at the end of a game, in Iggy’s hands behind the arc. This was a play-call worthy of a high school coach. Right out of Hoosiers.

This is the NBA, Steve Kerr. In the NBA, when you have a superstar, you give him the ball.

Stephen Curry is one of the greatest closers the game has ever seen. Or should I say, NEVER seen? It has been absolutely remarkable how difficult it has been for Curry to get his rookie NBA coaches to give him the ball. Keith Smart’s closer was Monta Ellis. Mark Jackson tried all sorts of stuff before finally realizing that Curry, isolated up top, was the best shot he could get. The best shot anyone in the league could get.

Steve Kerr wants the ball in Klay Thompson’s hands. Wants to run a complicated play for a catch and shoot against a defense that knows what’s coming. He’s done it at least twice now.

I have an intuition about what is going on here. Steve Kerr played with Michael Jordan, and got sick of watching Jordan go one on three at the end of games, and bogart all the game-winning opportunities, while he was standing on the wings wide open waiting for the pass that never came. Or almost never came. It’s infected his thought process. At the end of the game, Kerr wants picks and cuts and reads and sacrifice and decoys and hit the open man and…

Wrong. Dead wrong. You have a superstar who can get his shot off against anyone, from anywhere on the floor. Out to 28 feet. The greatest off the dribble shooter in NBA history. And potentially the greatest closer in NBA history.

Four flat on the baseline. Stephen Curry isolated up top. There is nothing the Warriors could possibly run that is as difficult to defend as Curry all alone with the ball in his hands 30 feet out.

There was a close-up of Curry’s face as he was inbounding the ball for this last play. Rewind the tape, and take another look at it. He hated the play-call just as much as I did. It’s all over his face.

Curry is simply too nice a guy. Too much the good teammate. Jordan or Kobe would get right in Steve Kerr’s grill and tell him just give me the damn ball and get out the damn way.

It’s Swaggy C time.

Klay: I didn’t write a word about Klay’s record setting performance because what could I add? He’s now reached the point that Curry reached with me a long time ago, where the best thing I can do is sit back and enjoy, along with everyone else.

One of the more outlandish statements I made regarding Klay before the season, was that I wouldn’t be surprised if he averaged 25 points a game , up from 18 last year. He’s now at 23 for the season. In a mere 33 minutes a game.

But he’s averaging 26.4 for the last month. In less than 31 minutes.

One of the last things to pick on with Klay is his rebounding. It’s a pet topic of Gary St. Jean and others. I’ve never gotten that, as when I’ve watched Klay I’ve always seen a very talented rebounder. I have said in the past that when he plays small forward, he can rebound with anyone. He’s got the knack, it’s just something the Warriors rarely ask from him. His role has been to defend on the perimeter, and leak out when the ball goes up.

Well, with Bogut out last night against the huge Bulls front line, the Warriors asked Klay Thompson to stay back and rebound. And he delivered.

Derrick Rose: One of my least favorite players in the league. I just think he’s a terrible point guard, no vision, no instincts, no touch on his passes. Did you see him fire those 100 mph bullets off Pau’s hands?

Rose is the Colin Kaepernick of the NBA.

David Lee: There was a very interesting difference between this game and the last. Steve Kerr went away from the triangle, and started getting Lee the ball on the move. Quite a bit of pick and roll — with glorious results — but also some clever play calling that got him open in the lane.

Unfortunately, in crunch time the Warriors went away from Lee altogether, which perplexed me. Weren’t the towering, lumbering Bulls the perfect target for Curry-Lee pick and roll with a spread floor?

Lee sat in overtime, which was also perplexing. Perhaps Kerr thought he was gassed, and didn’t want to risk injury?

The Warriors crunch-time execution fell apart last night. A pity, and a missed opportunity.

Green: Fantastic against Gasol in the post. Less effective when Thibs started getting Gasol the ball on the move. If I were Thibs, I would simply try to get Gasol face-up shots from the free throw line against Green. The adjustment that LaMarcus Aldridge made.

Noah paid Green a big compliment after the game: “Draymond’s a hell of a competitor.” Coming from Noah, that means something.

Barnes: I thought he was pretty solid last night. He is a much, much better defender when matched up against power forwards.

Iggy: When the Warriors first signed Iggy, I predicted that he would cost them games in the fourth quarter with his poor free throw shooting. This was such a game.

It wasn’t just the two he missed. It was the two he was afraid to take. That’s what happened on the play that Steve Kerr complained to the refs about. It wasn’t on the refs, it was on Iggy. When he saw that his opponent had left his feet and he was about to get fouled, Iggy took a crab dribble under the basket to escape the contact. A high school player would have known how to go up strong and take the foul. It wasn’t about that. It was about FEAR.

We saw the same thing earlier in the game, when Iggy passed up a fast break opportunity to fling the ball back out. We’ve seen it throughout this season, in fact. Jim Barnett has remarked upon it, though never directly mentioning Iggy’s problem, of course.

If Iggy is going to play scared, then he has to sit. Simple as that.

Livingston: 10 inconsequential minutes.

The Warriors are going to need a real backup point guard in the playoffs.

Is management going to address this problem, or are they too ego-invested?

And pot-stuck.

425 Responses to Bulls 113 Warriors 111

  1. Actually, the two Chicago games were similar in many respects. Scoring was about the same for all players, especially Klay and Steph, except obviously Green didn’t go off for 31 last night and Lee didn’t play the first; Rose didn’t score the first game, which had to be an anomaly. Also boards were about the same, with the same difference in being out-rebounded. Offensive rebounds, which Fitz whined about all night, were about the same as well, and were even for the teams both games. Curry’s numbers were almost identical. Bench scoring, outside of Lee and Speights, was insignificant in both games.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400578581

    http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400578971

    These should be a good approximation of what they’ll face in the playoffs, against the tougher defensive teams. And weaknesses are exposed.

    Bogut’s value seems to be greatest when he doesn’t actually play, and the two games suggest he didn’t make that much of a difference. He certainly wouldn’t have made a difference on offense and more likely would have hurt. He couldn’t score against the Bulls front court, and having him in the game left one major opening—Green for 3’s, which he hit that night at a rate we can’t count on. Maybe they get more defensive boards with Bogut, but he’s not going to be able to stop Rose on all his drives, since his attention is spread among the front court players, and he can’t keep Rose from shooting.

    • In fact both games were close until the 4th. quarter, and they won the first in the 4th. quarter going small, with Bogut out—Speights 9 points, Green 11.

      http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20141206&game=GSWCHI

    • And Butler didn’t play last night. His scoring 24 points, went to Rose and Mirotic, another two-way big.

    • Stats don’t tell the entire story. Offensively, Bogut’s value isn’t in scoring for himself but facilitating for others so his raw numbers will never reflect his offensive threat. He isn’t as bad a drop offensively in the team-scheme as you make him out to be.

      Defensively, Bogut is a great match up against Noah, since Noah isn’t an offensive weapon that can spread the floor. His interior presence and shot blocking ability would have helped deter the guards penetrating and a bigger body in there to help fight for boards was sorely missed.

        • “Bogut’s value seems to be greatest when he doesn’t actually play, and the two games suggest he didn’t make that much of a difference.”

          If anything, these two games illustrate the value Bogut has against a team like Chicago.

          Game 1:
          – Rose didn’t score well because he shied away from Bogut’s interior presence (if I recall correctly, Feltbot even tweeted as much).
          – Bogut had a +12 even though he sat the 4th and Ws won comfortably.
          – No contribution from David Lee – inactive.

          Game 2:
          – Warriors are out-rebounded 61 – 48
          – Steph shot poorly because of any number of reasons; one undoubtedly is the lack of Bogut’s help on offense (handoffs, screens, cuts etc).
          – Chicago without Butler, their best player this season (he had 24 pts in game 1).
          – Lee has a significant contribution off the bench yet the warriors still lose.

          Your Bogut hate game is weak RGG, so weak.

          • Some people just put blinders on and watch the games, can’t imagine anyone not see Bogut’s impact on warriors game.

          • Agreed. Kind of absurd, that. Also, Dubs 27-2 with Bogut and 9-5 without. Still not a large enough sample size but it does conform to the eye test evaluations.

          • +1 +1
            I’ll add that Rose shot 7/8 from within 5ft in game 2 against Chicago this season, while shooting 0/3 by the same measure in game 1.

  2. Agree and especially Kerr not calling a time-out with Curry trapped right in front of the bench, with the lead, and seconds left. I saw Kerr calling time outs during the action in previous games. Barnes also missed crucial free throws.

  3. Thankfully–and finall– some truthful words about Iguodala. L’Affaire d’Iguodala (as you eloquently put it elsewhere) is a real issue and it has surprised me to no end that so many on this blog focus their ire on the young Barnes and his shortcomings, even though he’s cost the W’s so little. The Iguodala acquisition is likely the worst trade made in the Lacob era and has had negative repercussions for the franchise that will continue to haunt it. Not just the 4 draft picks, but also the 12m annual salary that will be almost impossible to get off the books. Despite being a capable passer he has just about the worst offensive instincts of any “3” in the entire NBA. And he is playing in fear.

    I can’t stand his purposeless and very street-ball “swaggy” dribbling. His shooting form has so much extraneous motion that it’s no wonder he lacks consistency. A 6’6″ swingman with terrible offensive instincts who’s on the down-slope of his career (not to mention injury prone) will be absolutely useless if he can’t develop an outside shot. That he’s a horrendous foul shooter only makes matters worse. His only real saving grace is his defense, which will continue to deteriorate. The Warriors will have heaps of trouble dumping him, mark my words.

    Shaun Livingston and Iguodala make each other somewhat redundant. I’ve been disturbed to see smaller guards blaze right past him and still remember two games ago his standing idly by while a Celtic (Pressy?) casually launch and make a 3. I saw Kerr bury his face in his hands…

    But Livingston will be far easier to dump than Iguodala given his much less onerous salary and the fact that he’s not on the decline in his career. He’s an awkward fit for the Dubs with his lack of an outside shot and discomfort with a faster pace (his game would fit in much better with a Mark Jackson led team).

    Even though I thought I’d never say this at this stage of the season, but of the 3 of them, I’d prefer having Barnes on the team next year than either Iggy or Livingston–perhaps even irrespective of their salaries (I’ll have to think about that further…). Projecting Iguodala’s decline into the future I expect him to be about as useful as BRush, only he’ll be 12m dollars richer and counting. At least he’ll be well set up for that business he’s been planning once he puts his other foot in full retirement. He’s halfway there already….

    Okay Barnes haters, go at it!

    • Iguodala probably had his worst game of the season but can’t pile on a player who finished games that earned warriors 36-7 record, same way you can’t pile on a starting SF for 36-7 record team. In a long season, it happens.

      • I’m not “piling on” after just this one game, I’ve been saying this for a while. Iguodala does not finish all games and I can assure you he will finish fewer and fewer unless he improves. I have said for a while now that Barnes is better suited to start as he adds more of what is needed to the starting unit.

        I was also speaking in great part about his career “trajectory” and where his game is headed–in addition to how costly a mistake the trade was.

        He still adds value and is an above average player–indeed, a nice player to bring off the bench. But his game is declining and I’m not sure his head and passion are entirely in the game right now.

        • the iguodala trade/signing in the context of its time was a tremendous coup for lacobite p.r. and marketing. the blogs were filled with swooning over the ‘myers miracle’. the player had made a much publicized apology for his team’s curry-crunch tactics, at the end of a career season leading injury depleted Den into the playoffs. and of course they’d never hear the end of the ‘dead $$’ chants as long as biedrins and jefferson were on the payroll. if you consider the cost of iguodala to be excessive, don’t overlook how the price of ezeli’s draft pick was connected — there’s no pick without swallowing jefferson’s SA contract.

          teams make costly personnel mistakes all the time, including popovich/buford who gave jefferson the bloated contract. last season iguodala was a factor in significantly raising both the expectations for the team (contributing to the critically important coaching change) and the lacobites’ revenues. the writing on the wall came in the playoffs last spring, when a vet like iguodala is expected to make a winning difference. he might still have a few wins left in his game, and there’s little point in hoping for anything more, but his cost isn’t really going to harm them, especially after the cap balloons in July ’16.

          • Moto,
            I’m not sure exactly where you stand on this issue–along with several others. The only thing that is clear is that you can’t stand Barnes as a player and think that Lacob calls all the shots. Otherwise, you have an amazing ability to speak directly–and at length– to an issue and even offer relevant data and examples as well, and *still* not fully show your hand. It kind of reminds me of my communications with Javanese (where I lived for quite a while), who make the Japanese seem like pellucid and extremely direct–even boorish–communicators!

            NB: Not intended as an insult, just an observation…

            In any event, we’ll see how much it will cost them this year and next. By the ’16-17 season he’ll be entering the final year of his contract. But 3 years at big money has already cost (and will in the future) the Dubs dearly. 4 draft picks gone (which could be used as trade bait or to find a useful player) as well as serious opportunity costs. With and extra 12 m on hand they could have gotten a far better player instead–either last year, this year or next year. You can’t possibly ignore this.

            As you admit, he was a real disappointment in the playoffs last year and has been even worse this year. Felt is essentially saying that unless he changes for the better he should sit.

            So, was it: a) a fantastic trade b) only an acceptable trade c) a poor trade but not something that hurt–or will hurt–the Dubs in a meaningful way or d) a godawful trade and the worst during the Lacob regime?

            I choose (d). How about you?

          • Thats putting it all in context really well, Moto. I was pretty happy- and surprised- when Andre signed here. I actually remember caatching the tale end of the trade announcement on the car radio and thinking GS had landed DwightH when I heard about Jeff and Beans being moved. I was shocked when I heard it was Iggy because it was so out of the blue.

          • Monte Poole stated in his column not long ago that front office guys around the league were saying the Warriors probably would not make that trade again. Don’t know I agree, but do agree with Felt and LT that he needs to be aggressive to the rim (and please practice those FTs!).

        • Warriors sure do have a decision in hand to make regarding Iguodala over the off season.

        • somewhere in the (b) to (c) continuum is my assessment of the iguodala trade. obviously, we’re applying hindsight, with the knowledge that his legs were nearing their expiration date as the deal was being made. the level of his play for Den gave little sign of it, as lacob & son would tell you.

          Java is a wonderfully complex and beautiful place and culture. anyone drawn to the social sciences and history can benefit greatly from understanding the shadow puppet play, both as a metaphor and as a performance art transmitting cultural values and history. how some archetypes recur in both mediterranean/fertile crescent cultures that get (mis)labelled Western heritage and the Indus/Ganges culture. you must have had some fantastic experiences. mine were limited to about a week in Yogyakarta and a few hours in the Djakarta airport. quite a compliment you’ve given me.

          the iguodala transaction was completely in character with lacob’s driving motivation to conspicuously demonstrate his dynamism, urgency (sooner is nearly always better than later with him), willingness to take risks. has to be seen as a fervent suitor of howard, if his practical chances are quite slim. loves to prove his thinking is ‘outside the box’ with his major hires. he’d like to think he’s the one pushing around the shadow puppets, but he’s really one of the big, ugly, nemesis puppets. quite a few participants in the fan blogs have inflated or conflated my opinions on lacob’s Wunderkind barnes to be coming out of animus toward the individual. that’s part of the shadow show — a mercenary entertainer isn’t worth the investment of serious negative emotion.

          • I’m glad you liked the compliment–and appreciate Javanese culture. I see you used the old spelling, so it must have been a while ago! The puppet master is called the “dhalang” and they are highly revered. The plays last all night long with gamelan music accompanying it. The dhalangs are each renowned for differing qualities: e.g. being able to create different voices, ability to manipulate the puppets, storytelling, etc. The term is also used to refer to those with power who operate behind the scenes and out of view (the Javanese ideal). You reference to Lacob in this regard is, in part, quite apt.

            In response to your reply re. SF I think I should clarify some things where I was quite misleading. I don’t think a city should be judged based mainly on its “high culture”–although I do appreciate it when it’s there. Well, actually, some of it. If someone invited me to the ballet I’d suddenly come down with a mysterious illness. I also don’t know much about the goings on in opera world–nor was I one of the few members of Symphonix who had a deep understanding of “classical” music.

            What makes cities great for me is the mix of cultures, professions, ethnicities, ways of thinking, etc. that bounce off of each other and produce great results. SF, despite always being somewhat provincial, used to have much more of that and it’s a real shame to see it turn more and more into a mono-culture. Indeed, it’s becoming more of a beautiful suburb and playground for the rich. While many great American cities are suffering a similar fate, SF is far ahead of the curve. Unfortunately, it’s the one area where it is truly trendy. In this vein I did find it curious that the great institutions and types of things that cities excel in are almost all located well outside the city limits.

            I chose not to live in Manhattan because most of it has lost its sense of community. Parts of Brooklyn are heading in that direction, but most still retain a sense of community. My favorite sports bar there (every time I walked in the door the barkeeps would ask if the W’s were playing!) was populated by bus drivers, policemen, professors, cab drivers, plumbers, etc. And I like meeting and conversing with that range of people a whole lot, frankly. And I’m loath to pay exorbitant amounts of dough to live in a place where I can’t.

            I also cringed reading my line that SF unis were a “disaster” (I was comparing them to the “external” Berkeley and Stanford–also dumb). In any event, that was a disaster of a misstatement on my part! I’ve actually worked together with people at UCSF, SFSU, and USF and hold them all in high regard. I’m also a huge proponent of community colleges, in part because my mother worked at one for decades–but mainly because of the important role they play. And the Bay Area has some of the very best. I’ve actually signed contracts with Diablo Valley, Ohlone, Foothil, and De Anza. But again, they are all located outside SF.

          • I’m an SF State grad LT. Graduated 1988 when it was actually very affordable middle-class education. I’m talking $3-4,000 for a full YEARS worth of classes and expenses (off-campus). And I even remember the smoketrails of Vic Rowen and the football legacy. I was gonna bring your up critique of the schools. But you cut me off at the pass..

            Still wanna comment on all this once i read more closely.

  4. About not calling time out, I think the blame should be shared by Lee, Kerr and Curry. Lee should have called time when he got the rebound instead of passing to Curry with so many bulls around, Curry should have either called time or simply let Bulls foul him and Kerr should have screamed his lungs out for the time but he was watching and perhaps thought Curry will just get to FT line.

    • cosmicballoon

      Wrong, wrong, and right. The blame is squarely on Curry, who as a point guard needs to recognize that he has time to NOT dribble into the trap (he had room to back it out), or pass it back to DLee.

      The golden boy made a horrible pass, and shot horribly in this game. This game was a loss because Curry played his worst offensive game of the season (And that Iggy can’t/is afraid to shoot).

  5. Felt, are you suggesting a trade for Livingston. I think he is tradeable and some team can use him but do you see a better fit, better backup PG available there. May be Ramon Sessions, if he is healthy. How about Jameer Nelson ?

    I am not sure you want to make changes for this team though.

    • Feltbots observations on the Iggster are spot-on. But the third to last sentence of Feltbots latest post nails it on the head for me.

      It IS ballsy trading Liv, and may not even be possible.

      Its ballsier to build the foundation of a great team, set them up for a deep playoff run, and sit on your hands and hope its enough without exploring potential ways of strengthening weak points that have become manifest through the season.
      I’d love to see JameerNelson in a W’s uni.

      • I think it is team’s option for next year for Livingston, which means he is pretty much expiring contract who can actually help a slow pace team, so he is tradeable. Like you said, it is ballsy move trading Liv but it is possible. Hornets is looking for a PG with Walker out I believe, so there are teams that can use Livingston.

      • We’ll have to see if Livingston can somehow be transformed–or utilized differently. I can tell you that *all* Net fans love Livingston. And Thibodeau himself went out of his way to praise him earlier in the year–essentially saying that W’s fans have no idea what a gem they’re getting. West did as well.

        I knew he was an awkward fit but also that he had some real strong suits. I’ve been disappointed with his defense of late (he seemed better earlier in the year). He simply doesn’t seem to be able to stay in front of quick guards.

        @rzz: glad to hear you went to SF State. You went there during its heyday. I’m an absolute huge fan of the entire CSU system and am disconsolate that it–and the rest of the California higher ed system–is being de-funded. The resulting increase in student debt and decrease in assets devoted to education is a shame on the state. It was (and probably still is) the world’s greatest state university system and something all Californians should be immensely proud of. Now everyone: cough up the cash to keep it great!

        • Bravo LT. As to Livingston, utilize him as a Wing without the ball in his hands. I saw he’s skilled at moving without the ball, finding the open spots around the hoop. I also saw him hit face-up mid-range jumpers. And by all means post him up, if he can shoot immediately or with not more than 1 dribble and if not pass immediately. He would be more effective guarding 2’s and 3’s than PG’s. Certainly the Clips could use him (or Iguodala) as a Wing.

          • Funny you mention the Clips. One of my best friends is a Clips fan and we both agree that these two expendable parts (not both expendable at the same time mind you) would be outstanding additions to their team. They desperately need long wing defenders. But a trade to a heated rival like that is highly unlikely. And, again, we’re likely stuck with Iguodala for better or worse.

  6. My response to Hat from previous blog:

    hat, Bulls had like 10 plus more second chance points than dubs. Overall, warriors outrebounded by 13 in a game in which bulls had way more TOs than warriors. The only reason, Bulls were in the game through three quarters was because of second chance points. Their offensive rebounding also encouraged Rose and Hinrich keep chucking the ball which worked to their advantage as their bigs were snatching offensive rebounds and airballs.

  7. Spot-on Felty observation that I also made to my girlfriend the moment it happened:

    Iggy: It wasn’t just the two he missed. It was the two he was afraid to take. That’s what happened on the play that Steve Kerr complained to the refs about. It wasn’t on the refs, it was on Iggy. When he saw that his opponent had left his feet and he was about to get fouled, Iggy took a crab dribble under the basket to escape the contact. A high school player would have known how to go up strong and take the foul. It wasn’t about that. It was about FEAR.

    Just wonder then: Could Iggy now have the locker that Biedrins used?? Maybe there’s some leftover Latvian Freethrow Funk (LFF, for short) in there that needs fumigation….Bill Belichick and Red Auerbach and Al Davis would be investigating ways to BOTTLE LFF and SPRAY it on dudes at crunch-time.

    • Iggy will improve his FTs, he seemingly improved last year as the season went on.

    • Love the LFF line. Bravo!

    • cosmicballoon

      The blown fast break was the worst play of the night from Iggy. He had a clear path to the basket, yet decided to drop it off to Klay who was totally covered. (Klay probably should have run to the corner, rather than the rim on that play).

  8. LT: So i.guess you preferred the
    Warriors to keep Biedrens and
    Jefferson and not obtain Iggy.
    Hmmm! Loved Iggy and his three
    steals last night.

    Lose a game, trade Livingston. No
    surprise there even though theWarriors
    the Bulls with him on the court. It
    would be nice to place a 53 percent with
    a 45 percent shooter who can’t defend
    the perimeter.

    No mention that we lost,in part, because
    Bogut not playing. Shameful. Why the
    silence ? It puts Feltyball in the toilet.
    As I’ve repeatedly said, it’s going to
    be harder beating good teams
    without Bogut.

    Warriors shooting declined throughout
    the game. Result of Kerr running team
    into the ground?

