King Konged: Cavaliers 110 Warriors 99

The media storyline of this Cavaliers win over the Warriors: Curry and Klay bad shooting nights, LeBron unstoppable.

My storyline: Steve Kerr made it so.      

I exaggerate a bit of course. LeBron and the Cavs were clearly pointing towards this game, the Warriors were in the Cavs’ house, in the middle of a long mid-winter East Coast road trip, and Curry had kind of a big day yesterday, delivering a speech, hanging with Mr. President, and getting quality lap time with the First Dog. (I just now realized that Bo might be named after his owner, BO.) A lot of reasons not to see the Warriors’ best effort.

I just think that Kerr made it tougher on them than it had to be.

Good Kerr: Lacob’s Cube continues to spin for Coach Kerr, an excellent sign of a restless intelligence and dynamic strategist. Last game, Kerr adjusted his rotation to bring David Lee in earlier, allowing him some time on the floor with Curry. In this game, we actually got to see, for the first time all season, the Lee and Green frontline that was so effective in past seasons. Unfortunately, Kerr played them in the wrong system to maximize their talents — more on this later.

Kerr went to true smallball to end the third quarter, with Green remaining in to play center, and Lee remaining on the bench. An interesting choice, given Lee’s effectiveness in the first half. I didn’t mind it, though, particularly given that the Warriors were down double digits at the time, and looking mired to their ankles in mud. I’m sure Kerr wanted to speed the game up, and open the floor for Curry and Klay, and basically give his team an electric jolt with a smallball cattle-prod.

And it did set up an extended run with Lee at center in the fourth quarter, which I loved.

Bad Kerr:

Exhibit A — LeBron: Let’s start with the defense on LeBron. I’m not going to rag on Harry Barnes, LeBron gave it to everyone in this game, including Draymond, and none more than Iggy. (I don’t expect Iggy to be able to guard LeBron completely without help, but is there any reason why he shouldn’t be able to keep him in front of him in perimeter isolations? I was truly disturbed by this performance. Iggy’s making $12 million per to play defense, right?)

No, I’m not going to rag on Barnes here — he literally has no prayer. I just think that if the Warriors happen to meet the Cavs in the finals, Kerr is going to have to find a way to get Draymond Green on LeBron right from the start, and right to the end. All game, every game. Green can’t stop LeBron, no one can. But he can at least slow him. And he can darn sure make him feel him. That was one big reason why the Warriors beat the World Champion Heat in Miami twice in two years, and it’s the only way the Warriors beat this year’s Cavaliers in the finals, should we be lucky enough to see that.

Which would require, of course, a lineup change.

And how, pray tell, has David Lee played Kevin Love over the course of their careers? Thanks for asking: Dead even. Look it up. Which is saying something, given that Love was featured on the TWolves, while Lee has never been more than a second banana.

Will Kerr make a change? Probably not. But that Cube keeps on a’rollin. And funny things happen in playoff series.

Exhibit B — Pick and Roll: This is a pet peeve, so apologies because I’m gonna rant. We got to see a lot of Curry – Lee pick and roll in the first half, and Hallelujah! for that. Just imagine if Coach Kerr KNEW HOW TO SPACE IT.

3:50 1Q: Curry – Lee PNR, Lee finishes a tough, contested shot over MO SPEIGHTS’ MAN waiting in the lane.

3:00 1Q: Curry – Lee PNR, Lee destroys Kevin Love, but MO SPEIGHTS’ MAN forces him to pass out to the wing.

Shortly thereafter, Irving and Thompson destroyed Speights on PNR, because Kevin Love had Lee pulled out to the three point line. The way it’s supposed to be done.

Space the floor, Steve Kerr. Space the floor. Popovich does it. Budenholzer does it. Blatt does it. Every great coach does it. What is your problem?

Use Mo Speights to space the floor. It’s not rocket science. What is the problem?

The kicker for me came in the fourth quarter, on the only Curry – Lee pick and roll of the second half (more on this later), when Lee got challenged in the lane by DRAYMOND GREEN’S MAN.

Seriously, Steve Kerr? You can’t even space the floor on this play when Draymond Green is at the four? The same Draymond Green that lives on the three point line for most of the game?

Baffling. Just baffling.

Exhibit C — The System: Even though Kerr was botching the spacing, I was giddy with happiness in the first half over how he was using David Lee. Always getting him the ball on the move, which is the best way to use this incredibly gifted and mobile big man. Not one single triangle possession. Not one single post-up. I was delirious with joy.

Thinking to myself, if Kerr could just get the spacing right, Lee could give the Cavs 11 points in 5 minutes. Wait — that IS what he gave them. What might happen if Kerr got the spacing right? Well, one thing that might happen is that Lee might drop 40 pick and roll points on the Cavs’ heads, the way Lee once dropped 40 on the Warriors’ heads playing with a scrub point guard by the name of Duhon. Against one of the best pick and roll defenders in the NBA at that time, the young and healthy Andris Biedrins.

I was geared up for more of this in the second half. And even more geared up when I realized that the Lee and Green frontline was being trotted out again in crunch time. So what happened?


Triangle after triangle after triangle.

Seriously Steve Kerr? That’s what you’re going to run with a Lee and Green frontline, and the ability to create the best spacing on the planet? That’s what you’re going to run with one of the best pick and roll combos to ever set foot on the hardwood? Triangle?

Baffling. Utterly baffling.

Exhibit D — Curry and Klay: This actually comes under the heading of system, too.

One of the things I  admired about Don Nelson was that he really knew how to get struggling players going. If an opponent was doing something to make one his players uncomfortable, he figured it out, and he adjusted. Fast.

The Cavs were all over Curry and Klay in this game, giving them no air, and running them off the three point line. Kerr’s system was simply not working very well at generating open looks for them. Perhaps it was the speed and length of JR Smith, Shumpert and LeBron on the wings. Perhaps it was that the Warriors’ legs were tired. But it wasn’t working. What could Kerr have done?

I’m repeating myself, but high pick and roll. High pick and roll with a spread floor. Put the ball in Curry’s hands, and force him to make a play. If blitzed he has Lee in the middle of the floor playing 4 on 3. If not blitzed, then CURRY GETS GOING.

Do the same for Klay. He’s pretty adept at running pick and roll himself. Put the ball in his hands and force him to make a play.

Not just Don Nelson, but Greg Popovich, Steve Kerr’s mentor and role model, can tell you there are times to put the system aside, put the ball in your best player’s hands, and run high pick and roll with a spread floor.

Pop calls it Manu Ginobili time.

Steve Kerr has a pretty good player too. And the best pick and roll partner he could ever wish for.

What, exactly, is the problem?

The Warriors can play better.

Curry: Running in mud. Mind on other things.

4 TOs. I think he was shocked that LeBron got to his passes. Doesn’t see him enough.

Green: Ferocious as a wolverine in the low post. Is that where he belongs?

Charles Barkley: “Green’s a little fella. A little fella can only be so tough.”

Chris Webber: “His momma knows he ain’t 6-7.”

Klay: 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 blocks. JR Smith, 4 pts on 1-5.

Not just a pretty face.

Bogut: As predicted, Kerr’s preseason intention to finish games with Bogut is fraying around the edges.

Tough game for him. Time for an injection?

Barnes: I thought he looked decent in this game. One real good defensive possession against LeBron that I remember. But just not a good enough defender to make an impact.

Hit his open shots, and boy were they open. LeBron was in another zip code. They will be even more open in the playoffs, when he’s guarded by point guards.

When he has to put the ball on the floor, though….  This is one of the main reasons why the Warriors haven’t been able to exploit bigger lineups with Barnes at four as of late. He’s gotta be able to take his man off the dribble, and get to the rack.

Uggy: (see above)

Speights: Uggy shot him quite a dirty look after one blown rotation.

I think that was right before he sat down.

Livingston and Barbosa: Have you ever noticed that when Lee sets a high pick for these fellas, he never gets the ball as he rolls open down the lane?

I have — and yes, that’s a true sign of obsession.

627 Responses to King Konged: Cavaliers 110 Warriors 99

  1. David Blatt in the post-game interview said the Splash Brothers were 8 of 30 due to JR Smith and Shumpert.

    JR Smith also made a huge play stealing the ball from a Barnes fast break dribble. Barnes never saw him. All of a sudden the ball was just gone. I thought that was a momentum changer.

    • Blatt was speaking the truth about Smith in particular. The JR Smith I remember watching in the past was a gunner who never shied away from his shot. Last night, Smith had one job and that was to stick with Klay Thompson. He did so admirably, and Klay had very few opportunities to score.

      Smith took 5 shots in 36 minutes, and made one of them.

  2. And while Kerr should have run
    some better plays, it may well be
    that Cleveland has a better roster.
    As Charles Barkley correctly
    pointed out the Warriors are
    vulnerable inside regardless if
    Bogut is on the court or not and
    that was proven true last night.
    Speights should have been given
    more playing time.
    Such was compounded by
    the Warriors inability to get to
    the foul line and Curry and
    Thompson taking a high volume
    of shots and not hitting them.

  3. Feltbot, you are completely right that David Lee carved up the Cavs. It’s kind of mind-blowing that he didn’t go for 30 last night. That is on the coaches who need to recognize exactly what is working, and keep going to it until the other team makes an adjustment.

    We did see the pick and roll with Bogut in the first half. The play was working splendidly, and Bogut was taking shots…and Bogut was missing shots. He was 3-8 on the night, but 4 of those misses were basically bunnies. I think we saw more pick and roll last night than we have seen in a long time (and we should have seen more with Lee/Curry.

    LeBron was hot from 3 point range and scored a season high. I actually don’t blame the defense too much last night. Everything was in sync for LeBron (he even took that heat check 30 footer from the top of the key). When Bron is hitting 3s, the defense has to come out on him, and that’s why he was blowing past Iggy on his way to the hoop. When he is not shooting as confidently Iggy, I believe, can still stay in front of him. Feltbot, you are right that Green is the only player who can really bother Bron in that mid/low post.

    Iggy needs to start playing with more energy on the offensive end on the consistent basis. He had two spectacular dunks last night. He needs to play with that energy level and determination more often if he is going to actually help the offense as a scorer. Additionally, I think the Cavs funneled shots to Iggy, much like the Spurs did to Barnes in the playoffs two years ago. The defensive plan against the Warriors now is to take away Curry and Thompson at all costs and force Bogut, Iggy, Barnes or Green to beat you. Lee was on his way to beating the Cavs, but he didn’t get enough shots. It was a shame.

  4. You made a lot of what I was going to say unnecessary because it would just be redundant Feltbot. Only saw half the 3rd and the 4th. The second I plopped down in front of the tube Bron nailed a jumper in HBs face. It was actually good D by Harrison and I won’t criticize him for going mano-a-Mano against the King at times this game. LeBrons got one thing that Steph doesn’t have, and never will – -that BODY. He can be a straight up bully and tonite the Warriors were the new kid in school he took a disliking to. He’s got the rings and I believe the sum of the baubles on the Warriors fingers equals zero, wedding bands excluded.

    I’m a little scared that Father Time is sitting on DLees coat tails. His defense often resorts to hacking a guy after he’s blown by him, and his shot hasn’t returned to its old level- yet. Just don’t feel great about him but I’m not ready to give up. Need to keep working him into the scheme of things.

    I think everyone on this blog realizes deep inside that the Ws are no juggernaut who are just going to roll to the title. Games like last nites are a bit sobering and a wake-up call for 44-11…

    I gotta say Shumperts hair is kinda nifty. Makes him look 6-8′. And anything that helps take away an opponents view of the rim and floor can only help. Maybe Steph and Klay should go Kid n Play too.

    I do like Kerrs demeanor. There seems to be some East coast bias on foul calls in general. And let’s save Boguts injection for the playoffs. The warriors hung fairly tough last night from what I saw and tonights game will be another mini bench-mark contest in this “endless summer” tail end of the season.

    • Just looked at the box. Lee 8-11. That’s encouraging. But most of these makes must have come in the first 3/5s of the game becuz I just don’t recall them…

  5. I’ve got some philosophy for you Rgg, tho it’s not deep. For the last 5 yrs my niece has given me a page-a-day desktop calendar for Xmas. It started as a joke with a “cute cat” per day photo ( I’m not a cat guy) and morphed into cool foriegn language word helpers. This year she gave me a thought-for-the-day one and I’ve gotten over my initial disappointment to really like it. Yesterday’s quote:

    “I am not a pessimist; to perceive evil where it exists is, in my opinion a form of optimism.”

    -Roberto Rossellini

    sub in “any Warrior shortcoming” for “evil”‘ and voila!

    • Because it helps us appreciate the things that are good and strong. This is a philosopher I can live with, rzzz. Thanks!

  6. I just don’t see how this lineup will work. Last year @Miami, Lee scored 32 points and got 14 boards and 3 assists. He started 1st. and 3rd. quarters, and closed out the game with Green, Klay, Steph, and Iguodala. Not as big a game from Lebron, but he got good scoring from the others. A good game for Steph—in part because Lee helped open up the court?

    Look at the gameflow, and you’ll see they had this game in hand all the way, even with that bench. (Heavy minutes for Curry.)

    Compare with the gameflow last night (look at this, rzz, and you’ll see what Lee did first half):

    Just look at that line graph in the middle.

  7. Same question as yesterday, Feltbot et al. (no one goes back):

    How do the Cavs match up with the Heat teams the previous seasons, assuming full strength Lebron? On paper they look better with better players down the roster, though they are odd pieces and I don’t know how they fit together. Certainly a better center, a huge upgrade, and a better though problematic PG. I don’t see how they offset the diminished Wade, however. Bosh over Love, though both were/are underutilized. I don’t know what to make of Love watching him play for this team.

    • I didnt see the first 2 1/2 qts, but i barely noticed Love except when someone was blowing by him. Lookin more and more like his halcyon days were in Minn, tho I think you’d still have to swap Dlee for some Lovin’. Lee won’t hit 8 3s in a game anytime soon, I wouldn’t think.

  8. Rgg and Hat, hate to bring this up again but your guys banter yesterday made me reminisce about the past. My older brother was the first person I remember getting access to the internet. Actually he was the first person I can recall getting a computer, and I wanna say it was cerca 1984, which would be strangely appropriate, but it may have been earlier. Very few youngsters knew what the Net even was and that a real sea change was starting. My brothers’ computer was a monster that one of his many girlfriends gave him as a token of true love. It may have had an “86” processor(?), which was followed up by the now ancient 286. Regardless, she also gave him a thick manual and huge box that included whatever was necessary to get online. The service provider was Prodigy Internet, I believe they may have eventually morphed into/been acquired by the one-time internet kingpin America Online. The net back then literally crawled, and was just walls of text, no graphics or good stuff like porn and youtbe. Playboy and Penthouse were still very relevant to young men. Of course when my bro wasn’t home me and my younger sibling found our way into this vast new world. Chat rooms were the great-grandparents of blogs and multiple people could leave live comments line by line. I really don’t know why but I remember I ended up in a chat room for people of Asian descent (I’m Anglo). There wasn’t nearly as much goin on on the Web back then as there is now so maybe that’s why. After a couple of weeks of chatting I guess I got bored and, at my younger brothers urging (he was often my cohort in stuff like this) I started to leave some off-color comments. This isn’t very PC but I recall asking a girl if she liked Cream of Sum Yung Gai soup. That got a LOL from one chatter and me and my brother looked at eachother and pondered that over. This was before IMHO, BTW and all these acronyms became actual “words” and we wondered if it was Chinese or some other language. But I quickly learned that my little quips weren’t appreciated by all and soon it was WWIII, the whole chat room vs. me and my brother. I rushed home from school and would log on (it took about two minutes thru the phone lines!) and for about a week would do battle. I got pretty worked up and finally had to just get the last word in by leaving one last insult for all my ‘friends” and permanently leaving that site. Shades of Longtimer, maybe.
    Another thing we enjoyed was calling into KQED when they held their live fundraisers on TV. You could kinda gauge which person in the background was taking your call. You’d give em a fake name and bid (incrdibly they didn’t seem to verify this stuff in the 70’s) and they’d announce the winners name on live TV. So there were a lot of “Dick Tinkie”s and “Ben Dover”s with winning bids. Or else we’d just blast ‘em til they hung up in disgust! We were just mischievous kids tho.
    The good ol’days, IMHO

  9. depending on how/where from you look at that game, you can see black and blue or gold and white.
    me? i, being biased, just saw an ugly one.

    • I saw coach Kerr playing PnR with Bogut, a ghastly PnR partner.

      I saw coach Kerr resorting to his comfort zone, the triangle offense, presumably overriding coach Gentry. Gentry knows better than to do that with this crew, Kerr showed that he doesn’t.

      I saw Lee played to best advantage for a few minutes, then Kerr stuffing him back into the triangle to wave the ball around over his head waiting for someone to get open. Hey, coach. Put Lee in motion, don’t make him just friggin stand there. That’s stupid. Have you ever even MET David Lee?

      I saw Harrison Friggin Barnes, one of the dumbest defenders on the team, assigned to guard King James for much of the game – when the Ws could have assigned a brilliant defender on him instead. If only Kerr had been flexible enough to play “position-less” basketball, and not insist on keeping Green playing as a “big.” Pointless, hide-bound, stupid, and unnecessary. It’s not as if the Ws don’t have other bigs to fill in for Green. I thought Kerr might show some flexibility, but not last night.

      I saw a slow, undersized Iggy “filling in” for Barnes to try to stop James. Too late, James had already lit up Barnes for 3 quarters, and wasn’t going to let an old slow 6’6″ guy stop him from shooting 3s. Iggy did largely eliminate LBJ’s drives (Barnes didn’t), but didn’t close out on his 3s at all well.

      I saw a team that forgot how to create shots for Curry and Thompson. Result: predictable.

      Yeah, that was a Kerr loss.

      • obviously a relief for all concerned, participants and observers, when the preacher and staff were replaced by focused, driven, up to date professionals. kerr himself has joked that the players have made him look good. green is a prominent example, and kerr’s improvement in his use has been more quantitative and qualitative. the lesser jackson had green behind barnes and speights in his rotation until bogut and lee were sidelined, and we’ll never know how kerr would employ green if lee had stayed healthy from the preseason through the last sixty games. in his fashion kerr has biases with green as the preacher seemed to, and now looks reluctant to dole a share of green’s time at the four (for a change of pace point center he’s a useful option) to his elders, lee or speights.

  10. Da future:

    “Lacob’s son, Kirk, oversees analytics as assistant GM. Golden State employs the expertise of Silicon Valley to make sense of the massive data set provided by SportVU camera tracking (the Warriors were one of the first six teams to pay for SportVU), relying on local startup MOCAP Analytics. Despite Golden State’s investment, a handful of sources around the league expressed skepticism that the Warriors have gleaned as much from SportVU data as they have publicly claimed.”!nba

  11. Steppin’ out but wanna comment at the half

    Great intensity on D. Draymond contributes in every regard, lots of intangibles that don’t show up in the box score. Andrew holding down the pivot and Buckets is the good Mo tonight. Torontos a good but not great team

    One small but significant thing I noticed that peeved me. Dubs get the change of possession rebound and Leandro has the ball on the Warriors side of the court with 24 secs left in the first. He decides to immediately go one on three with a wild heave. Luckily Vasquez misses the 3 on the other end

    Seeing JMagloire behind the raps bench reminded me of the guy behind the Cavs bench last nite whose name I couldn’t place and it kinda drove me nuts. But it came to me tonite right away. James Posey! Xavier product, I believe, who became an NBA contributor for some winners.

    • You saw how the Warriors have been able to win so many games this season against good teams, maybe on an off night or missing a starter, and against lesser teams. Harassing them on defense, setting up fast break points, building an offensive rhythm and stifling the rhythm of their opponents, leading to a insurmountable lead. They don’t need many scorers to do this. Not complaining, of course, but it won’t help them in the playoffs.

      The second unit is just incoherent. Again. Only in part because they tried to get the bench players going, who didn’t. Mo did a Curly Howard* impersonation. Kind of sorry Ezeli didn’t connect on his shot to Hansbrough. (Not serious). (Well, a little bit.)

      * Curly Howard, of the Three Stooges, was Jewish! Born Jerome Lester Horwitz. I never knew that. “He was a mediocre student but excelled as an athlete on the school basketball team.” (from Wiki-p)

  12. Was the Festus outbreak on Hansborgh part of the previous Green clash?

  13. Was that the “triangle elements” Kerr ran in the 2nd half when DLee was in the game? I saw 2 nice SL-DLee P&R.

  14. Do you remeber those KQED auctions rgg? You may have witnessed some of our malfeasance….
    I thought Mo was Jewish. Curly was a pretty deft performer and I could see his 5.11 ‘ 260lb frame bowling thru the lane as a PG warrior PG. But his HS team probably wasn’t Mater-Dei. I just watched the episode where therye high-rise iron workers and curly Tosses the red hot rivet in the cEOs pants. My nieces wer laughing but they don’t fully appreciate the genius

    Im bummed out i missed the second half. I was texted about PscychoT v Festivus “Round 1” but it wasn’t the Thrilla in Manila II. And the 90-50 score. I had to put on my glasses and double-check that
    Still think this team can reach 65 wins. Someone else here made that call a while ago so premature props on that.
    If youre rumbling and grumbling ,chant “90to50” over and over until asleep
    thnx for the tip on the Sedaris guys stuff, Blood and donuts. My female friend raves about Amy S, but I tend to disregard her literary recommendations. Just see alot of “OK” magazines and “People’ in her place.

    • You missed the second half. Mo look sharp with his shots the first, but second half he really make a lot of stoogish mistakes. But this offense makes a lot of players look bad.

      • Mo has gained weight again, he’s out of shape. 5-6 min. at a time, then he’s gassed. Clumsy, slow and stupid.

        Not sure how you manage to lose fitness during an NBA season, but there it is.

  15. I saw some better spacing on a couple of PNRs too. Made Livingston look serviceable for a minute.

    I actually remember the game late last season when the dubs played bklyn and livingston tore the dubs up. Betcha 5 bucks thats when lacob or whoever saw him and said “i want him on my team”

    With that in mind, i hope he was in Indy and saw stuckey. With that dude coming off the bench the dubs would be hard to outscore.

    Finally, if anyone speaks portuguese and walks by the dubs bench at the next home game, tell leandro to effing show barnes how to drive hard left to the rack. Jesus christ man youre 6’8 and 23 years old. Drive, only good things happen!

    • Livingston ran the Nets out of the low post, if I understand Feltbot. If so, let him do that again. Anything is better than what that unit does now.

    • Livingston ran quite a bit of PNR for the Nets. It’s where he’s at his best.

      Last night, near the very end of the fourth quarter, with the Warriors stuck on 2 points for the last 10 minutes, I saw Livingston and Lee run a pick and roll in which Livingston actually passed Lee the ball.

      It was a thing of beauty.

    • You have to wonder if the Warriors wouldn’t have done better had they simply kept Steve Blake, and they would have saved some $4m for someone else. You have to say Blake is a serviceable backup PG, as he is averaging 20 minutes, about 4 assists, with a top western team. He does have a so-so outside shot and veteran experience.

      Blake’s problem—and the Warriors’ this season and last—is they don’t have good two-way backups at the 2 and 3, other active scorers. This season the 2 is Barbosa, the 3 Iguodala, a sketchy scorer. Last season, I’ve already forgotten the backup 2’s name, as has the NBA, and HB, of course, was the backup 3. Had they kept Bazemore, they might have had a good 2, but Bazemore was part of the Blake deal.

      Myers to the rescue! Of course they could have done better than Blake.

      • As I understand it blake is a walk it up guy, not a run n gun guy. Lots of little guys they could have had, who can run, handle the ball and also get you buckets and get to the line…

        Isaiah thomas, brian roberts, dj augustin, stuckey…hell, nate robinson! ( or as we call him in our house, shorty doowop). GM felt also poimted out canaan…

  16. I’m pretty sure we’ve all formed pictures of what we look like based on our words here. I’m also pretty sure this isn’t a conversation we should have, though if we did I’d bet we’d be dead wrong.