    By the way, David Les is back.

    • Frank,

      I most certainly would!

      Besides the 3 steals what else did you like about his game? Felt’s spot on: If Iguodala is afraid to shoot or be fouled there is no way he can be in the game when it matters. Period.

      Getting that for tying up 48m in cap space and giving up 2 first rounders and 3 2nd rounders is a horrible trade any way you look at it.

      The W’s should have amnestied Biedrins, of course–but he was in the last year of his contract.

  9. cosmicballoon

    I mentioned this above, but I need to repeat. Last night was Curry’s worst shooting performance of the season. He missed at least 3 uncontested 3s including in the 4th quarter and OT. If he makes ANY of those, the Ws win. I think he probably was sick and didn’t have much in the tank after trying to stay in front of D-Rose. Additionally, Speights needs to regain his focus. If he’s not going to hit jump shots like he was early in the season, he loses a lot of his worth.

    David Lee is back offensively, but he showed his limitations on defense last night. D Rose doesn’t get so many un-impeded romps at the rim with Bogut in the game. Nor does Noah get so many easy putbacks. The Bulls have a lot of heart, but they don’t actually match up with the Warriors if Bogut is playing. (You can guard Gasol with Bogut and Noah with anyone).

  10. here’s another question- with or without the flu (i thought i saw him blowing his nose in his jersey too – and everyone I know has this nasty headcold right now) — and with the ability to crossmatch klay on rose, why did Kerr have curry hounding rose (who was looking pretty fast btw) all night long?

    I only saw Klay on rose a couple of times near the end. Is hinrich going to post curry up or something? I think not. This whole preoccupation with curry playing amazing D is misplaced. He can be solid, has great hands and instincts, we know this. That’s all you need from him – be solid, don’ t get embarrassed, get a few picks…

    Why does the best offensive weapon in the league have to play like Avery Bradley on D? Bradley plays that hard because he can’t shoot like Steph, D is his mealticket.

    Look, I play ball 2x a week and getting the d assignment on a speed demon means less legs at the end of the game. Which is when you need them if you are going to be called upon to win it all with a J, especially from distance.

    Also, and I think someone pointed this out before, but being so tired at the end of the game – running on fumes, its almost a delirium – even when you are a 12th degree black belt like steph (that ridiculous, gave it everything he had drive for a bucket at the end) you are more prone to injury, because you are less in control…

    • You’ve made a very important point about Curry’s high energy defense. Even though he’s playing fewer minutes than last season he’s expending more energy each game. And it’s not just the energy on D, but also on O because the team runs so much and plays at such a fast pace. That’s yet another reason why a strong back up PG is so necessary. Livingston hasn’t quite fit the bill yet and I doubt they’ll trade their prize off-season acquisition this year, even if they could.

  11. LT: The trade that garnered Iggy has
    been great for the Warriors. No one would
    have preferred to have Biedrens and
    and Jefferson playing last year. And
    the two first round picks given up were
    not going to be lottery picks. And a team
    can many times buy pick late first round picks.
    The giving up the second round pick is
    virtually meaningless.

    Iggy has played better this year defensively
    but not quite as good offensively this year.
    But, he’s shooting 52 percent from the field
    is good fora guy coming off the bench.
    SG are shootingonly 35 percent against Iggy,
    Sf’s 41 percent, and PF’s 37 percent. 82 games.
    Those are terrific defensive stats He’s a lock
    down defender and he was against the Bulls.

    And garnering three steals against Bulls
    deprived the Bulls of three possessions and
    resulted in the Warriors having three
    extra possessions. That’s big time. He
    also had three assists and committed only
    1 turnover in 23 minutes of action.

    He’s worth every single dollar he’s being
    paid and will be paid the remaining of
    his contract.The Warriors are a plus 11 with
    him on the court and would not have enjoyed
    the successthey have had without him.

    • Frank,

      First of all, Igguodala played 27 minutes, not 23. He also had a turnover, so that’s only two extra possessions. He also only had one rebound. And as far as his scoring and shooting went: bagels all the way. But perhaps most important is the fact that, at present, he can’t be in close games at the end because he’s playing in fear. That’s truly appalling for such an expensive acquisition.

      He’s “closed” some games but that has mainly been because most games were blowouts. Kerr also has to assuage his ego and letting him play a few minutes at the end of games is part of the bargain he made with him.

      As for his “better” defense this year. I don’t know how you can assess that. When energized he does still play excellent defense (I’ve said that many times). But my guess is that with age and injuries taken into account it’s highly unlikely that he is getting better on defense as he gets older. As for the stats you cite, please remember that most of the time he’s playing against the other teams’ 2nd unit–as opposed to last year where he was mostly playing against the opposing first teams.

      His inability to score–even against 2nd teams who are not paying any attention to him on offense is truly mind blowing. I’ve talked to many Sixer fans and they all assure me that his terrible offensive skills and instincts were always there. Now with his weak legs, aging body–and less than fully invested attitude (my sense) he’s heading in the direction of being an albatross for the team with his bloated contract.

      I also think it’s unfair to dismiss the 5 draft picks. The W’s have done quite well with some of their later picks in the past and with 5 shots at it, likely would have picked up 1 or 2 quality players. The picks could also be used in trades. Also, the massive and disproportionate salary prevents the team from acquiring other, higher quality players.

      Sure, the W’s are better with Iguodala than without him. But that’s an unfair claim as it ignores what they could have had without him (i.e. with the 5 picks and 12m extra to spend).

  12. mugsee, Art, et al. @1—

    Blue in the face time. The point isn’t that Bogut is worthless, but that he has limited value. Of course he would have helped manage the assault of size from the Bulls, but you have to weigh the +/– of the whole game. You’re not going to find perfect matches for games, but the two Chicago games were close enough for comparison. What is significant is the fourth quarter—and at the beginning of the fourth quarters, the teams were about dead even.

    As for your specific points, Bogut would have stopped some drives the other night, but he can’t be everywhere, is slow, and has limited range. But Rose was returning from injuries the first game, having missed 8 games prior, and was still tentative. And both Butler and Rose were shut down almost entirely by the smaller Warrior unit 4th Q, without Bogut, 5 points between them on poor shooting.

    Go ahead. Look at the game flow. I linked it, above.

    Curry was just off (and likely ill). He got plenty of good looks the other night, but wasn’t hitting. And he doesn’t need a screen from Bogut to get open—he can shoot off a screen from anyone, and only needs a fraction of a second.

    The notion that Bogut improves the offense just isn’t true. He may be more useful playing up top and passing, but he offers nothing offensively himself. There is no reason to guard him. He necessarily slows down the pace of the offense. And that puts pressure on the rest of the team. When you put him on the court with Barnes, a passive scorer, the options are much more limited and the pressure on the guards greater. Green is the only other option, and you have to hope he hits.

    And that is what the Warriors will see in the playoffs against the larger, better defensive teams. The Chicago games were a good test. It is what we saw time again last season. The starting lineup will be less effective scoring. It is the reason Bogut didn’t close against teams like OKC and San Antonio. The smaller unit—Lee, Green, Klay, Steph, and Iguodala—were much more effective overall at the end. The argument that the Warriors are 28-2 with Bogut, Ftiz’s argument, is bogus, as is his claim that Bogut is the second most valuable player on the team. And blue in the face time again, it’s Fitz’s obsessive and exaggerated claims that partly motivate my comments. The competition for most of those games was weak. Also the team was able to run the ball and shot tremendously well in those games, in part because they were able to get into an offensive rhythm. Both of those will be challenged and limited in the playoffs.

    The rebounding margin was about the same for both Chicago games, and offensive boards were identical for both teams, about even and the same both games—Fitz kept complaining it was killing the Warriors. Chicago is deep with big men anyway, who can all score. Look at what Mirotic did. Bogut can’t be everywhere.

    What matters is overall plus/minus, how much the team can compensate the loss of boards with superior offense from a faster, more flexible team. On defense, they will need to get boards from the perimeter players—Klay stepped up the last game—but they will be faster and more mobile and can intimidate more. More importantly, they will be a faster, deeper, more flexible scoring team with Bogut out.

    And this is the issue. Kerr, early, said he wants to close with Bogut. Really, we don’t know how it will work out, as Bogut missed some of the tougher games and sat anyway in all the blowouts.

    Rebounds and big defensive players may give peace of mind, but you pay a price, and the price is overall scoring margin and wins.

    The question is why they smaller unit didn’t score more the second game. I think Kerr was vacillating. I was surprised he didn’t keep Lee in, after his fine 3rd. quarter performance. I suspect he had Speights’ performance 4th. Q the first game in mind—9 points—then later changed his mind. Also Chicago was much more stepped up this game and Curry was just off. They almost pulled it out anyway. Really, Kerr seemed indecisive in his substitutions the whole quarter.

    There’s no way to answer Harry’s repeated accusations of hatred. But he seems to enjoy this indulgence and I see no cause to counter.

    • rgg,

      Art said this “Your Bogut hate game is weak RGG, so weak.”, not me.

      Bulls are +10 or so on second choice points. Kirk Hinrich’s 3 that forced OT, came off the offensive rebound. 1st game, Green scored 31 pts and 7 3 ptrs, an exception that overcame other reasons to lose the game.

      • Sorry. The word has been flying freely here.

        Bogut did get 7 offensive boards the first game, in limited play. But in general he only averages a couple a game. And given the depth of the size of the Bulls, it’s not surprising. The Bulls will get offensive boards. And there isn’t good reason to think that Bogut closing 4th. quarter, overall, would have tipped the scales, and more reason to think it wouldn’t have. (Who got the board that led to Heinrich’s shot, anyway?) And Green’s scoring the first game exemplifies my point. With Bogut and Barnes in, they HAD to have his shooting to win.

        The real point is that the Warriors faced a good simulation of playoff competition in both Chicago games. And I am heartened they tied, and came within an inch of winning both. They are good. But we don’t know how good yet.

        The main issue is what adjustments they need to make for the playoffs. I outlined above what I though was necessary, which Kerr has done on occasions and has worked in the past. The problem with this season, for so many reasons, is they we don’t have many games to gauge the team against the top competitors. I guess we’ll find out.

        • “is we don’t have many games to gauge”

          Just for the record, the Warriors lost to both the Clippers and Memphis without Bogut. They absolutely need him against both teams. It’s just hard to know what to make of the OKC games, when you look at the players who were out. The loss to full strength OKC was without Bogut (against whom Bogut will have limited value) AND Iguodala. Plus OKC was fired up for revenge.

          It’s hard to know what to make of Iguodala this season, for so many reasons. But I do know what he was capable of only a season ago and how much he influenced the team. My argument is that he will have to return to form to make a deep run in the playoffs.

          • Would you agree warriors would have won against Clippers if one of the following two happened:

            * Started the series with Green as starter
            * Home court advantage

            If you agree with the above and with better coaching and more depth, this team can beat Clippers even without Bogut. Winning against Memphis or Spurs without Bogut would be tough though even with home court advantage.

          • The Clippers are just off this season. The whole Warrior team was flat Christmas day, so I don’t make anything of that. But if the Clips return to form, they will need Bogut in the playoffs (though nearly beat them in the playoffs without him, up to the last minutes of the 7th. game). And against Memphis. OKC and the Spurs, full strength, if that happens, are much trickier propositions, in part because they don’t rely on dominant front court players (or Duncan can pull out).

        • Losing against a team like Bulls in a hard fought game is no shame. Also, for every decision coach makes, there are 10 other ways he can go. To our luck, he is making more good decisions than bad and in 3 more months he will be even better come playoff time. Ofcourse, as fans and as bloggers, it is entertainment for us to ponder those choices especially when they lose and with the advantage of hindsight. I agree with Kerr playing Speights at C and Lee at PF as that is what I have seen work for warriors this season. To confirm my perception, I checked 82games.com which confirmed my perception. I am happy warriors fan and happy with Kerr too and 36-7 record means he gets benefit of doubt.

          • There is no criticism of Kerr. Again, I am encouraged by their performance against Chicago. And he has to do the best he can with the lineup he’s been give, whose problems on several fronts have been noted here at length.

            Also he just hasn’t been given a lot to work with this season as he plans for the playoffs, as I keep saying. He’ll get better evidence soon, against the top teams. He—and we—will have much to learn in those.

    • Oh, while we’re at it—there’s a bug going around. How many NBA players are playing now with flu like symptoms?

    • “The notion that Bogut improves the offense just isn’t true.” You seem to have an terribly narrow view on what constitutes improvement.

      Bogut’s presence has a neutral to slightly positive impact on the starters offence; good passing, excellent screens, limited scoring shots. His availability does make the bench offence far better by limiting the need for Lee and Speights to bang with the better interior starters such as Cousins, Gasol and Griffin. Speights/Lee/Igoudala will overwhelm any bench frontcourt they come up against 4 games out of 5 if they are reasonably fresh; why would you give up that significant advantage for the dubious and unproven benefit (28-2 vs. 9-5, etc.) of sitting Bogut makes no sense.

      Bogut’s game – the passing out of the high post, screens and occasionally ball-handling – also plays far better with the starters than with the bench. Bogut and Lee together is not good, neither is effective past 8 feet.

      Summary: Bogut is fine just where he is.

  13. I want to give a quick recap on the “Taste of the Warriors” event held at Pier 48 last night. Each season ticket holder received a pass for each name on his account. I’m on the opposite end of the spectrum as far as fans go. I haven’t been to more than 40 Warrior games in 40 years, so I was looking forward to attending.
    The event as advertised was from 6pm- 9. There was free parking smack dab in the huge lot where they’re going to build the new arena. Some decent views of the waterfront. We got there at 5:20 and got in a long line that quickly multiplied. It also seemed to grow two opposing heads that met at the entrance. It was a long wait but the fans were very civil, good-natured with alittle bit of griping (especially from those who went to the event at the Coliseum parking lot last year). But alot of nice BBall talk and we finally got in at 7.

    If I was a season tix holder a would have been a liitle non-plussed. I was looking forward to the “50 food trucks” and had visions of fat Burritos and Kogi sliders dancing in my mind. Instead it was organized chaos and long “lines” for tiny plastic bites of food. I’m good at this free-for-all approach because I lived in mexico City for 3 years and took the bustling Metro everywhrere but felt a bit bad for the average civilized citizen patiently waiting in line for a taste. Especially those with kids.

    There was an Adonal Foyle siting. And I shook Ron Adam’s hand and complimented him. He was actually milling with the masses. There was a long line for autographs with Alvin Gentry. Dray and Shaun got up onstage and were interviewd by Roz gold-Uwunde. Shaun was very articulate and stressed that Steph was the man and that he was just here to do whatever he could to help the team win. I saw Steve Kerrs head amid a mass of humanity. Beer and wine were ez to get.

    There were also clusters of warrior girls milling about :) They look a lot younger and shorter in person..

    On the way out they were handing out boxes of Sarunas Marcuilonus (you try spelling it) bobble heads. I gave my to some kid on the walk to the the lot. It was a fun evening.

    • I didn’t mean the food tasted like plastic. It was actually very tasty. I meant to say it was served in tiny plastic bowls or small paper plates.

      I always cringe at the amount of one-and-done waste generated at events like this. And sporting events in general. But I’m digressing..

      • most food trucks in SF, oaktown, emeryville, berserkley, marin use compostable single serving containers and utensils. if the lacobites failed to do so, it only confirms my prediction about his xanadu polluting the bay side. thank you for the report.

    • You gave me an idea. When’s the bobblehead of Feltbot coming out?

      When you push down on the head, it—

      • Warrior fans (at least most of ’em) are very knowledgeable fans and I asked my invitor if he ever read Feltbots blog. And a couple of other fans I had long conversations with. They all hadn’t. But I recommended it.

    • You didn’t get to meet the guy in the fast food truck ads? (Wow, I’m tired of him.)

    • rzz, since you’re fortunate to have experience of actual Mexican cooking, which is some of the most complex, sophisticated, soulful of any of the great cuisines — what are your favorite spots to have it in the bay area.

      • Funny you mention that Moto. I don’t like to abuse this sitet but was thinking about leaving a few reviews. They’re mainly of the extreme budget variety (lo-budget). For now I just one to chime in a major, major controversy. The city’s best Burrito (I know its not Mexican). Its el Farolito. Go to the one on 24th and Mission right next to the Bart stop, not the other. I’ve been eating them for 20 yrs and the quality has remained consistent, the size heavy and price for the fare outstanding inSF. Carne asadas excellents but i always go for the spicy chicken. I could drink their salsa verde by the cup load. Of course you can’t go wrong with la Taqueria.
        Theres a very under the radar restaurant right up 24th street off Mission. Its El Trebol and a husband and wife team from El Salvador have run it for as long as I can remember. Get the Chicken and fried plantains with crema fresca. Its 3 stars and 1 dollar sign..

        • gracias, muy amable. those are good eats, and Farolito is pretty famous, but mi esposa querida y yo don’t usually eat at the budget places anymore with health and environmental (factory pig/chicken farms are gruesome for all the species working therein) concerns. we do enjoy la comida salvadorena but didn’t get to el Trebol, no longer in business.

          • Thank you Moto. I also have heard el Trebol is shut for good but refuse to believe. They’ve always kept very intermittent hours and you never really knew if it was gonna be open or not, which was part of the fun. I don’t want to believe it
            I will post the occasional shout-out to a place I feel really merits it. I still don’t eat in many hi-end restaurants. In Mexico d.f. I was surviving and didn’t want to come back and mi comida was extremely middle class Mexican. 75% of mi desayunos were street Tortas under 12 pesos. (It was 13 pesos to a $). Awesome toasted buns stuffed with a a foundation of fried eggs and avocado, often with the incredible frijoles negros fried up in lard gratis. Street food composed a large part of my diet. I was crazy and would try anything. A shrimp cocktail with flies buzzing around in didn’t deter me. A lot of the vendors sold shots of tequila also so I just followed up my meals with a shot or two to take care of any potential bacterium. Many times I was invited into people’s homes and served very basic and authentic Mexican stews, moles, and delicious tamales, with some interesting takes on Pulque to refresh.
            The Mexican people have incredibly strong family values and my time there remains one of my favorite.

          • I have concerns about these things as well but when eating out this is often the norm–unless you’ve got mucho dinero to throw about.

            I love Mexico and need to spend more time in d.f. for sure.

            One shout out to Nicaragua, however. I take food pretty seriously and was simply amazed how delicious the food was there. Much of it is free range and relatively “organic”. Plus, you can eat delicious fish from the lakes that exist nowhere else. I stayed on a finca that had 6 different kinds of organic plantains and we feasted on a wild boar for two days. Big Ag has not yet dominated the culinary environment there…yet.

            In any event, it was a totally unexpected delight. Muy muy sabroso!

          • Wow. Sounds like a slice of heaven.

            It’s funny how long it takes chicken, for example, to start smelling a bit foul (xuse the bad pun) in America..

            Still wanna read your guys interesting Sf thread

            My go to spot is now el salvs. My hermano mayor married a salvadorean girl and they bought a rancho on the playa for 15k. It’s a huge lot surrounded by an 8 ft wall with a cinder block Casa and crazy pila for cooking. Acahutla is a major El Sav port and she’ll return from a trip into town with a cooler full of lobster and mahi for 20 US dollars.
            Don’t get her started on Bay Area pupusas. I don’t think she’s found an adequate one yet

            I didn’t get a damn thing done today at work.

          • rzz, you might enjoy one of our mission district favorites, la Torta Gorda on 24th. it’s on the next higher price tier compared to Farolito or la Tacqueria, but either of their two sizes of tortas is a meal, and the cooking is made to order fresh. much more like a neighborhood diner than the usual fast food tacqueria, some regional dishes from Puebla, a very good huitlacoche quesadilla.

  14. Lt: Last year, playing against Iggy,
    SG’s shot 48 percent, SF’s 46 percent
    PF’s 50 percent. 82 games. This year
    those percentages. are 36, 41, and 37
    respectively. a whopping decline.
    Yees, defensively, he is better.

    Also, offensively, he’s ok especially
    When considered in conjunction with
    His Alastair like defense. As
    he shoots 51 percent on 2’s and 36
    percent on 3’s, both decent stats.

    One can see why the Warriors have excelled
    and will continue to. None of those who
    have been drafted would have possessed
    his talent. They would, at best. be Ezeli
    Type players and probably not as good as
    Holiday who was undrafted. Plus you
    underestimate the value of having an
    experienced player, not a rookie. In
    addition, we already have a fairly deep
    roster.

    To bad you don’t appear to find
    meaningful that one player has a
    net plus 2 in extra possessions and
    2 less that opponent had for the game.
    The number is huge.

    It’s ok to form opinions based on what
    you see but at the very least you should
    dig deeper as defensive stats don’t appear
    In box scores.

    • Iggy, no doubt is good but can’t say he is better than last year. His defensive numbers going up may have something to do with guarding lesser talented players of the 2nd unit.

  15. Some might find Iggy’s FDS interesting. (FDS: Steals+blocks per 36, applies to wings only)

    This year: 1.7
    Last year: 2
    Previous year: 2.5

    Note that in normal circumstances you might expect his FDS to go up this year, as he is playing fewer minutes, playing against weaker players, and supposed to be healthier. So it’s hard to argue against a decline in his athleticism — or chronic injury.

    Other qualifying Warriors:
    Draymond: 3.4 (Doesn’t actually qualify: should definitely be discounted as he’s playing four and five, and getting more block chances. but still clearly off the charts.)
    Klay: 2.4 (amazing given his level of athleticism. A true indicator of his genius.)
    Barnes: 1.1 (I think 1.5 is the mediocrity level for small forwards. Barnes truly has one of the lowest FDS among SF starters in the league. If not THE lowest.)

    Holiday doesn’t qualify for analysis as he’s a short-timer, which makes it easier to over produce. But in case you were wondering, his FDS would be genius level for wing starters: 3.0

    Livingston also doesn’t qualify as he’s not only a short timer but also guards pgs quite a bit (more steal opps.), but his FDS is also quite good: 2.0

    • Actually, on the assumption that Livingston guarded mostly wings, he had a qualifying season (26m per game) last year, with an FDS of 2.3. So FDS would confirm that he was a very good wing defender last year.

      He’s since had another birthday, and a toe injury that may or may not still be giving him trouble. His FDS has declined when it might have gone up (though it’s still good), and we can all see that he can’t stay in front of point guards. But again, his minutes are too short this season to produce a reliable statistical indicator.

    • FDS of Western Conference contending SFs:

      Leonard: 2.7
      Allen: 2.5
      Ariza: 2.2
      Durant: 1.9
      Batum: 1.9
      Tucker: 1.6
      Evans: 1.6
      M. Barnes: 1.5
      Parsons: 1.2
      H.Barnes: 1.1

      There it is peoples. Do with it what you want.

      • You are not considering two important factors into your stat and hence your stat is incomplete. Rebounding and opponent FG%. Barnes is better than Ariza for example in both. Securing a rebound is very important part of defense. Steals are overrated, in my opinion. You can gamble and get lot of steals but be a mediocre defender like Monta Ellis or Jamal Crawford.

      • Qualitative observation supports the ranking.

    • FWIW, I wouldn’t value blocks as highly as steals. In ezPM, for example, steals are worth 1 point (roughly the average PPP in the league) while a block is only worth ~0.7 points because they don’t always end a possession.