    For a long time I didn’t know what sports announcers looked like. I didn’t have a TV, was in grad school, broke, and had a reputation to protect. But many announcers didn’t appear on TV anyway (late ’70s, early ’80s). So it was years before I found out what Bill King and Lon Simmons looked like—I listened to their A’s broadcasts on the radio. Just imagine. The biggest surprise was Pete Franklin. What a voice—but I looked him up and he didn’t look like anyone.

    This one is innocent and a little hopeful. I’d listen to Rod Brooks and Rick Barry on KNBR driving my son home from school. Rod’s analysis isn’t very good, but he’s hip and I like him. For some reason I thought he was a really cool white guy. There must have been a bleaching effect from his presence with Barry.

    Bill King deserves all the respect in the world, but I wasn’t a big fan. I did like his radio broadcasts of Warriors games, however, where I think he was most in his element. He announced with pace and an aggressive edge just right for the game. “That was a terrible call!”—I can still hear his voice and miss it today.

    I did see Blue Moon Odom and Harmless Harm do A’s TV. Those guys were a hoot.

    But the most sublimely horrible announcers were Red Rush and Dom Valentino for the A’s, whose talents were commensurate with the team’s at the time. I have a comparison that probably only five people in the world might get (there just aren’t many Flaubert and A’s fans). If Bouvard and Pechuchet (from Flaubert’s novel of the same name) had tried their hand at announcing, that’s what they would have been like.

    • Never conflate an artist with his art.

      A radio sports announcer’s “art” is his voice, phrasing, delivery, and shared knowledge. He could deliver a wonderfully entertaining experience while looking like your grandma.

      I met John “Cougar” Mellencamp once, after a concert. Artistically a nice Midwestern boy with a big, warm, generous heart. In person, a dink who terrified his band members and treated people like shit.

      Artists are not their art.

      • your generalization is probably more applicable to performers, rather than ‘artists’ as an entire category of proficient humanoids.

        my appreciation of a wide range of composers, writers, painters, film directors deepens with understanding a bit about who they are. you can dismiss it as sheer ignorance on my part, but part of the freedom of art is in how we partake of it and expand our understanding and compassion.

        • Actually, moto, all artists have lives completely independent and separate from their art. As often as we might learn to appreciate an artwork more fully by understanding the artist better, just as often we won’t, we don’t, we can’t.

          Sometimes that’s because the artist is unintelligible outside his medium. He can’t coherently TELL you anything important about himself except through his art.

          And the question “Where did that come from” is almost always unanswerable. In fact, I’d argue that it should always be. Inspiration is a gift from the cosmos. If you could explain where it came from, it’s not inspired.

          • What if inspiration came from the way a cloud moved across the sky or the way the Warriors passed the ball that one time last night about 6-7 times before sinking it? That’s naming inspiration.

            Sorry to hear JCM was a shit. He put on the best shows though! Hard to believe his band could play so in synch with him if they were terrorized.

          • The *spark* is God’s touch or it’s madness, a leprechaun’s gift or simply magic. It comes from some mysterious place we might find by watching a cloud or a Curry walk-up 3. But it isn’t the cloud, or the 3. If it were, we’d all be artists.

            I like Mellencamp’s music, and listen to it to this day. John was out-of-sorts the day I met him, but maybe not always. I’d buy another Mellencamp album. I just wouldn’t buy him lunch.

          • Semantics. Art is nothing more than the craft of translating the mystery and everything is the mystery, including that walk up three. For me anyway.

          • Yes, we can find art anywhere, accidentally, oddly, in surprising ways. But while an artist is a craftsman, not all cratsmen are artists.

          • Sorry for beating a dead thread, but:

            – Curry is an artist, Thompson a superb technician.
            – Picasso v. Picasso-like.
            – Sergio Leone directing Eastwood v. Eastwood directing.
            – Hendrix v. Malmsteen.
            – Poe/Shelly/Lovecraft/Ellison/Sturgeon v. Steven King.

            “90% of everything is crap.” – Sturgeon’s Law. It’s still true.

          • Well said, hat.

  17. King sounded like a real interesting guy. Underrated and now largely forgotten. I do like Brooks, but Fitz can just be a little pud. I was watching some tape of last nights game and jimB mentioned Oscar Robertson and some scoring stat involving 3s. Barnetts a great announcer with great stories but every now and then he gets a little mixed up or tongue-tied. So fits has to point out the obvious and school JB that there wiz no 3 pt line, as if Jim needed his help. But Barnett always gracious

    Those shots where they show Fitz and JB seated together ear-to-ear where Fitz always grabs Jim’s arm to make a point make me wonder how high the hi-chair is that the drag out for Fitz!
    Nice weekend all

  18. On the combined subject of announcers and assholes, I didn’t grow up in the Bay Area. I grew up in L.A., and listened to Chick Hearn throughout the Lakers’ Showtime era. It took Chick a long time to even accept having a sidekick during games — apparently, the first was Al (“Do you believe in miracles?”) Michaels, whom Chick had fired within a few weeks.

    By the time I was listening, his sidekick was Keith Erickson, who was very engaging but generally knew his place. One time in the mid-80s, however, Magic Johnson was at the foul line late in a close game, and missed the first free throw. Chick said, “He won’t miss the second, I promise you that!” — then added (presumably to someone else at the press table), “If he he misses it, I’ll buy you dinner.

    Erickson quipped, “Who are you talking to?“, and Chick immediately fired back, “All of you! All 17,505 of you!” (referring to the capacity of the sold-out Inglewood Forum).

    Pause. Clank.

    Erickson: “Where are we eating?”

    Erickson continued to razz Chick about that moment from time to time for the rest of the season. Coincidentally or not, he was gone the next year.

    • Great intoductory sentence and cool story.

      Were you a Laker fan who morphed into a Dubs fan? (You are a Warriors fan, right?) No prob with that, but it always blows me a way a bit when someone can just move somewhere and adopt a new team as there favorite. I could move anywhere in the world but would still fret exclusively over the Wubs, Giants, and 9ers , without feeling squat over any other team. ‘Cept hatred, of course, for the likes of the Lakers, Red Sox and Dodgers.

      BMW Oakland just called me and asked when im gonna return the leased vehicle. Only problem being I didn’t lease a vehicle and this whole affair is getting weirder and weirder and is putting a serious damper on my day. Gotta luv the inforamtion age, I guess.

      • Gawd. Are you involved in all this, Snowden? I take back what I said..
        Gotta clear this shit up.

      • I moved to Oakland in the mid-’90s. During the next few years, two things happened. First, after being a huge fan of the ’94-’95 team that Jerry West built entirely using draft picks (Van Exel, Eddie Jones, etc. – their upset of the Sonics was basically the equivalent of the “We Believe” year), I saw Lakers gradually trade away all of those players. Like any sensible fan, I had conditioned myself to hate Shaq… and then all of a sudden, he was a Laker. By the time Phil Jackson came on board, my emotional connection was essentially gone. (I remember looking at all of the former Eastern Conference players on the floor — Shaq, Horace Grant, Ron Harper, Brian Shaw–and thinking, where are the f—ing Lakers on this team?)

        Second, I got drawn into the human drama of the W’s post-Nellie debacle. (The first game I saw in Oakland, I saw Hardaway dribbling at the top of the key and Sprewell standing in the corner, glaring at him with his hands on his hips–basically telling the world, “I don’t want anything to do with this play.”) Seeing them hit bottom, it was only natural to want to see them make it back up, as the Lakers did after Magic retired. I think the conversion was official when I attended the game where Jamison and Kobe each scored 50 and, laughing at myself, joined for the 1st time in a chant of “Beat L.A.!”

        I live in Chicago now, but based on my post-L.A. experience I’ll be a W’s fan at least as long as they keep the core of this team together (or perhaps longer — I’ve been here four years, and still don’t have much feeling for the Bulls).

        • Youre a true convert. The Ws are a fun team to watch.
          All the player movement just a sign of the times now. One of the reasons I like the current Giants team is all the home grown flavor.
          But going from the Lakers to Dubs is pretty rare, I would think.

          • I definitely learned that I prefer home-grown teams as well. And that a team on the rise — suddenly playing better than anyone expected before the season — is the best thing a fan can experience.

            W’s fans really need to savor what’s happening right now. After this year, there will be expectations, and it won’t be quite the same thrill.

          • The ” beat LA” chant is a serious SF thing. A religious mantra. Glad you could partake. I was at a Dodgers-Giants nite game eons ago at the Stick where then-Dodger Reggie Smith tried to get into the stands to take on hecklers, some of whom were me and my friends. Remember tossing peanuts at him as he was restrained at the railing. Then the chant..
            I think it is extremely rare for aSan Fran or Warrior fan to become an LA team aficcionado. But possible, for the soulless.

      • did the car dealer possess all of your license, d.o.b., residence data ? not a good sign — and who’s been paying for the lease thus far. the secret behind all the ‘beemers’ you see around, their popularity as a lease car. and a fair portion of the folks who lease ’em would never buy one, because they know the painful maintenance costs that come after the warranties expire, with the leased cars always covered.

        you’re an SF resident, so your chauvinistic preferences are understandable with the sports teams. oaklander myself, longtime gigantes beisbol observer who gave up when they went ueber-corporate. the fan base became obnoxious coinciding with that, to my tastes anyway. plenty of my favorites wore their uniform, but none on the present squad, and never liked bochy — he’s been extremely fortunate to be in the right place (both places where he’s found success are extreme pitcher’s venues) and time.

        • Thanks Moto. I’m waiting for a call back right now.

          Whats baffling about all this is my phone is on my work plan and not in my name. The lady called me and asked for me by name. I can’t fathom how she or anyway could get my # or this info except thru malfeasance. Theres only one possible breach and its through the company issued credit card, which is in my name and the biz, and of course has my cell # and all relevant data. Scary stuff but there are some real scumbags out there, but at least they now know its not actually me with the car.
          This days been a wash for me and I’ll just be happy if all this gets more or less cleared up today.

          • before you toss gratuitous epithets toward oaktown, is this an authorized bmw dealer you refer to, or another auto leasing business.

            oakland, CA does not have an authorized bmw dealer. the dealer that claims the territory, which might have a satellite office in its lower rent neighbor, is weatherford bmw in berserkley. they have a pretty shabby reputation for a so-called prestige brand.

            good luck on your fraud hunt. my personal credit card companies have never contested my refusal for any of the bogus charges that came up on their statements. one such bogus charge was from a security firm that sells credit and identity theft protection services. see if the car dealer bothered to take a photocopy of their customer’s license or other documentation, and the common means of putting a deposit are check or credit card, which would also tell them you’re not their guy.

          • Moto
            100% no dig at Oaktown. Can see how it could be taken that way, from my hissy-fit.
            The calls came in on my phone from “BMW Oakland” This whole thing got Kafkaesque and they stopped answering my questions on the phone becuz they thought (I believe)i was a scammer and not the scammee. And I didnt cross the bridge becuz i called back and demanded the jefes home number. Supposedly this all will be resolved Mon..
            They undeniably have my personal info.

        • Agree with many of your beisbol pensamientos, not so much on Boch, but as a native, winning three titles is the bottom line. Meaningless in the greater scope of things but f’n incredible in my life and circle.

          Its always about the journey, but the destination ain’t bad!

          • Increidblle. I have to go to fucking Oakland to deal with these morons. Its either fraud or theyre just stupid status whoring cretins. Sorry but i”m pissed

          • This probably goes without saying, rzz, but I hope you don’t go anywhere that’s not a legit business. The whole thing sounds like a scam at best. And moto’s right. There is no such thing as BMW Oakland.

          • I didn’t go anywhere and don’t believe I’ve ever been in a BMW dealership in my life. This “company” manages shirt term high end leases thru east bay car dealerships. They called me on my unlisted number and shut down when I started grilling them. At this point I would just like to know why I have an “acct” with them. Bizarre and it’s gnawing at me.
            Sorry for ending the thread that way. It was a gratuitous jibe at humanity, not Oaklanders.

  19. All time greatest broadcasting duo imo was Ralph Lawlor and Bill Walton. It didn’t matter how bad the Clippers were. In fact, that made it better. Lawlor knew where every one of Walton’s buttons were located, and just when to push them. Bliss.

    Also loved Papa doing RunTMC with Barnett, and yearn for his return.

  20. Dilettante of the day, Goldsberry at the Sloan conference:

    “Goldsberry referenced Immanuel Kant, Javier Bardem & Grover Cleveland AND he called Harden a “basketball practitioner” which makes me laugh”

    from a tweet at ESPN

    • Drays not just blowing smoke there. Great yapping!

      • I remember the recent Clips game Dray yapping and flapping back and forth with Chris Paul. The interviewer asked Paul what it was all about. Paul took a deep breath, let it out, shook his head, and said “God only knows”.

  21. Feltbot,

    what’s your opinion of Carmelo? Personally, I think he’s one of the most overrated players in the league but wanted your take…….

  22. Ezeli suspended one game—no surprise. What surprises me is that Kerr didn’t play him sooner when there were so many opportunities. A lot of his substitutions feel like nervous fidgeting.

    And he could have filled in for Bogut. Bogut hasn’t looked good many games recently, especially as the games wore on. He could have gotten total rest for many days. Not sure that would have made a difference for his health, though.

  23. One thing we’ll never get a chance to see:

    “Once upon a time, before he attended Stanford business school or became a partner in a venture capital firm, Joe Lacob dreamt of being a sport radio host. He even went so far, after purchasing the Golden State Warriors for $450 million with Peter Guber in 2010, as to suggest his own weekly show on a local San Francisco station, but the Warriors media relations staff talked him out of it. Too risky, they said. Too much can go wrong.”

    One thing we have to look forward to:

    “This is a longtime thing for me. This is my second career. I’ve got my son involved and will probably get another son involved…I have a very long-term view.”

    More here:

    • What a jackass.

      • in a few brief paragraphs, lacob managed to pass off a tightly packed bundle of revisionism and concealment. believing him, you’d never know he fired nelson before his ownership was fully approved by stern’s crew and the other team owners, and be convinced the lock out was a complete shock to the owners who either precipitated or backed it. but writing bad stuff about him, how he’s a confidence artist and aspires to establish a grand dynasty, makes me a bad person.

    • Does he truly consider Barnes a successful draft pick? Part of the core? Have none of his basketball people ever talked straight with him? Or is this what Schlenk meant when he said he talks to Joe differently than everyone else?

      As for the rest…

      • 45-11!

        His answer to the biggest basketball mistake he made he decided wasn’t a mistake at all—amnestying Bell.

      • lacob listed barnes when he named the team’s core of its own draft picks. and he stuck in a sales pitch, it would take a lot for us not to sign (them) — green and barnes clearly the players still on their first deals.

      • The evidence is overwhelming, Feltbot. I don’t understand why you question it. In 2011, before the Barnes draft, the team only won 23 games. Barnes’ rookie season they doubled the wins to 47. Even though he had a sophomore slump the next season, they went on to win 51. And this season, now that’s he’s returned to form, they are approaching 60 wins. That’s a straight line of success.

      • It’s surprising that Lacob can’t seem to let go of the investment he made in Barnes, i.e., the Ws tank season under Jackson. It seems Lacob still wants to recover something from it.

        The strange thing is that Lacob doesn’t even need Barnes to be a star, but he still continues to insist on it, now to the detriment of his organization. The Ws are on track to become a $multi-billion franchise, and no one remembers the lost season.

        Barnes isn’t a washout, he’s a mid-level asset. Attempting to “position” him as more than that is unrealistic to the point of psychosis, and it could actually prevent his team from being the best they could be.

      • Yea, I’m a afraid he does. But will he continue to in the face of no All Star consideration?

  24. This one’s for rzz, but I suspect FB will get a kick, too:

    They’re from an archive of photos of tattoos on Russian prisoners. Study the pictures, read the text.

    • Cf NBA tattoos:

      Curry was writing his senior thesis on how tattoos affect NBA players’ image. I hope he finished it and got his degree.

      • at the time of curry’s draft, his father explained their lack of interest in lacob’s team by sharing their perception that the woeyr squad had some questionable personalities. a season later, lacob tried to place nelson into that category (highly doubtful that the senior curry, whose career significantly overlapped nelson’s, was referring to the coach at all). if we look at the player’s tattoos and their overall playing personas, jackson and the great ellis were the leading ‘personalities’ on the woeyr squad at the time of curry’s draft. ellis has a specific tattoo, obscured because his arms were heavily covered after he signed mullins’ big contract, that pays homage to a crips-affiliate gang.

    • Not sure if I should feel complemented, but I have to admit I’ve browsed books like this for hours, back when there were actual bookstores. Nothing like the sacred trinity of murder, rape, and religion

      • Your interest in Crumb led to the mention. These are just fascinating, as are the NBA tatoos, and extraordinary works of art. You get an inverse picture of Russian culture and society in the first case. Or maybe a direct one.

    • Thought-provoking.

      — Men incarcerated in the gulag have no art to view,except that which is inked on their bodies.

      — Violent criminals view the world as violent and criminal. A parallel universe, or a version of the truth?

      — Even those who despise hierarchies and the watchtower create their own, complete with epaulets and warnings.

    • You have to somwewhat respect a guy who can function in a bleak version of violent reality thats pretty much a nightmare.

      An American take on the ‘one-percenter’ is a book called “Under and Alone”, by William Queen. Its well worth reading. Queen infiltirated the Mongols motorcycle gang, getting patched in (I believe the only Law enforcement guy to actually achieve this, and the book makes it clear why its so hard), and barely escaped with his life. A violent true life tales with incidents of (but also insite) into pyschopathic behaviour

  25. Nothing earth-shattering here but Jenkins writes in the Cavs for the finals. A mention of that inspirational ball movement you astutely referenced too, Mary

    • Jenkins a typical example of the herd mentality of sportswriters. Cavs on a streak. Hawks recently “tested” (ie. took some games off). Ergo, blah blah blah.

      The Hawks will pose a significant challenge to the Cavs, whose chemistry will not be anything close to the Hawks by playoff time. Unlike the Warriors as currently constructed, the Hawks have a rugged defensive stopper to start on LeBron, as well as one off the bench who’s been out a while (Sefolosha).

      Homecourt advantage. Chemistry. Bench depth. Horford against Mozgov. Can Love guard Millsap? Budenholzer against a rookie. I think you’d have to be nuts to bet the Cavs over the Hawks in the playoffs. I have no idea how to handicap it, except to say that anyone predicting the Cavs is foolish.

  26. I like Jenkins. Hes been around a while and has some good stories when they give him enough rope. For example, this one on a tennis player I had never heard of:

    But I’ll stop linking to him unless its exceptional

    • I loved his Joe Lacob rant after the Mark Jackson firing. He got the basketball wrong, but some home truths on the psychological front.

  27. Bahston:

    I don’t know the Boston roster well, but they have a lot of quick, versatile players all the way down, who, while obviously not great shooters, can dribble, drive, and create shots for themselves and others. Quick guards who can shoot and drive. A two-way center. A comparison is invited.

    Stevens must be a good coach in his ability to bring the guys together after so many changes—did I hear 40 different players this season? Isn’t he worried about chemistry?

    Kerr’s solution was to overplay Klay and Steph, 38 minutes each.

    The problem isn’t that they were cold the first quarter. The problem was they couldn’t find other offense to get the team going and take pressure off the guards. No front court scoring. No penetrators/creators at the 3. Barnes and Green can’t drive. Bogut can’t even take on a beanpole.

    And playing Bogut made no sense. Zeller got his shots against him inside and out. On defense, when Bogut played out, Zeller didn’t get within 10 feet.

    Think Lee can’t move and score against this team?

    • And 44 minutes from Green

      • they don’t win without those 44 min. the troika pulling the comeback sled were curry, green, iguodala. it didn’t really coalesce before green took over as center. thompson was on the bench during its initial phase, livingston and holiday playing, which made one guard + four wings on the court.

    • 46-11!

      • Lol. Mary is reminding us that there is pleasure to be taken along the road. In the long run, we’re all dead.

        • Can’t we die without going down 26 points against the likes of Boston?

          • The pleasure is 26 times greater.

            I just finished watching a bit ago. I had to unsubscribe until I finished because I knew win or lose, rgg would be upset and post. Tell me you allowed yourself a fist pump at the end, rgg. Or a least a fleeting smile.

          • No, I rolled my eyes and exhaled audibly. À chacun son goût.

  28. I did text my brother during this game that they could come back, while not fully believing it myself..

    Moto, I got phished hard in this BMW scam and my boss just verified this
    thru Should have put the dots together a little quicker. But they were pretty good, and I’ve never gotten a call like this on my #.
    The call wasn’t from Oakland. Think this horse has been beaten to death now.

  29. Got to love the mainstream press calling
    the guy who beheaded people as ” Jahad
    John” given the fact that he most
    likely went to Syria from the UK in 2012
    to try to topple the Syrian government
    because the UK were clandestinely sending
    mercenaries there to do so. And given he
    a degree in computer science he would be
    a perfect guy to send there.

  30. Didn’t care much for Kerrs comments about Iguodala after the game. He again mentioned he’s not starting anymore. Is that really necessary? If asked, can’t he simply say something like Iguodala is a great player and an essential part of our success? And leave out the non- starting part? I mean why grind it in and in public no less.

    • I think Kerr meant that Iggy is a team leader. The team he leads is the 2nd unit, an essential role. Unsaid was why that is necessary. Kerr doesn’t discuss the shortcomings of players or the FO.

  31. Lacob on Barnes:

    “Harrison Barnes didn’t have a great year last year by I’m sure his own admission for a variety of reasons. But look what’s happened–he’s been incredibly efficient and playing a great brand of basketball.”

    Lacob really thinks that way. The good people at the Sloan conference think that way. They give talks on statistical efficiency and branding. Some years back, one presenter said a player’s brand is as important as his talent—I listened to about 5 minutes of her talk.

    If one were prone to suspicion, and of course I am, one might think Lacob has dictated Barnes’ play this season to improve his brand. Play him with the starters to hide his weaknesses. Only give him open shots to give him good % for the stats. And see if you can get him an open lane to make a YouTube dunk. Even if no such directive were given (I don’t believe it), his play has led to those results. Then, of course, there are the ads.

    And Barnes’ brand is part of the Golden State Warrior brand. How many times did MJax say “Warrior brand of basketball” last season? Think those are the words of a preacher?

    To paraphrase Marshall McLuhan, the brand is the message.

    • The average length of an NBA career is 4.8 years, average salary $5.2 million in salary, plus whatever endorsements come up. Yes, to a $PROFESSIONAL$ ball player, branding is vitally important. That doesn’t diminish Barnes’ contribution on the court, and he is making a contribution. So what if Barnes is aware/sensitive about his income potential? He’s not an amateur, this is a business.

  32. Where I fell down the rabbit hole with publishing today (cf. @ 32):

    This is a hatchet job by a hack, but a lot of what he says is representative of what is happening in the publishing industry and lit today in general. I try to keep up with trends, talk to agents, etc., and the news is bad. What upsets me is that FSG used to be one of the strongest supporters of more demanding, less conventional writing. No more.

  33. cosmicballoon

    Not to throw more fuel on Feltbot’s fire, but here it goes:

    I was talking to someone who knows James McAdoo decently well. Here’s the plan for McAdoo.

    a) Release David Lee at the end of this season in order to resign Green and Barnes. (I’m sure the Warriors shopped Lee at the deadline….no takers)

    b) McAdoo has been shooting nothing but 3 pointers during practice, both for the Santa Cruz Warriors earlier in the season, and now for GS. He signed a 2 year contract with the Warriors after his 10 day contracts were all up (not a 1-year contract as was reported in several places). He will make $845K next season according to Basketball Reference.

    c) McAdoo will supplant Lee as the backup PF next season. He is a more athletic defender than Lee and can probably play stretch 4 or stretch 5 if his shot comes all the way around. What I have heard is that McAdoo’s shot is a bit mechanical and slow, but that he is practicing it daily. McAdoo is also a high-character player and fits in with the Warriors “brand.”