      • You are correct that steals are worth more to a team. But I’m using FDS as an indicator of something far more intangible, which is defensive ability. Athleticism, length, IQ, consistency, desire, and will to win are all factors. I’m comfortable leaving it where it is, as it simply never produces a bad result for me. See anything to disagree with in the ranking?

        I also have a general opinion that the less opaque a stat is, the better it rewards thinking. This is about as sausage as I get.

    • green’s blocked shots would put him fifth among the power forwards, and in twelfth among centers, not really big drops relative to his place among the 3’s, second to josh smith, obviously not playing solely at the 3 either.

  16. Tired of hearing references to second
    units. As there is no such thing as a
    second unit as most times there are
    starters on the floor.

    One must keep in mind the Warriors
    lead the NBA in offense and defense.

    Posters mostly go off on players for
    lack of some offensive skill and fail
    to realize how good they are on
    defense. Glad Warrior management
    Is not making that mistake.

    For me, every Warrior is earning
    their salary and would should
    look at all senators and keep in mind
    that Curry is being vastly
    underpaid, in fact, half as much
    as he should be earning.

    LT, if you want to see great
    neighborhoods and terrific HS
    basketball players l, come to New
    Jersey.

    • Frank,

      In fact, I lived in both Teaneck and Ridgefield Park while working in Bloomfield. I have fond memories of my year there.

      I’ll respond the Iggy comments later.

  17. This 82 game schedule is ludicrous. I don’t think the game can tolerate it much longer.

    • 58 games, every team plays the others twice.

      5 games every two weeks

      *no* back-to-backs (this is the most ridiculous aspect of the schedule)

      for the playoffs, seed teams all together according to their regular season record

    • Reduce TV and attendance revenue by 30%.

      Not gonna happen.

      In negotiating the Collective Bargaining Agreement, the Player’s Association agrees to 82 games every time. It’s how many times they get to shake the money tree.

      The NBA is actually moving to increase revenue, not reduce it. They’re increasing promotion for D League teams, playing international games (to raise the interest level worldwide), and so on.

    • WheresMyChippy

      I like the idea of just spreading the games out more.

      Add a couple weeks to the beginning and end of the season and do away with back to backs.

  18. Felt and Evanz,

    You can be a good defender without showing it in stats, without showing it in terms of steals and blocks. Prime example is Marc Gasol and our own Iggy. Marc Gasol, DPOY with 1.3 blocks and 1.3 steals. 1.3 blocks per game for a C is mediocre, you would think. Moving your feet, being early in position to play D etc.. don’t show up in the stat. Only stat so far that might give indication of good defense probably is DFG%.

    So, pardon me, but I disagree with your attempts to show the defense through your respective algorithms.

  19. Frank,

    I try not to respond to every single point in my replies in part because I already have been accused for occupying too much real estate–and also because it would be exhausting. Also, please note that when I do not reply to a particular point it neither means I agree or disagree with it. But this one time I will try and answer them all.

    Another poster (either here or elsewhere, can’t remember) put it well when he said the Iguodala Affair reminded him of the “Emperor’s New Clothes.” Spot on, I thought; Igoudala’s been an absolute disaster for what we gave up to get him (i.e. a hell of a lot) and few seem to notice or care. On this site, I sense that the dislike for Barnes (and, by extension, Lacob) is tied to this. Indeed, the opposite side of the Barnes hater coin is the Iguodala apologist.

    Iggy’s shooting 34.7% from distance and 51% from the line–neither of which are good. He’s also only averaging 6.8 ppg, which is ridiculously low. Anyone who’s watched the W’s the last two years–along with Sixer fans who were “treated” to this for years–will readily tell you that he’s offensively “challenged.” But perhaps most important is what you did not respond to: i.e. the fact that he’s playing with fear and cannot be relied upon in close games. I’ll bet you that every single Warrior fan was actually relieved that the referees did not put Iggy on the line at the end of the game. I can assure that Iguodala himself was greatly relieved. I know I certainly was–in part because it would have potentially been so painful and embarrassing for him. I was actually begging Kerr to keep his mouth shut: you’d better be careful of what you wish for, or you might get it! Giving away 5 picks and huge amounts of cap space for a player that fearful is quite unfortunate, wouldn’t you agree?

    Sorry, but Iguodala does play a higher % of the game against the 2nd unit as compared with last year. This does mean something.

    Arguing that it’s unlikely that any of the 5 picks would be as good as the un-drafted Holiday is simply a weak argument. How can you know that? We’ve also got Draymond and Ezili as counter points. There’s no guarantee any of the would be quality players but the likelihood is pretty high that one or two would be.

    I tend to shy away from using “advanced” statistics because I find them often to be very misleading, at best. I’ve had the good fortune of having had to use statistics both in my graduate studies and professional work and I can assure you that the vast majority grossly misuse these statistics–in great part because they don’t understand the basic fundamentals of sample size, accounting for variables, standard deviation, etc. Basketball games are so dramatically different from play to play–let alone game to game–that the sample size needs to be vastly greater than most understand for these statistics to be deployed the way they often are. They’re not useless and can be used to understand tendencies, patterns, etc. But not to say this person is better than that because of whatever advanced stat they throw out is pure silliness the vast majority of the time.

    When I do use these stats it’s to counter what I consider to be foolish points. When someone (I forgot who) was going on and on about how DLee would never play as poor interior defense as Draymond I pointed out that over 40 games he’s the highest rated interior defender (fg%) in the entire NBA. Now this does not mean that he’s necessarily the best at this. But it does indicate that he’s been doing quite a good job in that regard.

    I once made the mistake of entering the playpen at GSOM and some of the children there got quite upset when I didn’t acknowledge the value of their statistical toys to their satisfaction. Apparently, some of the kids from wealthier families had their parents pay for access to these statistics and they brandished them about to “prove” whatever points they happened to be making. Much worse, they scoffed and belittled anyone who didn’t use them. It was humorous to see them really throw a temper tantrum when confronted with a blog post arguing essentially what I said above.

    As for your claim that I don’t find it “meaningful” that for one game Iguodala netted 2 extra possessions, you’re absolutely correct. I’ll say it here once again: relying on one stat in one game to draw conclusions about a player’s overall performance is sheer silliness. Sorry, but I can’t say it any other way.

    But I do put more credence in season-long statistics and here, I hate to tell you Frank, you’re in really hot water. Iguodala is a NET MINUS in this regard:

    Steals pg: 1.1; Turnovers pg: 1.2

    Ooops!

    • thank you longtimer, your observations seem a bit clearer to me after you resolved to bid us farewell. the good Dr. Zamir used to be abused regularly over at g.s.o.m.(now they’re kvetching that they don’t see him much), and the subtitle on his blog reads, “a grown man’s nba blog”.

      in your view the iguodala deal is a very visible and identifiable blunder by the lacobites, but it came as a culmination of other blunders. their amnesty was expended on c.bell rather than biedrins, and the draft picks as sweeteners to UT was in part a freight charge for off loading his $$. their animus against s.jackson was also very expensive when the disposal cost of jefferson is included.

      • Thanks? Not sure how to take that “compliment.” I thought I had been pretty straightforward ’til now. Why the new understanding?

        I am preparing for my leave. Why has this been extended? In part, because I want to make sure whether it will be a permanent absence or whether I want to leave the window open for a return in the playoffs. I’m a man of my word.

        But I also want to convey a few stories before I leave, and I’m kind of putting that off because it will take some time. No, they won’t be parodies or anything remotely critical–just b-ball stories that I think the community will appreciate.

        You and others might be happily awaiting my departure, so don’t worry, it will happen. But it’s not because I don’t like the conversations (I do)–or Felt’s takes (I still look forward to reading his musings). I’ll leave the explanation for later.

        • the burden by default should always be on the reader, kind sir, especially if he chooses to comment or respond ; so the ‘onus’ of understanding falls upon me, not on your writing. aware that any words might be your last is just another incentive to be awake. a fair portion of the participants on these fan blogs seem to read with noticeably thick filters of confirmation bias — their priority, not on understanding a text in its own terms and context, but with placing their ego poised over a lever with two settings, agree/disagree.

          • Thanks for taking the time. I certainly didn’t help matters by providing the early impression that I was coming in with guns a blazing. Actually, I wasn’t intending to come across quite that way but it’s certainly understandable why many took it as such.

            The “parody” likely didn’t help–especially since I was an unknown entity. Even calling it a parody was a misnomer. It was, rather, a send up of Felt and some of his unfortunate ideas. I was not mimicking his writing style but, rather, his bombast and aggressive tone. In the end I was just trying to have fun and give people a laugh–as well as alert Felt to his totally unnecessary unforced errors. Felt’s frequent, and epic, put downs and such gave me the green light to write in the same vein. Or so I thought. While I took pains to point out it was only a comedic effort with not harm intended, it’s tough sledding to roast the party host when you’re an uninvited guest.

    • I’m with you on Andre Indecisive. Id still rather have him than Livingston. He plays faster, defends better,and at least attempts 3 pointers at a .347% rate. “At the end of the day” were 36-7 so I will take that all day long and hope it last awhile.
      I cant even fathom what the blogs would be like if we had to talk about any of the Warrior teams from the end of Run TMC to the beginning of We Believe. Eeeek!

      What I’m finally getting to witness is an amazing consolation prize I’ve gotten for not winning Super Lotto.

      Lets Go Warriors!

      • I, too, would rather have Iguodala over Livingston, with the caveat that he can manage to stop playing in fear on the offensive end.

        In the end, your point about what an amazing year this is should always be kept in mind.

  20. Jeff Van Gundy was a guest on Zach Lowe’s latest podcast. He aggressively pushes for Draymond Green to be an all-star and get a max contract (it was recorded before teams were announced). He also described Draymond as “the best defender on the best defensive team.”

    • I think Van Gundy is spot on here.

    • It is all talk about Draymond as all star, coaches didn’t vote for him even while agreeing that he is one of best defender. Can anyone who doesn’t get voted for all star get max? I get Klay got it lot of money but it is based on potential. Green is seen as as he is as good as he can ever get. The point is despite what JVG say, Green will be warrior but hopefully to reasonable money like 10-11 mils a year.

  21. Mark Cuban must be thinking “WTF”.

  22. The Lakers whipped the Bulls ass in 2OT. Rose was a putrid 7 for 26 and 1 for 7 on 3’s with 5 turn-overs.

    Rose got lucky against the Warriors last game.

    http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400578987

    • Rose did look good against da Dubs. Someone mentioned Klay and steph suffering a lot of blow-bys. I think that happens to a lot of League guards. Rose and Brooks are’nt exactly slugs, in fact they’re two of la Ligas quickest customers. I thought Feltbot’s comparison of DRose to Kaepernick was an interesting take- give him a seam and he’ll just turn on the afterburners. Tibs kind of unleashed him that game. Like I hope the niners do with Kaep. See whats he got. Or get him killed and move on to the next guy!
      Isiah Thomas another jitterbug who has hurt the Warriors in the past. I think Sats game will be competitve and I still see the Suns in the Playoffs.
      I’m still scared OKC will hit the 8th slot and the Dubs #1. There are at least 5 other teams I’d prefer in the 1st rd.
      I expect GS to be 39-7 going in to the Dall game
      Gracias for the tip Moto

  23. LT: I ignored what you wrote regarding Iggy being
    afraid to shoot at end of the Bull game, for me,
    it’s irrelevant as I look at a player’s body of work during
    a game not just at the end of the game. And regardless of
    whether he is or not afraid to shoot fearing going to the
    foul line which I believe is debatable (didn’t he he
    win the winnings hot at the buzzer last year?), regardless
    the coach can design plays at end of games for other
    players.

    Moreover, your finding he’s not taking many shots in my
    mind is equally irrelevant as the Warriors have other
    players who shoot a higher percentage both from the field
    and the three point line and therefore if they are taking
    shots that you believe Iggy should be taken that is fine with
    me and does not negate his outstanding
    defensive contributions on the court.

    You simply ignore that SG, SF, and PF combine
    for shooting less than 40% when Iggy is guarding
    them. He’s a lock-down defender and arguably the
    Warriors best defender. Evidently, a player’s
    defense is not very important to you in
    evaluating a player.

    Contrary to your assertion he’s not a good
    shooter is belied be his overall shooting at 51
    percent. Especially when viewed against his stellar
    defense. Always nice to have players who
    out shoot their opponent in virtually every game.
    How many teams have shot that percentage
    against the Warriors this season? Not many.

    You mislead posters by claiming he’s not a positive
    extra possession guy by comparing only steals per game
    to turnovers. Extra possessions are the result of adding
    offensive rebounds and steals per game together
    and subtracting turnovers. By this standard,
    he’s a net .5 positive possession per game.

    In addition, you chose to ignore how no one he guards,
    whether SG, SF, or PF shoots more than 41 per cent
    from the field, an astounding low number. Evidently,
    defense is not a high priority for you in evaluating a
    player.

    But you’re greatest failure is to fail to recognize that basketball
    is a team game, and the Warriors outstanding record as Harry
    has accurately pointed out, is a reflection of those in the rotation
    that management have signed, and Iggy, Barnes, and Livingston
    are all important pieces to the Warriors success.

    So why you think that the Warriors screwed up trading for
    Iggy I don’t. Even if you could point a better player the
    Warriors would now have on their roster if they didn’t
    trade for Iggy and give up draft choices,
    I have little doubt that no matter
    who we drafted would not be as good as Iggy,
    and would not have contributed as Iggy has
    due to their lack of experience, nor have the trade value
    that Iggy has.

    And by the way, I also like Barnes this year.

    • I don’t think that many posters actually mislead other posters on this site. I think its more in one ear and out the other. But I do think they can tic em off..

    • Frank,
      Playing in fear of being fouled while shooting has damning consequences for the team over the entire game. It is especially awful at the end of games for obvious reasons. That you can’t see this is rather odd, I must say.

      I never complained that Iggy wasn’t taking enough shots. That was someone else. Please keep your critique of my arguments to addressing *my* arguments.

      Iguodala is nowhere near the W’s best defender; he’s the 4th best, in fact. Why do you think Klay, despite having tremendous offensive burdens, always guarded the opposing team’s best defender? But please remember that I did say that he’s an excellent defender nonetheless.

      Your claim that I don’t care about defense in evaluating players is supremely idiotic. Your claim that I don’t understand that basketball is a team game is even more so. Why do you think I’ve been arguing that Barnes should stay in as the starter even though I feel that both Iguodala and Lee are superior players? What can I say other than: You say stupid and things and you get called out for them. Simple.

      I pointed out the net possession stat in response to your claim. I myself don’t pay attention to such stats. And a +.5 “rating” isn’t too impressive, is it? Also, I never said or implied that the W’s would get a better player than Iggy in the draft. Where did I say that? Also, it’s not just the 5 picks the W’s gave up but also the eating up of the salary cap that prevents them from obtaining other players. You see Frank, there’s a thing called a “salary cap” which affects which players a team can obtain.

      Also, you can continue dreaming that Iguodala’s a good shooter if it makes you feel better.

      But in any event, Let’s just stop this. Our back and forth has devolved into pure silliness and will only serve to annoy other community members. rgg and the “Hat” have both agreed to a mutual cease fire and we’ve stopped communicating for the sake of the community. Even though my days are numbered here I suggest we agree to do the same.

      • cosmicballoon

        Wow, 4th best defensive player? Maybe 3rd best (Bogut, Klay). Who are you ranking ahead of Iggy? If you say Steph, it’s time for a debate.

        • Draymond ?? It is all relative and the truth is we have bunch of great defensive players.

        • green bails out his ‘mates and does more inside than thompson, so a case could be made that he’s equally valuable on defense and belongs in the top two or three. green is perceived by a number of other coaches and teams and media pundits as the team’s best, with his ability at 4+ positions.

          • Depends on who you ask and what metrics you use, you can make a good case for one of draymond, Klay, Bogut and Iguodala as best defender for the team.

            For me, Bogut at C impacts with his D more than anyone else given the position he plays and real estate he covers.

          • Bogut, Klay, and Draymond are all clearly considered by the current and previous coaching staffs to be superior defenders than Iguodala (this year and last). West also claimed that Holiday was as well. Bogut and Dray are without question. I mentioned Klay, simply because there might be more debate there. But clearly Jackson had more confidence in Klay’s ability to defend the opposing team’s best wing defender–or PG–than Iguodala, in spite of always having a heavier offensive burden. And Klay’s only gotten better this year as a defender.

            Iguodala’s first team all NBA selection was a joke in this regard. It *was* a Lifetime Achievement Award, as described elsewhere. In addition, Iggy claimed that his injury prevented him from playing as effective offensively (cough cough). So if it affected him so on the offensive end it surely did on the defensive side as well.

            This does NOT mean that I don’t think he’s a very strong defender. I was simply stating what I consider to be quite obvious.

          • Draymond is a much stronger and more versatile defender than Iggy. This is not even open for debate in my opinion–along with the entire coaching staff as well. Many analysts are calling for him to be the front runner for DPOY and virtually every single one has him as a major contender.

            There’s not one single analyst in the entire basketball universe who has Iggy anywhere near even sniffing this award.

  24. A quick note about how misleading statistics can be–even the most simplistic and apparently straight forward. Another poster erroneously claimed that Iguodala is shooting 51% overall when, in fact, he’s shooting 44%. The poster seems to have confused 2pt% with overall percentage, which is rather odd because distinguishing the two shouldn’t be difficult.

    Indeed, Andre Iguodala is shooting 51.7% for 2 pointers. It’s the third worst percentage among regulars in the rotation.

    The worst: Klay Thompson, who checks in at 49.9%.

    Now does this mean that Iguodala is a better shooter than Klay?

    • AFG% is good indicator of overall shooting %ages. Team average is 54% and Iguodala is 52% but same as Draymond and Shaun.

      http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/gs/golden-state-warriors

      • sorry harry that is one stat that has limited value without context. it indicates that the points yielded from his attempts is comparable to some of his teammates, but the rate he attempts those shots is third lowest on the team, lower (in most instances considerably so) than everyone except rush and kuzmic.

        • lower number of shots should have meant high %age, right ? More he takes, more likely his %ages will go do down or remain same. That said, Iguodala’s job is not to score but he should atleast keep defense honest. Same with Green. Bogut+Iguodala+Green are finishing games with Curry and Klay and that is best lineup to finish, but on the days Green and Iguodala struggling, Curry+Klay will have harder time getting their shots off.

  25. Jeff Van Gundy hearts Draymond:

    “I’m not taking Draymond Green off my AllStar list… Everybody else is open for discussion, Draymond Green is not. I think it’s that obvious… Draymond Green’s versatility and competitive spirit are as rare as a lot of these guys who put up numbers… If I was one of those teams that had a competitive spirit problem and I had salary cap room, I absolutely, on July first, would present him a maximum offer.”

    http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=12249157

    • I think van Gundy is absolutely killing Joe Lacob with this. This is not just about Draymond, this is personal.

      • quite possible that j-van G. has the anti-lacob agenda, and that would give his campaign two rich contrarian veins, clashing with all the positive p.r. lacob gets for ‘reviving a flagship franchise’, and valuing a player’s effect on his team when free agent bidding almost always follows the grossest numbers like points, assists, boards per game and shooting pct’s. as recognized as iguodala was for his teamwork, he also put up very good numbers in Den before attracting bids from Sac, GS, Dal.

        • Moto,

          Not really the case for Iggy in Denver at all. His FG%; eFG%, 3pt%, PPG, and FT% were all subpar. His assists and rebounds were fine but nothing special.

          Sorry….

          • 3’s made, second on the team, he was third on the team in boards and assists, the leader in steals, and fourth in blocked shots. the percentages you don’t like happened in the context of high usage and minutes when several of the regulars on his team missed chunks of games.

          • @Moto

            “3’s made, second on the team”–are you kidding me? He shot 31.7%!!

            You never once mentioned where he ranked on his team at all–most likely because it’s not important. Here’s what you *did* say:

            “free agent bidding almost always follows the grossest numbers like points, assists, boards per game and shooting pct’s. as recognized as iguodala was for his teamwork, he also put up very good numbers in Den”

            His numbers are not strong as you claimed–many of them are quite weak, in fact. And I, like a sucker, made the effort to respond directly to your claim. In fact, you never addressed any of the numbers I mentioned in direct response to your quote.

            Instead, you moved the goalposts which is intellectually dishonest.

            I thought you were above such things…

          • @Moto

            Also, you said that free agency contracts were tendered to Iggy because of his supposed high percentages and then you admit that those very same percentages I “don’t like” (which is virtually every percentage imaginable!) were not, in fact, high.

            But to try and wiggle out of this you blame it on some injuries to team mates?!?! Yes, his FT % was down because of injuries to team mates.

            Finally, you’re saying, quite bizarrely, that his team rankings are what counts instead. While you know that isn’t the case–nor what you meant–let’s pretend that they are:

            If Iggy’s percentages went down due to team mates injuries wouldn’t that serve to artificially inflate his team rankings?

          • Sorry, I meant to say for the last line:

            If Iggy’s team mates were injured for long stretches wouldn’t that serve to inflate his team rankings (i.e. for assists, rebounds, etc.)? Of course they would.

          • shooting pct. was the last item cited in my post, and to keep things succinct, did not specify it was one factor among others that can inflate bids on free agents. if you are, like myself, not really in the pro hoops personnel evaluation game, we can’t be sure what is most important in the minds of those teams. we have a different view, and your inclination to make it an issue of contention is a bit curious, perhaps related to memories of dental pain.

      • Yes Felt, that is how I felt.

      • But, do you think some team will buy this notion that Green is max.

        • Um, Detroit? He’d be a perfect fit there.

          • Drummond plus 4 shooters, like how SVG coached Howard’s magic team, yeah, that can work. But, Detroit can get cheaper options for the same and frankly I think Green will want to stay with warriors. He should be scared of he will be used with other teams. We have seen examples of Lance Stephenson who struggle in different environments. SVG will also be tougher sell for him compared to Kerr and staff.

          • BTW, after thinking for a while and sweating over Detroit and Draymond, I came to conclusion that SVG’s inexperience as GM means, Green will not be in Detroit next year.

        • most bidders will look at the easy numbers, but it only takes one who fancies him. the greater jackson will have a fat treasure chest, the premium free agents might not want to join his team at the bottom, and green provides about everything they need to regain relevance, not just defensively and competitively but practical stuff like screens, execution, and passing.

          • Dolan is not exactly going to sign a blank check despite what he has been saying as giving control to Phil. Detroit more of a possibility.

          • Moto,

            Agreed that this is not our specialization. I was simply pointing out you were incorrect. I was not trying to produce a “gotcha!” moment–but simply to correct your misperception. I wanted to be polite and hence the “sorry…” addendum. Your bizarre inability to admit you were wrong over such a trivial matter is quite odd, I must admit. Everyone who read your words knew your denial was total bs, which only serves to diminish you.

            You’ve done this before and I just wrote it off. But now I wonder what insecurities are driving this. I can assure you that your reputation is fine on this blog (NB: it’s only a freaking b-ball blog!!) and will remain so even if you didn’t remember Andre Iguodala’s stat line from 2 years ago. C’mon, your way better than this Moto!

      • Ha. Good point.