    It’s no mystery that DLee is not playing a prominent role any longer. If he starts putting up double doubles, the FO has no choice but to keep him around — and Lacob (and clearly Kerr) have not played him in the correct system for a reason. This MAY cost the Warriors playoff wins. Only time will tell.

    • Whoever you talked to may know McAdoo, but he or she doesn’t know the salary cap rules, because (a) cannot be correct. The Warriors owe Lee’s salary next year even if he’s released. (And any extension for Barnes wouldn’t take effect until 2016, when Lee’s contract expires on its own.

    • How do the Warriors simply “release” David Lee? I doubt they intend to buy him out — Lacob doesn’t spend that kind of money. Which means they need a trading partner.

      No doubt you’re correct about the Warriors desire to groom McAdoo, but I’m skeptical about their ability to teach him to shoot within a year. They’ve had multiple similar projects — Nedovic, Lin, Ish Smith, Tyler… it’s not easy to teach non-shooters to shoot.

      I also remain extremely skeptical that 1) Joe Lacob views Draymond Green as a four; or 2) Green doesn’t believe he can play three, and wouldn’t greatly prefer to play there.

      A saga is unfolding that is far more complicated than most in the media recognize.

      • I also remain extremely skeptical that 1) Joe Lacob views Draymond Green as a four; or 2) Green doesn’t believe he can play three, and wouldn’t greatly prefer to play there.

        … and, in other news, Linus continues to believe in the Great Pumpkin.

        Everybody, go ahead and mark this down as Feltbot’s worst analysis since “The Showcase.” And wrong for some of the same reasons.

        • Other team considerations aside, I would rather have Green than Barnes, if I had to choose a 3. I also think Greens optimum position is at the 3 for reasons I posted previously and a closing small ball 4.

        • The analysis is fine. It’s the prediction where he’s off, and he can hardly be faulted.

        • You’re confusing opinion with analysis. If Feltbot’s (or Marc’s, or anyone else’s) opinion is that Green is best suited for playing SF, that’s nice, and it’s certainly your right to have that opinion.

          The faulty analysis here is claiming that Lacob and Draymond himself share that opinion.

          Projecting one’s personal fantasies into other people’s heads is not good analysis.

          • Projecting the best lineup is fine analysis. Trying to get inside Lacob’s head is pure folly.

          • Is that what I’m doing, projecting an internal fantasy?

            1) There has never been, in NBA history, a player who could excel at the three who preferred to play the four. Not one. In NBA history.

            Draymond Green can not only excel at the three, he could be the best defensive three in the entire NBA. Teams would kill to make him their three. Will kill.

            2) Everything that Joe Lacob has ever said and done as owner/GM of the Warriors has indicated a desire to make the Warriors not only bigger, but a great rebounding team. Green at the four goes against those central tenets of his loudly vocalized philosophy.

            If you ask me, what I’m doing is not fantasizing, but making a couple of very simple inferences.

            Also, it is very dangerous to speculate that Lacob will choose to do what is best for his basketball team, particularly where the great Harrison Barnes is concerned, but it is a very simple truth that when you have a tweener who is capable of being the most dominant wing stopper in the NBA, the place where he can help your team the MOST, is at the three.

            My speculations about what the Warriors will do in the offseason have very little to do with Lee at this point. He’s pretty clearly a dead man walking. They have to do with keeping Green happy long term, making the Warriors the best team they can possibly be, and the possible, very interesting, disconnect between Kerr and his bosses.

          • I remember Myers saying more than once the Warriors like to be big at every position, hence the Barnes, Bogut, Livingston, and Nedo acquisitions (at the time Myers said Nedo was a 6-4 PG). Green at the 4 does not fit the bill. Is that concept still important to the Warriors Mgmt? The Livingston acquisition argues that it is, at least was at the beginning of the season.

    • It would be consistent, however, with the way this organization thinks. They would then have 3 undersized 4s, two without ability or experience.

      And it looks like my wish will not come true—a workable replacement for Barnes. I do like McAdoo’s aggressiveness, the little I’ve seen.

      • Looks like to me both DLee and MoS won’t be around next season.

        McAdoo can be an asset without a 3 shot. He fits in very well defensively and could back-up Ezeli and Green. He’s capable of scrapping and scoring around the rim.

        Isn’t Kantner a restricted free agent? And Ed Davis?

        • from my admittedly hazy and prejudiced understanding of the lacobite m.o., pursuing kanter with a competitive bid (after the extended previews they’ve given us of their budget ‘woes’) would seem way out of character.

          putting both holiday and mcadoo on guaranteed deals and expending the roster spots on them, particularly in mcadoo’s case since he’s very rarely even on the active list, might be a signal that their foray into free agent signings this summer will be quite modest. we’ll see if they keep the first round pick, which ties up guaranteed money unless stashed on an overseas player.

  34. Why is Bogut in the game with 1.1 seconds to go?

  35. Anderson seems a pretty good 3. 7 of 10 and D.

  36. I missed the first half—any feedback? Bogut scored more in the first half than he has in the previous 4 games. What happened? And it looks like he found someone he felt comfortable in taking on—Plumlee.

    Great use of Lee. Another breakout game by Barnes.

    • Bogut had some hops early. A dunk on a feed down the lane, a dunk on a lob feed, a few tip ins, and 1 or 2 of those scoop half hook shots. He appeared to tire after that. Bogut seems good for about 20 minutes a game, if he holds up physically. Encouraged about Ezeli. That monster Lopez can shoot the ball too.

      • But he couldn’t take on Zeller the previous game? Bogut seems to need to really load up to perform on offense. He hasn’t scored much at all the past two months, except in a few spurts. Not promising.

  37. I predict: Adam Lauridsen will find yet another way to blame the loss on Lee.

    • you’re kidding of course. we’ll see what position he takes on two other issues — will he critique thompson or rationalize about heavy usage, and will he question the coaching decisions in the late fourth quarter, which showed signs that success may have encouraged complacency in kerr.

    • He blasted Klay pretty good. Never mentioned Barnes and Greens recent scoring slumps.

      • depressing would be giving more relevance to the fan-approved, looking glass blog than it merits — it’s closer to the cheap wine at low budget receptions or show opening.

        green’s defense has made the team look better there than it should be, and he contributes handling, screens on offense (fairly instrumental in speights’ revival this season with his passing and would do the same for lee of course). the partisans are adept at ignoring how barnes is the weak link on both ends of the court among the top six in the rotation.

  38. Sacrilegious though fascinating stuff!

    “Christ, the historical Christ, was not crucified…He had no intention of dying in that manner but others felt that to fulfill the phropecies in all ways, a crucifixion was a necessity.

    Christ did not take part in it. There was a conspiracy in which Judas played a role, an attempt to make a martyr out of Christ. The man chosen was drugged- hence the necessity of helping him carry the cross(seeLuke 23)- and he was told that he was the Christ.
    He believed that he was. He was one of those deluded, but he also himself believed that he, not the historical Christ, was to fulfill the phropecies.

    Mary came because she was full of sorrow for the man who believed he was her son. Out of compassion she was present. The group responsible wanted it to appear that one particular portion of the Jews had crucified Christ, and never dreamed that the whole Jewish people would be “blamed”
    The tomb was empty because this same group carted the body away.
    Mary Magdalene did see Christ, however, immediately after(see Matthew 28). Christ was a great psychic he caused the wounds to appear then upon on His own body, and appeared both physically and in out-of body states to His followers. He tried, however, to explain what had happened, and His position, but those who were not in on the conspiracy would not understand, and misread His statements

    Peter three times denied The Lord (Matthew 26), saying he did not know Him, because he recognized that the person was not Christ

    The plea, “Peter, why hast thou forsaken me?” Came from the man who believed he was Christ- the drugged version. Judas pointed out that man. He knew of the conspiracy, and feared that the real Christ would be captured. Therefore he handed over to the authorities a man known to be a self-styled messiah- to save, not destroy, the life of the historical Christ.

    Symbolicly, however, the crucifixion idea itself embodied deep dilemmas and meanings of the human psyche, and so the crucifixion per se became a far greater reality than the actual physical events that occurred at the time
    Only the deluded are in danger of, or capable of, such self-sacrifice, you see, or find it necessary. Only those still bound up in ideas of crime and punishment would be attracted to that kind of religious drama, and find within it deep echoes of their own subjective feelings

    He ate to prove He was still alive, for example (john 21, Luke 24), but they took this simply to mean that the spirit could partake of food. They wanted to believe that He had been crucified and arisen. Eventually, His physical presence was no longer necessary, and was even an embarrassment under the circumstances. He simply willed Himself out of it”

    On a more important note, for me it’s a toss up on whether David Lee is being egregiously mishandled and under-utilized, or possibly just not that good a basketball player anymore

    • Really interesting rzz.

      I fall on the side DLee is incorrectly and under utilized after seeing recent P&R with both Curry and Livingston.

    • One of the more outstanding non sequiturs I’ve ever come across.

  39. GooseLosGatos

    Anyone think Thomas Robinson is an underrated (or as Hert West would say ‘undervalued’ player? He was stuck behind Altridge in Portland but I’m surprised how many teams have let him go. Is he a star no but has a lot of heart, aggressive rebounder and strong work ethic. I bet he’ll play in the league for 10+ years..

    Also, question for Feltbot… I know we’ve had our disagreements on Gilchrist but I’d put him way ahead of Barnes at this point – especially defensively and he shot is improving somewhat though he does present spacing problems. If the Barnes for MKG trade was in the table I wish we had pulled the trigger. How do you see MKG vs. Barnes?

    • I’ve noticed MKG make great strides this year — in the boxscore, I never watch them play. And you can chart Charlotte’s success by when he’s been in or out with injury. Obviously making an impact.

      I just don’t think he’s a championship wing until he can shoot the three. Kerr has benched David Lee because he believes he needs to stretch the floor around Bogut. Would MKG work for him?

      As for TRob — he’s undersized for an NBA four, without the ability to stretch the floor. A difficult combination to work with.

      • GooseLosGatos

        Felbot, thanks. If or when you do watch Charlotte play I’d appreciate your analysis of MKG. One of the reasons I root for him is he has a stutter as does my younger sister & it’s nice to see when people with a social affliction can ‘get ahead.’

  40. GooseLosGatos

    Apologizes for the poor grammar – wrote that on my IPhone and should have ‘proofed’ it.

  41. “Theogenes was the greatest of gladiators. He was a boxer who served under the patronage of a cruel nobleman, a prince who took great delight in bloody spectacles. Although this was several hundred years before the times of those most enlightened of men Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle, and well after the Minoans of Crete, it still remains a high point in the history of Western civilization and culture. It was the approximate time of Homer, the greatest poet who ever lived. Then, as now, violence, suffering, and the cheapness of life were the rule.”

    From Thom Jones, “The Pugilist at Rest,” a great, great short story, on my top 10 list.

    And I guess that’s my tribute to David Lee. rzzz got me started. It’s impossible to make anything of Lee’s season, the way he has been played. He’s only taking 7 shots a game as opposed to 14 last year, many of those out of position for unlikely hoops. Yet he’s still hitting at 50%.

    Lee detractors are given fuel for their assault. I wonder how potential trade teams will see his performance.

    He simply may be a case of a good player forced out because of the mysterious demands of the owner and his inability to fit into the system the coach desires. The mix of the two may has already caused problems and may prove to work more down the road.

    Closing lines:

    “If they fuck up the operation, I hope I get to keep my dogs somehow—maybe stay at my sister’s place. If they send me to the nuthouse I lose the dogs for sure.”

  42. Brian Shaw fired. Another Phil Jackson tree disaster. One of the most misbegotten hirings in NBA history. Completely destroyed the Nuggets franchise.

    As predicted here first.

    • Letting Ujiri and Karl go was completely disastrous. Replacing Karl with Shaw compounded the mistake. Hard to imagine what the owner was thinking. If anything.

  43. You have a player who has been an allstar twice – once recently – who did not have the luxury of coming to one of the most stacked teams the NBA has ever seen. He’s… having the best year of his career. The numbers bear it out. He has NO major flaws as a basketball player – per 538. His numbers have gotten better every year for the last 5 years – if he was 26 with a 5-year average of 16/10/3 you’d be thrilled. That’s not that hard, right? Ask Timmy, Blake, Horford, Pau, DeMarcus, Millsap and Love. You’re looking at the list of guys -including David – who have done it once or more over the last 3 years. It’s below David’s career average.

  44. Maui Nellie

    “1. Golden State Warriors

    Despite going 4-3 in their last seven games, the Warriors remain the deepest and most versatile roster and the odds-on favorites to win it all. They can play fast, they can play slow, they’re well coached, explosive offensively, and they sport the best defense in the league. No deals made at the deadline because, quite frankly, there aren’t any pressing needs on this team (other than good luck when it comes to health).”

    This is from an “Insider” piece on ESPN. Sorry, not an “Insider” myself.

  45. GooseLosGatos

    They’ll be a market for DLee this off-season. Enough to get cap relief.
    Some GM who is feeling pressure to keep his job (Phil, Charlotte) will
    trade for him as he has a soon to be expiring contract & is good in the locker room – especially with a young team that feels pressure to win now.

  46. I’m seeing Warriors now 4th in Opponent Floor %. Look for Fitz to shift his talking point to Defensive Efficiency soon — where the Warriors still rank first.

    Also a much more meaningful stat.

  47. Career opportunity:

    6. You, too, can be in this business

    Let’s assume you watch sports with a keen analytical eye: How can you get into the sports analytics business?

    “If you’re doing good work, it will get noticed,” said Chris Anderson, co-author of “The Numbers Game,” a leading soccer analytics book. The classic path for a professional analyst involves being noticed as writer or blogger, then making the leap to an analytics-minded franchise.

    “Find ways to make it actionable,” added Tyler Dellow, a former hockey blogger who is now a consultant for the NHL’s Edmonton Oilers. “Find ways to help coaches.”

    “Do good work,” said Dallas Eakins, a former coach of the Oilers. “Have an opinion. And be able to back up your opinion.”

    Kyle Dubas, a young assistant general manager of the NHL’s Toronto Maple Leafs, expressed the most reassuring view.

    “Be yourself, and everything will be fine,” Dubas said.

    More info here:

  48. There’s a note in the paper this morning on the 1970 AP All-America team. Quite a team of scorers, though I don’t recall Mount

    Dan Issel (Ken) 33.9
    Bob Lanier (St. Bonnie) 29.1
    Pistol Pete 44.5
    Rick Mount (Pur) 35.4
    CalvinMurphy (Niagra) 29.4

    The 2nd team had Austin Carr of ND at 38.1, Rudy T from Mich with 30.1, Artis “Feet” Gilmore(Jax) 26.5 and the Heels Charlie Scott @ 27.1.

    Today’s its Kentucky with John “the Crook” Calipari, and assorted flotsam. Not so enticing.

      • Lol. That guy. The “Teflon don” of college hoops coaches. Maybe he ain’t so bad a guy as you hear – or it seems.

        I don’t watch anymore either, rgg

    • I have a casual theory that the great college players were great because they didn’t have so much competition. They were able to be featured on teams with lesser players, thus got their shots. And they didn’t face the size and athleticism and defense we see today. But that allowed them, in fact, to develop into skilled and confident players. Too much competition—and it starts in high school and before now—may not be a good thing.

      But of course college basketball is a mess now, especially with the one or two and dones. I can’t watch it.

      As a kid I followed Charlie Scott and kept track of the box scores when I couldn’t see the games. He took the Heels to the finals of the tourney, against Alcindor’s UCLA. Bill Simmons is big on him in his big book.

      • in those ‘old days’ the younger talent was identified and developed in a completely different way, and facing less or easier competition was one aspect of it. coaches rarely had the luxury of having more than one top player at the same position in the same class ; if two players were similar the upperclassman usually got the playing time ’cause the younger knew he’d get his turn with seniority. because of size/height demographics, guards and wings always had stiffer competition, so your assertion is less applicable to them. the college recruiters got to know which high schools had the toughest competition internally and in their leagues or regions. you’re also omitting the unsanctioned competition in the playgrounds and gyms, where the savvy recruiters knew to go and scout (and probably still do).

    • mount today would probably resemble korver as a player. of course high school and college hoops then was barely starting to get commercialized, and the pros were just about to begin signing players in their teens.

    • I remember all those guys. Issel played his prime in the ABA. A Dave Cowens – Willis Reed type of center, except maybe more rugged. Those were 6-9 guys (Zelmo Beatty also comes to mind) that didn’t object to playing center, unlike modern day primadonnas like Webber and Aldridge.

  49. marc, if your earlier short query re. second round picks referred to guaranteed contracts getting attached to them — unlike first round picks, teams under the c.b.a. restrictions have a latitude of contracts they can settle on their second round picks. two principal categories — the minimum salary exception, or the mid level exception (second rounders generally get well under the full exception amount, so it’s usually a split of the dole). like other minimum salaries, those can be fully guaranteed, or conditionally, which is more usual of course so the team can make cuts between preseason and the trade deadline. green’s contract was multi year and guaranteed because he was signed with part of the mid level.

  50. The media makes fun at
    Republicans for raising questions
    about Benghazi where our
    ambassador was killed. There are
    many unanswered questions in
    addition one’s pointed about
    Republicans that the press has
    never raised.

    For instance President Obama said
    the next day after being
    briefed that 4 Americans were killed
    at a diplomatic post. Later it was
    pointed that two CIA guys were killed a
    mile away at a CIA annex and the the
    ambassador and another State dept.
    were killed where CIA operations were
    conducted. The question is not where the CIA
    guys were killed but why had the Prsident
    given a different account.

    And reporting indicates that the invaders
    set up roadblocks at both end of street
    cutting off traffic in front of secret
    post and later invaded the compound.
    How did the security guards not
    see that occurring? Then after the attack
    at around 9:30 pm took place the
    guards fled and the two
    State dept. guards claimed they were not
    in the building with the ambassador from
    where he disappeared from and didn’t
    see him taken away be the invaders.

    The NYT’s the next day provided
    three discordant accounts.

    One has the building catching fire, the
    second that his body was dragged
    threw the streets and third he may
    have been killed in a safe house.

    The US govt claims the govt didn’t learn
    that his body was located until his
    dead body was in hospital at
    5:30 am on the morning. Not told who
    brought body there. So the ambassador’s
    whereabouts not known for 7 1/2 hours.

    I will later address why for a few days
    the CIA, the White House, and Susan Rice
    said the attack grew out a spontaneous
    demonstration and later said that it was a
    coordinated attack,and whether the attack
    could have been thwarted.


    • Frank, how many embassies were attacked when Bush was president? How many Americans killed?

      Is it OK for embassy staff to be killed under a Republican pres.? Why do imagine a political party that can’t govern wants to focus on one embassy attack, and not others?

      Connect the REAL dots, Frank.

  51. From Monte Poole, interesting match-ups tonight:

    Harrison Barnes vs. Giannis Antetokounmpo — The Greek Freak is one of the league’s most promising players, getting better by the game. He’s long (6-foot-11) and athletic but, at age 20, still seeking consistency. Barnes is nearly as good an athlete, and nearly as inconsistent. Should be interesting.

    Klay Thompson vs. Khris Middleton — Middleton is one of the unsung players in the NBA. He’s active and productive – yet still under the radar of many. Know this: He ranks sixth in real plus-minus. All 5 guys ahead of him are in the MVP discussion.

  52. I hope Bob Myers spends more than 15 minutes looking at Javale McGee. Here are two minutes to get him started:

    • Why McGee wanted to stay with the Sixers:

      “McGee also sees this as an opportunity to mentor rookie centers Nerlens Noel and Joel Embiid. In addition to backing up Noel, McGee said he can help with the young players’ confidence.” (CBS sports)

  53. what kidd has accomplished in Mil might be unprecedented. second year coaches don’t usually start over with a new team, let alone take them from the very bottom to the postseason in the first year.

    • Livingston said post game he was a Hall of Fame player, will probably be a Hall of Fame coach too. I couldn’t agree more.

  54. Mil with lots of gangly guys who would look good as Dubs. Competitve and fun game.

    BBalls still a pretty simple game tho. Put the ball through the hoop more than the other guys. Who better to do that than Steph? A 9 pt run to decide the game..

    Not gonna learn too much about anything important til the playoffs

    I watched Kidd compete for St Joes vs the SCal team, for the high school crown. Jason Terry was on the other team. Kidd was a great great high school and college player. Good game. Those two went head to head and dominated the game

  55. Can’t Lacoub just release DLee and pay him his salary?

    • yes, straightforward waiver. won’t happen because he’d be paying lee through June ’16 (minus the minimum from the new team) while watching him play elsewhere, unless lee just sat out.

      d’mond again put in more minutes at center than lee, speights, and ezeli combined. kept pushing things on both ends when the rest of the team looked passive. barnes turned it over on a basic hand off to bogut.

  56. Bux, questions for further study:

    1. Since we’re playing by Kerr’s rules, just how much of a loss would it be if Livingston started at 3? Would the defensive drop-off be that much? OK, they lose Barnes 2-3 3 points shots, when the rest of the team manages to get him dead open (0-2 tonight). Livingston can drive, can finish, and can create his own shot. They need some kind of relief on offense.

    2. Will the Warriors be able to win in the playoffs if Green doesn’t average 14-18 points a game? They will see similar defenses.

    • Had the same thought about starting Livingston at the 3. The D would be better, not drop-off. This would also allow Barnes to sub in at the 4.

      This would be similar to Igoudala starting at the 3.

    • Livingston’s effectiveness in this game had a lot to do with his effectiveness in Brooklyn: playing with 4 All-Stars who all spread the floor. He was unguarded with a wide open middle.

      Does that work with Bogut? Barnes is not even the 8th best player on the Warriors, but there are sound basketball reasons why he is in the starting lineup.

      • When they face defenses like this, and they will in the playoffs, does Barnes work with Bogut? Does he really stretch the floor that much with the starters? He’s rarely a threat beyond the arc.

        I don’t see how this offense can work if there isn’t some kind of relief valve when the guards are pressured. About all they get is Green 3s. Barnes has bad handles, bad court vision, and can’t create for himself or others. Livingston can handle and create. If the ball went to him, would it open up another possibility for a lob to the Bogut?

        Again, I’m playing by Kerr’s rules.

        • Barnes’ three wasn’t open over the Freak in this game. It will be wide open in the playoffs. Wide, wide, wide open.

          Ask yourself this question: If this were the playoffs, who would Jason Kidd put the Freak on? And who would MCW guard?

          • Art Vandelay

            Giannis on Curry?

          • How many cross matches do you think Barnes can handle? Maybe this year’s Tony Parker—who else. In Kerr’s passing system someone has to push the defense for openings, and Barnes can’t do that.

        • Art Vandelay

          I really like what it might do for the offense but the rebounding would take a hit (an already existing issue).

          • If Bogut could regularly put up 10 points and 10 boards a game, which he should be able to do, you could have a field day with my criticism, Art. That McGee is being considered for insurance ratcheted my dissatisfaction with him and the organization another notch.

          • Art Vandelay

            None of my comments here relate to Bogut but I assume you’re just referring to my general criticism of your Bogut observations.

            I do like the potential for moving Livingston into the starting lineup or at least giving him more meaningful minutes alongside the starters. Assuming Barnes is moved to the bench at some point, I’d prefer to see him on the court with Iggy/Curry/Klay (the latter two being given extended minutes come playoff time) than Iggy/Livingston.

            As for Bogut, he should be more productive than he is. He’s not aggressive enough around the ring, and the games that he does show something, you can’t count on him to back it up.

            I think you, feltbot, and others here have all hit on criticisms about the guy which mainstream media (fitz?) do not. But… the cherry picking to confirm observations, and the reluctance to acknowledge genuine value and performance from a player is intolerable at times.

          • I have always valued Bogut’s contributions in first and third quarters. I think Kerr is using him perfectly.

  57. there was an interesting and fluid looking line-up from 40-36 to 51-38, ezeli, draymond, livingston, thompson, curry.

    • Ezeli is Kerrs secret weapon, and Livingston will replace Barnes in crunch time line-ups.

    • cosmicballoon

      How do you earn PT on this team? Lee and Ezeli both had excellent stretches in the first half, and didn’t see the floor after halftime.

      Also, we are running into the same old problem of Iggy not shooting the ball again. He’s passing up virtual layups over and over.

  58. cosmicballoon

    OKC has the third best odds to win a championship behind the Cavs and Dubs. I don’t see it. With Durant ailing and Westbrook taking over, it’s highly unlikely they will have the cohesion needed come playoff time to grind out series wins. They may give a high seed some problems in the first round, but that second round series would probably end their season.

    • Actually, they have done well this season without Durant, who has missed 33 1/2 games entirely. Augustin and Kanter have fit in well quickly. If Durant returns to form by the playoffs, which is not at all certain, they could be a terror.

      I just don’t buy the notion of “chemistry” with the Warriors, which sounds like a cover for something else. They are still trying to work things out, often unsuccessfully. The only person who needs the support is Barnes.

      • cosmicballoon

        They have done well without Durant, but I question how Westbrook will handle being second banana when/if he comes back this season. Durant needs the ball to be successful, and that will take away from Westbrook’s ball dominant style. Now that he is a triple-double machine, I question if Durant will be able to get back into the fold in a cohesive way by the time the playoffs roll around. I also question Durant’s health this season because of the foot injury.

        If Durant isn’t around for the playoffs, a 1-and-done or a second round exit is the best the Thunder can do with Westbrook trying to play hero ball (no matter how fun it is).

        • Durant and Westbrook have been working on that for years. They’ll figure it out, though it won’t be a thing of beauty.

  59. GooseLosGatos

    I watched McGee on ‘Shaq & The Fool’ on YouTube.
    If you haven’t heard – his appearance made quit a ‘ruckus.’

    However, I came away having sympathy for him. The TNT crew was extremely rude.

    • Those guys are rude. Rudeness has become an accepted part of our media driven culture now. We’ve gone from Leave it to Beaver to Bill O’Reilly. Even impartial icons like Judge Judy. Though the earthlings she rips apart largely deserve it..

      SLiv had his FIRST signing-worthy game as a Wub, IMHO. There was some deft manipulating by Kerr of his Cube last night. Liv cant shoot the 3 and space the floor in the subsequent manner, but when he plays with Steph and Klay (throw in Dray too), his skills are evident, as he’s a much better facilitator than Barnes. But even my skills would be alittle more evident with those guys. Shaun could take a healthy chunk of HBs fourth quarter playoff minutes, depending on match-ups.

  60. McGee to Boston? Why?

    • 1) They’re trying to make the playoffs.

      2) He’ll help their D.

      • Then presumably Stevens will know what to do with him, which may not have been the case with the coaches elsewhere. For them, it’s a cheap experiment.

        • He was an extraordinarily effective defender under George Karl. And he runs the court. Not a lot of guys like him in the league.

  61. I’m kind of skeptical that last night’s replacement of Barnes with Livingston in the small ball crunchtime lineup will be something we see often — given obvious pressures within the organization to feature Barnes.

    But if it is, what are the reasons? Barnes’ horrific ballhandling and playmaking inability were on full display last night, but is that the reason? Curry, Iggy, Klay and Dray are all playmakers. Why replace a shooter with a non-shooter?

    I think it had mainly to do with defense. The difference was palpable.

    But it’s also worth noting that Livingston got more dunks out of the offense in one game than Barnes typically gets in a month. Maybe Kerr was making a point to Barnes about moving without the ball.

    Unfortunately, the idea that Kerr was simply playing the better ballplayer has been discouraged by years of watching this organization pamper Barnes.

    • Of course I’m just playing along at home, and when the debate is Barnes vs Livingston instead of other options, you know things have gone downhill.

      My other problem is what to do with Barnes, and I can’t see anything. His performance with the subs is negligible. The FO, of course, can’t have that happen. But Barnes is not going to improve, certainly not for the playoffs.

      Was his defense that good last night?

    • cosmicballoon

      Livingston is part of the answer to the Curry blitz, which is being employed again by teams with frisky guards.

      If Kerr is not going to run P&R to beat the blitz, he has to get the ball out of Curry’s hands. Barnes doesn’t move without the ball, nor handle well enough to help. Iggy is afraid/unable to attack the basket (Last night was brutal. He would get low position and not even put up a shot) and Klay is also being double teamed. Green is not really a ballhandler. What’s the answer? Give the ball to Livingston, who will only see one defender, and most likely one of the weaker defenders.

      What I like about this is that Livingston is a willing passer. His behind the back pass to Curry for an open three was a thing of beauty (except that Curry missed). He is also willing to shoot and score (3 dunks because of the attention paid to Curry).

      • The other problem is that they will face large and mobile front courts in the playoffs, and our front court cannot score. We saw this even against Utah.

        Has Livingston ever played with Bogut? He didn’t last night. I’m thinking—roughly—that whatever activity he adds on offense might create another opening for Bogut.

        • The Warriors have played 18 games thus far vs West playoff teams (including New Orleans in this mix) and are 14-4 in those games (vs Memphis (minus Bogut & Lee) 0-1, Houston 4-0, Portland 1-0, Dallas 2-0, LAC 1-1, Spurs 1-1, OKC 3-1, and New Orleans 2-0). While coaching and counter adjustments from one game to the next are big in the postseason I think it’s safe to say the Warriors players will not be lacking in confidence (in their ability to beat whomever they play) when postseason play begins.

        • Art Vandelay

          RGG, Livingston played with Bogut in Milwaukee. They haven’t spent much time on the court together but there are moments which show good chemistry between the two eg. Bogut threw an alley-oop pass to Livingston earlier in the season.

  62. It wasn’t an embassy that was attacked
    in Benghazi, rather two clandestine
    facilities were attacked. All I’m pointing out
    is that what occurred raises more
    questions then have been answered.

    Congress found that the closest US military
    help was 13 hours away but I distinctly
    remember a former CIA officer named Baer
    say on CNN the Memorial Day weekend
    following the attack say the US had a
    ‘Fire base” in Benghazi. Why had not
    US military men there not been deployed to
    where the Ambassador was located?
    Was no mention of the fire base made in
    the Congressional Report because it had
    been there prior to the overthrow
    of the Libyan government at a time
    President Ibama said we had no troops
    on the ground?

    It makes no difference if Republicans or
    Democrats were in power nor whether
    there have been attacks on our facilities
    during when a divide rent political party
    was in power. But to answer your irrelevant
    question over 200 US military men were
    killed at our embassy in Lebanon when
    Ronald Reagan was in power.

    • Uh, Frank, a US embassy was attacked in Benghazi. That’s where the ambassador was, not at some alleged secret facility.

      Pay attention, Frank. During the GW Bush administration there were 13 attacks on US embassies, killing hundreds of people. That’s NOT INCLUDING attacks on the US Embassy in Baghdad, of which there were several. All this happened while Bush/Cheney were supposedly “keeping us safe.”

      “Nearly every accusation being issued about Benghazi could’ve been raised about the Bush era attacks, and yet these self-proclaimed truth-seekers refused to, in their words, undermine the commander-in-chief while troops were in harm’s way (a line they repeated over and over again during those years).”

  63. GooseLosGatos

    As a result of the site, I’ve come to realize Barnes is ‘all brand’ & ‘no play’.

    Anyone care to estimate how many years he’ll play in the league?

    • Probably 10 or more.

      Congratulation on letting this site make you stupid.

      • GooseLosGatos


        if this site makes you ‘stupid’ why would you be ‘stupid enough’ to be regularly commenting & trolling here in the first place?

        How is the view from your basement BTW?

        • I thought this place could use the fresh air of an occasional opinion dissenting from the usual groupthink.

          Sad to see that some people are frightened or angry about that, even when (or is it especially when?) some of those dissenting opinions prove to be correct.

          • GooseLosGatos

            I welcome dissenting opinions but you got ‘unnecessarily’ vindictive.

            If you disagree that’s fine. Just keep it on those terms.

            “Can’t we all get along”. – Rodney King

    • It depends. He’ll probably get at least one more 3-year contract, probably from Lacob. If he hasn’t improved by the end of that time, he goes on one-year vet minimum deals, and his days are numbered.

      So, maybe 7-8 years. Just for comparison, Anthony Randolph (talented, but a dope) lasted 7 years before moving overseas. At some point you’re just not “promising” anymore.

      • On the other hand, this season Barnes leads the league in 3-pt. % among all forwards (.428)! He’s 5th in overall FG% among small forwards (.488). He’s 10th in total rebounds/game among SFs.

        He doesn’t block shots, make steals or assist much. He has a terrible handle – not just bad, but really ghastly. He doesn’t play a good team game – he seems to have little sense of how to help others on his team, he doesn’t work to get open, he doesn’t assist much, and he’s slow to switch on D.

        But Barnes is being used to best advantage this year, he is sinking his 3s and getting boards, and he’s far more active on D this year than in the past. There’s still some promise – and he might, in fact, continue to improve. So, snarkiness aside, maybe Swopa could be proven right about Barnes. That wouldn’t be my bet, but maybe.

        • Dead-on Hat

        • I don’t want to quibble too much, since you seem to at least be trying to present a balanced picture, but to say Barnes is “slow to switch on D” is ridiculous. (The fact that it also seems to be an article of faith around here is a perfect example of how divorced from reality this site often is.)

          Barnes’ effectiveness in switching defensively is the main reason he’s getting the minutes folks here think should be going to David Lee. It is also the reason I was able to predict over the All-Star break that his minutes would go up (as they have), even as the conventional (non-)wisdom here was that they would go down.

          • He may be quicker to switch on to D than some him credit for, but those are semantics. He’s not a good defender.

            I’m breakin my new rule of lookin at this site while in the office. But i had to add that little nugget.

          • Not surprised you disagree, Swopa, but the fact is that Barnes almost always follows his man to the hoop rather than switching. When an opponent is lighting it up from 3, it’s almost always Barnes’ guy. When Kerr needs a lockdown wing defender, Iggy gets extra minutes. And if you think Barnes is a better “big” than Lee, you know nothing John Snow.

    • das Wunderkind is getting $$ now comparable to the mid-level tier, and as he cruises through games, he’ll as easily cruise through another two mid-level deals, 6-8 years, making him a 10-12 year vet. he’ll have to decide then whether his brand is fat enough to leave the game, or just hang around on a vet minimum. so he has a 14-15 year potential (ten years past his rookie deal). there are plenty of other all purpose forwards who’ve had careers like that, and having an owner who’s intent on making him a starter on a trophy team would be a big boost, if lacob gets his way.

      the best hope of seeing him seek his fortune wearing another jersey would be a second round exit from the postseason this time ’round. otherwise, we’ll be like the cyclists in the first story of joyce’s “Dubliners” for at least another year.

  64. McGee not going to Boston:

    “After Celtics general manager Danny Ainge acknowledged earlier Thursday that the two sides were close to a deal, a source told that it unraveled when McGee wanted a player option for next season while the Celtics wanted a team option.”

    • mcgee has leverage because the minimum Bos would pay is only their portion of the $12 m. he has guaranteed from Phi through June ’16. and he might be more open to making a commitment to Bos, than they are to him.

  65. Hat: The US embassy is in Tripoli,
    Libya, not Benghazi. At the time of
    the attack there was no embassy,
    mission, nor diplomatic compound
    listed on the State dept. website which
    lists worldwide all US State dept. facilities.
    The President referred to it as a diplomatic
    post and Hillary Clinton as a State Dept.
    mission. But many sources reported it was
    clandestine facility where 2o of 24 employees
    worked there in a CIA listening program.

    And the President saying that four Americans
    were killed at a diplomatic post when two were
    later said to be killed at a CIA Annex a mile
    away leads one to conclude the CIA had at first
    presented all 4 being killed there only to
    decided later to split the four men. The President
    Saying the four were killed at a diplomatic compound
    can be excused as hiding the nature of the
    building but saying that four Americans were
    killed at the compound when CIA men in the
    Annex was killed there is a strong indication
    that for whatever unknown reason the CIA was
    Covering some aspects as to what occurred. The
    mainstream has hidden this part of the
    Cover-up by not even pointing out that the
    President had said 4 Americans were killed
    In one place.

    And the CIA later admitted it initially lied
    when it said that the attack grew out of
    spontaneous demonstration and that the
    attack was a planned attack. The reason
    they lied may well be because the CIA may
    have been hiding the fact that the
    attack and killing of the US ambassador was
    retaliation for the CIA having arrested
    Al Quada affiliated members the US had
    employed as mercenaries in overthrowing
    Quadafi and his government. This was
    suggested by former CIA officer Baer on
    CNn and by then CIA director David
    Petraeus girlfriend at a security conference
    in Aspen, Colorado, that she had received
    from her boyfriend. So had our govt and
    The US mainstream press hidden
    the real reason 4 Americans died.?
    I think so.

    • Frank, by my count investigations into Benghazi were conducted by:

      – FBI
      – CIA
      – State Department Review Board
      – 2 Senate committees
      – 6 House committees
      – Every journalistic organization on the planet

      None have found conspiracies. None have found what you have, in other words. Is this a case of EVERYONE ON THE FRIGGIN’ PLANET CONSPIRING AGAINST AMERICANS?

      Hey, dude, let’s go with Occam’s razor on this, alright? There’s a simpler explanation, the one that every single reputable organization came up with after investigating the story:

      A bad thing happened. End of story.

  66. This thread is a bit like listening to the radio on an in-between frequency.

  67. Kenny Smith gave a thoughtful and moving tribute to Dean Smith a few weeks ago on TNT. Essentially, he credits Smith with helping him develop as a complete player and a man. Michael Jordan said the same things about Dean (in Halberstam’s book). Something similar had to have happened between Bob McKillop and Steph, and Tom Izzo and Draymond Green. We get a sense of what good coaches and college and college athletics can help players do, grow into their potential. We also get a sense now of what is missing in college and NBA basketball, one context for the game we watch now.

    I was surprised by the tributes to Smith because for me, growing up in NC, he was a nasal-voiced man from Kansas with a diminutive demeanor, who tortured us with the four corner offense—basically a stalling offense before the college shot clock—and, I thought, held back his talent. His players do not say that, however, and it was Dean who told Jordan he needed to go into the NBA early, after his junior year, still a fairly exceptional move at the time.

    Smith also brought respectability to a state that was fairly self-conscious about its standing in the world. With the Tar Heel success, he gave us national attention based on obvious merit. All the fathers I knew respected him and gave him the highest honor they could give: they said he was a gentleman. We all were proud of our coaches in the ACC, who did nothing to discredit us. I’ve yet to see a loyalty as deep for an athletic team as Carolinians for their Tar Heels. Something else lost here.

    And it was Dean Smith who brought the first black scholarship athlete to Chapel Hill, Charlie Scott. He was a top-grade college basketball player, really NC’s first major player since Billy Cunningham, and an OK pro, who took NC to the finals of the NCAA tourney before losing to the UCLA dynasty. What Scott helped do for me and the whole state is start turning the racial situation around. With his leading the team to the finals, all the old arguments started to break down on clear and obvious terms, proven in the box scores. He was also a class act. I never heard anyone speak a word against him. This is another context and what helped make basketball meaningful for so many of us of a certain age. Charles Barkley talks about his regrets here often.

    Jim Barnett has told the story several times about how Scott almost went to Davidson—Lefty Driesell was a hell of a recruiter who had previously built a successful team—but upon visiting the town, was told to sit in a certain section of the restaurant and decided against the school. Actually, I checked and that isn’t true—he had to have been familiar with racial problems and decided UNC was best for him. This was in the late ’60s.

    The part of the story I struggle with is the restaurant. Davidson is part of suburban Charlotte now, but back then was a crossroads town that quickly trailed off into the country. The only place I knew to eat was a soda shot whose specialty was the grilled-cheese sandwich, that and a greasy spoon no one dared visit for health reasons, which must have been the place. We ate on campus.

    All the barbers in town were black, and by convention for many years they only served blacks after hours. But they did a thriving business, which they wanted to protect. One or two years of ROTC was mandatory back then, not an uncommon practice. Also there was a war going on, so even after the requirement was dropped many stayed in ROTC. And they all had to get haircuts. It was students who protested the policy and finally got the barbers to change it, though not without a fight.

    When I went there the Vietnam War was winding down. We let our hair grow. Our basketball team wasn’t good at all—they did beat Harvard—and probably had the longest hair in the NCAA. So the barbers were having a hard time. I remember one day, shaggy haired, just before going home for the Christmas break, I paused at one shop, debated, and started to turn away when an arm grabbed me.

    “Where you going?” the barber asked.

    “I guess I’m going to get a haircut,” and I did. I didn’t know what I wanted and he didn’t know what to do with me, but something was managed. He was a good guy, who had kids.

    “You is the all American boy,” he said, when done.

    My philosophy professor said I looked like Prince Valiant, the one in the cartoon strip.

    • +1 Beautiful short-form essay, rgg. Have you considered journalism?

    • ++
      I’m a Cali native with the quintessential Cali upbringing. Thnx for letting me experience this

    • And Davidson just routed VCU—the game was on ESPNU. It’s the only college game I’ve watched this season.

      Davidson moved up to the Atlantic 10, maybe the 7th. best conference. Both VCU and Dayton were once ranked in the top 25 this season, and Davidson has defeated both. Davidson was predicted to finish last. Instead they’re tied for 1st., a slot they should keep with an expected win on Saturday.

      No NBA prospects, small, and not especially athletic. But they’re scrappy and well disciplined. Some similarities. Swarming team defense that forces bad shots and turnovers that lead to fast breaks, early offense, much passing and back cuts—and lots of 3s.

      “Good offense helps good defense,” McKillop said after the game. “I love the attack that we had.”

      McKillop encouraged Curry to be aggressive and work on every aspect of his game, which we see now. His philosophy:

      “Attack the attacker. We will not back down from anybody. We see ourselves sometimes in the middle of the boxing ring and we always want to fight stepping forward and we always want to be in the middle. We understand we’re going to get knocked to the mat. We understand we may get knocked to the ropes. But we also understand that we may have to fight it outside the ring and get into the street, and maybe even go house to house, and we’re going to do that.”

      McKillop is the son of a NYC cop. “He used to always tell me to polish the backs of my shoes, because that’s the last thing people see of you.”

      I didn’t admire such men. My interests took me on a different course. But I respected them and knew they anchored the world I grew up in.

  68. The competition keeps eroding. Wesley Matthews, Portland, is out for the season with a torn achilles. This will hurt, as they aren’t that deep. He said, postgame, that he had a condition he was treating.

  69. From Kerr’s last post-game presser:

    “Looked at some numbers today, when Draymond is at the 5, our defensive rating is just off the charts, like 87.5 per 100 possessions. To give you some context, we’re No. 1 in the league overall, we’re at I think a defensive rating of 98 points allowed per 100 possessions… When Draymond’s at the 5, that number is 87.5. It’s crazy.”

    87.5 is astounding. When Kerr goes small, our smalls are better than “their” smalls by a wide margin.

    • There’s the explanation for why those pining to see more of David Lee as a small-ball center are likely to be disappointed — at least when games are on the line.

      Not to mention why no one should expect to see Draymond Green moved to SF anytime soon.

      • OTOH, Kerr hasn’t run the Lee/Green front line at all this season except for a few seconds at a time.

        Completely ignoring the entire NBA’s best lineup (last season) demonstrates some truly awesome confidence from a rookie coach.

  70. @71, Charlie Scott:

  71. Here’s some klassic Korn to kick off the weekend. Look for a kameo from Def Jam honcho Rick Rubin, whose got paw prints all over 80s and 90s rock and rap, from Run DMC to ACDC

    Lil johns conclusion is of Biblical proportions

  72. Pissed-ons:

    Write up a nice critical recap of tonites game if u can rgg. I can’t watch and wanna know what’s goin on. My bros missin it too…

    • Oops. I was just informed its the ‘Wrecks, not Det.

      Cle @ Atl tonite should be interesting. The Organ may set Bron off..

  73. I must be everybodys favorite sucker. I just got my second email from the FBI. heres part of it:

    “The National Central Bureau of Interpol enhanced by the United Nations and Federal Bureau of Investigation have successfully passed a mandate to the current president of Nigeria his Excellency President Good luck Jonathan to boost the exercise of clearing all foreign debts owed to you and other individuals and organizations who have been found not to have receive their Contract Sum, Lottery/Gambling, Inheritance and the likes. Now how would you like to receive your payment? Because we have two method of payment which is by Check or by ATM card?

    ATM Card: We will be issuing you a custom pin based ATM card which you will use to withdraw up to $12,000 per day from any ATM machine that has the Master Card Logo on it and the card have to be renewed in 4 years time which is 2019. Also with the ATM card you will be able to transfer your funds to your local bank account. The ATM card comes with a handbook or manual to enlighten you about how to use it. Even if you do not have a bank account.”

    All I gotta do is send em $250!

    Thats alot of bills for an ATM machine to dispense. Maybe theyre in denominations of a thousand, tho.

  74. Note: Everything has been taken care of by the Federal Government of Nigeria, The United Nation and also the FBI and including taxes, custom paper and clearance duty so all you will ever need to pay is $250.

    DO NOT SEND MONEY TO ANYONE UNTIL YOU READ THIS: The actual fees for shipping your ATM card is $550 but because FedEx have temporarily discontinued the C.O.D which gives you the chance to pay when package is delivered for international shipping We had to sign contract with them for bulk shipping which makes the fees reduce from the actual fee of $550 to $250 nothing more and no hidden fees of any sort!

    To effect the release of your fund valued at $8,500.000.00 you are advised to contact our correspondent in Africa the delivery officer George Ennis with the information below,

    Name: George Ennis
    Email: sed to contact him with the information?’s as stated below:

    Your full Name..
    Your Address:…………..
    Home/Cell Phone:…………..
    Preferred Payment Method (ATM / Cashier Check)

    –Guess I give em credit for trying. But i think I’ll pass

    • Haven’t seen the Nigerian angle for awhile. It’s like a trip down memory lane, back to the days of dial-up AOL.

      You’d think they could come up with another foreign country sometime.

      BTW, if the ATM has a $400 daily withdrawal limit, $8.5M = 21,250 days, or 58+ years.

    • rzzmark, please guard against posting spam or phishing links in the future. Particularly one as virulently dangerous as this one was.

      I have deleted it.

  75. Can Dallas even score now? They’re 5-5 their last 10 games and are averaging 93 points per game. (I didn’t check for injuries.)

  76. @73 Green’s effectiveness at small ball center in crunch time has been nothing short of extraordinary, and I’m all aboard with it. Even if it means excusing David Lee to watch TV in the lockerroom for the entire game. I have always been about playing the best lineups in the best system, and nothing else.

    This has absolutely nothing to do with where Green should start when the Warriors face massive front lines, or superstar threes. Absolutely. Nothing.

    Unless it argues even more strongly for starting him at three. One of the big issues is wear and tear, not just over the course of the season and playoffs, but within the game itself. If you plan extended runs with Draymond at small ball five, you should preserve his strength as much as possible earlier in the game.

    Just as Kawhi Leonard, Kevin Durant, and now Lebron have their strength preserved for their crunchtime runs at stretch-four, and Anthony Davis has his strength preserved for his crunchtime runs at center.

    The other big issue is where to play Green to maximize his extraordinary defensive ability. Playing him at small ball center in crunchtime is a stroke of genius in this regard. How can you get more out of his defense than that?