      • “This is not just about Draymond, this is personal.”

        I don’t get it. I’d love to hear why you think that.

        Regardless, Draymond would be GREAT for the Mavs, probably the only team in the West who would use him to full effect.

        He could make Detroit relevant overnight. I wonder if SVG listens to his brother.

        Nothing can salvage the Knicks, P. Jackson and Fisher are completely at a loss, but adding Draymond would more than double the entire organization’s bball smarts overnight. I don’t think Green would be happy there, though.

      • GooseLosGatos

        M. Jackson has a lot of friends around the league including his fellow broadcasters.

        He’s the ‘puppet master’ behind a lot of this including the ‘Stephan A. Smith’ ‘Bogus’ comments and other noteworthy broadcasters/journalists speaking out against various folks in the Warriors organization.

        • Possibly.

          OTOH, Stephen A. Smith is a lunatic.

          And Van Gundy’s pal M. Jackson always played Green <20 min./game. If it's so obvious that Draymond is a max player, isn't that a criticism of Jackson?

          • After his buddy MJ’s firing, his line started with “What do golden state warriors think of themselves….” blah, blah, blah.

            Joke on him, warriors were underachieving as we all and management suspected.

  26. I’ve had the misfortune of experiencing horrendous dental problems. So bad, in fact, that I wouldn’t wish them on anyone. (Actually, let me take that back; I wouldn’t mind seeing the appropriately named *Dick* Chaney strapped to a dental chair and undergo two unneeded apicoectomies by a sadistic dentist as I did. But I digress…)

    In any event, a wiser dentist, in explaining why I was experiencing so much pain, very gently tapped his forefinger once on my forearm and asked me if it hurt. He did it again and I agreed that I could barely feel anything.

    He then asked me how I thought it would feel if he tapped that same forefinger with the same gentle force in the same place over and over again…

  27. Dubs just laid their second Grade AA Certified organic egg of the year.

    It’s time for the same voices who screech about Harrison Barnes’ ability and point to the Ws 36-6 record as proof to wring their hands over Klay and Steph and ignore a 36-8 record

    • who had the primary assignment on heyward, barnes or thompson ?

      • Not to mention Ingles.

      • KT. St. Jean had too much scotch in him to realize it, but Hayward has been a two ever since Quin moved Ingles into the starting lineup.

        Hayward is a hell of a two-way player. And he’s taller than Klay, which had a major effect. Think this move to the two is going to earn him some recognition.

        A couple of weeks ago, I had a fantasy that Utah might take Barnes for Kanter. Don’t know what I was smoking.

        • LOL on St. jean.
          Speaking of a fantasy,my brother texting me verbatim during the game: “Gordon Heyward……Feeeeh”
          My response: “Love to trade for Harrison”

  28. ooo-tah:

    Somebody remind me how useful Bogut is on offense. Against a large team, his playing up top does nothing but stall the offense. No one will be able to cut against the large and mobile lane players for his passes. The screens he sets up take time. He can’t do anything to soften the front court up by taking the ball on the run and charging to the hoop. He can’t crash the boards for an offensive rebound for a putback or pass to restart the offense. And of course he can’t offer a shot.

    And we saw it all last season, that you can’t have Bogut and Barnes on the floor. They offer nothing or next to nothing, and there is no other offense, no options to open up, unless Green hits his 3s.

    You can’t say the guards had a bad night. Curry had a great night, and once again tried to bail out the team. Klay, in this system, against Utah, could only get 10 shots up.

    You can’t really say Utah had an uncharacteristically good shooting night. The Warriors’ inability to score kept them in the game, helped them build a lead, took the pressure off, and helped them get into an offensive rhythm.

    Then there’s the stall when Livingston runs the show.

    Instead of trying to fit players into this system, whatever it is, they need to build the system around the talents of the players. And tonight they needed to find offense elsewhere. Get Lee in an open court. Turn Barbosa loose. Maybe Holiday could get going. But after those, there just isn’t much.

    I don’t know what the deal is with Speights. His outside shot was one of their best assets the first half of the season. He doesn’t look good now, but he isn’t getting many shots, not since Lee returned. And if they’re going to have a chance in May, they may well need it.

  29. Twitter recap.

  30. Van Gundy is not praising Green
    in to cost Lacob money. Van Gundy
    a man of integrity.
    Are the Warriors struggling and
    weary due to playing at a super high
    pace ? Believe so.

    • Disagree with that assessment Frank. Perhaps you meant the man of integrity comment in jest. If so excuse my missing the subtlety. Have heard only a bit of JVGs commentary on Dubscasts but it seemed like he’s been pimpin’ JL for his old bud, lesser Jax, from the time he started with that “Draymond for the max” campaign. Will be interesting to see how the summer plays out and if they can salvage something from Felt’s Showcase project, perhaps a bag of rocks or a second round pick in 2027.

  31. Jazz looked onto the Bogut perimeter hand-off offense.

  32. Feltbot: “The Warriors won’t win a title unless Steve Kerr figures out that Curry-Lee is the best pick and roll combo in the NBA.”
    There’s some validity to this statement. But thats pimpin it pretty hard.

    ‘cuse my French.

  33. From what I could understand from St. Jean and Monti Poole, Bogut sometimes has fresh legs and sometimes old legs, depending on how he’s feeling. Sounded like a day-to-day thing.

    • same could be said for plenty of vets with high mileage and/or surgeries. visiting UT or Den has rarely had a rejuvenating effect on those legs with variable age, and there’s another game coming in about eighteen hours.

  34. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it—

    Everyone says that, and they point to the 36-6 record. But really we saw the same game last night as Chicago (who went on to lose 2 straight), our offense shut down by a large, defensive team. And it’s what they’ll see in the playoffs.

    To make that run several things had to happen:

    1. They got incredible breaks with key players missing from opponents, against bad teams, or teams who hadn’t come together yet, like Utah.

    2. They were able to build early leads, often because of fast breaks, which put teams on their heels and allowed the Warriors to get into a rhythm. This has to be the largest factor, and it will be tested against the better teams.

    They couldn’t up the tempo against Utah or Chicago, in large part because of defensive rebounding. Bogut only got a few, but against Utah’s size, they had to get more from the other players, who didn’t rebound well. Credit also Utah’s perimeter players, especially Hayward, 15. (Curry was the leading rebounder among the starters!)

    3. They got 50+ point performances from Klay and Steph, usually at high efficiency.

    They did get 43 last night, but largely because of Curry heroics 3rd. Q. They can’t count on that. Again, the problem was that the team couldn’t get Klay open for shots—only 10.

    And the general and main problem is that if opponents can shut down just one of the guards, the Warriors will struggle, which good defensive teams can do.

    4. They got adequate scoring from a handful of other players. But they didn’t get that last night, largely because of their limitations plus the defense.

    Barnes, everyone concedes, can only score when set up, but does so with efficiency for about 12 points per game. He cannot create for himself. And they couldn’t find many openings for him last night—only 6 shots.

    They did try to get Bogut scoring early in the season, on drives and some short range shots. This has dried up, but he’ll struggle against mobile size anyway.

    They got consistent scoring from Speights on the bench, 15-17 point efforts, and on a few occasions, phenomenal scoring that saved the team. I don’t know why, but he isn’t shooting much now, or maybe he’s just off or has had his run. But he hasn’t taken many outside shots since Lee returned. And, as a shooter, he has to get his shots to get into a rhythm.

    But no one else has put up numbers, except Barbosa and Holiday on occasion. Iguodala will probably need a better complement around him to score, and he’ll have to be in a lineup that makes use of his playmaking abilities.

    The problem last night wasn’t that they had to rely on outside shooting, but that they couldn’t get enough good looks for the right players, Klay especially, but also Barnes and I guess Speights. And they couldn’t find offense elsewhere, from other players, to tax the defense. They won’t be able to get backdoor cuts against such a lineup. They won’t be able to count on Green’s 3s, and will have trouble finding inside looks for him. And again, there just isn’t much left on the bench, unless Barbosa runs wild or Holiday hits a streak, but they need a PG and system to open them up.

    The problem was they couldn’t get up enough shots—86 vs 94 for Utah.

    They need someone who can score consistently, inside and out, in a system that opens him up.

    Calling David Lee.

    They probably would have done better had they started Speights if he had any kind of game, or gone to him early. At least he would have provided another offensive option and would have stretched the defense.

    Or they go to the lineup that was so effective last year: Lee, Green, Iguodala, Klay, and Steph.

    These lineups, this system will not take them to the promised land. Set our people free.

    • You also can’t say they are tired and run down from the grind of the season. All their opponents have played the same number of games, and they had several days rest before last night. They can’t only win when at a high pitch.

      • most of the teams have put in 46 -47 games, the woeyrs have logged 44. their toughest stretch on the schedule come right after the exhibition hiatus, and maintaining their place as the second best team in the association into mid-March would be a pretty fair sign they have sustaining power. [personally, giving them at best a .50 chance]. we’ll see how many of the top teams stick with their rosters between now and then, and of course all the teams have health and injury variables.

    • And here’s the killer comparison. I’m not sure the scheme we saw last night was any more effective than what we saw from MJax, except I liked MJax’s starting lineup better. Both coaches abuse Lee by posting him up. Barnes may, in fact, be more effective running is0s. At least he would get more shots up, though at lower efficiency, but he would tax the defense instead of passing off or standing in the corner. And maybe he would finally learn to create. I don’t know what MJax could have done with SL, either.

      Obviously I’m not calling for a return of the Preacher.

      • “Barnes may, in fact, be more effective running is0s.”

        No, rgg. Barnes himself says he’s bad at iso’s. He will not (did not) learn to create his own shot. He is now forbidden to dribble on offense, for good reasons. Two years’ worth of reasons.

        • Obviously when I say “more” I don’t mean very much. But keep going—they need another active scorer. And if he can’t—

      • this season’s version of iguodala isn’t quite the same as last season’s, so the same line up wouldn’t really be comparable. in that one position, the trade off is defense (the elder) for a bit more shooting and boards (das Wunderkind). what malone and erman to an extent succeeded in the preacher’s tenure was to give the defense an identity that was sustainable when the offense had its stagnant stretches. in part this was done by putting almost no priority on transition offense.

        ideally adams of course wants the defense similarly self reliant, but in their lacklustre games the woeyrs do appear to have their impotence on offense extend to the defense. my hunch, kerr will donkey around with the offense during the hiatus, and he could easily try ‘corrections’ (like more use of the endangered triple post) that have the opposite of his intended consequences. another option would be to give his wing defenders on the bench, iguodala and holiday, a bigger role, and we’ve seen hint of it.

        trade deadline falls in about three weeks. will they seek reinforcement defensively (insecurity over the health of bogut and ezeli) or with ball skills, or neither. footnote on their former defensive architect — erman was originally signed by Bos to become chief of scouting, but with adams’ departure westward, received a promotion to adams’ primary defensive assistant chair.

        • The lineup suggested by rgg is a finishing, not starting lineup. I suggest you both contemplate a third option at starting SF: Draymond Green.

          As I cogitate the most efficient solutions to Lacob’s cube, that configuration pops up frequently. At the current moment, Kerr is under-utilizing and misusing key assets, and overutilizing disposable liabilities. I sense stresses building.

          The trading deadline is a very key moment in the Warriors season for more reasons than moto mentions. That’s the moment the showcase ends.

          • Yes, of course. Finish with Green/Lee/Iggy/Klay/Steph. But I still see problems with the starting lineup as is, with Barnes and Bogut in, unless they sub out quickly if problems. They won’t be able to get the offense started and will be playing catchup. Getting off to a fast start is a large part of their success this season.

            So who at 4 and 5 if Green plays 3 with the starters?

          • lacob and marketing have succeeded in convincing most of the fans, including a few of our colleagues here, that barnes is part of the core of younger players in the team’s long term future, with green, curry, thompson of course. west defied lacob & son over trading thompson, but do you see anyone among lacob’s henchmen pushing myers to engineer a roster rebuild in part based on a barnes trade. shipping a vet as well of course expands the possibilities considerably. ‘t’would indicate they have little hope that their recent successes are sustainable into multiple playoff rounds.

          • Start with Bogut/Lee/Green/Thompson/Curry.

            2nd unit Iggy/Barbosa/Speights/Barnes/Holiday.

            I like it, FBot.

            Livingston trade bait for a 3-pt shooter.

          • Yes, like Hats units as well.

    • ‘our offense shut down by a large, defensive team. And it’s what they’ll see in the playoffs.’

      Not really, only Memphis that dubs can meet in playoffs matches that description. The chances are slim that dubs will face Chicago. Still, warriors have had a shooting slump or they would win both games. Don’t expect that happen over a series.

  35. Dwight Howard is now out with fluid buildup on his knee, so there’s confirmation of my explanation for how he looked against the Warriors.

  36. Should be an extremely interesting game tonight, on the heels of an extremely interesting (to me) game last night. Somewhat demanding of a recap. I will, however, be invoking the Super Bowl weekend excuse, sorry.

    You can catch my more spontaneous and unfiltered thoughts on twitter @feltbot. I will be live tweeting between sips of cold beverages.

  37. +1 Hat@35 Start Bogut, Lee, Dray, Klay, Curry. Move Barnes to stretch-four off the bench.

    Even the second unit might kill with this adjustment. Especially if you consider that Kerr is staggering Curry and Klay.

    So: Curry, Holiday, Iggy, Barnes, Speights.

    And: Barbosa/Livingston, Klay, Iggy, Barnes, Speights.

    This plays Barnes exclusively at his best position, stretch-four. Starts Green at his best position, SF, where he can be one of the best wing stoppers in the league, and save his body for fourth Q Nellieball. Fully utilizes Lee. Restores Nellieball to the second unit, to minimize the limitations of Livingston, Barnes and Speights, and maximize their talents.

    Lee and Green should of course slide up a spot to unleash Nellieball hell in crunchtime. I still want Green to get a lot of time at four – at the exact same time that all the other great SFs in the league – Lebron, Melo, Kawhi, Durant — move to the four.

    Killing Time.

    • +1. Yes Sir.

    • bloodsweatndonuts

      Can you elaborate on you’d envision the spacing working out? When Lee was posting up a lot, it just became crowded and he ended up having to beat his man and Bogut’s.

      Also, one of the offshoots of the current offensive system is that, as the ball moves around, Green and Barnes are often left wide open for threes. I’m just curious as to how you’d run the offense with that line-up because it would have to change.

  38. I am truly shocked that Felt is now calling for replacing Dray at the 4 with Lee and moving him to the 3.

    I NEVER saw this coming! Thank God he never denied this before!

    Wow!

    More anon….

    • I know! I’m just getting over the shock of Joel Grey coming out as gay, and now this?!?

      • Joel Gray is gay?

        I posted this before, but here goes again. NBAWowy quickly delivers points-per-possession on lineups, so I ran the numbers on combinations of Warriors bigs from last year. Here’s the raw data:

        Bogut/Lee/Green: 84 min.- ppp 1.240, opponent ppp .965
        Bogut/Lee, no Green: 1374 min. – ppp 1.083 opp ppp 1.003
        Lee/Green, no Bogut: 582 min. – ppp 1.147 opp ppp 1.012
        Bogut/Green, no Lee: 190 min. – ppp 1.108 opp ppp 1.003

        Per 100 possessions (the Ws average pace so far this season is 98.9), those lineups generate these point spreads, in order:

        Bogut/Lee/Green: + 27.5 point differential
        Lee/Green, no Bogut: + 13.5 differential
        Bogut/Green, no Lee: + 10.5 differential
        Bogut/Lee, no Green: + 8 pt. differential

        Let’s quibble some here. The Bogut/Lee/Green combo saw only 84 min. last year, so it’s not definitely representative of the potential for that lineup. They had a different coach with a different system last year. Bogut was still rounding into form last year; the eye test sez he’s more effective this season.

        And this season, Bogut/Green is awesome:

        Bogut/Green, no Lee: ppp 1.167 opp ppp .924

        In 100 possessions, that’s a point spread of + 20.3!

        Still.

        Last year, with a weaker offensive system (and a weaker Bogut, and a less-capable Green), in the few minutes they all played together, Bogut/Lee/Green completely tore up the floor.

        So before we all launch our long-winded snark-fests, check the numbers first. THEN explain to all us poor boobs why it’s a bad idea, if you can. Thanks!

      • Swopa,

        Was it you or FFG who called Moto out on a contention he made (about Kerr “faking it”) which he then he flatly denied using bizarre linguistic contortions, quotes from dead philosophers, and an “above the fray” call for us to recognize that interpretations are in the “eye of the beholder”?

        I had a similar experience recently and had an epiphany that, while the means of denial were quite different, he and Felt seemed to share a hope/expectation that their audience had collective amnesia–while they themselves seemed to forget that their stuff was in plain view in black and white?

        Which then made me wonder if Moto–and perhaps rgg–are simply Felt avatars cleverly presented with very different personalities? Highly unlikely but if so, rather genius I’d say…

  39. Phoenix:

    It’s the jerseys.

    You gotta wonder what kind of conversation Hunter Pence had with Joe Lacob.

    • bloodsweatndonuts

      Lacob: You know Hunter, I’m pretty much the smartest person in the history of intelligence. Since I’ve solved basketball, I’m now spending most of my time pleasuring myself to thoughts of me.

      Pence: Gurgle garble grunt .

  40. Been thinking about OKC. They’ve had miserable luck trying to keep Durant healthy, and are now behind the 8ball.

    Can they trade Waiters again this season? If they can, I would try to send a package of Reggie Jackson, Waiters and Perkins to the Nets for Brook Lopez (who they’re already trying for) and Deron Williams. Nets might do it (two young players with potential, Perkins expiring), and it could be a game changer.

  41. Was DLees defense really that bad tonight? Lauridsen critical of his performance — defense not up to the rest of the squad and lack of physicality and aggressiveness. Really? I thought he played pretty good.

    • Was Bogut’s defense that good last night? Barnes’? The team’s defense?

      The entertaining thing about your question is that no one will agree on the answers to these questions but will divide along party lines, the way political parties divide over “moral” issues, or used to. And no one will be able to point to concrete, convincing evidence. Defense by some is seen as upright and valiant, offense as sinful. They will praise a stout defensive effort in a loss, while downplay a win in a high scoring game.

      Often a play or two will stick in the judge’s head—a block, a blown rotation—and he will base his assessment on that. Sometimes these are meaningful, often they are not.

      You read the discussion about Barnes’ defense earlier here and know the discussion here will be a murk.

      I don’t think Bogut was that effective on defense, but Phoenix doesn’t have a dominant center for him to challenge and fast-paced teams like Phoenix with multiple attacks will put him at disadvantage. Yes he hustled and fell to the floor, but really didn’t do that much except rack up quick fouls. He looks like a dinosaur with a broken leg.

      Yes, the Warriors picked up its defense 2nd. quarter, but I don’t think that’s an accurate interpretation of their comeback. Rather, they were flat starting off and finally got offense and defense going and fed off that. Phoenix was hot starting off, but cooled off. They missed a lot of open looks. And they were the ones who looked flat the rest of the game. Their back-to-back, the drain of beating Chicago, took its toll. Fitz, of course, assumes that whenever the Warriors win and an opponent goes cold, it’s because of defense.

      I don’t know that Curry’s defense is that much better now. But no one wants to believe he is bad at anything. But if he is more effective, it’s because he’s playing with players, within a system that spreads defensive pressure across the board. He was horribly exposed with the weak perimeter and undersized front court his early years.

      What matters is the overall team effort and the final score. The most important thing to say about the Warriors is not that they are a better defensive team, but that (for the most part, with reservations) they have integrated offense and defense into a total system that produces wins. Lacob didn’t get this when he bought the team. He wanted them to be big and defense minded, no matter what.

      Adam, of course, has a problem with David Lee.

      • Continuing my thought, the most significant part of the Warriors total effort this season is their ability to strike first and fast, get into a rhythm, and put opponents on their heels. Offense and defense work together to produce +/– advantage. That will be challenged in the playoffs.

        If Phoenix were fresher last night it would have been an entirely different game, both ends of the court. Also they really aren’t that good. I wonder about what Bledsoe brings, whether he’s holding Dragic back.

  42. Feltbot in his own words (1/6/15):

    “Unfortunately, David Lee may no longer be David Lee. Like Iggy last year, he’s had a bad hamstring injury from which he may never totally recover this season. He has before this year had three essentially season-ending injuries in a row (even if his toughness didn’t allow him to quit). All of which were basically for the same thing, in the same area, and all of which required surgery to repair. It is a pipe dream to think that he is still in his prime, and possibly even to think he could ever play full-time and enter the playoffs healthy again. I voiced these concerns even before this latest injury, in the pre-season.

    So if injury is a concern for both Lee and the undersized Green, would it be better to move Lee back into the starting lineup to battle the behemoths of the West? You see the conundrum. *(Authors’ note: there is no “conundrum.”)

    There is also the fact that Green has now played a third of the season at the four, and played superbly, and the team around him. The team has acclimated to playing Nellieball with a stretch-four all game, every game. Sticking Lee back in at the four, and reverting to a more Lacobian old-school brand of basketball at this point, would make no sense. What makes sense is for the Warriors to run with what they’ve been doing.”

    And this gem directed at yours truly (1/6/15):

    “On another topic, I need to clear something up for those who are determined to misunderstand me. My opinion that Draymond’s true position is small forward does not mean that I want or expect him to be moved there this season. Nor does my opinion have anything to do with an agenda surrounding David Lee.”

    • Ref. #39.

      Say, LT, how about those numbers, huh?

      • Against all good judgement I will respond with the following:

        Anyone who argues that a team deploying a certain lineup over 41 games enjoying unprecedented, and nearly unfathomable, success needs to shake things up based on stats for a different lineup that played only 84 minutes together is, well….

        you said a “poor boob.” However, there’s a chance that this person is fairly well off, so I wouldn’t use “poor” in the description. As for “boob,” I’d say that’s rather an understatement.

        Also, did you get round to wiping off the purplish ochre globule on the tip of your nose.

        Finally, Felt: you never replied as to whether you had borscht or braised cabbage last week. Was it pickled beets by any chance?

        • Wow, what fun. After filtering out the sarcasm and put-downs, LT, it seems to me your comments are just blank space. Ya got nuttin.

          I thought Felt made a good case for the lineup change, strengthening both the 1st and second teams. Barnes is shooting well, and the 2nd unit needs another outside shooting threat. He’d also be playing at his best position, the 4.

          Running Lee+Speights together has played to the weaknesses of both, but Lee+Bogut has worked well – and there’s at least SOME evidence that adding Green to that mix wouldn’t hurt a thing. Rebounding, scoring, rim defense, wing defense, and the 2nd unit works better too.

          Do you have a problem with all that? OK. How, exactly?

          Please come up with something besides “check the record, bitch.” This is a bball discussion blog, not a forum for how you fear change.

          • Anyone who argues that a team deploying a certain lineup over 41 games enjoying unprecedented, and nearly unfathomable, success needs to shake things up based on stats for a different lineup that played only 84 minutes together is, well….

            ….(fill in the blank).