    But the question of the starting lineup is something completely different. The first and third quarters are when the behemoths clash. Center is out. So especially when faced with superstar threes, at what position can you best maximize Green’s abilities? What starting lineup is the Warriors’ best, given that they are currently 20th in the league in rebounding, and David Lee is diddling himself on the bench?

    The answer to that is not as cut and dry as some posters would like to pretend. Green at four stretches the floor for Bogut and Curry — highly valuable, no question. Green at three is ideally positioned to shut down the opposition’s best scorer, and improves the rebounding immensely.

    Is this not worth thinking about? You’d think I was asking Steve Kerr to reinvent the wheel judging by the reactions of some posters.

    • You’ve said this about 5 times now. I doubt anyone will see it still.

    • Kerr already made his decision. No P&R. And when DLee is in the game, Kerr runs him in a low post “triangle elements” offense or out on the perimeter handing the ball off. BTW, did the Warriors run even 1 P&R play tonight? I thought I saw Curry start a few with Bogut, but Bogut didn’t roll, he just stepped back out on the perimeter. If Kerr don’t want DLee on the floor because of his defense, fine, why not run some P&R with Green, Speights, or Ezeli? Why didn’t the Warriors trade DLee at the recently expired dead line?

    • I’ve generally been against the “start Draymond at SF” idea because I’m of the opinion that playing Draymond as high up on the positional 1-2-3-4-5 scale as possible maximizes his offensive impact while not hurting his defensive impact. However, I do agree with your point about conserving him. It just seems like it would be a lot more effective for Kerr to just rest him a number of games like he does with Iguodala and Bogut (ditto for Curry and Thompson). Once the playoffs arrive, the frequent off-days should mitigate the accumulation of wear and tear and, ideally, having shorter playoff series than other West teams would help as well.

    • warriorsablaze

      I don’t really recall to much argument against the basketball reasons. Green spending time at the 3 as a stopper is a sound strategy for certain match-ups …. though with Lee and Bogut out there we can say goodbye to all the lay-ups Steph and Klay have managed to get this season.

      Most simply take issue with the ridiculous amount of declarations/assumptions you make about Green and Lacob’s psychology. I’m sure it’s fun to speculate, but the amount of weight such things are given in your analysis is what makes this site so frustrating for many… particularly since the actual basketball stuff is generally spot on.

      • Ironically, Feltbot himself has given the best basketball reason for not moving Draymond to SF. On a couple of occasions, he has praised opponents’ tactics in trying to match Green up against a 3-point threat, since this attempts to pull Draymond’s defense & rebounding out of the paint.

        Making Green the full-time SF would take this advantage that some teams go out of their way to seek, and gift-wrap it for the entire league to exploit. Does that really make basketball sense? The exceptional defensive rating with Draymond at C underscores the broader point that he’s at his disruptive best when he’s in the middle.

        As George notes, part of the SF argument is saving Green’s energy to play small-ball C. But Draymond himself has pointed out the flaw in that — he’d wear himself out just as much, if not more, chasing SFs around screens from one side of the court to the other. And trust me, if Green was the starting SF, teams would employ that strategy ruthlessly, running him through as many screens as possible so that the scoring wing he’s supposed to “stop” is able to penetrate into the Draymond-free middle.

  77. All those who think the Cavs are going to simply waltz over the Hawks in the East… oops.

    • The Warrior matchup was obviously a statement game, when Lebron was turned loose. But only 13 shots against Atlanta. Was Blatt trying something out in anticipation of a likely series and holding him back? But obviously Cleveland couldn’t defend Atlanta.

      • d.carroll didn’t take any possessions on defense off, whether james was with or without the ball. great to see him get recognition. budenholzer probably picked up the knack in SA of identifying semi-obscure players who’d fit what he wants. will the officials be as unsympathetic to james in the post season, we’ll see.

      • FeltbotsFakeGirlfriend

        Lebron had 9 turnovers in the Hawks game.

    • The difference between Harrison Barnes and DeMarre Carroll. LeBron was 1-7 against Carroll, and was subjected to several HARD fouls.

      Here’s an interesting question for everyone: When was the last time you saw Barnes deliver a statement foul?

  78. Dallas:

    Parsons has missed the last 7 games, but he wasn’t scoring that much before nor does his absence account for Dallas’s drop off in offense. Has Rondo simply taken Ellis and the others out of their game?

    And Dallas just looked dead.

    So I followed Barnes tonight on defense. He did muscle up on Nowitzki, fouling him once, boxed him out on a rebound and challenged him on a shot, but Nowitzki really didn’t go at him and looked like he was playing on one leg. Jefferson blew around him twice, though didn’t score. He missed a switch on Stoudemire, which I believe is what drew looks of disgust from the bench. And I didn’t see much anything he did that was significant on defense. Maybe he can move around against an offense that is going half speed and stay in the flow, but he can’t react to sudden changes. I couldn’t tell if it was his steal or a deflection he picked up, but he wasn’t challenged on the dunk—Jefferson was steps behind. As on offense, he just isn’t quick headed enough and doesn’t see well enough to make critical decisions or react at critical moments. Everything has to come to him, and not too fast.

    Swopa’s ballet theory of defense is a pile of crap.

    10 boards for Livingston, however, which reflect vision and quickness. And he got a block on Nowitzki.

    • Well, rgg, it’s painful to admit this, but you’ve exposed me as nothing but a Lacobite shill. You’ve applied your vastly superior basketball insight, and conclusively demonstrated that Harrison Barnes is a terrible defender. All I can do is hang my head in shame.

      But I’m afraid that in the final analysis, the news is even worse for you. Because corruption and deceit run the world, and Steve Kerr is just as much in Lacob’s thrall as I am — and so, Barnes will continue to get minutes just as if he was a good defensive player. Not just now, but all through the playoffs… and in all likelihood, for years to come as he remains the Warriors’ starting small forward! That’s how important the mighty Black Falcon™ brand is to Lacob — and, like myself, Kerr would rather serve that than win an NBA championship.

      It’s probably cruel of me to reveal this scheme to you. But it’s the only meager revenge left to me now that you’ve crushed my inferior intellect and integrity. Mwhahahaha!

      • There, that didn’t hurt, did it?

        Seriously. For me it’s most a matter of maintaining a sense of reality, maybe sanity. The statement made was that Barnes’ minutes are justified by his defense. That is nonsense. Maybe at best he can move around in well-rehearsed, carefully orchestrated scheme, but he can’t do much critical within it. At best he is an average NBA defender. It is the steals and stops and general harassment that have made this defense potent. If Barnes were a better defender, it would be hell.

        And it’s not brain surgery. It’s a simple eyeball test. On the front page of ESPN this morning you see a picture of Bazemore in Lebron’s face with his hand on the ball. Barnes cannot do this. Watch Carroll in the highlights:

        especially @:42, when he fights through a screen and picks up Lebron on a drive. Barnes cannot do this.

        He just doesn’t see the court well or react quickly enough. Maybe he’s trying to be more aggressive, but without those he won’t be effective. And I doubt there’s any chance that will ever change. He’s just not wired for quickness.

        There is no good explanation for all the minutes and attention he has received, other than a mandate from above. But most likely you’re right. We’re stuck with him in the playoffs and will be stuck with him for some time. That observation is not great insight. It is a simple reading of the signs, which have been with us all along. I think, however, we can be forgiven for having trouble believing such an obvious error in management.

        • Bazemore, incidentally, played 20 minutes and was +15, highest on the team. Think Barnes can help the subs out that much?

        • The issue we’re talking about here is “instinct” v. training, and Barnes is a fascinating case study.

          Most players talk about developing “muscle memory.” Klay can sink threes blindfolded (,

          something he learned through endless repetition, to the point that he actually can shoot “lights out” without light. But over the last 3 years we’ve also seen Klay learn to be a tremendous defender, to the point where we can assume he’ll almost always do the right thing, instantaneously, to defend against an opponent.

          It’s obvious that defense didn’t come naturally to Klay, that he had to train those responses into his game, and he did do precisely that.

          Barnes’ defensive responses haven’t developed to that degree yet. But Klay is proof that it’s possible. Klay is 25, Barnes is 22.

          Neither of those guys is Draymond, the fat boy from Saginaw who couldn’t shoot, the guy who started figuring out D in high school and only now is learning how to score, sort of the reverse of Klay and Barnes.

          But Klay and Barnes have Draymond and Ron Adams to help them instill “defensive instincts,” which really can be trained into their on-court performance because they’re only learned, “muscle memory” responses to moves and situations they have prepared for.

          The NBA game happens faster than thought.

          Barnes still thinks things everything through, which makes him… relatively unresponsive. But if he keeps at it, he’ll be fine. He could even be Klay-level awesome someday.

          But Gawddamn he’s got shitload to learn.

          • Hat, aside from the fact that Barnes is much further along than you think, this is a really good comment.

          • Interesting concept Hat. Barnes was reported a slow first step in the pre-draft scouting reports, which I observe on the court. Perhaps part of that is mental, over come by training. If blocks and steals are hall marks of defensive accruem, Barnes does not grade highly, according to ESPN. Barnes is 28 of 43 qualified small forwards in steals and 40 of 49 in blocks. (Interestingly to me is Green is listed as a small forward and is 5th in steals and 2nd in blocks.). Iguodala, listed as a 2 guard, is 11 of 57 in steals and 18 of 57 in blocks. If defensive rebounding is an indicator of defense, then Barnes grades out well, 13th (Green is 1st).

          • hat, great post, a much needed balanced view on Barnes.

        • One of the most intriguing things about your delusion theory that Barnes only gets minutes because of “a mandate from above” is how other teams’ players seem to be part of the charade as well.

          As you mentioned, Jefferson and Dirk graciously failed to take advantage of the poor, defenseless Barnes. Same thing vs. Milwaukee — Antetokounmpo scored 16 points, but zero when matched up with Barnes. And do you remember in the Toronto game, where Terrence Ross (a Feltbot favorite) scored 7 points within a few minutes early in the 2nd quarter? After that, substitutions caused him to be matched up against Barnes, and he didn’t score again for the rest of the period.

          One more fun example: Take a look at <a href=""Andrew Wiggins' game logs. Notice how he basically disappeared against the Warriors last month? He’s averaged 18.6 points and 15 field goal attempts since January 1st, but only scored 6 points on 7 shots (and no free throws) against GS. In fact, those 7 FGAs were his fewest since… the previous time the T-Wolves played GS in late December.

          Is Lacob paying off other teams to go easy on his golden child? The conspiracy gets deeper and deeper the more you look into it. Barnes truthers, assemble!!

          • Believe we’ve moved from conspiracy problems to delusional ones. It’s beyond me why you support so much a player who shows so little visual evidence of quality. As always, your “proof” is invisible and unconvincing.

          • And your intentional misreadings make me question your motives.

            “Nowitzki really didn’t go at him and looked like he was playing on one leg.”

            Do you really believe Nowitzki can’t get a shot up over Barnes?



          • lol, it is hard to believe how most on this site buys into conspiracy theories with no legs and continually proven wrong, prime example being Barnes offered in trade for Kevin Love. Oh, btw, trade deadline passed and Barnes is still a dub, so was not a ‘showcase’.

      • did you spend much time growing up scouting players on the playgrounds or gyms, and chatting with other observers ? or are you familiar with the peter principle. at his position, at his level of competition, barnes is what the playground scouts would call ‘a stiff’, competent, with occasional flashes of impact, but just a bit too deliberate and behind the progression of play rather than in it or ahead of it. some of the time he literally appears stiff and too upright in his body language.

        middling role fillers are quite capable however of rising to fairly lofty positions in the right organization. barnes has ascended to the level of his incompetence. the team has room to improve further. his fans will see him as a vital part of that improvement. possibly, we’ll see, but more likely he will be benefitting from his organization. will he ever be relied on to deliver forty tough minutes in a close game, locking down one of the opposition’s best players, or saving busted plays, covering for his ‘mates’ blown assignments. hope you watched the fourth quarter vs. Brk recently, the squad w/o barnes rallying for a come back. kerr reinserts das Wunderkind to close it out with the team still trailing. the coach actually disrupted the rhythm of his team, and barnes can’t finish two critical plays, committing a foul going for an offensive rebound, and fumbling the final pass on a fast break, converting one of his two foul shots as a result.

        • Barnes must be the most heavily supported player in the NBA. The real test is to see what he can do on his own, with lesser players, and the answer for years has been almost nothing.

          • On Contrary, Barnes is hated as a player itself is a shock and it happens only on this site. Nothing supports your hatred for Barnes, on other hand, he is a starting SF of the still the best team in the league. He is the best 3PT shooter, top 5 rebounder and #3 in shooting %ages for a SF.

            Sure, focus on what he can’t do rather than what he could do at 22 years of age, at the age Green and Klay were still playing college ball.

    • Hopefully Barnes court awareness improves. I see how guys steal the ball off his dribble, hope he learns how to move off the ball like Livingston, and develop better passing decisions as well.

      IMO Livingston plays very well as a Wing alongside Curry and Thompson.

      • Barnes has been earning his minutes with shooting, defense and rebounding while picking his spots playing with talented teammates(He is the best 3PT shooter, top 5 rebounder and #3 in shooting %ages for a SF). He would, with more experience will improve his court awareness. Everyone always has been with more game time experience. He also works hard, apparently, so with he can already do, he is only going to be better. How much better, nobody knows but I can bet he will be better.

        • Harry, not to quibble too much, but Barnes is rated 10th in small forwards rebounding with 12 guys ahead of him, still very good.

          • Marc, That is true, my bad. Few of those guys are actually PFs like Green, Josh Smith, Kidd etc..

  79. Apologies Feltbot
    Won’t happen again
    Another brain fart on my part.

  80. GS vs OKC round 1 set in stone now, unless Thunder go 20-0..

  81. The Clippers just picked up shorty doowop (Nate) and we may see him tomorrow.

    • robinson was signed to fill in for the injured crawfor(*), who has been the difference maker for them vs. GS on occasion. of course, we’d rather watch robinson, but he’s probably rusty, not in synch with a new team, and the chance to see an upset is probably diminished.

  82. Regarding the Barnes discussion in 82 above, I cited his steals and blocks relative to other small forwards, where he grades out 28 of 43 on steals and 40 of 49 on blocks. His assist to turn-overs is 27 of 49. To me, these are indicators of “court awareness”, and can perhaps be learned, as Hat points out. (Interesting to me is Green is listed in the small forward category and is listed 5th, 2nd, and 2nd in steals, blocks, and A/TO respectively. An indicator of Greens potential to play the 3?)

  83. Hawks lost the 2nd of the back-to-back. Carroll and Milsap did not play.

    • one of the two significant areas where kerr is not part of the popovich school. we’ll see if he rests any of his trio of curry, green, thompson, let alone two for the same game.

      • I would think Kerr as a first year coach feels pressure to prove himself. Is the Hawks coach also a first time head coach thus year?

        • FeltbotsFakeGirlfriend

          2nd year

        • swopa, by most accounts lacob’s first choice for the job was budenholzer, but the offer was turned down. let us not forget how secure and successful budenholzer was in SA, and how much control the coach has there over the roster. how much authority would lacob ever grant his coach, with his expectations that his son will be running the team eventually.

          • Can you provide any links to these “most accounts”?

          • swopa, it’s o.k. with me if you don’t accept my recollection. you are probably much more adept with computer uses and searches anyway.

          • Maui Nellie

            “At Golden State, ABC/ESPN analyst Mark Jackson is in the lead, according to a league source, having interviewed twice, the second time with owner Joe Lacob. Lacob has also conducted interviews with Spurs assistant coach Mike Budenholzer and was believed to have conducted the Malone interview Sunday. Those two trail Jackson at the moment. But former Lakers assistant and Oakland native Brian Shaw and Celtics assistant Lawrence Frank, though trailing the others, are not out of the mix. Shaw has yet to get a first interview set up by Golden State. Normally that would be telling, but Shaw’s camp is allowing for the possibility that the Harvard MBA educated-Lacob, a creature of venture capital and Silicon Valley, may think differently and may have a more unorthodox method to his coaching search madness than the norm.”


          • So, budz didn’t accept warriors job offer because of a certain owner and the kid, wow, that is a reach even for you.

            My recollection, Mark Jackson was the first choice.

          • Why was Lacob and not Myers conducting the interviews?

      • From the ESPN recap;

        The Hawks (49-13), who came in with the best record in the league, rested starters Paul Millsap, Kyle Korver, and DeMarre Carroll, taking more than 41 points out of their lineup. Korver didn’t even make the trip.

        Hawks coach Mike Budenholzer defended his decision afterward.

        “A lot of our guys got to learn and grow,” he said. “It wasn’t our best night, but sometimes you learn from those as much as your good nights.”

      • moto, what’s the other one?

        • the other critical aspect of the SA method kerr has ignored is the integration of plays and functions between the starters and reserves, which if you think about it, is an essential element to giving starters rest games without conceding losses.

  84. Marc, about your question on why Lacob was conducting interviews for coaches, if I recall correctly, Myers was not a GM yet.

  85. Maui Nellie

    A short but interesting talk about analytics and the NBA (Warriors included).

  86. -Q: What was the tenor of the conversation like with Budenholzer when you met him?

    -LACOB: It was a long, long conversation, because he was late in the process. I think he is technically a very good coach. Excellent.

    I didn’t think he was the right fit for our organization at this time. I think he fits very well in the San Antonio organization. He’s been there for 15 years. I think he’s a very, very good coach. He was strongly in consideration, but he’s not the guy we chose.

    And we see Lacob’s thinking in taking Jackson:

    -LACOB: And it’s not about X’s and O’s, it’s about who can get the guys to play that hard. Who’s going to organize them properly. Who has the experience to know why this guy isn’t performing the way he should. Who’s going to put the pieces together in the right way. Who has the sense from being on the court for a lot of years, who knows how the pieces are going to fit together. That’s important. I interviewed a lot of assistant coaches in this process who are very good assistants. At the end of the day… it’s hard for me to get compelled by some of them, even though they might have had all the X’s and O’s that you refer to… they sounded really good with respect to X’s and O’s… but I wasn’t convinced they could move from that chair as the assistant to this chair as the head coach and lead. Make it happen.

    Muddled as it is. Lacob never cared about strategists—and probably didn’t understand them. Also he wanted to wash away the taste of Nelson. But he did have a sense of what he wanted from the start, a bigger, more defensive team, who played traditional offense dependent on the bigs. It has taken him years to move away from this, if he has. And it took injuries to the bigs to provide him evidence that smaller lineups playing at a faster pace can be effective, if indeed this has sunk in yet. The changes came in through the back door with Kerr, a coach perhaps he listens to.

    What we won’t know is how interested Budenholzer was in the Warriors. But the Warriors would have been a bad fit for him, the way they conceived the team. He wouldn’t have the control he needed, or all the players. Lacob has controlled player acquisition.

    A more interesting question is whether Bud would have stayed. He would have gone through the tank year to get Barnes and faced the same limitations in the roster, the same Lacob choices and preferences. Jackson’s record, in spite of all, still was quite good, especially when you factor in how much stronger the West was then. And if you made such adjustments, you’d find that the record now isn’t all that much better.

    • This doesn’t contradict moto’s thought that Bud turned Lacob down, btw. We’ll never hear that report. And Lacob has been less than honest on so many occasions.

      • Gosh, rgg, I’m sure Lacob must have been dishonest sometimes because, well, you said so. But I’m drawing a blank. Do you have examples, please?

      • Hat, his lies have been linked and discussed here many times before. You ignored this discussion. Why link again?

        What I’ve noted is that his strongest defenders never bother to look at what he says and does.

        • Note that no one here is defending Lacob.

          The topic is Lacob’s lies. Got any examples?

          • Thanks for clarifying that for me, rgg. I”ll take your non-answer as “zero examples.” I couldn’t think of any flat-out lies either.

            A healthy sense of skepticism is important when dealing with sharpies like Lacob, but while I keep looking for lies, the worst I can come up with is some harmless spin, like “Jackson was my first choice.”

      • my allegation that budenholzer turned down lacob isn’t a criminal charge, so there’s no burden to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. we will never hear any lacobite source disclose what happened in the interview. the marketing snow job around hiring the preacher, the stuff about lacob and the ex-player/broadcaster reaching a ‘mind meld’, and all we’ve learned about their m.o. makes that clear. the great venture capitalist will never admit one of his confidence pitches, how coaching GS , then in its transient condition, would be a great career move from SA, didn’t bear the desired fruit. true believer partisans, real fan season ticket owners, associates or employees of the lacob-who-would-be-oligarch, won’t look at the chronology and events to derive critical inferences.

        budenholzer was one of the first priority candidates they spoke of when smart was discharged. his response, he had no interest in giving up his SA gig at that point in his life/career. there’s a definite protocol the owners have to follow to interview a coach on a competing team. most assistants have a contractual clause allowing them to interview for head coaching jobs, but the employer naturally expects to be fully informed, and an owner who violates protocol regarding tampering with another team’s employee will face sanctions from his peers in the assoc.’s board of guvnors. it was lacob who flew into SA to interview the coach, not the coach who visited the owner. after their chat, budenholzer essentially had the same comments as before about his great situation in SA.

        even so, the evidence would not be quite as solid, were it not for the curious case of Michael Malone. he took the GS job with the clause in his contract to the effect he was the associate head coach, which of course the lesser jackson took exception to. malone, who was close to budenholzer in the short list of assistants considered most qualified to have their own team. lacobite p.r. made sure everyone knew that malone was the highest paid assistant in the association. to me this shows how much the owner wanted to have a highly qualified, experienced assistant on his bench, and in the fullness of time, we have in fact learned that budenholzer was the best on that short list of candidates.

        • Was pretty sure you were on top of this, moto.

        • Perhaps Bud was only offered the job that Malone took, second chair to Jackson? Lacob was schooled on the Doc Rivers- Thibs model, and I assumed he wanted the same.

          • rivers had experience as the boss coach in Orl previous to the Bos connection w. thibodeau and lacob. and could lacob take himself seriously, offering budenholzer to give up his tenured chair, learning from popovich, buford, and gaining credibility, to ‘partner’ a blustery novice under a novice owner making the roster decisions.

    • The one thing that sticks out about the Warriors roster is their size, and that’s a big reason why they’re considered an “elite defense” by many who follow the league. It’s (their size) also why they can switch everything and not be at a disadvantage defensively. This (the “Lacob regime”), IMO, was never about trying to create a “Memphis style” of play where you’re trying to play halfcourt basketball and slow everything down. Instead, this has always been about getting bigger at every position, which in return would result in the likelihood of better defense and better rebounding, which in itself usually leads to a better offensive attack (not the least of which is more fast break opportunities). No better accentuation of their roster assemblage (and strategic ideas) than their growing number of wins each season, at least to my way of thinking.

      • No argument, but that happened by default. Their first effort has always been a center, to the exclusion of other decisions. Memphis style, or something like it, was always what they had in mind. And you don’t think that isn’t what attracted them to Jerry West?

        • yeah drafting Green, getting Iguodala and Livingston happened by default, you have no clue what you are talking about.

        • warriorablaze

          We also used our lottery picks to draft the huge, lumbering centers Klay Thompson and Harrison Barnes.

          • I’m talking money and attention. Money put in one player won’t go to others. Attention paid to one player means other players won’t get consideration during the trade season. And in this regard, his major effort has gone for centers, clearly.

            Your memory may be better than mine, WaB, so correct me where I’m wrong. I believe it was in 2011 that Lacob made his first major effort going after a center, Howard, Chandler, or Jordan (he still talks of Jordan), none remotely available, so his major acquisition was Kwame Brown, $7m. He didn’t have much money to work with, or wouldn’t spend it. This is money that didn’t go into another role player. Remember Brown?

            Nor did he amnesty Biedrins, $9m, I guess because he decided he was indispensable. That’s a huge chunk of change that could have gotten someone else.

            Then, of course, he made the transcendent deal for Bogut, with whom I assume you’re satisfied. What is it, 5 years for about $85m? Then of course the Jefferson $10m contract that went with it. Anticipating this deal was the reason, of course, they drafted Klay and, during the tank year, when Bogut was wholly injured, allowed them to draft Barnes. Neither have cost the team much—yet.

            Dwight Howard was still his first major target later, and he would have come at a high price. Iguodala was plan B. I assume you’re happy with Iguodala. Or do you like him on the bench? Or could they have used the Utah windfall to go after someone else? Timing was critical for trades, and it was spent pursing Howard. But I guess it would have been worth it, because Howard is a transcendent player.

            I guess we don’t want to discuss roster spots locked up and wasted on bad center prospects—Jeremy Tyler, Kuzmic, etc.

            Then, after center, add the defensive forwards who have come and gone, starting with Lou Amundson. I’ve forgotten most of their names.

            While you’re at it, do what I did, look at rosters for the Warriors and Spurs the last 4-5 years. See how many players have come and gone for the Warriors. See how many names you even remember. Look at how many have stayed with the Spurs and developed, at all positions.

    • You think the West is less-good now than it was 3 years ago? What gives you that impression?

    • if you’re praising the preacher’s record, while speculating the western conference was stronger, are you referring to the high tide of his tenure, when they reached the second round (ezeli starting many regular season games, biedrins with a token one or two starts, in case this has faded from memories).

      in those two intervening seasons there has been so much personnel changed, including key coaching posts, that your variables would be very tough to track in support of the conference being tougher. overall, with the gap at present between Atl and the rest in the east, and between GS/Mem and the rest of the west, there was obviously more parity two seasons ago. gasol was still in LA and they were competitive ; Den was in the upper tier. UT had 43 wins, missing the eighth playoff spot, with millsap, a.jefferson, d.carroll moving to eastern teams since. this season, injuries have markedly suppressed two of the preseason favorites, OK and SA, another top contender Hou, and will now severely impair Por’s chances. the rivers gang was hyped to be a principal, if not the biggest rival to GS, but the coach/v.p. never found enough patches for his thin roster. the hoops gods have certainly thrown a bundle of favors into the lacobites’ lap.

      it seems possible at this moment that the woeyrs’ lack of experience (rookie coach, one marginal reserve who’s been in two conference finals series w. Phx) might get through to the finals. but it only takes one other team that stays healthy and gets hot in Apr-May for them to be derailed. lack of parity during the regular season becomes moot.

      • You only have to look at the rosters two seasons ago for the obvious point. But the west was stronger last season as well. The Clippers were better, as were several others. Dallas, however, is somewhat worse for a variety of reasons.

        And every team below Memphis has been hobbled this season by injuries or dislocation. Denver and Phoenix have nearly been torn apart. The Warriors have gotten breaks in so many games, such as the one today. Durant, Westbrook, Howard, etc. etc.—all out.

        If the Spurs and Thunder return to health and form, not at all certain, maybe even doubtful, then it’s a different picture, as you say. If not, we can start laying palm leaves before the Warriors’ path.

        I went through all the games to check the lineups and dnps, but of course everyone here is aware of that and I won’t do so here. In fact about the only major teams they have faced full strength are Memphis, OKC once, Atlanta, and Cleveland, and maybe the Spurs early (I’m not counting the game Lebron sat), and we know what happened there. It’s just hard to know what we got.

        But not, of course, praising MJax—I’m sure you recall all our discussions before—though it has to be conceded he coached many games well. But MJax had to suffer Barnes’ sophomore slump and didn’t have the advantage of his resurgence this year, which we have all seen.

        MJax said several things that got my attention today that I thought were pretty good. Certainly better than listening to Fitz. He spoke up for Holiday and Lee. And he repeated and somewhat qualified his comment about rim protectors being overrated. Of course he had Bogut in mind. You have to wonder. Was there a rift between them? Or was MJax pushed to play Bogut by the brain trust? He sure didn’t mind sitting him to close out games.

  87. Peter Guber and virtual reality as it pertains to the future (NBA experience).

  88. Curry tweet:

    “So hype right now. They picked us 12thbin the @atlantic10 preseason poll and now @DavidsonMBB are Reg Season camps. Ha! #TCC #MCKILLOP baby!”

    This is kind of interesting. Davidson routed Duquesne yesterday 107-78, to give them sole possession of first place. As Steph said, they were seeded 12th.

    Davidson started 4 guards and a forward, their tallest player at 6-7. They went 20-36 on 3s, 56%, building up quickly an unsurmountable lead. Some Warrior similarities here: come out on offense and put teams on their heels.

    Duquesne, of course, isn’t very good. Davidson should get an NCAA bid regardless of A-10 tourney results, probably a low seed, and likely will not go far.

  89. Clipz—

    Hope you got this one, Feltbot. What a fascinating—and at times problematic and perplexing—game, especially first half. If Kerr is working on chemistry, he was a mad scientist here, especially first half.

    The problematic part is scoring with the starters, since Bogut can’t put anything up. That means they have to get scoring from Green—but, well, they did. Never sell Green short.

    Livingston is useful and worth being surrounded by starters. Have to think Kerr is gearing him up for the playoffs. They’ll need offense somewhere else, even if it doesn’t come from the perimeter. He’s just not a good PG for the second unit.

    The most surprising thing about Curry’s move and three point shot is that we were not surprised.

    The Clipz, of course, were short handed. Just Crawford’s scoring punch would have made a difference. The lights keep staying green.

    • Kerr didn’t like that shot. Gentry didn’t seem to mind.

    • “He’s just not a good PG for the second unit.”

      Seriously, did you watch the game ?? You have to be blindfolded to see otherwise how Livingston singlehandedly withstood Clippers charges over last 5 minutes of the game. Lee was a ghost during that time.

      • I saw DLee miss 4 straight FTs. Grrr.

        • Last 5 minutes of game everyone on the floor everyone except Livingston were pathetic, that includes Barnes, Lee, Holiday and Barbosa.

          Lee hit that jumper, that would help the team if he can hit that outside jumper consistently but Speights probably better at that too.

      • Livingston only scores when off the ball, but did so well. 3 assists. This is not point guard duty. I thought Barnes had an exceptionally good game, btw, both sides of the court. They don’t win without him. I was hoping you’d pick this up, given your interest.

        • What does “point guard” even mean these days? BTW how many hockey assists was Livingston involved in. When you factor in the Warriors style of play, the traditional number of assists for the point guard is going to be lower.

    • with the reserves, livingston functions as the wing, with iguodala a combo guard/wing and barbosa the 2-guard. iguodala is almost always picking up the most assists when the three are out there.

      what we saw this game was how much better the starters functioned with livingston at the 3 in place of barnes, with d’mond continuing to hit some of his 3’s. the slighter, older player rebounds as well as das Wunderkind, his movement with or without the ball is at a compatible level with the starters, and unlike the younger guy he aggressively looks for his shot (an integral part of better movement away from the ball of course, as is getting to more boards).

      in the end barnes had decent looking numbers to show for his minutes, but he played the entire fourth quarter, as their lead shrank about ten points, to get them.

      • That Green-Livingston-Iguodala-Thompson-Curry line-up was very impressive and blew the game open. That might be Kerrs playoffs closing unit.

      • +1 Spot on, Moto.

      • When the lead shrank over last 5 minutes, Barnes was bad but so were Lee, Barbosa and Holiday. Ofcourse, you have to pick on Barnes like he was the sole reason the lead shrank.

  90. Van Gundy line — Warriors are big when they go small.

  91. Not going to bother with this one, spectacularly uninteresting. Clippers in name only.

    • It was the subs he made 1st half. I’m still waiting for the game flow. Schizophrenic or brilliant tinkering?

      • The pattern for the past several games is that in the 1st half, Kerr tries to spread the minutes around as best he can. In the 2nd half, he tightens the rotation if necessary.

        More broadly, the backup C and backup SG slots are still up for grabs. Lee/Speights/Ezeli and Barbosa/Holiday (& now Livingston) get a chance in the 1st half to prove they should get minutes in the 2nd half.

        • It’s hard to know what to make of the 2nd. half rotations since the game was well in hand towards the end of 3rd. quarter.

          Livingston’s unit without Curry was unimpressive, about 3 mins, -3. But you see what Livingston did with Curry later first half:

          • If the game was closer (and if the W’s weren’t playing again tomorrow night), you wouldn’t have seen Lee or Barbosa in the 2nd half.

          • I’m surprised, then, they didn’t rest Barnes, since the game was in hand. He played heavy minutes tonight and they’ll certainly need him tomorrow.

          • Barnes, at 22, is the youngest player on the team. That may arguably give him a pass on some things, but needing rest isn’t one of them. :)

          • Barnes needs to be out there as much as possible to learn the game. And yes at 22, no problem.

  92. warriorablaze

    “There were a few times when there were rebounds just bouncing to the floor. I can’t go get them because you can’t take a body off him. So my job was just to keep him off the board and then one of our other guys come get the rebound.” –Dray

    This is what I think of every time Felty cherry picks a low Green rebound total to push his Lee at the 4, Dray at the 3 idea. It’s a fundamental difference between Dray and Lee. Dray getting lower rebound totals has nothing to do with his size playing the 4…it has everything to do with the fact that he boxes out his man, and he goes for blocks. Lee tends to do neither of those things.

    • Hard to believe you could actually believe that if you ever watched Lee play. He’s strictly a position rebounder.

      Why don’t you address this fact: Last year with Bogut frequently injured and Ezeli out all year, the Warriors were 10th in rebound rate. This year, they’re 20th.

      There are plenty of reasons to defend what’s going on this year without having to make stuff up.

    • I need to point something else out about this game. A major reason that Jordan rebounded well in the playoffs last year was because Lee had to give Dray double team help in the post against Griffin.

      Another major reason was that Lee was playing through an injury that required surgery.

      If you want to see how Lee performs against Jordan when healthy, and when playing with a center, check out Ezeli’s rookie season. And remember that Jackson was crossmatching Ezeli on Griffin, Lee on Jordan.

    • I don’t know if boxing out is always the reason for Draymond’s low-rebound games (sometimes, IMO, he just gets punished for being undersized), but today — with Barnes getting 8 defensive boards and Livingston 6 — it seems to hold water.

      Long before I took flak here for daring to stand up for Barnes, I was reviled on another GS site a decade-plus ago for defending Erick Dampier. He was often criticized for a lack of rebounding, but during his tenure at center, several W’s PFs put up huge rebounding numbers because of Damp’s ability to box out.

      My favorite boxing-out story, though, goes back to following the Lakers in the mid-1990s. When they played the Bulls, Vlade Divac took on the burden of battling Dennis Rodman. When a shot went up, Vlade wouldn’t just take the classic posture of standing his ground and sspreading his arms wide — he extended both arms straight behind him to keep Rodman from moving laterally, then backed away from the basket regardless of where the ball went. It was up to any other teammate to get the rebound; Vlade’s sole focus was making sure Rodman didn’t.

      • Dray on his rebounding while guarding Jordan in context:

        “”Stay into his body, stay into his legs,” Green said when asked how he prevented the hulking big man from getting to the rim. “There were a few times when there were rebounds just bouncing to the floor. I can’t go get them because you can’t take a body off him. So my job was just to keep him off the board, and then one of our other guys come get the rebound.””

  93. Its not so ignorant, Feltbots Fake Ladyfriend. OKC-GS 1st round is the likely scenario, whether KD comes back or not.

    Theyll have to go 16-3 by my calculation to take the 7 seed. Its not just about OKC managing to climb. Stats aren’t involved here but I’ve done my amortization of the schedules and personnel, and its not gonna happen. And Carlisle knows theyre doomed if they fall to 8

    Dirk’s still wakes up in cold sweats with SJax’s grill in his face.
    Draymond can be his new pesadilla. He had a much greater effect on the game today than fellow Defensive -MVP candidate DeAndre Jordan. Who’s no Nate Thurmond.

    The Thhunder won’t catch the Spurs either. Cant imagine who Pop would prefer as a first rd match-up. I don’t think he’s too concerned about it, though I would suspect he views the Wubs as at least slightly better than the Grizz.

    I like to think of Liv as a 3. One who can handle, assist, and be in the right place at the right time on both O and D, more than Harrison. But I wanna credit Harrison too- hes a live body, logging minutes (team high 34 today) and contributing best he can.

    MJax raved about how good Shaun has been all year. I don’t think he saw many of the first 48 or so games.

    • In praising Livingston, think MJax was thinking about the backup point guards he had to work with?

      • I wouldn’t blame him. But here’s the irony: the reason GS had such crappy backup PGs last year is that they signed Iguodala to fill the secondary-ballhandler-in-crunch-time role that Jarrett Jack had in 2013. (The reasoning–whether one agrees with it or not–was, “Let’s have a secondary ballhandler who was also a starter, so we don’t have to sit a starter in crunch time.” Also, AI is obviously a vastly better defender than Jack.)

        As everyone saw last year, this led to absolute disaster when Curry (and his fellow starter Iguodala) left the floor. So the GS brain trust decided to spend their entire mid-level exception last summer on a backup PG who met the same criteria of being able to defend & play alongside Curry if needed… only to have him injured during training camp, leading the new coach to move career-long starter Iguodala to the 2nd unit — and the team roaring off to an NBA-best start with the revised rotation.

        All of which led to the duplication everyone has noticed with AI & SL both coming off the bench. Fortunately, since Kerr is a smart coach and AI/Sl both smart players, they’re finally figuring out how to make it work.

        • There is another comparison. The assumption was that Bazemore could fill in at PG—when obviously he couldn’t. But he does have potential at 2 or 3. Some similarities with Livingston, though Baze is still a project under development.

          • Yes, they absolutely tried to shoehorn Bazemore into a backup-PG role he wasn’t able to handle.

            I like Bazemore, and wish he was still with the W’s. Hopefully GS can hang onto Holiday & he tightens up his game enough to give GS next year what Bazemore has been giving ATL recently.

        • Also the reason they had crappy backup point guards is because a backup point guard was never a priority for the team—for years.

          • Jarrett Jack and Livingston are top backup PGs in the entire league. So, only season that is last, warriors didn’t have capable backup PGs.

        • “Iguodala to fill the secondary-ballhandler-in-crunch-time role that Jarrett Jack had in 2013”

          Except MJ never played Iguodala in that role.

          Also, I was confident the coaching staff will figure out Iguodala and Livingston, seems like they finally do. This creates an interesting situation for off season. If Livingston can fill in the role of Iguodala, then what to do with Iguodala ??

      • Naw, MJax just got it wrong. He doesn’t do his homework, one of the reasons they fired his silly ass.

    • FeltbotsFakeGirlfriend

      You are ignoring the fact that the Pelicans could easily catch the Thunder. They are only 1 game back and own the tie breaker. I’m not saying they will be the 7th seed. I am saying they may not make the playoffs. Keep your blinders on.

    • basic addition, without amortization agonies, tells us that SA finishing 10-10 in its remaining games gets them to 49 wins, which requires OK to go 14-5 to match. wild guess, < .20 chance (1 in 5) of that happening, but there are four health variables at least, parker + leonard, durant + westbrook. SA reaching fifty wins or higher just makes the squeeze tighter of course. o.t.o.h. Dal looks like it might only go .500 in its remaining games, and if that goes down, sixth might be in SA's reach.

    • I’ve got my blinders on. If SA and OKC finish 7 and 8 one positive is that Memphis will take one on and someone pretty good will be knocked out. Don’t know if its even possible but would hate for the Wubs to have to go thru both of the aforementioned teams.
      Pelicans are an extreme longshot for playoffs.

      • some details. Dal has seventeen games remaining, while SA still has twenty, giving them a little extra space to make up the gap. they’ll play each other home and home, they each have to play OK twice, and Mem one more time. Dal still has two games vs. GS remaining, SA just one. Mem will play GS two more times. either a one game margin between sixth and seventh, or a tiebreaker appears the likely end.

        • Maui Nellie

          Dubs are 3-0 vs Dallas with one game remaining, Apr 4 @ the Mavs. The very next night (Apr 5) GSW is @ the Spurs for the rubber game in this season’s series with SA.

        • I’m afraid Popovich has his eye on the 6th spot and will make sure they get it. Then the dubs may get get OKC followed by SA. It’s funny how the 4 and 5 seeds will have an easier first round than the 1. And since we’re the one it sucks too

          Just lookin at the way things are now, no new backup PG in sight, Shaun can at least take some of the pressure and resulting wear and tear off Steph (if not minutes unfortunately) come playoffs, as he is a capable ball handler who can bring the ball up the floor under pressure, and initiate the O, however (in)efficient it may be.

          But that’s viewing the beer mug half full. And it’s warm. And flat.

          Time for the mantra

          • after yesterday’s games, SA has the same losses as the rivers gang, with one less win. they have their players on the court again from ailments, while griffin is still out. if Por struggles without matthews, fourth place is possible for SA.

  94. Is it worth mentioning that Livingston was -3 in the first half, and -8 in the second half, when playing without Curry?

    That the Warriors played a short stint without both Curry and Livingston in the first quarter, with Iggy and Barbosa handling the point? And were +4?

    That this came in a blowout win against a dispirited team without its two stars of both the first and second units, struggling through a meaningless noon road game? And Livingston still couldn’t lead his unit?

    It is not a shock to me that Livingston looks great playing with four AllStars who can shoot the three — that was exactly what made him look great in Brooklyn. And it’s exactly what is making Barnes look… OK… to some… this season (subbing Bogut for Iggy).

    I would submit that roughly 100 NBA players would look great playing alongside Curry, Klay, Iggy and Dray, getting layups and wide open shots. Probably closer to 200.

    Is that why he’s being paid $5 million per? Or was it to give Curry a solid backup, and lead the second unit?

    Is the Warriors second unit going to be able to give Curry and Klay a blow against OKC? I like seeing Livingston get Barnes’ crunchtime smallball minutes, but what I’m focused on with Livingston is what happens when Curry is off the floor.

    It hasn’t been good, and it’s about to get worse.

    • What I can’t remember is how many times during that 3-1/2 minutes Livingston actually ran the offense. Iguodala was on the floor with him.

      But I’m playing the home game, and there isn’t a backup pg in the set. The question that intrigues me is why Livingston is only now getting the minutes with Curry. I do see a net gain for the team, even though, inevitably, Curry will be taxed later if Liv et al. can’t hold a lead. After all, we don’t want to mess with the chemistry the team has built all season.

    • Kerr, at the post game podium, said Livingston was effective with Curry and Thompson with the floor spread by perimeter blitzes. He said he’s getting Livingston into the games more with Curry and Thompson. As rgg said, appears Iguodala will run the team in the absence of Curry.

    • the nice get away run in the second quarter happened when barnes came in for bogut and the unit on the floor was barnes, livingston, green, curry, thompson to close out the quarter – from 41-38 to 57-50 (with the biggest lead ballonning to 10 at 53-43).
      minor detail – but both barnes and livingston looked good in the unit with two all stars and one all around beast,who might or might not become one (all-star) in future.

    • Felt, think you said you didn’t watch the game or may be you did. Over last 5 minutes, everyone including Barnes and Lee were pathetic and it looked like Livingston Vs Clippers. +/- stats are misleading in this game for Livingston. In the end he manged to have 0, that itself is an accomplishment.

  95. Austin Rivers says LAC can beat the Dubs without Griffin and Crawford.

  96. Reposting here thought worth it. Draymond on guarding much bigger Jordan and then the rebounding:

    “”Stay into his body, stay into his legs,” Green said when asked how he prevented the hulking big man from getting to the rim. “There were a few times when there were rebounds just bouncing to the floor. I can’t go get them because you can’t take a body off him. So my job was just to keep him off the board, and then one of our other guys come get the rebound.””

  97. Livingston is a terrific player. Too bad
    size and defense not appreciated. It takes
    offense to get fan’s attention. Kind of
    sad. He’s a ballplayer. Not important
    what position he plays. Coach can have
    other players create for others.
    Anyone can get assist throwing ball to
    Curry, Thompson, and Curry on perimeter.

    The HS team I’m helping made it to
    Northern championship game of State
    in their bracket. Brought Warrior
    basketball to HS ball. Need to win
    Wednesday to advance to State championship
    game on Saturday. Now 26-3. We beat some
    of the beat teams in nation as five
    of those team’s won State championships
    last year.

    • I’m pretty sure everyone on this forum appreciates Livingstons size and defense. I also appreciate his movement without the ball and his passing.

    • Congrats on your HS team, Frank. My son played high school and AAU b-ball, and they did go a round or two into the playoffs. I didn’t coach but of course went to the games. These are among my best memories of living here.

  98. Phoenix:

    Man, Curry is a great player. Nothing else, by comparison, is worth talking about.

  99. (Intermission)

    This (long) short story has just appeared, and I was asked to pass on word. We’ve talked about the Middle East a lot here, and just about everything else under the sun.

    This one will take you back a bit. It is set during the day of the invasion of the first Gulf war—note the date—and covers a host of issues, none of them yet resolved. Eliot’s Four Quartets receive much attention. The narrator may help you through. Necessarily, it is a slow read.

    Promotion, from the site:

    “The story itself begins with a meditation on T. S. Eliot and then a Silicon Valley garden and only by degrees turns to its hidden agenda and the arch parallels that drive its meaning. What this story signals is that after the first wave of political commentary and battle memoirs, the Iraq war has now begun to thread its way into the upper reaches of high art, from journalism it has begun to be turned into literature.”


    “The deadline approaches for invasion, 9:00 here, noon in Washington, some other time in the Gulf, soon to pass. Rumors of last minute negotiations. Nothing will come of either. Bush won’t give this war up—he needs it. But he won’t commit troops as long as he can keep up the aerial attacks. And it has been a clean, pretty war for us, the U.S., from what we see on the tube. Vast stretches of desert sands, the floral splendor of night raids over Baghdad—the bombing will continue. We will keep bombing until there isn’t anything left.”

    As always, read for character and context. It is a highly ironic story—the narrator is wrong about a lot of things.

    • Excellent story, rgg, even though I hate being told how to read something. Plus we’re all wrong about a lot of things. Especially liked these lines:

      The morning chill has already burned off and the warm air caresses with­out crowding, as if you belonged here, as if the world were a place where you could live without protection.

      The only green has been the weeds, which she pulls as soon as she sees them.

      …she knows I don’t appreci­ate what has been lost.

      And of course the quintessential rgg:

      I suspect if I did, though, I would only be disappointed

      Thanks for posting!

      • Thank you so much for reading, Mary, and my apologies for directions. I’ve heard some odd misreadings of the story. It’s hard to know what you can get away with now. This age doesn’t handle irony well or see how it works.

        “The way up is the way down.”

        There’s a point here.

  100. Is Jones just a goof ball, or was his bump encouraged, either directly or indirectly? Rivers was real sarcastic about Draymond being a “tough guy”.

    They face-off again down in LA on the 31st. I suppose Griffin and Crawford will be back for that one.

    • I read Rivers’ “tough guy” comment as motivation for his team, trying to make the best of a stupid situation.

      Jones is an idiot. He personally paid $10,000 for the bump. His team can’t pay the fine for him even if Rivers told him to do it.

      For his part, Dray handled it perfectly. If he had ignored it, no fine. Dray has lots of experience in front of a mike.

      • To me, it was hilarious how Green imitated Jones looking at him before the bump.

        • Yeah, that was great!

          It was also very cool that Dray didn’t bother to wait for a team official to bring up NBA review of the incident, he called for it himself. What a pro! Compared to that, Rivers’ “tough guy” comeback sounded childish.

          • Yea, very certain and aware thinking, making evident Green is a future head coach, no GM-Head Coach, if he wants.

  101. Bogut was +30 tonight, though he looked tired and could not or would not jump.

    Why did Kerr pull Ezeli for Bogut in the 4th quarter? Inserting Bogut was unnecessarily grinding him, imo.