          • a) Just exactly how big a lineup change do you perceive it to be?

            b) Do you consider Bulls/Jazz better teams than the Ws? What could the Ws do to better handle teams built like them?

            c) The Ws 2nd unit is not hitting it. What would make them better? Can the Ws do something to improve the 2nd unit without harming the 1st team?

            d) For 10 years, David Lee has been Mr. 20-10 in the right system, including last year next to Bogut. Lee is not currently playing in the right system.

            e) Steve Kerr isn’t afraid to experiment. What makes you so scared?

          • And also, why the beef with me? You’re arguing AGAINST Felt in the quotes you replied to! I suggest you actually read what the man wrote….

  43. Felt predictions to look out for:

    “Is this something that will end with the return of Bogut and Ezeli (assuming their return is even sustainable)? Will the Warriors be forced back into the standard mold of two bigs on the second unit?” (01/6/15)

    No. I’ll bet my life on it.”

    On Harrison Barnes’ imminent trade:

    The trading deadline is a very key moment in the Warriors season for more reasons than moto mentions. That’s the moment the showcase ends. (1/31/15)

  44. Stupor Bowl Sunday. Glad I’m not near a TV today

  45. @38 bsnd

    That is the single best argument against making the change. The offense would be affected, and the system altered. I assume to something similar to how the Spurs play with both Splitter and Duncan. As for how it would affect the offense in gross terms, I refer you to the numbers posted above by Hat. Other than that I can only guess.

    We’re replacing Harrison Barnes with David Lee. We’re replacing an offensive role player with an offensive genius. We’re exchanging weaker defense at the four for stronger defense at the three. And we’re radically improving the rebounding.

    That’s the first unit. I think the second units might be better as well, as discussed above @38.

    The main concern I have with this change, as mentioned in previous posts, is Lee’s health, and the disruption of what’s been working all season long. For this reason I don’t know if Kerr will make it, and I’m not absolutely sure he should. But every time Bogut and Green get completely eaten up by a big front line, as they did again in Utah, the pressure to make a change will grow.

    And there are two other things going on right now that are undeniable. An all-star caliber player is being completely marginalized, by system and by minutes played. And the second unit is still struggling badly. It just occurs to me that the most efficient solution to Lacob’s cube would somehow incorporate a solution to those problems.

    • bloodsweatndonuts

      Thank you for the explanation. I also agree that it would be a very hard sell to disrupt what is clearly working most of the time. Plus most fans and SJ Merc gadflies would be predictably enraged.

      As a compromise, wouldn’t it make sense just to have two starting lineups? One with Lee for matching up with the Utahs and Memphises of the world and the current lineup against everyone else? I actually don’t understand why starting lineups are as static as they are considering the opponents are not static.

    • If ever there was a time to experiment, this is it. It’s easy to imagine their staying the course to win against weaker defensive teams, like Phoenix, only to be unprepared for the better. The questions about Lee’s and Bogut’s health also encourage experiment, just so they’ll be prepared.

      Why didn’t Speights play? Is he in the doghouse?

      • Bad matchup for him. Kerr went to Barnes at four on the second unit, and deserves credit. He’s a dynamic tactician.

        • When he’s not “under-utilizing and misusing key assets, and overutilizing disposable liabilities,” that is. ;-)

          • Yes, but please remember that Felt was against Kerr before he was for Kerr, before he was against Kerr, before he was for Kerr, before he was against Kerr, before he was for Kerr…oh well, you get the point.

            To use an analogy Felt is well familiar with, Feltbot’s modus operandi is like this: him standing beside a roulette wheel and shouting out numbers as the wheel spins: “46!” “23!” “8!” “16!” and then, just as the wheel is about to stop and it is obvious which number it will land on Felt shouts it out the winning number with great exuberance: “37!!” and then looks around with great satisfaction and pride at the bewildered and annoyed fellow gamblers and exclaims: “I knew it all along!”

          • I’ll give Feltbot credit for a little more subtlety than that… in this case, anyway.

            There’s nothing wrong with generally being extremely impressed with the job Kerr has done, but having some quibbles around the margins with his use of certain players. Unfortunately, for various reasons, Felt doesn’t tend to express himself with that kind of balance and nuance. So one day Kerr is a title-bound genius and champion of Nellieball, and the next he’s an unimaginative slave of the awful, anti-Nellieball triangle.

            The rhetorical inconsistency isn’t very helpful to the discussions here, but as I said, for various reasons, bombast is a core part of Feltbot’s act.

          • You are far too generous! Please see my list of Feltbot’s Greatest Tautologies (FGT) below. It’s far more than mere bombast; Felt’s staked out strong positions on myriad issues and then staked out strong positions contradicting all of those same positions. The man’s a genius as he’s never wrong!!

  46. Let me take a different approach:

    Is there anyone out there who does *not* think there’s a pressing need for the W’s to shake things up and alter 40% of their starting lineup?
    Or is this just an experiment to see how far groupthink can stretch the boundaries of sanity?

    Felt’s citing of the “purple nosed” Hat’s stats (84 whole minutes of data!; really sad….) notwithstanding, what of Felt’s claim that Lee’s chronic injuries and age foretold the likely near end of his career (re-cited generously by me above)?

    I know Felt’s licking his chops hoping for more “problems” so that he can argue more openly for his beloved David Lee to return to the starting lineup and his disgust for the “showcase” to be resolved through a demotion. But c’mon, this is ridiculous.

    Also, Felt all but guaranteed a Barnes trade (cough cough) in the coming three weeks so why the urgency to switch things now? In the highly unlikely event that Felt’s right for once, then a change would have to be made and if the incoming player were not suitable to slot in at the 3 or 4 then this proposed lineup might be a sensible move.

    Finally, unlike Felt I do make an effort to maintain at least some sense of consistency. So I want to put this out there yet again: I do like David Lee’s game and think he can be a very effective contributor going forward. I also think that the second unit has not jelled properly and some adjustments must be made so that his talents can be utilized more effectively. I also think that Lee would be much more effective on the 2nd unit than Barnes, who has trouble manufacturing his own offense.

    I also DO think that a Bogut-Lee-Green front court would be formidable (as would some other possible iterations). And it would be superior in certain instances than the current starting front court (just as some lineups with Green at the 5 would, for example). But the existing starting lineup has been such a smashing success that calls to shake things up nevertheless up are, well, rather idiotic…

    • “But the existing starting lineup has been such a smashing success that calls to shake things up nevertheless up are, well, rather idiotic…”

      Except, perhaps, when we play Utah and Chicago? How about against the Grizzlies? How about when San Antonio plays Splitter/Duncan/Diaw?

      Nobody here wants to hurt your team, dear heart.

      • Just to be clear…you’re not arguing that the Warriors should be 43-2, right?

        The broader discussion topic: To what extent should every team that beats GS at any time during the season be treated as having “the secret” to defeating the Warriors, to the extent that Kerr should change the starting lineup?

        If Kerr puts David Lee (and/or Iguodala) in the starting lineup on Tuesday and the W’s lose again before the season is over, should he change the lineup then, too?

        • That’s the right question. I really wonder where this nonsense of treating one game as the deciding factor while ignoring the other 40 comes from. Is it simply because their “leader” abuses this illogical approach so frequently? Is everyone on this blog taking soma?

          No one could possibly take this type of approach in their own professional lives for obvious reasons. But here it seems perfectly acceptable–even laudatory!

  47. Forgot to mention:

    Draymond had twice as many rebounds in last night’s game than DLee did in his last two games *combined*–why aren’t people jumping all over that meaningless stat like they usually do?

  48. Last night Harrison “The Showcase” Barnes: 8 rebounds

    Last *two* games combined David lee: 6 rebounds

    Where’s the outrage?

    • Lee’s not getting anywhere near his 10-year average in points and rebounds lately. Which only proves he’s being shackled with the wrong system.

      • Hat, I’ll respond to you even though I thought we had agreed to a mutual avoidance pact. I do find your dogged persistence and willingness to keep coming back for more oddly endearing. Speaking of dogged, if I were to choose the one you’d be it would be a golden retriever.

        (This reminds of when I was trying to impress a woman I knew and told her, “Sure, if all men are dogs then think of me as a golden retriever.” I thought the image of this most friendly of breeds would win her over. Instead, she scrunched up her face into a thoroughly disgusted look and said, “Eeeeeeewww! That’s disgusting–they’ll lick anyone!!”)

        In any event, I posted Lee’s bad rebounding numbers and you responded that this was due to his being “shackled by the wrong system.” Exactly what is this system and how precisely does this so negatively affect his rebounding numbers?

        P.S. The woman in the story above told me at the time that Bill Cosby had called her up several times and asked her to come over to his apartment in NYC. She thought it was odd and a bit creepy.

        • Great line from your paramour!

          Um. It’s true, sadly. I will lick anyone. I’m struggling with it.

          My favorite first-date line: “I never date men wearing camouflage. They have something to hide.”

          • She’s quite a wit. Surely put me in my place!

            P.S. Sorry to all readers for eliciting Hat’s “licking” response. Trying to get that “taste’ out of my mouth…

      • Or… perhaps maximizing David Lee isn’t the best way to maximize the team as a whole. There are a lot of moving parts to a team, and maximizing the roles of some is surely going to diminish the roles of others. Surely, even the vaunted Spurs likely have players that would be better on other teams, in other systems, just as they have players whose success relies on that Spurs system.

        We can quibble about David Lee’s importance, but with so many other players showing marked improvement within Kerr’s system, I’m not overly concerned with Lee.

        I agree with Felt that his best role is as a PnR center, and hopefully Kerr gets it right… but we were dominant without Lee. He’ll be essential for any title contention, sure, but his value is way overstated around these parts.

        • Until the team needs inside scoring, rebounds, and/or a PnR partner for Curry.

        • +1

          Well put–and better than I did. It’s rather complicated and Kerr, to his great credit, is willing to experiment. I would love to see Lee used optimally and the 2nd unit definitely needs his scoring and rebounding.

        • “There are a lot of moving parts to a team, and maximizing the roles of some is surely going to diminish the roles of others.”

          Exactly. Lee might improve his numbers but wouldn’t necessarily mean warriors will be better off with it. Green is the best PF for the team. I also agree with Felt on Green getting burnt covering bigger players. The solution probably be playing Green lesser minutes and keeping him fresh to close out the game. Moving Green to SF as a starter won’t help in this regard as that means he would be playing heavy mins splitting time at SF and PF.

          Start Green at PF, play Lee lot of minutes 2nd and 3rd quarter at PF, keep Green’s minutes to around 30 per game.

  49. Wow. I just saw the highlights of the Super Bowl. nice open field tackle by Pete Carroll on Beast Mode at the 1. I guess we’ll never know what Marshawn thinks of it all but I’d be a wee bit p.o’d if I was a Hawks fan. All that emotional investment over a season and…Kerplunk. There goes the dynasty.
    I did get to enjoy quite a few glib texts from 9er fans..

    I had a customer service phone job in my twenties. For some reason the majority of the calls came in from the East coast. And the people from Boston made New Yorkers seem seriously warm and cuddly. I got fed up with them and still remember my frustrations and just didn’t give a hoot about this one. Didn’t want either to win.

    You know, there were plenty of seasons past in which I would have been absolutely delighted with 37 wins. Not this one, of course. But its some perspective. I think that the Cavs will represent the EC in the Finals. I know its ez to say after 10 straight, but I felt like this 10 games ago after their trade for Mozgov, Shumpert, and JR and regret not voicing it then. But JR gave me cause to hesitate. Kyrie’s the key: is he mature enough to be the floor leader at PG that every champ requires? Obviously I hope the Dubs will be squaring off against them. GS has built a nice little cushion and can tinker a bit now. They’ve hit a lull recently but I’m surprised it hasn’t come earlier. They scuffled and still handled Phoe which was a good sign. There are many nBA teams that lay a whole case of eggs during the season.

    I thought oKC was a lock for the postseason . Theyre also scuffling but they have to be in. Unless Russell Westbrook really goes ADHD crazy. Glad we got steady ol’ Steph. I thought the Clips may be bumped but now I’m actually lookin at San Antonio as a potential casualty. If Tyson Chandler goes down Dallas is completely defenseless. Bare naked exposed like RGGs atractive ass pic. It all too close to call..

    Another unseasonally warm night in sF. With a mist shrouded Translyvanian moon.
    Shnighters.

    • Many native Bostonians can be very crochety and it’s the “coldest” major city in more ways than one. I think New Yorkers are actually quite friendly and helpful in comparison.

      Looking forward to the unseasonably warm weather in SF but the drought is an unfortunate byproduct of that.

  50. Felt and Hat,

    On starting line up change, not a good idea to change most successful starting line up in the league unless warranted by injuries. For me last year start 5 is 2nd best start 5 followed by your suggested lineup. For me, I don’t see anyway Green better than Iguodala at SF.

  51. McAdoo coming back on a second 10 day. I assume Cosmic Onion will again be the odd man out.

    My personal opinion is that in case of emergency, McAdoo would be a stronger option at center than Kuz. Better at everything except size.

    • there are six games within that contractual period. he’ll be done as a woeyr for the rest of the season unless they give him a guaranteed deal for the final months.

      prior to barbosa, holiday, mcadoo, myers and lacob haven’t been augmenting the roster or committing to developing players (like the picks used for kuzmic and NN, then importing them on n.b.a. contracts rather than sitting on the rights) for compatibility with the team’s coaching. partly as a result, kerr can’t really deploy the same system on offense with the reserves — the most obvious misfits being ezeli, kuzmic, livingston. there’s a positive side to the minimal contributions from the two bigs. meanwhile, opposing coaches are learning how to stress the team’s flaws, though the partisans will bring up the ‘dog days’ or ‘fatigue’ rationalizations. kerr and staff have to pass stiffer tests in the next three months if they want to extend their season far into May, but who can say if it will include new personnel.

  52. I’ve come to realize that Felt’s the King of Tautologies—an expert at talking out of both sides of the mouth. Tautologies are fool proof when it comes to predicting things; declaring that, “it will either rain today or it will not” is guaranteed to produce a correct result. Indeed, on this blog, the use of tautologies has proven to be rather fool proof. Indeed some, apparently ignorant of his use of this ploy, have marveled in awe at Felt’s predictive “powers.”

    I’ve only been contributing to this blog for the last 7 weeks or so. As one of my parting gifts to the community I thought I’d compile a list of Felt’s tautologies presented over this very short time span. Following is a list of Felt’s greatest tautologies, in my humble opinion. It’s not an exhaustive list by any means as Felt’s positions have careened wildly back and forth across the spectrum of possibilities. Please do take care to understand that for each of these Felt has taken nearly—if not exactly—the opposite stance. He sure knows how to cover his bases!

    Here’s my “Lucky 13” in no particular order:

    1) Draymond Green needs to stay in place as the starting 4 given the team’s great success with him there.

    2) The Feltbot Defensive Snapshot (FDS) is simply a joke and should not be taken seriously.

    3) Feltbot has no interest whatsoever in pushing for David Lee to replace Draymond as the starting 4.

    4) Steve Kerr is a master tactician whose basketball decisions Felt trusts implicitly and will not question.

    5) David Lee is in some respects a superior defender.

    6) Steve Kerr is a total pushover whose decision making powers in the organization are nearly nil as he will take virtually all his instructions from Joe Lacob.

    7) David Lee, sadly, is in the twilight of his career due to chronic injuries and can only be used sparingly as a result.

    8) Harrison Barnes actually works quite well as the starting 3 for a variety of reasons and should maintain his starting role.

    9) Andre Iguodala needs to be dumped.

    10) Draymond Green can be absolutely inadequate—and at times horrible—defending the post and gets destroyed by opposing “monsters.”

    11) One stat line for one player in one game is sufficient evidence to argue for making significant changes.

    12) The Warriors, under Kerr, are playing “Nellieball” (sic)—and their great success is due to employing almost precisely the same style as Don Nelson’s small ball teams.

    13) Advanced statistics are vastly overrated and anyone who uses them to any great degree should not be taken seriously.

    Now Felt has accused me of “misreading” him before, an accusation I took seriously and answered on a point by point basis. I do think it’s not acceptable to knowingly do this so please let me know which of the above are inaccurately presented. I’m rather confident I can cite chapter and verse where he’s made each of the above claims and then elsewhere explicitly—or tacitly—taken the opposite position. Scour the archives as he’s implored us to do elsewhere if you don’t believe me. Finally, these were produced quickly off of the top of my head so there are certainly more such gems. Please feel free to suggest your own!

    • Hey LT, how about expressing your own ideas instead of Felts, moto, etc. Is your concept to keep the status quo? If so, that’s OK, just say so.

    • I wonder, given the two responses I’ve received, whether anyone understands what I was doing here. Each of these 13 claims were made by Felt over the last two months and doing this time he actually made the opposite claim for each and every one of them as well. These are not my opinions (although I do agree with some of them for sure).

      Through cataloging the consistent use of these tautologies I am expressing my “opinion” by asking readers to think about the fact that they are so consistently and frequently produced–and what implications this might have for trusting the opinions of the individual who produced them. That’s all. If you don’t have any interest in this, there’s no need to even consider it further.

      • Actually, like your ideas, no problem here. And good to have a variety of views. Didn’t mean to censure you or anyone else, though seems that way as I re-read my previous response.

  53. As a coda, I’d like to point out four positions that Felt has resolutely—and with unwavering fervor—maintained:

    1) That Harrison Barnes was inserted into the starting lineup in order to “showcase” him for a trade. This trade will take place by the end of this season’s trading deadline.

    2) That Draymond Green is injury prone.

    3) That Draymond Green (and his agent) will insist on his playing—and starting—at the 3, just like LeBron James.

    4) That Joe Lacob essentially calls all the shots. (Please note that following this logic, Felt is contending that any and all success the Warriors experience this season ultimately should be attributed to Joe Lacob. Does anyone see the irony in this?)

  54. longtimer, i.i.r.c. from slogging through your texts, you’ve been, perhaps still are, a college instructor. were your subjects in the hard sciences, or maybe related to accounting and finance. just my subjective impression, not an accusation, that you like things resolved in a binary mode, or fit nicely in a grid defined by straight lines and right angles.

    just to cite one ‘advanced stat’ method that was popularized on espn (partnered with nba.com), is the Hollinger (currently in the Mem front office) stuff. many of the advanced stat systems, his included, don’t make it clear how they weight the variables, making some numbers shift the result considerably more than others. Hollinger’s system favors high usage shooters and high visibility numbers like boards. must be just a coincidence that his former employer espn and the d.stern marketing era of the association heavily relied on players who fit the favored profile.

    no problema if you see the guv’s defensive snapshot (he pretty clearly stated it was most appropriately applied to wings) as a joke, but at least it’s transparent compared to some of the advanced stat systems which have embedded agendas.

    • Moto–

      Glad to hear from you. Thank you for “slogging” through my posts. I’ve done many things but I can assure you I’ve never been a college instructor–nor a hard science/finance/accounting guy (although when I was young my clear strength was in maths). How was my parody/send up in any way indicative of an accountant, by the way?

      I don’t like simple binary logics applied to complex human social behaviors–such as the performance of a basketball team. But I do like the application of at least a basic level of logic and consistency; that’s all.

      I’ve made my points about “advanced” stats and their misapplication by those who clearly don’t understand how they should be used. Take a listen to Kevin Arnovitz’ interview with Tim Roye. He’s and advanced stats evangelist and even he only looks for patterns and other indications that arise out of these statistical formulations and then uses them to look for things with his own eye and analytical prowess.

      We’re still in the very earliest stages of creating and understanding these “advanced” stats and they will only get better–along with (some) people’s ability to deploy them properly.

      Felt’s citing of 84 minutes of +/- for a particular lineup revealed that he simply doesn’t understand their limitations–or he’s being highly disingenuous.

      Also, in your slogging, please be careful to attribute what was said to the correct person. I was citing *Feltbot’s* own claim that the FDS was simply a joke. Those were Feltbot’s tautologies, not mine!

      • when you enjoyed an extended residence in Java, did you have a professional occupation, and am curious what it might be.

        my speculation over how iguodala got great offers after his contract year in Den seemed to fall outside your grid, and you charged me with being in denial or intellectual dishonesty ; must plead no lo contendere, with my obvious lack of perspective and objectivity. will offer this, if iguodala was perceived by the execs as a defensive specialist wing, those offers (Den to re-sign, Sac, Dal, GS) simply don’t reach the level they did. b.bowen, eight seasons either all n.b.a. defensive first or second team, peak salaries from 3.5 to 4.2 m.; t.allen, recently signed to 4 yrs./20 m.(<.5o of iguodala's offers or current deal), while previously earning minimum to about 3.2 m.

        • Moto,

          I appreciate your curiosity. In Java, I was, in no particular order: a language student; English teacher; post-college travelling bum; and low-level worker on development projects (e.g. public health and economic empowerment for the poor–mostly rice farmers). You never answered my question about your profession….Pray tell?

          Glad to hear you weren’t overly offended by our little testy exchange. I’d rather not revisit it because I think I was misunderstood–as do you, I’m sure. No need to bother others with this. No harm no foul?

          As for Iguodala’s attraction above and beyond the defense I think it was the perception of him being an all around “glue guy”–someone who could do all things at least partially well. His “gloss” was surely burnished by being an Olympian as well. Finally, his performance against the W’s in the playoffs was quite strong; he seemed to be the only Nugget playing at or above his natural capacity.

          He certainly looked to be an ideal addition to the Warriors and, while I didn’t like what the W’s gave up for him, was optimistic about the acquisition at first. Moreover, the first 10 or so games of the season were especially encouraging. And then his game really fell apart and hasn’t been able to recover since (although I saw brief glimpses of it this preseason).

          I’ve been trying to piece together whether my initial positive perceptions were off base–or not. He shot nearly 44% from the 3 those first ten games and the W’s were running more–and winning with large margins–so this could have distorted my perception. But ever since he was a shadow of what i thought I saw.

          George Karl was interviewed 2/3 of the way through the season and he said he really liked Iguodala’s game but was completely perplexed that he’d watch the W’s and not even notice his presence in the game. He thought that was very strange and couldn’t understand it. I watched and agreed with this observation.

          This year, for better or worse, I’ve noticed him more. But his offensive instincts can be maddeningly novice-like at times. Everyone’s praising of his preternatural intelligence seems to be belied by this and I find that truly confusing. I also think that his passion is not completely with the game right now and have several reasons for believing this. I do think he plays hard when in the game but wonder if he’s making all of the efforts off the court to continue developing his game.

          I’m still willing to keep an open mind about him but am unlikely to ever reach the point where I think he was worth the 5 picks and 48m in compensation.

          i’d appreciate your and others’ thoughts on this…

    • I do object to your characterization of college instructors, mr. moto, though I’m sure no harm was intended. Unfortunately, the characterization is too accurate for too many of them.

      • my partial and no doubt inaccurate impression of your career as a college instructor, rgg, you were a dedicated and inspiring teacher but your administrators might have had other priorities and you’re no longer in the profession ? my comments weren’t clear, but instructors in hard sciences or accounting/finance appropriately fix binary criteria or straight line grids on the results they seek — literature and writing teachers follow rather different muses. my own education was heavily weighted toward the humanities, so no surprise (or offense taken) if swopa or longtimer see fuzzyheadedness or equivocation, dishonesty und so weiter.

    • moto, good point about linear thinking and ensuing debate there from. I am an engineer, excellent mathematician in previous years, and I can very well relate to your response and perhaps LT and others can as well.