    Better yet, leave Bogut back in the Bay Area to rest. The game tonight was the 2nd of a back-to-back, and the next game is in Oakland on Wednesday.

    • On a night he got 7 boards and was 1-1, +30 may not mean anything more than that he happened to be on the court while Curry and Thompson were stroking it. Curry, especially, picks his spots to start firing, usually with the starters.

      If Bogut were injured, you’d think they’d rest him. Bogut has looked creaky a lot, especially the last months. He seems good for maybe 10 minutes tops. It looks like it’s hard for him to just get going. He may just be wearing down from his injuries and the wear and tear of being big, which is understandable, but not promising for the playoffs or the two more seasons yet to come.

      Kerr made a comment early in the season that he didn’t plan to pull Bogut crunch time if opponents started hacking him to send him to free throw line. That sounds like it means Kerr intends to close with Bogut, but that’s not necessarily the case. It may have just been a way to push him to improve his free throws—and he has improved.

      • “+30 may not mean anything more than that he happened to be on the court while Curry and Thompson were stroking it.”

        May not mean anything ? Are you serious ? Did you read what you have written before you posted ?

          • huh ??

            Try to put some logic in what you are saying. If you say a +5 is by product of Klay and Curry, you might be okay but +30 doesn’t happen unless all the 5 players on the floor contribute. Again, logic, try sometimes.

    • Just a tactical, game-time adjustment.

      In the 4th, Hornacek went with both Morrises (6’9″ each), and Kerr countered with Bogut. Then Hornacek added Alex Len (7’1″), and Kerr countered by replacing Barnes with Green. It’s all here:

  102. Apologies but I have a lot of stuff going on at the moment. Also, doesn’t it feel as if we’re in a state of suspended animation right now? Kerr’s rotations and system have crystallized, a one seed seems guaranteed, thus very low stakes until the playoffs. I might not post before the weekend.

    • “The issue is that while the Warriors do play significantly better than their opponents with Lee on the court, his on/off splits don’t in any way approximate the standout numbers the Warriors as a whole are managing against other teams.”

      Dwyer is simply repeating something he’s been told, and it’s a theory. You can’t argue against results, but no other lineups, specifically with Lee, have been tried to provide evidence for other—and possibly better—solutions. It’s impossible to know how Lee might perform in any lineup.

      A lot of things don’t fit the theory well, good as the record is, most notably the weaknesses in the starters at 1 and 3. Lee doesn’t fit the new offensive strategy well, largely because of his lack of a 3 point shot, but neither do the other two. As for his midrange shot, it’s hard to tell because he’s rarely set up for one and hasn’t taken many.

      Not sure what Dwyer means by playing better with Lee on the court, when you look at how he’s played and with whom, unless he’s referring to last year’s numbers.

      • I didn’t understand the stats in the article. They seemed contradictory. Laudrison is all over the on/off stats, tweeting them out. Maybe EvanZ, moto, hat, or Felt can make sense of it. Too much for me.

        In any case, the offense and line-ups have crystallized, as Felt accurately puts it. And I like what I see — Curry with the 4 6-7 Wings (Draymong being one of them) and other spells with a Rim Protector (Bogut or Ezeli).

        My primary concern is can the Warriors go the Chamionship without Curry playing 40+ minutes/game?

        My secondary concern is can Bogut hold-up physically thru-out an extended play-offs? That concern, at least for me, is ameolated by the return of Ezeli and the emergence of the afore-mentioned Curry + Green + 3 other 6-7 guys.

        Great era to be a Warriors fan, including this forum.

        • Actually, moving Livingston with the starters is a recent move and seems to be what he’ll do in the playoffs. Again, same question I asked before—why did Kerr wait so late to do this?

        • I’m with you, Marc, I didn’t feel like the stats he cited really explained anything.

          I do think Lee will get his chance, though. I doubt Bogut will be able to play significant minutes through 3-4 playoff series, and Green at C is simply not always feasible (against Memphis, for example).

          The odd thing for me is that I’d be surprised if Lee didn’t routinely outperform Bogut in practice. Lee’s been destroying big slowpokes his whole career.

          • warriorsablaze

            Bogut and Lee aren’t in direct competition, so their relative practice performances are irrelevant.

            Even if you want to play Lee at the 5, his competition for small ball 5 is now with Green… who brings much better defense without any drop-off in unit offense (even if his personal numbers are lower).

            Lee isn’t going to be much help at C against Memphis either.

          • Sadly, WAB, I think you might be right. It seems that Kerr considers Lee a 4/5 (modified) Triangle Post Big, which negates his primary offensive advantage against other bigs, his quickness (relative to a Bogut-type).

            If the 2nd unit played Lee in PnR, he’d routinely DESTROY Bogut. But that’s not how Kerr wants to play him. For some reason.

            Re a Lee/Green front line, I beg to differ over the results. Lee has done just fine against Memphis, handling either Gasol or Randolph as well as anyone does. In fact, he’s done especially well against Gasol when cross-matched with Bogut defending Randolph.

            Lee also gets more rebounds than Green, and he scores more reliably, at a higher percentage, than Green. Especially when he’s playing next to Green. Do you seriously think Iggy/Livingston/Barnes is a realistic alternative? C’mon now.

          • Warriors 108, Grizzlies 82

            Lee 23 points and 11 boards



            Lee, did in fact play center to close the game out—look at the game flow. Gasol wasn’t in the lineup, but Koufos was in at center. What perhaps is most significant in the lineups is the limited minutes given to Green, obviously then a superior player to Barnes, yet Barnes was given the minutes. Check the box score. Do you think this was MJax’s decision?

          • Here’s a close loss, in which Lee scored 26:


            And another loss, with Ezeli instead of Bogut:


            Note again Green and Barnes’ minutes.

          • Lee’s dwindling minutes can probably be explained away by Kerr in a game-by-game post analysis of matchups and overall game flow but the bigger picture explanation is pretty obvious at this point in regards Lee’s long term future with the team. Hopefully he can play a part in some big postseason wins, a la Travis Ishikawa and Joe Panik during last season’s playoff run for the Giants.

          • warriorsablaze

            Solid cherry-picking, rgg… your specialty. Note that Gasol didn’t even play in the first game you cited, and Lee was a -6 (worst of the starters) in the second.

            Carmelo gets lots of points and rebounds, too… those stats don’t impress me. How many points did Lee give up on D? Not just his man, which he does Ok with usually, but in all the help defense he didn’t provide? Does the team rebound better when he plays or does he just personally get more rebounds? There’s a difference. I’ve seen stats that show the latter in the past… when I have time I’ll see if I can dig them up again.

          • warriorsablaze

            Iggy/Livingston/Barnes may in fact be a great alternative. If the plan to beat Memphis is to win in grind it out fashion, we’re screwed. Our best strategy is to run the big men off the floor.

          • Utter bullshit, WaB. I’ve shown you the best evidence that can be produced to show Lee can produce against Memphis, at both roles. I think if Lee put up 50 points and 20 boards against Memphis, you’d still dismiss it. You defend a nonproducer like Barnes, and dismiss a proven player.

          • Those are all closely fought battles. But you’ve missed the most important point of all. How would Lee produce with a healthy, experienced center? With Green at the 3 and later 4? Again note Green’s limited minutes in all games.

            But of course you would go with the crowd and complain about his defense. I gave you close to an orchard and you can’t even see the cherries.

          • warriorsablaze

            Very pleasant, as always. Just because it’s the “best evidence that can be produced…” doesn’t mean it’s good evidence.

            Lee is a good player, he’s just overrated here. I hope Kerr can find a role that allows him to contribute.

  103. “The Warriors with Draymond Green at center, surrounded by wing shooters: unguardable.” – Zach Lowe

  104. Mo money for Mo Speights (and everyone else) coming to an NBA team near you in 2016.

    • So no mo’ Mo? He seems to be marginalized now anyway. But I don’t understand this. Looks like the cap will be huge next year—but then fall back?

      • Not fall out, then ‘lock out’

      • the cap is directly derived as a percentage of basketball related income, and will be ballooning from the fattest part of that income radically changing with the new broadcasting contracts. the cap will not be shrinking unless significant reductions fissure in the non-broadcast income.

        if the team takes speights’ option for next season, he will be a free agent just as the cap increases dramatically. the failure of the ‘cap smoothing’ proposal could not affect what he makes next season ; if it had been approved, it would change things for players now negotiating deals for this July and forward. good to hear no nonsense decisions and straight explanations from the new chief of the union.

        • Speights and Barnes going to get benefited from cap increase as it increases when they become free agents. Wonder if Green wants to take one year contract with the hope of scoring bigger contract in 2016.

  105. Scout talking about Draymond Green:

    “He’s one of those guys who’s a product of the system,” an anonymous scout told Howard Beck of Bleacher Report. “I’d be very uncomfortable paying him zillions of dollars. He is situationally [valuable]. He’s got two great point guards, he gets a lot of surplus stuff from them. He’s a good rebounder. He’s a complementary guy. But he’s going to get paid like a second or third option, probably.”

    “I would be cautious, if I’m any team other than Golden State,” the scout said. “I’m not sure his talents are totally transferable. He’s just not that talented. He does the little things, he can guard, he’s a winning player. What they like about him is his leadership; he’s become the leader of that team. I’m not sure that’s transferable.”

    Just happy that that scout didn’t work for the Warriors when the 35th pick in the draft came up back in 2012.

    • scouts like this are the reason d’mond wasn’t picked until the second round. green and his agent need just one team with the budget $$ to be convinced he merits a fat offer, to take his price into auction level rather than straight two-party negotiation.

      similar things were said about Wunderkind barnes and his tar heels, featuring henson and zeller providing the dirty work and much of the scoring, marshall the ball handling, but he had age and his fantasy ‘ceiling’ in his favor. he’d probably be a lottery pick somewhere if the woeyrs didn’t take him at seven. the scouts were less impressed with what green had done in lansing, though clearly their leader and most valuable player, with accomplishments reached by only one of their former players, e. johnson.

    • Agree with the scout. In essence, Warriors and Green need to stick with each other. Warriors team getting best of Green and a great fit. Green, if he goes to a team that requires more scoring for him, his below average offense will expose him. Same with Bogut. I expect Green to be paid what ever needed to retain him, but if I am Green, I will be wary of pushing it too hard.

    • The year the basketball people got to draft.

      • Felty, are you saying Lacob drafted Barnes and the “basketball people” drafted Ezeli and Green?

        • Yes, Lacob drafted Barnes, and Larry Riley discovered and pushed for Ezeli and Green. Well Chronicled, in the Chronicle.

          But no, that’s not what I was actually saying. I got confused and thought Klay was in that draft. He was Jerry West’s pick.

          Don’t know why I let BR confuse me. Of course they think Barnes was part of a draft for the ages. Of course.

  106. 2:25 left in the third. Wubs up 1. Feel confident we’ll win.
    Drummonds kinda the anti-Bogut. He can run, leap and move. Andre with more experience, better teammates, and hoops intangibles that Drummond doesn’t have. He reminds me of DeAndre J, more potential tho.
    Of course, I wouldn’t mind him on the Warriors

    • Shush. We got Barnes.

      • Ouch, that was a big miss by Myers, drafting Barnes ahead of Drummond. Drummond was my pick and was surprised he was still there. Atleast it is not as bad as Udoh over Monroe.

        • way, way worse. Incomparably worse.

          • Barnes tradeable and starting SF of best team in the league, Udoh, not in rotation. I have to disagree. Myers did a mistake, Riley did a monumental mistake.

  107. Pistonz:

    Actually, it was heartening to see the subs step up. Iguodala looked like one of the sharpest players on the floor. I love to see him drive. Barbosa added his madness. Also Speights did come out firing and hitting after so little play. He often looks bad on defense at first, and sure did tonight, but he picked it up again. 2 blocks, 5 boards, 3 drawn charges. They’re ugly but they count. And it’s the Mo and Shaun Livingston combo that keeps Lee off the court—Mo can bail Livingston out with his shot, as he did tonight. I don’t know why Bogut can’t score more like that. Truth be told, however, he lost the rebound battle bad.

    And logic tells us it was a great game by Barnes. He was +10 at the half, highest on the team. He shot at high efficiency, 67%. And he didn’t rack up fouls so he could stay on the court.

    • Bogues lost the rebounding battle but we won the war, and he helped. He’s still a defensive presence. I sense (hope) he’s pacing himself for the playoffs, and that’s sound strategy.
      I realize OKC is at 9 now. And ADavis is a great one-man team. But the Dubs are headed for a showdown with the thunder. If the thunder self-destruct I’d be delighted with the Pelicuns at the 8spot..
      SA now 6th. So we’ll play them too most likely. Its gonna be brutal, but some great hoops to witness.

      Steph and Klay, tonite Dray also, the 3 best players on the court. We’re a bit jaded on this blog.

      Cartier Martin is an NBA survivor.

      Leandro is okay as a backup to the backup PG. But if the Blur has to play key playoff minutes, Yikes!

      • OKC has better role players now, and they are stepping up. If Durant returns to form, they could be scary, virtually a 1 vs 2 in the first round. Maybe the Dubs should drop 15 so they can fall to 2nd. and face Dallas?

      • Wouldn’t be surprised if Warriors 1st rd opponent was the Mavs, with Thunder moving up to 7. Or Mavs may miss the playoffs completely, and Ws face NO.

      • FeltbotsFakeGirlfriend


        You should have taken a look at the teams schedules before you made such a bold statement that it was set it was set in stone. If you had you would have seen there is a great chance the Mavs fall to the 8th spot. The Pelicans also own the tiebreaker over the Thunder.

  108. I love Kerr dumping his second unit triangle and motion, and simply putting the ball in Livingston’s hands to run pick and roll and pick and pop with Speights. Such a huge difference.

    Now if he’d only let David Lee play the same way.

    • Problem is Kerr will play “triangle elements” when DLee is in the game, since he is the only guy who can, a Catch-22.

  109. @feltbot: Kerr has it half right with David Lee. No, he can’t match up with stretch fours. But he can beat big centers in pick and roll all day long.

    As Don Nelson put it: He’s a good PF, but an AllStar center.

    • You are misquoting or quoting Don Nelson out of context. For this team, Nellie said he will play Lee at C only for few minutes. I would also think that like Kerr, Nellie would have liked Speights at backup C more than Lee.

      You already know that, I copy pasted his interviews but you still insist on saying this over and over.

      • If you have an interview suggesting that, I’d love to see it. Please copy the link again.


          “-Q: Yep. But that was as a small-ball 4. Do you think Barnes is better off as a power forward?

          -NELSON: Not with what they have there now, with Lee… They’ve got a nice big team now. Lee would be your power forward. I’d probably use Lee as a back-up center as well. Match-ups… guys that can play more than one position, I always wanted those guys.”

          • 1) I am not quoting Nellie out of context. That’s what he said and he meant it. And it also happens to be truth. Lee made the Allstar team from the center position.
            2) I disagree with your reading of this interview. I’ve watched Nellie’s every game for close to 20 years, and imo he would start Lee at PF, but play him at center when he could exploit matchups, and particularly in crunch time.

          • How would he become all star C if he starts at PF. He also talked high of Bogut and also said that Lee can’t guard anyone so go to him all the time on offense. If he has this year version of Speights, I don’t think he would play Lee ahead of Speights even as backup C.

            Anyway, didn’t expect you to change your narrative with the facts in front of you.

  110. Kinda funny tho irritating. Only from a serious Warriors fans point of view though:
    My friend was over for this one. For her, ignorance is bliss regarding sports. iPad in one hand and her phone in the other, she spent a decent part of the game next to me on the couch. And I gotta say it was distracting, to put it kindly.
    Dray went coast-to-coast mid first quarter and I let out a whoop. She seemed to be looking at the TV while deep in thought. Then she asked why the basket counted two points. I said becuz thats what a standard NBA basket counts. She thought they counted as one point. So I explained the differnce between a 1, 2, and 3 ptr and I believe she started to conceptualize it all.

    Later she asked me, if height was so important in hoops, why didn’t a team just “hire” all 7-footers? I attempted to explain some of the nuances of it all but was interrupted as she took a call. After she hung up she postulated that if it was all tall guys they could just play “keep-away”, even do away with dribbling, throw it to the tallest guy and he could make the bucket..
    She had so many novel comments that I’m actually thinkin shes some sort of savant, and maybe Vivek in Sacto should look into hiring her as a bench coach.
    She was oohing and aahing when they showed close-ups of Harrison and I could tell she was impressed. Not when he was soaring to the rim but just standing there, sweating.

  111. cosmicballoon

    Bogut played 30+ minutes last night…a fairly monumental effort for him. He’s averaging a career low 23.8 mpg this year. I bring this up because I question Kerr’s strategy against the Pistons. It seemed like an optimal time to unleash the smallball lineup that has been so devastating, but instead, Kerr leaned on Bogut to try to combat Detroit’s two-headed Godzilla.

    Was this a game where Kerr wanted to measure Bogut’s effectiveness, or is Kerr’s philosophy to try to match big with big? And where was DLee? Festus? Green is having to work too hard for too many minutes against the likes of Monroe/Drummond.

    • Isn’t this small ball ??

      Bogut with Green or Barnes at PF
      Speights with Green or Barnes at PF

    • Kerr could have gone with a Lee/Green front line last night, or even better, Bogut/Lee/Green.

      In all the happy talk over the win, this can’t be overlooked: Bogut was DESTROYED last night, eaten alive. Drummond alone got 17 offensive rebounds (27 total!) against the big fella. And Monroe didn’t have too many problems against Green, either: 20 points + 8 boards.

      All those 2nd-chance points made it a very close game. And it was unnecessary. Add Lee to the mix and Drummond/Monroe get half as many rebounds. That’s Lee, that’s what he does, even if Kerr squashes his offense with “Triangle Concepts.”

      • warriorsablaze

        Are you sure that’s what Lee does? SportsVu data from last season seems to say different.

        Of course, this is smallish sample and includes the author’s interpretations… but feel free to spin it however you like. Lee gets rebounds, but the team doesn’t get more rebounds when he’s on the floor. Maybe he lowers Drummond/Monroe’s totals for the game, or maybe Dray, Bogut, etc… just end up with a few fewer and we end up the same result.

        • This piece is a mess. It begins with bad data and questionable assumptions about the data, then builds from there.

          • warriorsablaze

            Well, of course you say that because you went in with the desire to dismiss it. Care to discuss why it’s “bad data” other than the fact it disparages a favored player of yours?

            It’s interesting that your 2 games of David Lee box score stats were solid evidence.

          • The argument is pure garbage for any player. And why has been covered here before. Why do it again? You’ll only ignore it. Your major critical method seems to be to question the integrity of people who say things you disagree with, and there is no reason to think that will change.

          • FeltbotsFakeGirlfriend


            The fact that you want to use a meager 2 games to show how great David Lee proves that you have no clue. Please give a larger sample size. Oh wait you can’t because you were unable to find anymore. Funny how when Barnes has a great game you dismiss it as a fluke but when Lee has one you climb to the top of a mountain and scream how great he is.

          • FFG (WaB won’t bother to look at this):

            The statement WaB made was “Lee isn’t going to be much help at C against Memphis either.” I don’t know where he gets these things, but have a good idea.

            So I went back and looked at Lee’s actual performance against Memphis for 3 games, including the game log. Two games were exceptional, the other good. I’ve looked at all his games, and his performance has varied from OK to excellent. In the early years, you have to factor in his first year he had little help at center at all, Bogut’s injury, and his performance with a rookie. Overall, in spite of all, he has performed well.

            What more evidence do you need that Lee might be useful against Memphis?

            And I really don’t want to hear the answer, because it will not make sense.

            How does Lee perform against other centers or 4s? We could review those games. And this has been done here time and time again. And again, factor in coaching woes and problems in the lineup. He’s not a one man band.

            His overall +/- in lineups at 4 or 5, especially last year, which are extraordinarily impressive, have been cited here repeatedly the last weeks.

            With no effect.


        • Read the article. Interesting stuff. A couple of points:

          1. The author says Lee doesn’t box out, but offers zero evidence for that point. My eyes disagree. He boxes out better than an immobile Bogut. A whole lot better. In fact,

          2. Lee’s ability to box out is precisely what leads to so many “uncontested” rebounds. His opponent doesn’t even try for the ball when Lee’s got position.

          3. Acquiring a low percentage of “contested” rebounds is at least partially due to the fact that Lee has played as the sole “big” in all of the Ws smallball lineups of the past 3 years. If any man has ever been an island, Lee was, while playing against all sorts of lineups, including full-sized big-ball front lines. Context is everything. Of course, Lee is also kinda small and not very hoppy besides. He’s a “below-the-rim” “position guy.” He works hard for rebounds before they hit the rim.

          Lee a bad rebounder? No way. Lee career average 9.6 rebounds/game. Dray this year 8.2/game, career 5.3. If Lee’s a bad rebounder, Draymond sucks. And Dray’s not a bad rebounder.

          • hat,

            There are quite a few not great rebounders who got rebounds like Lee like Troy Murphy for instance. In my opinion, I don’t think he boxes out either, not the way Bogut boxes out. Why Green averages only 8.2 rebs per game, I think he already said why. Team rebounding increases if Lee sits, that is the evidence right there. ESPN had an article saying the same about DeAndre Jordan, rebounding rate remains same when he sits.

            Bogut is much better rebounder than Lee. Last year, Bogut was #3 and Lee #40 at rebounds per 48 minutes stat.


          • Harry, thanks for your reply. Troy Murphy career 7.8 rebounds/game, 10.8 pts./game. Nope, not equivalent. 20% fewer rebounds with roughly half the points.

            Bogut boxes out? Tell it to Andre Drummond’s 27 rebounds! 17 (SEVENTEEN!!!!) OFFENSIVE rebounds! Ahem… give me a sec… I’ll try to reign in my disgust over Bogut’s feeble attempts to box out anyone at all. A pile of coat hangers would have been a bigger obstacle to Drummond last night. After all, he only averages 10 rebounds a night. No… wait… aaaarrgh! Relapse attack! TWENTY-SEVEN MOTHERFRIGGIN REBOUNDS! WTF? WTF? WTF? WTF? WTF? WTF? WTF? WTF?

            With all due respect, Harry, I humbly beg to differ on your opinion about Bogut’s boxing out thingie, and his rebounding in general.

        • This study is utter bullshit, resting on fallacious assumptions. Had this discussion with EvanZ last year and he wound up concurring.

          Lee is a position rebounder. When he does his work early and gets position, that’s called “uncontested”. BS. When Lee has to “contest” a defensive rebound, he’s already failed.

          • utter bullshit because it contradicts your opinion ?? How about rebounds for 48 minutes stat for last year, Bogut #3 and Lee #40 which translates to him as average rebounder and Bogut among the best in the league.

          • Exactly. What I said.

          • Harry, Bogut was seriously abused last night. I don’t happen to think it was his fault. Any lineup with a 6’6″ PF is playing smallball, no matter how amazing that 6’6″ guy is (and The Hat is his biggest fan). Bogut had to patrol the paint practically alone, and he did as well as anyone could, playing against 2-on-1 odds for boards (my point about Lee, if you remember).

            It would have worked better, and the game would have been less challenging for the whole team, if Bogut had Lee next to him, with Green playing the 3.

            Our smalls are better than almost anyone’s. But our bigs are too. If only Kerr would only use them.

        • Disagree. DLee, if nothing else, is a good defensive rebounder and can prevent opponent offensive boards like we saw last night.

    • Really did not like to see Bogut play 30 minutes in this game (or any game for the remainder of the regular season). 20 minutes max. His role is rim protection, and if he can provide 25 to 30 minutes of that per game during the play-offs, then he earned his salary. Bogut has not looked good to me out there, but is good enough for what the Warriors need out of him. Did you see him take that unreasoned fall last night?