      The Jefe Felt, on the other hand, is a non-linear thinker/experiencer. He is a writer, poker player (is some intuition involved there?), and enjoys poetry (Meschery).

      For me, I some how follow his writings as an understandable body of work. It just makes sense to me.

      Of course, my agreement with many of his expressions prejudice my understanding. To enlighten my understanding further, LT and others are a positive input.

      • Thanks for the kind words and willingness/ability to overlook my, at times, irascible persona. Just trying to learn, raise the level of analysis, and have fun…

      • Also, good to hear that you’re thinking about your own biases/preferences. We all need to continually monitor this.

        I just learned that according to Felt’s home page he’s been a lawyer and now works in finance and is a professional gambler. None of those are among the most highly esteemed fields at present so we must appreciate his honest disclosure–if it is, indeed, true.

  55. Funny and informative by Blake Griffin:
    http://www.theplayerstribune.com/why-aint-he-dunkin/

    The second flaw he mentions is the one I’ve harped on with Barnes’ stroke. The reason he misses free throws, and lacks touch on midrange shots.

    • Wonderful article.

      As a side issue, I wonder if Bazemore is still Bazemoring in Atlanta. It’s not really their team style.

    • Good one. As Blake can improve, so can Barnes. Hopefully, he will work as hard in the summer as Blake has been seemingly doing. Barnes did seem like put in work as we can see it from his rebounding and 3PT shot.

  56. I like the current starting line-up especially with Curry,
    Thompson, and Green also shooting above an eFG percentage
    of 56 percent. Lee should remain coming off the bench as
    he provides stability. And it should be noted that Green’s
    defense is similar to Barnes playing against SF’s.

    I agree with LT that Felty has consistently changed positions
    without acknowledging he has done so. Not sure he’s aware
    he’s dong so. Seems to fake left,go right, then go right and fakes
    left.

    But I do think LT that sometimes when you give your own
    views that lack any statistically support. As you claim that
    Iggy si the fourth best defender, when stats from 82 games
    shows he’s better than then Thompson defending SG and SG’s
    as SG’s shoot 36 percent against Iggy, 46 percent against
    Thompson. Sf’s shoot 42 percent against Iggy and 46 percent
    against Thompson. We see the same disparity when compared
    to Green as SF’s shoot 42 percent against Iggy, and 46 percent
    against Green. PF’s shoot 37 percent against Iggy and 53 pecent
    against Green. SG;s’s shoot 36 percent against Iggy and a 49 percent
    against Green.

    There is no reason to compare Iggy against Bogut as they play
    two different but it should be noted that Iggy defends PF better
    than Bogut defends centers and surely provides better weakside
    defense than Bogut does.

    I also disagree with both you and Felty that Iggy didn’t take a
    shot a few games ago because he didn’t want to go foul line. He
    had to make a very quick decision and no one other than Iggy
    know what he was thinking. Morever he shoot 51 percent from
    foul line so why wouldn’t he want to go to the foul line. But more
    significant in his last game and in other games he has taken the
    ball to the hoop late in the fourth quarter obviously not being
    afraid to be fouled and go to the foul line.

    Sorry about your dental problems. Worse pain a person can
    endure. I agree to stop go tat for tat regarding Iggy as we agree
    to disagree.

  57. Phil Helmuth says Bogut is a ‘professional level’ poker player?
    http://www.csnbayarea.com/warriors/hellmuth-bogut-professional-level-poker-player
    Wonder how much he stands to make by luring Bogut back to the tables with such high praise. Felt: If there is really a poker room where David Lee, Steph Curry Klay Thompson and Bogut are regulars, I have to imagine you’ve found it by now. Since Helmuth let the cat out of the bag, wanna tell some stories?

    • David Lee has occasionally played at Lucky Chances casino in the no-limit game there. Bogut doesn’t play locally, but has been known to drop into the cardrooms in Sacramento when the Warriors have a Kings game, and insult the players who bust him by saying, as he walks out the door, “You need it more than I do.”

      Hellmuth plays regularly in a $25-50 home game with Silicon Valley movers, which is where I assume he plays with his friends Lee and Bogut. I assume the line about a local casino was either a misquote, or Hellmuth fibbing to avoid putting his home game on the radar.

      Hellmuth is forbidden from playing in the public card rooms in the Bay Area by his wife. We tore him to pieces. He is a huge fish and massive tilter, who has dropped a fortune in cash games.

      • Here’s a few Hellmuth stories:

        I know him quite well, basically from right when he started on the tournament circuit. We played a ton together years ago, in cash games and in tournaments. We used to hang out quite a bit together too with a good friend of mine, Huck Seed. Huck is an amazing character himself, and a legendary prop bettor.

        Here’s a quick story of a Huck prop bet. He bet Doyle Brunson and a number of other legendary hustlers six figures that he could break 90 on a 7200 yard golf course in Las Vegas, three times in one day, while walking the course, in mid-summer. He set out in the early morning carrying 6 clubs in his hand, being followed around the course in golf carts by everyone who had action. On the first round, he shot 90, which didn’t qualify. On the second and third rounds, he broke 90. But by now it was getting dark. So on his last attempt, he played the course at a dead run. And broke 90 again, winning the bet.

        Here’s another Huck story involving Phil. Huck was living down on Balboa Island (in a place I got him by paying $20k rent in advance — the landlord didn’t like the look of him), and Phil and I were at his place. Huck was playing in a $400-800 half holdem/half lowball game at the time, and had been winning $20k a day for the last two months. He was exhausted and burnt out, and told Phil and me that he was going to take a month off. Phil and I both bet him $10k on the spot that he couldn’t take a week off from a game he was crushing so badly. He settled with us the very next day, for $5k apiece.

        Later that same trip, Phil and I both made the final table of a limit holdem tournament at the Bike. I didn’t want to drive down to Newport that night and then drive back the next day, so I stayed with Phil in his hotel room across the street. We turned the lights out, and got into our respective beds. I was exhausted, but just as I closed my eyes, Phil started to talk. He was saying, “Dave, I’m the best poker player in the world. When I play my A game, nobody can touch me. I’m going to win this tournament tomorrow, and I’m going to win $5 million this year….” And he kept saying this, over and over, with almost no variation, for over an hour. I didn’t say a word, not one single word, just stared in the dark towards the ceiling praying for it to end. Finally, after over an hour, he said this, and I quote verbatim: “Dave, you’re going to have to let me sleep now, I have a tournament to win tomorrow.”

        One more Phil story: I was playing 80-160 limit holdem at the Bay 101 with Barry Greenstein and some others, when Phil walked in and took a seat. He immediately started talking about himself, of course, and what he told us was that he was a changed man. He had just come back from a week at Big Sur, where he had undergone intense training in Zen Buddhism. He was absolutely sure that nothing at the poker table could ever upset him again.

        Well, we immediately set about taking his money, because he’s a huge fish. And of course, he started getting redder and redder. Finally, one of the non-professionals at the table beat him out of a big pot, and he snapped. He shouted: “That was terrible! You have absolutely no idea how to play poker! Do you even know who I am?!!!!!” He then got up and stormed out.

        But just as he got to the door, Barry called out to him: “Hey, Phil!” Phil turned back to look. Barry put his palms together, and said: “Ommmmmm.”

        • A sincere thank you, Dave. May god bless you and your next hand.

        • wonderful prop bet story. when the bettor is wagering on himself, who knows better, in this instance his capacity to play under heat endurance conditions, which let him turn the perceived negative (midsummer) into a positive (daylight duration). the tennis savant b.riggs made a very good living betting on himself [one of his contemporaries, in the top u.s. players with riggs in the 40’s was the local elder sage of the courts in my former recreational tennis days, and occasional broke out with a riggs impersonation].

          • realised that some folks here could be unfamiliar w. riggs — one of his variations of the prop bet was to wager he could beat wealthy guys at fancy clubs who thought they were pretty good, while equipped with a broom instead of a racquet.

          • Still awaiting your response….

        • Thanks Feltbot, you paint quite the picture.

          I just watched the movie Rounders for the first time, after having it on my list for years and years. Naturally it got me thinking about this blog’s author, Bogut and other denizens of that world.

          So which are you, Feltbot – Knish? You don’t seem reserved enough. Mike Mc? Were you once a tentative amateur like him? Worm? I can’t see you pulling his tricks.

          Or maybe you’ll tell me the movie’s a disgrace, and recommend some better ones.

        • Thanks Felt. Funny stuff. I’ve always thought Greenstein looks like he’s got a very dry sense of humor when I’ve seen him on TV and it greatly amuses me to hear that the Phil Helmuth show plays the same way off camera as on.

    • Must be a Kings game tonight. Jaron Collins is playing poker in the Capitol Casino as I type.

    • People who don’t build teams (in any field) don’t get this:

      “I love coming in here every day and being here and knowing we’re all building something together and we’re all on the same page.

      People love working together here. That’s what’s rewarding… But the fun part is the ride. We’re having fun.”

      Great teamwork is rewarding. Success is just a side-effect. The fun part is in getting there.

  58. Was driving today, and caught the great Greg Papa provide a vociferous defense of the Seahawk’s playcall that gave away the Superbowl. I agree with Papa that the call was absolutely correct from a time management perspective — the fault lay in the execution. First the receiver who as Papa explained had the responsibility to push downfield and thus pick off not just one, but both corners. And also Russell Wilson, who as Jim Plunkett joined to say, simply shouldn’t have thrown the pass when he saw the assignment was missed and the corner coming. And made a bad pass leading the receiver when it should have been into his body.

    Papa also made the point that the play is very effective, and that 99.9% of the time when the play is broken up it simply results in an incompletion. It had to be totally botched to result in an interception.

    But I think Papa did a very bad job explaining the time management point. I’m not even sure he understood it completely, just knew that it was standard in the NFL to throw on second down there.

    Here’s the deal: The Seahawks had plenty of ways to get three full plays off there. But only by running 20 seconds off the clock and then throwing on second down could they set up the perfect third down play: Run the ball, and if not successful let the clock run all the way down to 1 second before calling timeout. That means the game ends on the fourth down play no matter what, giving the Pats no chance to get the ball back.

  59. Seattle should not have been
    concerned about time management.
    Every play subject to a penalty or
    something going wrong like Wilson
    Not seeing cornerback. Get ball into
    end zone as quick as possible. Lynch
    launched himself at of cannon the
    play before. . Surely would have
    scored on second or third down.
    Can’t believe Papa defending Seattle
    after what occurred. Because of the
    Bone headed play they lost the Super
    Bowl.

  60. Atlanta’s win streak ends. They got waxed by New Orleans.

  61. One of my best friends, the former head of global macro trading at JP Morgan, is now blogging about his global trading strategies, in real time, for free. He’s working on a book, and this is part of his media strategy.

    If you have an even passing interest in how commodities, currencies, interest rates and equities trade globally, I highly recommend reading him. If your interest is stronger than that, I’ll just put it out there that you could have made a lot of money by following him over the years. Don’t be thrown by the fact that English is his second language. He’s a brilliant strategist… except when playing me in board games.

    http://alexgurevich.tumblr.com

    You can also follow him on twitter @agurevich23

    • I should also mention that all political opinions are his, and his alone. My endorsement does not extend that far into the stratosphere…

    • He appears to be a short-term trader, which is really the only way to make $$ in the markets, if you know what you’re doing, unless you have the nerve to hold onto long-term positions in a bear market, which many “investors” sell near to or at the bottom, and are still young enough to buy & hold with several market cycles ahead.

      I’m a lousy gambler and trader, which I gave up many years ago. Got lucky in real estate.

      • He’s actually a long term trader and investor, with a focus on fundamentals, not technicals. Some of his currency and bond trades last for many years, and none are short term.

        He’s been short the yen for the last several years. A quick glance at the chart will tell you how that’s gone.

        He’s been long bonds (against 99% of the world’s traders) for a similar time period, with similar results.

        Right now he’s still long bonds, scaling out of short yen, and adding to short euro (or possibly swiss franc as a proxy).

        His long stock positions are frequently contrarian, as a recent position in IBM indicates (I hate this one, but wouldn’t bet against Alex’s track record).

        • For one short period in my life trading had me fascinated. I had two online accounts, with Datek and Suretrade(not sure if theyre still around). It was pretty much straight up gambling, and I dove in head first. It was cerca 1999 and my co-worker got me me very hyped on the tech market. It was a classic case of getting in on the cusp of the first real tech wave, and even a greedy novice like myself could could and should have doubled or tripled their $, when companies like Amazon, AOL, Excite, Cisco, Eggheads.com and Qwest were in their infancy. Most of my stocks were on nasdaq and I had all the right picks- i held all of the previously mentioned companies, and Nasdaq went from 2200 when I entered to briefly over 5000 about ayear and half later.

          Due to bad advice, short term dealing, very speculative day-trading, and just plain gambling I ended up with my two final holdings, EToys(I thought they’d shoot sky high running up to Xmas, like the previous year), and Viatel (laying a transatlantic fiber optic cable network), both going kaput. Down to absolute zero. And my initial 30K investment evaporated. I could have picked hundreds of stocks while blind folded off the Nasdaq index and done much, much better.

          I don’t like recalling how badly i botched it. And my interest in the market, like my $, has never returned!

  62. Basketball, bloggin’, and teachin’ English (moto @55):

    One assignment I give in all my classes, perhaps of relevance here, is that I have students write an extended summary of an article they’ve read, one that is neutral, accessible, informative, and mildly analytical. The results are a revelation and more often than not numbing.

    From Mike Rose, one of the few people in the field I respect:

    “I couldn’t imagine a more crucial skill than summarizing: we can’t manage information, make crisp connections, or rebut arguments without it. The great syntheses and refutations are built on it.”

    As in basketball, the itch to quantify has infected the humanities for the past decades, my field included, to their detriment.

    • thank you rgg. while a grad student one of my jobs to pay for food and rent was paid research, which included plenty of distilled summarization.

      • Moto,

        rgg and I have both responded to your requests but you haven’t yet reciprocated. What field did you go to graduate school for? What general line of work are/were you in?

        • grad school — east asian studies. never established regular employment in academia or related fields. have been a civil servant in social work. retail bidness, mainly food and beverage, including gourmet goods and a worker owned cooperative [this got me removed from jury service once by the defendant in a work related civil suit]. emergency and trauma unit in a large inner city hospital complex. [‘campus’ is now commonly used in reference to these virtual estates. they combine so many big $$ enterprises, not all of them dedicated to patient care of course, that employment in one can certainly be an education]. presently retired from paid employment and work as a homemaker. none of this qualifies me in any way of course as a hoops analyst, which serves me well as far as provoking many who consider themselves my betters in most social index categories including hoops expertise.

          what type of assistance were you extending the rice farmers in Java ? the rice cultivation in Sulawesi, as you know a bit north and east in the archipelago, is among the most sophisticated (non mechanized on steep mountain terraces) anywhere. since tasting the local rices there, Indonesian rice has been a regular part of our diet.

          there will be non licensed video streams of the Atl game on the web if you are desperate. the live radio broadcast might be on the web as well. not long after every game, there are extended video highlights from various sources on youtube and elsewhere.

          • Muchas gracias for all that. Certainly more than I had asked for so I appreciate your generosity. Working in so many disparate fields is one hell of an education for sure! I was in the F&B industry during and after college, but only as a waiter. I can tell you I learned a great deal about sales, marketing, and interpersonal relations from this work, even though I never expected it to be permanent nor was it something I realized was providing me an education at the time. That goes for the many other fields I worked in.

            I was mainly involved in the micro-lending side of things in my dealings with the rice farmers. Sulawesi does have some very steep terraces–but so does Bali and Java as well. I do love rice after spending all my time in Asia but it, in combination with my taste for fine beer, is a devastating combo for anyone trying to fit into the same trousers, if you know what I mean. There are differing grades and styles of rice that are available there and which are difficult to find elsewhere.

            Speaking of fine micro-brews, I will be catching the latter half of SF Beer week. I hope other Feltbotians take advantage of the many offerings. The Celebrator final party on the 15th at the Trumer Brewery on the 15th in Berkeley is well worth it for those that can cough up $60 for 4 hours of beer drinking.

            Too bad the game of the year so far is not being televised nationally.

            Where might I find the non-licensed video streams?

          • there’s a rice importer in the bay area that focuses on heirloom varieties from south Asia — what they market as ‘volcano rice’ is a blend of organic red and brown rices, listed origin ‘Indonesia’, nearly identical to what was on my plate in a cafe a short stroll away from incredible terrace paddies in Sulawesi. the varieties are likely interplanted with no need or demand for separating at harvest, everything else related to cultivation already labor intensive as you know.

  63. Does anyone know if there’s a chance that ESPN will switch off of their scheduled coverage of the Clips-Raptors and show the only important game (GSW v. Hawks)? I’m still in the freezing east coast and don’t make it back west til next week.

    I’m worried that there’s no chance because the game in Toronto begins at 7 rather than 7:30 (Dubs game) and is the first game of a double header. Also, it doesn’t look like NBA TV is doing a national game that night. Do they ever choose to add big games like this?

    Thanks….

    • heard ballstream dot com is a good site for online streaming. I never used it though.

    • Other thing you can do is have your friends from bay area share their online login credentials, so you can stream online while they watch on TV. XFinity and Uverse has this option if you are their subscriber.

    • You can also check the nba subreddit on reddit. They always post game threads with free live streams before every game.

  64. Man, between Fitz’s whiny cheerleading and that dork in the fast food wagon, I don’t know if I’m going to be able to make it through the season. This is a sharp, exciting team, with personalities. Why can’t they give us an ad campaign to match? I’m sure they’re spending big bucks.

    The ad agency for the Dub Tales series is MUH-TAY-ZIK | HOF-FER, and they have rules, the first three below:

    1 First, do no harm.
    2 If everyone gets out of the box, get back in.
    3 Make the world 0.000001 percent more beautiful with everything you do.

    http://mtzhf.com

    They elevate the players yet at the same time eviscerate them. HB appears like a neutered Apollo. Meanwhile, fans are awestruck and docile, sometimes quirky, in their submission. The soft, sanitized campaign reminds me of ads for toilet paper or those pastel pills to ease depression.

    I watch sports to get an edge, not have it whacked off.

  65. Here’s an ad with edge, on youknowwho’s return to Minnesota with Cleveland:

  66. Didn’t get a chance to watch the Kings game.

    • Another easy GS win. Sacramento now 6-17 since firing Malone as coach. But heaven forbid anyone suggest Vivek is in over his head as owner. ;-)

      (P.S. Vivek is in way, way, way over his head. But at least Mullin & D’Alessandro managed to dupe him into letting them steal his money for another year or so before getting canned themselves.)

    • One week after FB suggests Bogut/Lee/Green, the Ws use it to break open the game. Green was quickly replaced by Iguodala, who continued Draymond’s excellent work.

      http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20150203&game=GSWSAC

      • Not sure of the exact timing on that one. Lots more Bogut/Lee/Iggy than Draymond. Just noticed Bogut/Lee playing together for the first time in many a moon, and putting in that front line was the exact moment the Ws took over the game.

        • If you re-check the gameflow in your link (and/or the nba.com play-by-play), you’ll see that Lee subbed in for Green, and vice versa — they never played together.

        • Bogut, Lee, Curry, Barbosa and Iguodala, this was the line up that worked best for warriors yesterday. Put Klay for Barbosa, that would be last year’s best starting 5.

        • To your question

          “Bogut/Lee/Iggy.

          Um, is that a lot different from Bogut/Lee/Green?”

          Iggy pushes the ball much faster and he had springs his legs yesterday. Curry as good as he is, seems to relish playing with Iggy even more.

          • Don’t have any stats on it, but I don’t think Iggy does push the ball faster than Green. When Green gets a rebound and keeps the ball, he’s often the first one down court.

            In terms of what those 2 guys deliver @ the 3 with the starters, I think they’re more or less interchangeable. Willing to be proven wrong, but that’s how these eyes see it.

      • Is there any doubt Green is the Warriors best 3? (Leaving aside the 4 position.)

  67. Felt,

    Over the past few seasons you’ve lamented Bogut’s presence in the lane as a barrier to Lee’s success operating there, as Bogut’s man was frequently in a good position to contest DLee’s shot. Are you no longer concerned with this?

    • Good point, and yes, I still am.

      But:
      1) Under last year’s system it was more of a concern, because the Warriors were running Curry-Lee PNR with Bogut stinking up the lane. This season, Kerr has moved Bogut to the high post, which opens the lane a bit.

      Also, when PNR is played, it’s played with Bogut/Curry, as it should be. And Kerr is FORCING Bogut to roll by having every bench coach scream “ROLL!” at him (I just noticed this in the last game). Lee can space effectively out to 18 feet.

      2) Even with the screwed up spacing last year, the Warriors were the best starting five in the NBA by plus/minus. I have little doubt that would still be true this year, in a better system, with Green substituted for Iggy at SF.

      3) The growth in Klay’s game has made the Warriors damn near indefensible when Curry is playing with him, no matter who they’re surrounded by.

      • +1.

        Bogut rolling, Lee hitting outside jumper and more fluid offensive system, means that Bogut and Lee on the floor at the same would be even better and they were already good last year.

      • And, by the way, running Bogut/Lee completely flipped the game script last night.

      • Great point re: Bogut’s positioning, past seasons found him camped down on the low block, an easy rotation for his man to bother DLee.

        I also caught the “ROLL” being called out from the Dubs bench. Got a good chuckle out of that. Some games he seems more intent on making a serious attempt at getting a shot out of the roll.

  68. I suspect the Sac win can largely be attributed to Kings’ weak bench and their general disarray since Malone left. Sacramento started off hot then soon cooled—and succumbed to defensive pressure. The sub scoring was encouraging, and they really put the game away in the middle of 2nd Q. With Speights, Lee, Iguodala, and Barbosa, you get a lot of spacing and offensive options. Livingston had plenty of bailouts—and I believe all of his assists went to Speights. But the Sac subs couldn’t score themselves and really looked scattered on defense.

    • so far the shortcomings of the roster and coaching have been only infrequently exposed, and obviously last night was not such an occasion. even a roster as modest as Bos’ can bother the woeyrs, because it has the coaching and scouting to slow the steamroller and enough depth to counter the woeyr bench. can only hope the next six weeks bring better contests than the bulk of the past two plus months.

  69. Great piece by ESS on the Warriors defense:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12273986/how-golden-state-warriors-built-nba-best-defense

    One obvious quibble: The Lacobites didn’t invent the concept of multiple, positionless, switchable long wings. That was the invention of Voldemort, the coach with the name that must not be spoken. And a linchpin of the brand of basketball that carries his name, Voldieball.

    • Though you may have felt it was implied (as he didn’t elaborate on the concept’s history), ESS didn’t say GS under Lacob invented that philosophy. In fact, he links to an argument Mark Cuban had with Charles Barkley and Kenny Smith on the subject back in 2005, so it’s safe to say he knows it isn’t a recent invention.

    • Felt, I’m a big fan of Don Nelson and love what he brought to the game, especially on offense. But I’m not recalling multiple positionless long wings. Or much in the way of defensive game planning, for that matter.

      Perhaps you could expand on that?

      • Milwaukee Sentinel, March 27, 1985

        “They were very effective the way they played defense by jump-switching. They don’t care who they end up guarding.” — Washington Bullets coach Gene Shue after losing to Nelson’s Milwaukee Bucks

      • Sports Illustrated, October 28, 1985

        “Milwaukee, arguably the best defensive team in the league last season, seems to draw the most fire about its tactics. In Nelson’s system defenders switch every time offensive players cross—or anytime a potential pick is set.”

        • Thanks for sharing. I was too young for 1985, but never did I think that once upon a time Nellie’s teams were good defensive team. May be he was actually coaching D 30 years back instead of delegating to someone like Keith Smart.

      • Hat, I guess you’ve forgotten We Believe, which had 6 long switching wings, 4 of whom were great defenders. Harrington, Jackson, JR, Barnes, Pietrus, Azubuike. And I kind of remember that Nellie had a defensive game plan for the number one seed that involved swarming Dirk with said wings, which held Dirk and the Mavs way below their scoring averages even while the Warriors were playing at a ridiculous pace. And which led directly to Nellie being sued by Mark Cuban, for improperly using his familiarity with Dirk and the Mavs to destroy them.

        And I guess you’ve forgotten RunTMC, and Nellie’s use of Richmond, Marciulonis, Elie, and Higgins on the wings, and Askew and Mullin at four.

        I don’t blame you for not following Nellie’s defense in Dallas, with players like Finley, Raja Bell, Josh Howard, Buckner, Griffin, Najera, Abdul-Wahad, etc. etc., which helped create the leagues’ best point differential in 2003.

        All of Nellie’s teams were built with long interchangeable, switching, defensive wings as a founding principle. You can’t play Nellieball without them.

        • Mostly I remember SJax staying strapped to Dirk’s chest. The single greatest – and nastiest – display of wing D I ever saw.

        • my guess, some folks here didn’t watch much n.b.a. back in the day when zone defenses were illegal. switching was more the norm than the exception, but most teams didn’t have the personnel to avoid mismatches. offenses would be aimed to identify the mismatches and exploit them. one team famous for the personnel to thrive by switching was holtzman’s NY teams, featuring players who could defend multiple positions, most prominently frazier, bradley, debusschere, but also including le grande jackson.

          nelson was another player competent at defending three positions and his Bos teams played holtzman’s five times every season, plus two memorable eastern conference championship series. the first championship encounter came with frazier and bradley in their second year, russell still playing, Bos prevailing in seven vs. NY and seven vs. LA, west the sole finals m.v.p. ever on a losing team. heinsohn became the Bos coach after russell retired, and one of his teams with nelson lost the conference finals in five to NY, with jerry lucas, nelson’s college arch rival, having replaced reed as the NY center.

        • “We Believe, which had 6 long switching wings, 4 of whom were great defenders. Harrington, Jackson, JR, Barnes, Pietrus, Azubuike.

          Felt, it is an overstatement. Of that crew, Steph Jack obviously great defender when he wanted but inconsistent. Only Azubuike, I could remember was putting in consistent effort. Pietrus too have had moments but then also used to do as many mistakes.

    • amusing to me how much marketing and p.r. fuel the media coverage. when lacob and ridder were bullish on das Wunderkind, they passed off plenty of fluff about barnes. now their favor has shone on d’mond, who even got to model one of the charcoal jerseys alongside barnes for a camera session recently. only in recent months have stories on d’mond’s rookie season come out (his first year was frayed with injuries and his coach’s fickleness of course). two examples — the account how j.tyler was assigned to ‘mentor’ the rookie green, and how green told the coaches he was firing his elder within a week. in the strauss piece, the exchange between the vegas league coach, erman, and green, with erman openly acknowledging green’s superior acumen.

      • So Green is getting more press than Barnes now, is that a bad thing ? Shouldn’t you be happy?

        • couldn’t tell from your comment if your query was rhetorical, but lacobite marketing/media, at worst, affects my sense of contentment or well being as a minor, minor nuisance.

          curious factoid — d’mond’s minutes have exceeded barnes’ by less than 100 this season, about two minutes per game. circumstantial evidence that supports the ‘showcase’ hypothesis.

          • Here is why Draymond’s minutes can be around Barnes.

            * Draymond’s game, the way he battles bigger guys, he shouldn’t be playing too many minutes, it is injury waiting to happen
            * Draymond has a very capable backup PF and bunch of players off bench who can play SF
            * Barnes minutes will go down as Iguodala plays better. If Rush could play, Barnes probably would have not averaged more than 24 mins per game.

            None of the three points I made have anything to do with coaches or front office bias as you would like to believe.

  70. Interesting article, but it’s too early in the season for anyone to be taking bows.

  71. No Rondo. Not that it would make a big difference. I bet a trade of Rajon for, say, Brandon wright, jameer Nelson and Jae Crowder (and a first rd pick?) is looking pretty enticing to Cuban right now. Dirks still got the fadeaway, but it’s being carted around on some pretty shaky wheels.
    And don’t forget Charlie friggin’ Villanueva!
    I believe feltbot compared CV to Mo Buckets. One big difference being that Buckets actually enjoys playing basketball.

    Montas gonna have to be Huge tonite or it’s lights out. Should be entertaining up-n-down action.

    • Wow Kerr. Harrison playing the whole first Qtr? Completely whiffed on at least three rotations.
      Even friggin’ Vanillanueva with the 3.

      They’re still scuffling but Dubs can chip away.

    • Half. I expect this team to comeback when down now. steph and klay too good to stop for too long.

      With Barbosa , as Iggy, comes the good and the bad.

    • Charlie friggin V. ends the 3rd with a 3. Wubs pull it out.

      Barea is a actually a decent offensive player, and he competes on D. But he looks like the offspring of an orc and a dwarf from Lord of the Rings. Think he’s married to a model..

      • If you missed the game read my recap. I wrote it before it happened too.
        Currys flip shot over Tyson…!

        Sorry for the soliliquy

        • wonderful to see barbosa thriving as the energy boost and relief scorer for this game. kerr had the luxury of giving curry an extended fourth quarter rest, thanks to green, iguodala, barbosa handling everything on both ends. d’mond sustaining an almost unbelievable level of energy down the stretch, while bogut had to pick his moments and depend on his bodyguard. barnes fans, your guy didn’t really rise to the occasion, but iguodala did, and the finishers were the four top vets plus green.

          • 12 pts off 5 shots, I will take that Barnes performance. He was also net +ve for the game. Yes, he was bad defensively in 1st quarter but so was everyone in the team. Green and Iguodala would almost every game will play better defense than Barnes, that is known. Barnes would finish games very rarely, so not sure what you are surprised about. He doesn’t finish games because Iguodala is better choice to finish the games.

            Barnes helped warriors win yesterday, that is all I care about.

  72. Dirk 4-15. Dray 10 boards, 6 assists, 3 blocks, general mayhem.

    Advantage Green.

  73. There are two types of teams that concern me. The first are teams with large, fairly mobile front courts, who allow putting pressure on the perimeter because they dominate the paint, such as Chicago, Memphis, and even Utah, as we saw last week. The second are teams who aren’t as large up front but have athletic defenders and can present scoring threats from several sizable players inside and out, who are hard to stop—OKC and the Spurs, when they are hitting on all cylinders, though both have been up and down all season, largely because of health issues. Against both types, the Warrior starters will have trouble scoring with the starters. They have three starters who can’t initiate offense or finish on their own—Barnes and Bogut—and Green usually is only open for 3s. That puts all the pressure on the guards, and we saw that tonight. They did turn the ball over, which led to transition buckets, but in most cases I saw they were trying to get something going inside that wouldn’t have worked any way.

    Dallas is like both teams, but not enough of either. The big move by Kerr was getting the mobile players in who could initiate or drive or shoot—Barbosa, Speights, and Igoudala, with help from the other two—and is what turned the game.

    Chandler just embarrassed Bogut. You see the advantage of mobility over bulk.

    Did Barnes do anything right on defense? He got burned every time I looked.

    Steph, of course, was phenomenal.

    I guess we’ll find out about Atlanta Friday.

    • Meant to add—against the more mobile teams like the Spurs, Bogut just doesn’t add much because of his slowness and limited range. And I saw Chandler put the move on him at least twice.

    • Game flow: follow the course of the game, look at the graph, ride the roller coaster.

      http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20150204&game=DALGSW

    • Barnes couldn’t guard Parsons, that’s for sure, and part of the reason for all the Chandler dunks over Bogut.

      And why is DLee slipping those P&R screens so soon and then looks back at Curry for the ball? The primary scorer is Curry. This is happening lately with DLee. Is that correct way to run P&R with Steph Curry,, the best scorer in the game? And DLee was just lost tonight trying to defend the Mavs P&R.

      • warriorsablaze

        Lee almost always slips the screens… I’ve discussed this many times on this board when felt starts wringing his hands about Bogut in the high screen.

        The Lee slip and dive is a good option, but can’t be the primary option as Lee seems to believe.

        • Does anyone here have access to Synergy stats? I’m guessing no since they don’t have a consumer app anymore.

          But somebody ought to be tracking the points per possession on pick and rolls with different partners. It’s quite clear to me that Curry scores more of Bogut screens than Lee screens, but Lee scores more than Bogut, and Curry gets trapped less when Lee is the screener. What all of this nets out to is much less clear.

          • warriorsablaze

            I have the same impression all up until the last part. I don’t see Curry getting trapped more with Bogut than Lee. Curry can turn the corner on the extra defender Bogut brings over, not so easy with the athletic 4’s Lee often brings (unless Lee is in at the 5).

            Lee is great at the roll, the pick not so much.

      • Be careful Marc! I know you’re a huge Felt fan so please realize that he’s on record implying that David Lee is the best PnR defender in the entire Western Conference…

        • Indeed, I agree with him and enjoy his writing. From what I saw both Bogut and DLee were spaced-out defensively in that 1st Qtr. Glad to see Boguts minutes limited. Hopefully he’ll be healthy for the play-offs.

    • Barnes was bad as pretty much whole team in the 1st quarter. It happened for two games in a row, coaching staff has some adjustments to be made there.

      But, along with the rest of the team, Barnes played better after 1st quarter to be net +ve for the whole game. Dallas scored only 60 plus pts after 1st quarter and Barnes and Mo even if Mo looked bad played part. Barnes wouldn’t be getting minutes if he was not helping out there, the coaching staff is closely observing these. His 12 pts off 5 shots helped that more than his D to become net +ve and warriors needed that.

  74. At one point in the 4th quarter, I thought coaches did a mistake, a rare mistake we can find so far in this season, that they had the following on the floor.

    Green, Iguodala, Livingston, Bogut and Barbosa.

    That is probably the worst 5 dubs can put in over there .

    • the quintet that displeased you so allowed kerr to rest curry for a solid five minutes to begin the fourth quarter. and if you look at the score, the game was not decided yet when the quarter began, at a three point margin. barbosa got a quick five points, preventing his former Phx bosses on the woeyr bench from getting agita no doubt as curry sat. curry returned with a larger lead than when he ended the third and went right back to work.

      • Curry rest was worth it, but thought that line up would be offensively challenged and then Iguodala made a rare 3. I would have Klay or Lee or Speights with that group.

        • I noticed the same thing about how odd & offensively challenged that group was. And when they replaced Bogut/Green with Speights/Barnes (i.e., smaller at both C & PF), they got hurt on offensive rebounds.

          But as some hack playwright once said, all’s well that ends well.

  75. warriorsablaze

    The first quarter defense was bizarre… makes me wonder if maybe they were experimenting a bit out there. I’ve never seen them miss so many rotations, almost like they weren’t quite comfortable with what they were doing.

    It even confused Fitz the basketball genius.

  76. You taking the Dallas game, Feltbot? I’m curious why the Warriors got burned so badly on defense 1st Q. It’s too easy to say they were flat.

    One thing I noticed was that the Warriors forced bad passes inside, which as I recall led to turnovers and transition offense, but there wasn’t anything there anyway. The other thing is Bogut just isn’t that mobile and Dallas was able to open up the lane and whole court with quick, multiple attacks. Not being able to score themselves also hurt.

    • I should probably review the first and third quarters to see exactly what the problem was, but my impression was that the Mavs offense did something to confuse the Warriors pick and roll coverage in the first quarter, and the coaches took care of that at halftime.

      The Mavs have a lot of great penetrators, combined with a long and athletic finisher in Chandler, and the combination gave Bogut fits. I also think that Bogut is way off the form he had before he injured his knee.

      Warriors smallball won this game, quite obviously. Dirk got eaten up by Dray in the post, and couldn’t guard the faster Warriors on defense.

      It should be noted that the Mavs once again didn’t have their full team. In the first game, the Warriors benefited quite obviously from the loss of Chandler Parsons, who abused Barnes in this game. And in this game, the Warriors and especially Curry benefited quite obviously from the loss of Rondo, who is still a premier defender when he wants to be.

      Barnes looked much better when given David Lee’s minutes at the four on the second unit. Dallas was at a disadvantage with the limited Aminu.

      I will be recapping the Hawks game (if I’m allowed to talk about the Hawks yet).

      • The scrappy D that warriors played in Clippers series last year with Green starting is exactly what won the game yesterday. Not sure you can play 82 games like with that intensity but good to see that when it was needed as in yesterday. I thought Bogut or Speights played at C and Green, Lee or Barnes played at PF. Not sure if you want to call that small ball or Nellie ball but the brilliance of Curry and the D won the game. Dallas failed to take the advantage of Speights at C by not going to hoop as much.

        On Rondo, I think he is overrated as defender and as a player. His best days were playing with 3 HOFers, think most would look good playing with them.

      • We’ve never seen the defense so abused, and it came so quickly I had trouble assembling it. Except maybe against the Lakers just before Christmas. To a lesser extent, they are a similar team, or were that night.

        Bogut’s lack of mobility has to hurt, whatever is going on with him. But I’m not sure at top form he makes that much difference, except maybe to do a better job against Chandler. He will struggle against athletic centers regardless.

        Again, this is the kind of team that will give the Warriors problems—big enough, athletic, with multiple scorers and multiple attacks. Dallas just isn’t deep enough or that good. But teams like OKC and the Spurs, if full strength, will be stiff challenges. We may see something similar at Atlanta.

        It’s hard to know how good the Warriors are. There just haven’t been many challenges of this order.

        • Bogut was overmatched yesterday. He usually does two great things on D, defend C or PF on a switch and be an intimidating presence there. He failed to defend C yesterday but did everything else. Ofcourse, he also helps Curry to get open for 3s.

      • To concur with Felt’s 1st paragraph, Kerr said as much during both in-game and postgame interviews — in the latter, he referred to Carlisle as a “master of misdirection” (or something like that) & running plays that look like one thing, then turn out to be something else.

        Regarding Bogut, he’s also said he was taking medication for the flu, though it’s possible he’s off it by now.

    • warriorsablaze

      Your commitment to making a dig on Bogut in every post is impressive…though he wasn’t the cause of the defensive issues in the first quarter. Not that Bogut had a particularly good game, mind you.

      The Warriors were running hard double teams on the perimeter and over-rotating for no apparent reason. Bogut can’t rotate out to the open guy 15 ft out on the baseline and stay with Chandler at the same time.

      There were so many rotation lapses that it made me think they were experimenting with a new look.

      • warriorsablaze

        Perhaps Felt will see something upon a re-watch… it was just bizarre to watch. They just looked confused.

  77. Not even a peep here on Stephs 51. We’re getting spoiled.

    Really wanna watch the Atl game closely. They’re a mystery to me. Steph and Klay seem to take challenges personally now…

    CharlieV makes Mo Buckets look like Magic Johnson. Mo’s shot was on last night and he made some positve contributions towards the W.

  78. Unless I missed one, Curry didn’t shoot off a single Bogut pick, in fact Bogut was off the court when he went on a shooting spree. The notion that Bogut opens up shots for him just isn’t true enough to make a difference, though it does make Bogut somewhat useful. Curry works best when the offense is active, and when he can move around and get screens set by anyone, and when he has a clear view of the court and basket so he can make his moves. But when Bogut sets a pick, he has to wait for it to be set, plus he loses his vision.

    I should let up on Bogut, but he is the wrong center for this team. We saw the right center on the other side of the court. Then there’s his health. And that contract. It just hurts.

    • Considering they’re both getting on in years and have been dinged up for large parts of their respective careers, Tyson looked a lot spryer than Andrew last night. He looked like the center who teamed with CP3 and David West in NewOrleans, finishing alley-oops when that team was a serious threat. But I think its alittle harsh to say that Bogut is the wrong center for this team. He’s obviously not ideal, and his health issues are always hovering there, but he has shown he can still hold down the middle, especially on D (not so much last night.) At this point he’s ours, and BBall is a team game, with the W’s looking pretty good.
      I’d trade the whole roster sans Klay and Steph for another NO center – the current one. Pretty ridiculous scenario , but you could trot out those 3 with a couple D-leaguers and make the playoffs year after year.

      GS could have the makings of a serious dynasty if the FO makes some astute moves over the next two coming seasons.

      • Exactly, one off game by Bogut, that is it.

      • Yeah, yeah. Go team. But it’s frightening how good the Warriors would be with this backcourt and a mobile two-way center. They could break any defense by any team in the NBA.

    • “I should let up on Bogut, but he is the wrong center for this team. We saw the right center on the other side of the court. Then there’s his health. And that contract. It just hurts.”

      Wow, frustrated at Bogut, now ?? Couldn’t see when your frustration on Barnes moved onto Bogut. Bogut in the team, 23-3. Bogut is also the C that helped dubs win only playoff series in like 8 years. How can anyone be frustrated at anyone in the team. Where do you think Chandler would help on D, warriors are already #1 in the defense and Dallas are not good defensive team. On offense, yesterday’s was a rare performance from Chandler.

      It is one thing you like Chandler over Bogut, but calling Bogut as wrong center for this team, think you were waiting to pile on Bogut.

      • BTW, Warriors got +7 in decisive 3rd quarter with Bogut and rest of the quarter 0 +/-. Next crucial run +6 to start fourth quarter when both Curry and Bogut were on bench.

  79. WAB and CK @75,

    Good observations about the way Lee and Bogut’s handle their respective screening duties in the pick and roll. Lee does have a propensity to slip to much and Bogut’s, not enough. The fact is the decision on what the screener does is supposed to be based on how the defense is playing the PnR. If the screener’s defender is aggressively showing or blitzing, the screener is supposed to slip and be in position to receive a pass. If they hold the screen, the ball handler is dribbling into a trap without their natural outlet. If the defense is playing the PnR with a hedge and sag from the screener’s defender then the screener holds the screen to let the ball handler curl around or fade and the screener then creates separation and makes themselves available with a roll or pop.

    • Thanx UT (and WAB). I understand better now. From what I remember, both DLee and Bogut missed D assignments early on. Kerr/Adams made adjustments. DLee never returned and Bogut reduced minutes again.

  80. WAB @78 & Harry @80 (on rgg’ propensity for voluminous yet cherry-picked criticisms of Bogut)

    +1

    No mention of Bogut when he stifles one of the premier offensive centers in Cousins (of course, it was everybody else that did a great job that game.). Bogut is terrific in many match ups and not as good in others like every other player in the league but the visual and statistical evidence in the face of rgg’s pronouncements is staggering.

    Steve Kerr and Ron Adams have built a defense that clearly funnels opponents to Bogut. They do this because they are stupid right? They put the cross hairs right on the poor Aussie who apparently belongs on the island of misfit Dubs according to rgg because they want the opponents to attack the team’s weakness. They must do this because they hate the way the toilet water swirls the opposite direction down-under. Not because Bogut routinely obliterates those who take the challenge of coming down the funnel to the tune of league best team record, multiple best team defensive statistics, and multiple near or at the top individual defensive statistics including lowest conversion percentage at the rim.

    He has some limitations offensively but the elite level of defense and specific type of defense he brings is virtually irreplaceable. Not to mention that a limited offense is not the same as an offensive non-contributor. FB has at times hit on the only legitimate criticisms. He has to prove he can make it through the post season, he appears less effective on the road, and he appears less effective on back to backs. Criticism exceeding that borders on willful ignorance.

    • +1 back to you because your response is been better than mine.

    • warriorsablaze

      +1 for every 1000 words of willful ignorance.

    • +1

      Yes, a couple of posters here–along with the blog master–are outstanding purveyors of willful ignorance–over and over and over and…..

      • There you go again, LT, making acidic comments without much point to them.

        If you want to debate specific assertions, do so. Bring facts to make your *basketball* point. Otherwise, please, STFU. No one needs to hear you pose with lofty disdain for the blogmaster, when you don’t seem to have an opinion of your own on basketball matters.

        One of the nice things about this blog is the freedom to bring differing viewpoints to the discussion. C’mon, LT. You’re a smart guy and an avid basketball fan.

        Bring it.

        • You are a suck up nonpareil. Please take it as a compliment!

          I sure hope that Felt doesn’t wear camouflage…

    • seems fairly certain to me that they won’t get far in the post season without bogut, but it’s also difficult to hope or expect him to physically be close to his full capacity for every game through multiple series. that would be off the charts from his history since coming west. one of two miracles will be required for the team to reach the conference finals — bogut’s constant presence in the lineup, or lee’s miracle revival between now and mid April, continuing beyond.

    • how bogut fared vs. cousins has close to zero relevance to how his team will cope with very different personnel and teams who could be matched against them in the post season. the team could stumble against SA, OK, or Mem, who use very different types of big combinations, many having perimeter shooting skills. belinelli just recently returned from injury, leonard a few games earlier, and they have an x factor big, diaw.

    • I’ll take willful ignorance, if that is what it is, over blind faith and phony boosterism any day, YT. But look at Bogut’s game log, and you’ll find he hasn’t made a serious impact in games against major opponents either because he didn’t perform that well or didn’t play at all because of injury.

      http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/2747/andrew-bogut

      I did give him credit for his handling of Howard the last Houston game, but then we find Howard was on the verge of going on the disabled list. And Howard lit him up the previous game. Utah shut him down the last game. I did give him credit for his performance for his job on Boogie, but Boogie got his points the last game and we won’t see Sacramento in the playoffs. His performances against Portland and the Clippers (as I’ve said, they’ll need him against the Clippers) the first week of the season were also good.

      They need him, but he’s a horribly overhyped player.

      • Bogut is an outstanding rim defender. At the speed of the NBA game, forcing opponents to shoot upward against him is a fine strategy.

        I wouldn’t call him overhyped. On the other hand, you’re right, rgg, he’s not always going to be available. He’s also not always going to be the best option, depending on the opponent.

        The Ws will play Bogut when he’s the best option, and they won’t when he’s not.

        In lieu of a better option, ’nuff said. Better options don’t exactly grow on trees.

      • That is biased opinion. He is a difference maker. Opponents shoot 41% at rim when he is playing. Check 82games.com or drpm, he is one of the top defender in the league. He is worth all the hype.

        But like Hat said, his availability for all of playoffs is the valid question but u don’t have better option than hoping him to be available.

      • Cousins scored 2 points while being guarded by Bogut last game.

    • To me, funneling to Bogut or anyone else is a poor strategy, especially given the Warriors top flight crew of Wing defenders (+Curry).

    • rgg is one of the biggest cherry-pickers I’ve seen on an internet forum.

  81. I wonder if we’ll be seeing more of Barbosa, especially tomorrow night. His energy on offense is infectious, and he has shot 8/13 on 3s the last four games, 62%. When paired with Iguodala, things open up. The old man looks pretty damn spry.

    I like Holiday, but he’s looked rough the last games. Then again, he hasn’t played much. He’s older than I realized—25—and you’d like to see more at this stage. I wonder what his ceiling is. Also you have to ask. He was a Myers and K Lacob project. You know Kerr has good thoughts about Barbosa, a veteran from the past.

    • I’m not sold on Barbosa. I still wince when he launches a 3. His handle can make for some interesting forays and his matador defense with the wrap-around stab at the steal hasn’t worked once yet (that I can remember). He is still incredibly quick. Loved that back cut he made to the hole last night for the ez 2.

      You got a bit piled on for your Bogut-as-wrong- center post. I know what you meant though. Imagine ADavis running with this team. Think they’re be a few lob dunks? Davis and Cousins are the 2 best young centers in the league(didnt they come out back2back after 1 yr at Kentucky?), but we won’t be acquiring them in a trade for andrew.

      Boguts game on offense never really materialized with the Wubs. In an odd way it has some similiarities with AndrisBeans. But bogut hasn’t completely gone missing. Hes a cerebral player who sometimes blocks a shot with barely jumping, using good hand-eye skills and his great size. He’s a confident player. His nemesis is himself- his body.

      I’m kinda of amazed he’s still playing. He has looked very sluggish lately. maybe an early retirement after winning the Crown?

      if i’m not mistaken Bogut has 1 more yr on his deal, and Iggy and DLee 2 each. Mucho dinero will be freed up And all 3 will still be players who can contribute to a winner in the meantime. Er, provided they can get up and down on the floor. Other than draft picks, the Warriors are very well situated for the future. They already have an ALL-Star backcourt. You would think that gS would be an attractive destination to marquee free agents..
      Anthony Davis anyone?

      • remember, the lacobites gave bogut his extension before he was into the final year of his Mil contract. the actual contract years remaining beyond this June : lee, 1 ; bogut, iguodala, curry, 2 ; thompson, all four years of his new contract. for two role players getting mixed reviews, livingston and barnes, the team can retain them beyond June ’16 by coughing up 5.7 m. for the vet, and 5.2 m. (or more if they wish to re-sign him for multiple seasons) for barnes.

        if you wish to look at it another way, in terms of when bogut and iguodala start the final year of their deals, that would also be June ’16. best not to assume ‘expiring contracts’ to have a special attraction ; their value has seen volatility in recent years, and the cap will be increased significantly for ’16-’17. the major piece of bidness of course for the ’16-’17 season would be re-signing the demigod curry, presumably for the maximum. your guy davis will most likely expect the maximum on his next contract, NO of course the highest in theory, so if he wants his $$ it won’t be from GS, if curry re-signs.

        • What happens if Bogut can’t or won’t play any longer due to injury, prior to his contract expiring? He still keeps the $$? And would those $$ count against the cap?

          • injuries can’t change the legal status of guaranteed nba/c.b.a. contracts. this is a huge fact of life distinction between the players’ union in the n.f.l. in contrast to mlb or the nba. just recall how Mil had no regrets at all over trading bogut — they were looking at paying him huge $$ for multiple seasons of rehab, or consider what happened to Orl’s grand plans for grant hill (in an alternate universe, healthy and durable, considered the peer of his arrogance le jordan).

            the one-time amnesty was created to bail out teams who were looking at huge $$ for disabled or physically impaired players still under contract. many teams chose to expend them on healthy guys who’d simply declined and were soaking up too much cap room. teams still had to pay off the amnestied $$, but it got exempted from their caps. carlos boozer, who helped the bussies in one of the season’s memorable upsets against the woeyrs, had his contract amnestied by Chi, with LA now picking up a very small portion of his tab. if a player can’t continue and chooses to be charitable, he might consent to a buy out, but these are never settled for much less than .90 of the original contract’s value, and the buy out counts against the cap.

            bogut is going to get all the $$ on the contract he signed with the lacobites, from somebody. a buyout might be applied to rush’s contract if they’re pressed to use that last roster spot with another player.

      • Two more seasons for Iguodala and Bogut (that’s the hard part). One more for Lee.

        This could be such a brilliant team with just a few medium pieces. Just a good mobile center who could roll to the hoop. A boy gets to dream.

        Fawning Fitz is the one who most drives me crazy with the B-man. And the expectations go down each year. He was billed as a scoring center, etc.

        Barbosa adds juice to the subs. It’s not like he hasn’t done this before.

        • “Just a good mobile center who could roll to the hoop”

          That and a two way C is your wish list. Who is the two way C you would like on this team? Chandler is not a two way C. Marc Gasol, Dwight Howard, Cousins ?? Those Cs are not available and of those only Marc Gasol will make this team better. Most offensive Cs are bad defensively. You basically asking for an all star C. You can’t have all stars at every position, that is not practical.

          Only issue with Bogut is health, otherwise, he is the best fit for this team.

  82. Re the discussion @71: Matt Steinmetz just wrote a piece tracing length at the wings back to We Believe and Nellieball:

    https://matthewsteinmetz.wordpress.com/2015/02/05/warriors-playing-nellie-small-ball-but-it-doesnt-mean-theyre-small/

    I of course believe Nellie had this idea long before We Believe.

  83. Possible that Dirk was struggling physically against the Warriors. DNP-Rest tonight against the Kings.

  84. Think Cleveland will easily win the
    Eastern Conference.

    No love for Livingston lately. I guess
    some buy the faulty argument that’s it’s
    better to have a shorter back-up point
    guard who averages at best little
    more than one made three per games and
    shoots 46 percent from the field, than to
    have Livingston, a taller and better
    defender, who shoots 51 plus from the field.
    Glad the front office is more discerning.

  85. Think the Warriors will pass
    on making any trade before
    trading deadline nor should they.

    • Ssh, don’t crush the dreams of the “showcase” cultists! (Though I’m not sure there really are any besides Felt.)

    • I don’t think they will make a trade either.

    • It’s very funny that Felt is changing his mind yet again! Merely a few days ago Felt wrote the following:

      “The trading deadline is a very key moment in the Warriors season for more reasons than moto mentions. That’s the moment the showcase ends.”

      In fact, this one of the very few things Felt has consistently argued since the beginning of the season–even though it seemed way off base to all of the most intelligent observers.

      I wonder why the sudden and abrupt change of mind?

      • So LT when exactly are you going away? I need to mark it down on my calender so I can come back here and not have to read your long winded animosity about what the author of his own personal blog has to say. Go get your own

  86. Re Feltbot @84

    Yes, Matt “The Warriors are not a particularly strong defensive team” Steinmetz did write an article in which he compared the “We Believe” teams’s use of long wings to defend multiple positions to the current team. Oh well, where to start? With the fact that Steinmetz has nearly as many brain farts as you-know-who? That it’s really not that much of a compliment to the “We Believe” team because Steinmetz has been going on an on recently about how the current Warrior team’s defense (along with Draymond Green) is overrated?

    No, let’s just look at that 2006-7 team. I watched every game that season and, in spite of these “outstanding” and “long” wing defenders that were able to switch all over the court, the team was not very strong defensively until they went on a crazy 10 game run at the end of the season to barely sneak over .500 and into the playoffs. And, after a glorious 4 game run, they simply had no gas in the tank to keep this swarming defense up. In fact, this breakneck switching defensive “web” was simply not part of the Nellie Warriors’ DNA until that frantic late season run–and certainly not nearly to the same degree as this years’ team. Nor did they have an elite rim protector or anyone even closely resembling Draymond Green. Not even close.

    But let’s put aside for a moment that they did as Felt wants us to believe. With Felt’s recent crowing about how wonderful the ability of the current W’s to switch all over the place is, he’s merely piggybacking on what everyone who knows what they’re talking about has been saying for quite some time: i.e. that the W’s ability of most of their starting 1-4 able to switch on most plays is a massive advantage and has fueled the team’s unparalleled success.

    But all this raises a perplexing question:

    Why is Felt now also pushing for the W’s to take away this tremendous and highly unique advantage by reinserting David Lee into the starting lineup?

    Of course there are many other reasons why advocating for such a move is idiotic, but leaving those aside, can someone please step up and explain this? I’m having a real hard time understanding it.

    • On “We Believe,” I think the key is how well that group of GS players matched up with Dallas, which had bulky, defense-oriented centers (Dampier/Diop), but a small backcourt (Jason Terry & Devin Harris) and forwards that weren’t especially physical (Dirk & Josh Howard).

      The core point of Steinmetz’s article is one that I’ve always mentioned in talking about that series: As soon as DAL took its center off the floor because of the W’s team speed, Golden State became the bigger/more physical team — and they manhandled the Mavericks in that series.

      With Utah in the next round, though (with Deron Williams, Boozer, and Kirilenko in their primes), the physical advantage GS had against Dallas was largely gone.

      • My post wasn’t really about the fine grained details of those two playoff series–and I agree with the general assessment, even if Steinmetz is making idiotic claims that the current W’s defense is significantly overrated.

        The current W’s team is clearly superior defensively to that We Believe team. It not only is far more versatile but it has been emphasizing high and consistent defensive effort for years now, which is quite unlike Nellie’s teams.

        But the more perplexing question concern’s Felt’s crowing on and on about how having all these long defenders being able to switch all over the place and then advocating that the W’s get rid of that by reinserting David lee into the starting lineup. What the hell is going on with that?

        • Steinmetz didn’t say the current team was overrated. He implied that the older team was underrated. Read carefully, LT, there’s a big difference.

    • Regarding David Lee, I will defend Felt somewhat, but only because I can dispute his overblown “Lacob’s Cube” claims at the same time. :)

      As I’ve said before, the Warriors have one of the deepest and most flexible rosters in the NBA, and there are lots of starting lineups they could succeed with. Obviously, Kerr likes the current lineup for its switchability on defense, as well as its spacing on offense (Green/Barnes at the 3-point line, with Bogut above the free-throw line, leaves the paint open for Steph & Klay to drive). But the downside, frequently discussed here, is the lack of spacing in the 2nd unit, as well as the occasional defensive liability of Speights & Lee on the floor together.

      Kerr’s choice has been to maximize the ability of the starting 5 to play his preferred strategy, and improvise with/not worry about the bench unit as long as those problems are contained within the 10-12 minutes Curry is resting. And at 39-8, he’s obviously earned the benefit of the doubt.

      But that doesn’t make it crazy to suggest ways to improve the 2nd-unit situation, even if no changes are likely as long as the W’s keep winning at this rate. (My own pet alternative is bringing both Barnes and Draymond off the bench.) The key question is whether the potential improvements to the 2nd unit would be outweighed by decreasing the starting unit’s impact. As long as GS has this much talent on the roster, though, they’ll win lots of games either way.

      • First, every team has an “owner’s cube” (if we are to accept Felt’s ridiculously overblown claims of Lacob meddling in every detail of the team) in the sense that no team is perfect. That the W’s are as close to being perfect as possible (given all of the obstacles in constructing such a team) is if no matter to him because, well, he adores his pet phrases and won’t let go of them.

        Your reasoning is quite odd, I must say. You’re claiming that there’s a legitimate argument to shake up the team’s starting unit mid season (after Kerr worked so hard–and successfully–to assuage Lee and Iguodala) even though it has been a smashing success. And all this merely in order to improve the spacing on the 2nd unit? Are you kidding me?!?

        And the only thing that will supposedly create this superior spacing for the 2nd unit is adding the robotic H Barnes, who has trouble creating his own shots? Isn’t Lee a far superior offensive threat than Barnes? The 2nd unit has trouble scoring as it is but taking away its most lethal scorer and one of the only W’s who can get his own shot will be improved with the addition of Barnes?!? And is Barnes really such a dramatic defensive improvement over Lee? Also, if the Lee/Speights defensive combo is such a concern they can simply have Ezili play–or keep Draymond on–or myriad other options. And is the Speights/Lee combo really that much of a liability against opposing teams’ second unit?

        You say that the 1st unit will suffer with the addition of Lee but it makes sense to do it nonetheless because you feel that the second unit will improve with the addition of Barnes–and subtraction of Lee. Are you joking?

        And you completely lost me with your desire to diminish Draymond Green’s role on the team by having him become a 2nd unit guy. And there’s no concern for you that both Iguodala and Lee both are getting older and highly injury prone?

        Wow!….

        • I’ll reply to the last part first. IMO, the risk of Draymond running down as the season continues is as plausible as the injury concerns for Lee, Iguodala, and Bogut — in fact, the sharp decline in his shooting percentages over the last couple of months seem like vivid proof of this. Pacing himself is not exactly a Draymond Green trademark, so bringing him off the bench would be a way of protecting him from himself, so to speak. :)

          • Incidentally, I wasn’t avoiding your other points; I’m just trying to break things down into more easily digestible pieces so specific points can be commented on & replied to.

            See the response to harry below for more (including a link where I discussed this topic a few weeks ago).

        • The other argument for making sure Draymond is on the floor with the 2nd unit is so you always have a top-notch interior defender & screen-setter on the floor at all times — in essence, staggering his minutes with Bogut much like teams do with their best scorers (it would be comparable to making sure Klay is on the floor when Curry sits, and vice versa).

          • I fully understand why you avoided responding to the bulk of my response (if you know what I mean…).

            But the claim that Draymond–who Ron Adams described as being indefatigable–is as injury prone (or susceptible to “running down”) as Bogut, Lee, and Iguodala is frankly absurd. When has Draymond EVER suffered from injuries at all–let alone like the three far older veterans you cite above? What’s going on with you and Felt? Why are you buying into this rubbish about how “frail” Dray is but at the same time are able to completely ignore injury concerns for the 3 highly injury prone veterans??? You think that they should take on bigger roles and play more minutes against better players while “Dainty Draymond” needs to be protected by playing less and on the 2nd unit.

            Also, please explain why the team needs to shake things up just to help the 2nd unit–which is doing better and better as it is? The 2nd unit’s “problems” are in great part due to the fact that there’s less continuity with them given players coming off injuries and Kerr switching in and out the 9-12 players. But they’re doing pretty well in any event. How specifically will replacing Lee with Barnes improve the 2nd unit?

            Swopa, you’re doing a fantastic job channeling your inner Feltbot. What’s going on between the two of you?

          • Regarding Draymond & fatigue, see this comment I made about the final playoff game against the Clippers last season.

            IMO, Draymond was totally gassed at the end, and it cost the Warriors the game. Which is why I think it’s a legitimate concern.

      • My take, at the start of season, I really wanted Iguodala and Lee in starting 5, well because it was best starting 5 last year and could have been better under new coach. But, Barnes+Green are doing exceptionally well in their place, so coaches have made a good decision. I wouldn’t change the start 5 unless injuries necessitates it. If Green or Barnes is hurt though, Barnes+Lee or Iguodala+Green are bad fit for start 5, I would rather promote both Iguodala and Lee to start 5, one without other into start 5 will put too much pressure on splash brothers for offense and Bogut for defense.

        • I also like the idea of keeping Barnes/Green and Lee/Iguodala paired either way.

          And I should be clear that I don’t really *advocate* changing the starting lineup; it’s more accurate to say that I would be OK with it if Kerr made that decision.

          As I mentioned to rgg a few weeks ago, it seemed like Kerr was strongly considering the possibility in mid-November. As Lee’s comeback was further delayed and the W’s turned into a juggernaut, clearly Kerr abandoned that idea.

          • Swopa,

            All of the Warriors’ starters were fatigued at the end of that series–as were the Clippers. Of course he was! But do take note of this: Draymond was a *substitute* last year! Kind of puts holes in your justification for moving him to being a substitute this year, eh?

            Kerr has being doing *tons* of experimentation this year. Where does this lunatic idea that he does not come from?

            Also, he’s been absolutely clear that he will not change the starting lineup as long as the team is doing well. No one would, in fact. Why should he abandon this more than reasonable principle now? I don’t get it.

            What’s going on with you and Felt?

          • Playing heavy minutes in the playoffs after a much lighter load all year long is one way to become fatigued. But so is playing heavy minutes all year long.

            My preference would be to find a happy medium — enough minutes to ensure his conditioning, but not so many that he wears down.

            Similarly, if Kerr were to start Iguodala and/or Lee, I would hope that their minutes would not be significantly higher. Lee, in particular, might have a particularly short leash if he starts being abused defensively.

            About Felt: I agree with him on many topics, disagree with him on others, and find him downright clueless on a few. But he’s a knowledgeable hoops fan — on a scale of 1 to 10, he’s a solid 8, maybe even 9 on a good day.

            It’s his undying quest to prove he’s a 12 that makes him look like a buffoon at times. :)

          • Thanks Swopa,

            At the time I first started posting I’d give him an 8. Now it’s down to 5-6. I don’t know whether he’s being disingenuous at times (and knows it) or not. But he’s all over the map this year, contradicting himself on virtually everything. He also obsesses about David Lee and “Nellieball” (sic) being the cure all for everything. He has an extremely simplistic understanding of things.

            A sure and experienced mind wouldn’t be so off base so often–or need to contradict his own opinions constantly. It seems highly likely that he never played basketball at a high level–nor coached as well. This comes across clearly.

            He’s clearly been a huge disappointment for me and it boggles my mind that others don’t get it. 8-9, you’ve got to be kidding!

      • We don’t know how other lineups would work because they haven’t been tried, and I am disappointed with Kerr in this respect. There’s no reason not to experiment. But we do know from last season that the starting lineup of Lee/Bogut/Iguodala/Klay/Steph was incredibly effective, as was the closing lineup of Lee/Green (at the 4)/Iguodala/Klay and Steph. The evidence is abundant—and the lineups would be even more effective with the coaching they have now, the emphasis on early offense/pushing the pace, the improved defense and transition game.

        Longtimer, of course is being willfully obtuse, I guess because it delights him to snipe at Feltbot, who has the good sense to ignore him.

        The evidence of this season, if your standards are high, while remarkable is deceptive. The team was able to come out firing, for which Kerr gets all the credit in the world. And we’ve seen phenomenal play from Green, Klay, and Steph, for which the coaches and the players deserve great credit. Green, who was held back his first seasons, has proved himself a tremendously flexible defender. He would be a very effective 3 with the starters. And of course they would crossmatch with him as opponent lineups dictated, e.g. Dallas.

        But they won many games with sharp shooting and uptempo offense, a coordinated attack of offense and defense that led to early leads. And few of the teams they played, when you adjust for injuries among the opponents and other factors, were top playoff caliber.

        The truth of the matter is that they could have won with all kinds of starting lineups. The outstanding evidence here is Speights, who as center did a marvelous job, with significant wins against top teams. Two of the losses without Bogut could be attributed to the Christmas slump, when the whole team was off and when Ezeli, then Speights had to jump into the starter role quickly, without preparation. The Bogutless game against Chicago was close. They lost to an OKC hitting on all cylinders, also without Iguodala.

        A case could be made, in fact, than when you add everything up (almost no one does that here), offense and defense, Speights added to the equation, making up for his deficiencies on defense with offense Bogut does not have.

        But no one in their right mind would argue that Speights should start over Bogut. We can only imagine, however, how well other changes in the starting lineup might work because they haven’t been tried.

        And they would have won (health providing) with more emphasis on Lee, one of the most reliable scorers and rebounders in the NBA for some ten years, who isn’t getting the play now.

        “Green/Barnes at the 3-point line, with Bogut above the free-throw line, leaves the paint open for Steph & Klay to drive.” You’ve hit on the weakness of the team against better opponents. And the playoffs are all that matter now. They won’t be able to drive and they won’t have any other inside scoring to tax defenses. Barnes and Bogut can be lightly guarded, and Green will have to hit 3s—it’s all he’ll see. When the tempo slows, as it will in the playoffs, major pressure can be put on the guards and we’ll have to hope for more heroics.

        The major problems with the subs are Barnes and Livingston. Barnes cannot push or create and has to be supported, and still doesn’t provide much scoring with the second unit. Everyone concedes this. So they have to bolster him with the starters and vets when playing with the subs. He may be the most heavily subsidized player in the NBA. Livingston is plodding and cannot drive or shoot outside, so he has to be surrounded by scorers as well, Lee and Speights—and on occasion Barbosa. Putting Lee and Speights together with subs doesn’t make sense, either, not the way their played, because they both should be featured scorers, in different ways, but they have to divide up shots. So we have the $35m bench to prop up those two.

        I haven’t worked out the details, using the starting and closing lineups mentioned above, plus staggering players—and maybe staggering Speights as well with subs and starters to make use of his shooting might work.

        Rush looks to be a bust. What was Myers thinking. But he could have offered all kinds of substitution possibilities if playing to form. He could have bolstered 2nd unit offense where Barnes cannot. The details matter.

        • Longtimer seems to be stamping his feet and tossing his toys around because Feltbot won’t adopt his opinions. Funny stuff.

          If BRush played a bit more maybe he could actually be qualified as a bust.

          During the Dall game (not verbatim but close)-
          Fitz(on a second half HB basket): “Thats what Harrison can do! Soar to the rim!”
          JB: “Well, he needs the space to do that…”

          • I wish I had toys to toss around!

            rzz–I absolutely have no interest in Felt “adopting” my opinions. I only want there to be consistency and depth in his arguments. I’ve been really disappointed in the real lack of quality this year. What’s the bigger shame is the few (not you!) lapdogs who accept every nonsensical thing he writes.

            Also, this thread was mainly about my response to swopa–and not Felt (although he looms in the background here).

        • +1, rgg, dead on.

          There’s absolutely no reason not to experiment with different lineups, now rather than later. For teams interested in the playoffs, you might even say experimentation is the purpose of the regular season.

          • Kerr has being doing *tons* of experimentation this year. Where does this lunatic idea that he does not come from?

            Also, he’s been absolutely clear that he will not change the starting lineup as long as the team is doing well. No one would, in fact. Why should he abandon this more than reasonable principle now? I don’t get it.

        • Crap. I wrote this when your new post went up, Feltbot. Is this worth repeating?

  87. I was thinking about the very team-friendly deal they signed Steph to Moto. They may have to double the $ on that one in 2 yrs. With Step, Dray and Klay they’ll be somewhat limited. Same kind of scenario that drove Harden from OKC and they probly won’t be able to add a 3rd STAR like ADavis. Only the Lakers are allowed to do stuff like that.

    I’m not a stats freak but some are too glaring to disregard. The W’s lead la Liga in scoring at 111.4 per. The next 4 teams are all bunched up under 107. Amazingly, the team also has the highest team FG% and lowest opponents FG%. The Warriors are averaging 11.5 more pts per game than they surrender. The Hawks, whom I’d guess would be second to GS in this “stat” because of their record, average 7 more..
    GS also leads in team 3pt fG%, 38.9. Atl second at 38.8.

    One of the reasons I prefer watching Warrior home games is the energy level of the Oracle crowd. The games are more exciting. Road games often lack the ambiance and some of the arenas are just dead. Atl’s been like this the past couple seasons, but of course they’re killin it now, I would hope to see a more involved crowd and hear some noise.

    Another reason is the 4 or 5 oclock start time. I’m not in my twenties anymore and can’t start drinking beer this early. Or shouldn’t start this early :( Go Dubs