      • Yeah, either his leg gave out or he chose not to trust it. Now let’s put Bogut on the floor for 20 more games, then do games 83-110 (or whatever) in the playoffs.

        Calling David Lee…

        • He rightly choose to fall straight down on his big rear-end, so as not to stress his wrists or elbows either. That was a pretty nasty fall, especially when its him.

      • cosmicballoon

        Here’s my hypothesis on the Bogut minutes and the style of game the Warriors played last night.

        The game plan was for Bogut to challenge Drummond’s shots rather than play his usual rim-protector/rebounder role. Bogut was more active than usual in trying to defend Drummond. You could tell by watching that he was fully engaged. Did it work? Not really. What happened was that Bogut was out of position to rebound which left Draymond exposed against the taller Monroe. It also allowed Drummond to go right around Bogut for prime rebounding position. DLee’s style of defense — basically keep your man in front of you — would have been perfect in this game.

        In the grand scheme of things it didn’t matter that Drummond got 17 ORs. What mattered was that Dray and Steph had poor shooting nights. For Dray, this was acceptable because of the work he was having to do on defense. For Steph, he just looked tired. You can tell he’s tired because he’s not attacking the rim like in previous games.

        Which brings me to the clipped Falcon. Why only 3 shots? This is a game where any amount of assertiveness results in double-digit scoring. Look at what Iggy did. Look at Livvy. Barnes simply doesn’t step up to the plate very often, and it’s kinda pathetic.

        • Yeah, and with Green at the 3, he gets the same shots he got last night. No one runs plays for Green, he just gets open. Barnes doesn’t work to get open.

        • Barnes was on the Warriors round-table with Tim Roye, and said he’s learning the NBA game and starting to get the feel for it.

      • the team has certainly established it can win, and at times overwhelm, in the regular season with bogut in a very defined and limited role. as successful as the coaches have been in many aspects of the team’s game, in no small part due to bringing out the best of the team’s best players (at the season’s start most would put bogut in the top three, but green has become no worse than tied for second best), they have been rather less successful in working out who will best accommodate the 20 + min. bogut won’t play per game, other than their utility mule green.

  112. Hard to believe we’re even having this discussion about whether David Lee is a good rebounder. He’s been one of the best rebounders in the league for over 10 years.

    As for the idea he doesn’t improve his team’s rebounding, you really have to have your head all the way up your ass to believe that. Last year the Warriors’ rebound rate was 50.8%. This year, with Bogut healthier, their rebound rate is down in the bottom half of the league, at 49.3%. That is a huge dropoff. What accounts for it, do you think?

    Please don’t hurt yourself trying to think up reasons that don’t involve Lee being benched.

    Other numbers for the prejudiced brain dead to ignore:

    Rebs per 36min this season:

    Bogut 12.2
    Lee 11.1
    Speights 9.8
    Green 9.2
    Barnes 7.1

    Total Reb% last season:

    Bogut 20.8%
    Lee 15.6%

    Total Reb % this season:

    Bogut 18%
    Lee 16.9%
    Ezeli 15.9%
    Speights 14.9%
    Green 13.5%
    Barnes 10.4%

    I’m not sure how you can look at this and not understand what Lee does to help his team on the boards, BY BOXING OUT. He’s not only the second best rebounder on the team, but he clearly helped Bogut rebound last year. Bogut’s rebound rate was nearly 3% higher. HUGE.

    Last year, the starting C-PF combo took down 36.4% of available rebounds. This year, 31.5%. (Obviously there is some noise in these numbers due to different rotations, but in both seasons Bogut’s minutes are played almost exclusively with the starting PF on the floor, so I think these numbers rock solid for our purpose.)

    I’m not going to waste any more time on this ridiculous point. There are many good ways to argue for Kerr’s choices this season without resorting to making up nonsense. David Lee is one of the great rebounders in the league, and Kerr has sacrificed rebounding, interior scoring, and getting to the line and converting in crunchtime (assuming Lee’s problem this season is temporary), for other edges.

    Carry on.

    • One final point:

      It is very difficult to sustain a high rebound rate with heavy minutes, over the course of a long season. That’s one reason why you see a lot of bench players among the league leaders in rebound rate. The other reason being they play against other bench players. Like Lou Amundson one fateful year, who led Joe Lacob to utter the immortal words “Lou Amundson is THE best rebounder in the NBA, per minute.”

      I think if you restrict your comparison of David Lee’s rebounds per 36 or 48 to those players who averaged an equal or higher number of minutes, you will see him always in the top 10 in the NBA. Always. I think that speaks for itself.

      OK, I’m really done.

    • we will have an interesting off season if the team fails to surpass ten post season wins. other than their success with plugging in green as a back up center, the back ups to bogut were treated like a developmental project all year. when both lee and ezeli were hurt they had little option other than speights or green, but speights’ role was revised as soon as all were healthy.

      if they had hoped to trade lee over the summer, they succeeded in severely undermining his value. they have complete confidence they can succeed without any significant contribution from him, and myers will get to peddle him based on a vague collective memory of the player he was. their p.r. apparatus has been chopping fodder during lee’s virtual suspension about kerr’s praise and respect for lee, and partisan fans buy the ‘winning validates anything’ campaign.

  113. Hat,

    Couple of things, Troy Murphy didn’t play as many minutes as Lee. May be it is just one game that Bogut has off day.

    How about my other post, Lee#40 and Bogut#3 in rebounds per 48 minutes.

    How about stat based on rebounds rate. Bogut at #5 and Lee not in top 50 for last year.

    Every stat and evidence show that Lee is average or below average rebounder. I am not checking this year because it is not fair to compare his stats in limited minutes this year. Bogut, btw, has become worse rebounder this year but still a very good rebounder. Another thing, when dubs needed a rebound over last minute or so, Lee came short many a times from my memory. Green’s average might be lower but he gets it done when needed. Last two sentence, my pure perception.

    I always find you as level headed here with your comments, would love see your response to these two stats.

    • OK Harry. How about you explain how/why DLee should not have been a 2-time All Star. All those guys voting fucked up, twice? What’s your point here?

      • He got selected as starting PF of playoff team for dubs for his 20-10 averages. I never said he didn’t deserve it, you are moving goal post now. The topic was if Lee is better rebounder than Bogut and if Lee is excellent rebounder. My take Bogut better rebounder and Lee an average rebounder and presented it with evidence. Take it or leave it.

        • An average rebounding PF don’t make the All Star team, twice. That’s my evidence, but I don’t tell you what to do with it.

          • Average rebounders can get selected as all stars. Antwan Jamison, Antoine Walker and the list goes on.

          • They’re not PFs. DLee and Bogut both average 0.3 rebounds per minute over their careers.

    • cosmicballoon

      Stop debating this. Please.

      If anything, one of Lee’s strengths was rebounding. His limitations are that he can’t get off the ground to block shots, and he can get bullied by the bigger 4s and 5s who have strong post up games. His rebounding has been superb, not suspect. The eye test will tell you that. Additionally, across their entire careers, Bogut and Lee have the exact same rebounding splits per 36 minutes (Basketball Reference).

      Lee’s other flaws? His jump shot has deserted him for the past several years and he doesn’t draw enough fouls. Also, his free throw shooting has dropped to .65 this year.

    • Harry, granted Troy didn’t average as many minutes as Lee. He wasn’t as good, especially in the paint.

      Before this year, Lee led the league in minutes played among bigs, for 3 years running. That kinda slows down your per-48-min. rebounding rate. It even put him in the hospital for 3 years running.

      Every stat except one might show that Lee is a poor rebounder, but that one is pretty important: total rebounds/game. By that number, he’s been in the top 10 through most of his career.

      Agree that Green gets it done when needed. He’s big-time. One of my favorite things about him.

  114. Terrible time for the Grizzlies to rest all their starters. I’m sweating my Wizards under 49.5 wins bet.

    • Utah, however, broke 25 wins. Were I a gambler, I would have played a hunch, based solely on the coach and some signs preseason. If Utah were in the East, they’d be in the playoff chase. Strange, strange season. Fair is foul, and foul is fair.

      Conley turned his ankle, maybe the reason they decided to rest the others? Barring a collapse from the Warriors, there doesn’t look to any point for Memphis making a charge for first spot. There won’t be any test games at all vs. Atlanta and Memphis. No reason to show their hand now. Maintenance all the way. Strange feeling.

  115. Spurs looking healthy now. The Warriors just haven’t shown they can beat either team.

    Love is a free agent this summer, right? Think he’s staying?

    22 boards, 4 blocks, 19 points for Gobert in Utah’s win over Houston (no Howard). Mobile centers. . . .

  116. Prediction?

    I don’t know how the new cap will work this summer, but it’s hard to believe that Love is happy in Cleveland and that Lacob & Co won’t try to dump Lee, free up that cash (and get a trade exception?), and make another transcendent deal—go after Love. You know they are still thinking about Love. In fact he must be on the top of their wish list. You know they want to prove they are in the game, in fact their success this season will push them, regardless of post season results.

    Love is just an expensive accessory at Cleveland, when they have two studs in Irving and James who can both drive and shoot from the arc as well as pass. The stretch four really means getting Love out of the lane for them, and crunch time Blatt prefers the stronger Thompson to fill in defensive gaps.

    The Warriors by all appearances are serious contenders for a title shot, so Love would find them attractive now. He is also eager to get more action. He insists he is a post player, and Kerr would use him that way, as well as pop him out to the corner for those 3s. I kind of agree with Barkley: he is being wasted.

    So would it work? Would he start 4 with Green at 3 and close at 5? My sense is that the front court would be soft and more exposed. He would make it easier to keep Bogut on the court, however, assuming the Bogut can move up and down it.

    And of course if they did this, they still would not pursue needed role players, say a backup PG. And if Ezeli doesn’t pan out, a center.

    And there will still be the Barnes conundrum, made worse, for whom it will be hard to find any playing time at all.

    • For sure Lacob will move DLee, if he can. Probably MoS too. Can Love play Center?

      • MoS is not going anywhere given the low salary and given that he is actually doing pretty good as backup C, even if as offense only backup C. Resigning will become trickier though, as he might get out of shape after signing the contract.

    • A few fallacies in your fantasies, rgg.

      There’s no such thing as “dumping” a player. Once a player is signed a team will pay him or another team will pay him. Lee is not going anywhere unless there is a taker. So far there haven’t been any, and you know the Ws have tried.

      Lee’s contract expires at the end of next season, but that’s when the league salary cap explodes – so there’s less cap pressure, so there’s little-to-no reason to take on expiring contracts. In short, if Lee is going anywhere else this summer, it will be because a team wants Lee, not his contract. And when his own team benches him, it’s extremely difficult to imagine any other GM in the league jumping to snatch him up.

      Lee is staying. Mo and Livingston are staying for the duration of their contracts. Barnes is staying. The only movable parts are Kuzmic, Rush, Barbosa and the two min.-wage guys. Add up their salaries and it falls far short of Love’s expected near-max contract.

      Dray is looking at a near-max contract this summer too, and that already puts the Ws far over the cap. Think Lacob will go another $20M or so for a player they don’t honestly need? One who plays Draymond’s position? When they still need another shooting wing/backup PG?

      • ” So far there haven’t been any, and you know the Ws have tried.”

        Hard to digest for Lee supporters, but that is true.

        On another point about dumping Lee’s contract, I think a team below cap can trade for Lee without sending any salary back but just the TPE, teams like Knicks and Lakers qualify as such. But, I am not sure if that is exactly how it works.

        • BTW, didn’t mean to come out harsh on David Lee. Without David Lee, warriors might have not even made playoffs last two years and he always presented hope for warriors as long as he is with dubs. David Lee being constant made it easy to build team around him and Curry. It is just that, team has moved on from David Lee this year and for right reasons. I am sure David Lee understands the business and hope he actually finds a new home where he can play a bigger role again. Check the article below that sums up David Lee’s situation as why Speights plays over Lee as backup at C and why he doesn’t get minutes at PF.

          • From the above referenced article:

            “The decision clearly has less to do with Lee than with the Warriors’ depth and playing style. Lee’s individual numbers this season are fine. He averages 8.1 points, 5.6 rebounds and 1.9 assists per game in just 18.4 minutes. As a rim protector, he’s allowing a solid 47.1 field goal percentage on shots he defends close to the basket, a reversal of his reputation. His shot chart shows that he’s been decent at the rim and from mid-range, the areas from which he takes most of his shots.”

        • By “dump” I mean trade, obviously. I’m predicting, not necessarily saying it’s a good move. But I bet it has them salivating.

          • Lacob has always stayed within the cap. But they have shown much eagerness to pull the trigger. They had a way to get Howard a few years back, which would have been expensive and is what got me thinking. Maybe they could try to trade Iguodala or even Bogut. But they won’t have other options. And it’s highly unlikely that they’ll find another Utah who will take on a huge expiring contract. Or two.

            You have to wonder what they’re doing with Lee. It’s obvious he’s not in their plans, but he isn’t being showcased very well this season. Or are the preserving his health—and are his injuries still lingering?

      • Kerr not playing DLee puts pressure on Lacob to somehow, someway move DLee. Kerr just doesn’t want DLee, mainly because he don’t fit his 2 defensive schemes.

        • We drive people crazy with speculations, but we don’t get answers from the organization and there’s a lot that’s hard to explain. I wonder if it isn’t Barnes and the FO’s commitment to him that has pushed Lee to the bench. He is the most problematic and perplexing piece.

        • Well, Lacob could have asked Kerr to ‘showcase’ Lee like he has apparently asked Kerr to ‘showcase’ Barnes.

          • Lacob has a more personal stake in Barnes,.

          • Marc,

            May be you missed the part where Lee was also reported as Lacob’s favorite player and was reluctant to trade him. He is also the one who okayed Lee’s trade, first move he made as owner. Most owners wouldn’t be willing to open the wallet that early without their own FO in place. If we know anything about venture capitalist, he will be ruthless in his moves to improve the organization like offering his both favorite players in the trade for Love.

          • Lee is also one of two holdovers from the “sins of the past,” though as I recall Lacob once falsely took credit for his acquisition.

            The other holdover, of course, is Curry, with whom Lacob was not especially impressed initially. There is good reason to believe he might have traded Curry for Melo.

          • Harry, Lacob approved the DLee trade when he was not yet one of the owners. With Barnes, Lacob conducted the final interview, which is why I believe Lacob has more of a personal (and recent) stake in Barnes.

          • Just now occurred to me, and remember Felt remarking, why not offer Barnes and DLee for Love again? Maybe even include a pick? Maybe The Cavs would bite for the reasons Felt stated. Then Green gets moved to the 3 (my pet move) and Love can rebound like a MoFo and shoot 3’s. Yeah!

    • Hmmm….timely reference rgg.

    • Pops rested the starters in 2nd half and that is why warriors won the game by 11 pts.

      Way to diminish the win of your favorite team, if it is your favorite team. Warriors won the game, period, all else is how you want to twist the result.

      • You only have to compare Parker that game:

        0-4 in 21 minutes, with his performance last night. Leonard still hadn’t come back fully from his injury. Duncan was dragging his feet. Etc. This wasn’t the Spurs we saw last night. Which doesn’t mean the Warriors can’t beat them. It means we don’t have any evidence. We may not learn much their last game, either, as it comes late and the schedule will be set.

        • 2 years back, warriors played a tough series against Spurs on the road losing 4-2. Imagine the current team against Spurs under new coach with more fluid offense and better defense against Spurs with home court advantage. We were also missing our all star PF that time. I like warriors chances this year in a seven game series with home court advantage. Memphis on other hand, can’t be so sure. Looking forward to remaining two games against Memphis.

          • Watching Leonard last night is what really gave me pause. They will be able to pressure the guards and the Warriors don’t have inside scoring. If the role players like Mills step up, they will be tough in the course of 48 minutes. We thought they were worn out two years ago. Parker was injured then and their record in March wasn’t good. Look what happened.

            Or maybe the old men are finally old.

          • rgg,

            good take. It is not going to be easy to win against Spurs, but just that I give slight edge to warriors.

  117. Hey Moto
    I’ve been getting off BART at Lake merritt and going to the Superior court bldg, the Ala. clerks office, and the Oakland public library over the last few days for work. Theyre all real close together but a couple of times, while killing time waiting for the Library to open, I’ve gotten to stroll around the lake, and thru the business district towards Broadway and beyond (I like to walk and its been nice out.) This area has an eclectic vibe with some cool architecture and I’ve been spending too much time lolly-gaggin and not enuff working. The Oakland Hotel is quite a building.
    I was curious about the part of the “downtown” district that’s closer to the Lake as opposed to Broadway. It seems a little dead and I was wondering if its been like this for awhile.
    There alot of people of Asian descent walking around the neighborhood too. Is this a bit of an enclave in that respect? Just curious about his stuff.

    • oakland is constantly passing through various stages of economic stagnation, but in its phases of decline doesn’t hit a bottom like other burgs in serious trouble before sustaining an equilibrium. what you see now is actually a semi-revived state. a fair number of middle class professionals including the lavender crowd find the diversity and living costs a livable compromise. it hasn’t yet attracted quite enough medium to big companies to develop available real estate, nor, it appears, to keep any of its major league sports teams.

      sounds like you live in one of the better districts of the city — sunset or richmond maybe. middle class living has always been significantly more expensive from real estate pressure in SF relative to oaktown. as nice as some areas can be in SF to stroll around and hang out, some of the most commercially developed parts are terrifically ugly. downtown oakland looks like a small town’s centre, but it never got as bad looking as parts of downtown SF or the Mission. if you walked around the lake, the commercial district closest to our front door is the Grand Lake/Lakeshore sector where the 580 freeway descends to the flood basin briefly before ascending eastward toward the hills and san leandro.

    • I get my hair cut down there by a woman from Mongolia. Does a great job and way cheaper than up town. It’s in the central downtown area. China town been expanding up that way in recent years. Several Afgan restaurants. An interesting ambience.

  118. Tonight should be interesting. No Mo—one game suspension for his DUI. Also:

    “Kerr followed through Friday morning, saying that starters Stephen Curry, Klay Thompson and Andrew Bogut will not dress for the game at Pepsi Center. In addition, reserve forward Andre Iguodala also will sit.

    “Forward/center David Lee, the longtime starter who has not played in three of the past four games, will be inserted into the starting lineup to face the Nuggets. With him will be Shaun Livingston, Justin Holliday, Harrison Barnes and Draymond Green.”

    It’s just not fair—Lee still doesn’t play with the starters.

    • Forgot to credit—quotes from Comcast CSN.

      • r.simmons’ twits on is usually the most reliable of the up to the moment notices. not quite as enveloped by the propaganda ministry as comcast.

        lee gets the honorary start over ezeli, and it’s on him, green, and livingston to present respectable competition. we can count on hearing praise for barnes’ stats, with his usage and shot attempts increased.

    • This lineup is just bizarre, and I can’t figure out the rotations. Will the starters play 48 minutes? I assume we’ll see McAdoo.

    • Hooray! Glad to see Bogut get a game off, hope they left him in Oakland. And that’s an interesting line-up. I think they will succeed. Certainly McAdoo, BRush, the Blurr, and Ezeli will get some minutes as well.

      • So who is the backup PG?

        • Uhhh, good question.

        • d’mond-g. has been the secondary ball handler on the court with curry for most of their minutes, and after livingston he’s a better option than barbosa because he knows the plays better than anyone not getting a coach’s salary (and some of those guys will defer to him). the drop off comes with lee and green’s back ups, ezeli and mcadoo.

    • And hope Kerr allows Livingston to run P&R with DLee.

  119. rgg,

    “Lee is also one of two holdovers from the “sins of the past,” though as I recall Lacob once falsely took credit for his acquisition.”

    You have facts wrong. Riley specifically mentioned that he took permission from Lacob before signing Lee and Lacob was all over in favor of Lee’s trade.

    -Q: Did you have input on the David Lee trade?

    -LACOB: I did not. That was Larry’s trade. I did have the approval rights on it. They called me. It was right around the time of when we won the bid and they said, ‘Are you OK with this?’ I guess we could’ve said no.

    There was no way. I immediately… My first reaction was, ‘As fast as you can pull that trigger, pull that trigger.’ Because David Lee is everything that I love about an NBA team.

    He is passionate, he is smart, he is a tough, tough guy. He will not take no for an answer. He’s going to go in and get that rebound. He’s a 20 and 10 guy. Maybe on this team he’s not quite 20 and 10 because we have other people that can score. But he is a great guy.

    He’s the best player in the trade. You always want to get the best player in the trade. And I’m not saying the other three guys we gave up are… but they’re not as good as David Lee or even close.

    • We discussed this, and I’ve forgotten. But Lacob wasn’t even an owner when they acquired Lee was he? I’ve forgotten the timeline, but we didn’t even know who Lacob was. Anybody else? I know this was challenged.

      • Lacob’s ownership was officially approved by the NBA just before preseason training camp started, after the team had already acquired Lee. But to hear Larry Ellison tell it, David Stern had secretly orchestrated the sale of the team to Lacob over Ellison, so there was never any doubt that Lacob’s purchase would be approved.

        It was only natural for Riley to run the Lee trade past Lacob, and yes, Lacob could have scotched it. To his credit, he didn’t. He screwed up other stuff that literally cost the team two whole seasons to start heading in the right direction, but he got it right on the Lee deal.

        • On the other hand, Lacob was slick — “That was Larry’s trade”.

          • Marc,

            On Lacob having more personal stake on Barnes, how does it matter. It is not like he is going to hold on to him at all costs. He offered Barnes in trade, right there the proof as how personal preference wouldn’t matter as much in big scheme of things.

            In the end, dubs have a playoff team 3 years in a row and a contending team, I like to think everyone involved in warriors organization played a big part. Of course, they made few mistakes, but evidence points to that they got more right than wrong.

          • Harry, don’t forget that barely a couple of months after Barnes’ much-hyped performances in the playoffs his rookie year, Lacob shelled out $48 million to bring in someone else to start at Barnes’ position.

      • Lacob’s ownership was pending approval, just a formality at the time Lee was signed. Also, you were wrong when you said Lacob took credit for the trade, he is clearly giving credit to Riley here calling it Larry’s trade. I would have been hesitant to okay the deal before your own front office takes in charge and work on the vision first before committing to so much money. I also remember reading him not in favor of trading Lee even though warriors were bad first two years.

  120. Up above, rgg writes:

    We drive people crazy with speculations, but we don’t get answers from the organization and there’s a lot that’s hard to explain. I wonder if it isn’t Barnes and the FO’s commitment to him that has pushed Lee to the bench. He is the most problematic and perplexing piece.

    Actually, Kerr discusses the subject quite openly in his postgame news conferences, which are routinely posted as audio streams on as part of the game recaps. The reasons he gives are exactly what Marc and Harry (and the article Harry linked) tried to explain to you above.

    • You can’t get a more transparent and non BS coach than Kerr. That is actually discussed in Murph show as how Kerr takes you to locker unlike his predecessor.

    • Only when you buy this:

      “Next to them are usually big wings like Green and Harrison Barnes, who can check many taller players and switch on pick and rolls, stifling most offenses and forcing them to go away from their primary targets. That versatility allows them to pressure teams into mistakes, which then become fast break points.

      “While Lee has his pluses, he’s not a good finisher in transition and he can’t stay with quick perimeter players on switches. That essentially eliminates his chances of playing power forward for heavy minutes.”

      Which sounds more like wishful thinking in Barnes’ case. They are giving him a chance in the hopes he will develop. But he is cheaper.

      So far, all argument about Barnes’ defense and finishing have been this:

      • Well, rgg, you really need to take this up with Steve Kerr. Because he clearly believes Barnes is a vastly superior defender to Lee, gives him more minutes accordingly, and the Warriors’ won-lost record keeps bearing him out.

        If you (or anyone else here, including Feltbot) don’t personally see how Barnes is better defensively, fine. Reality–and the Warriors–will proceed quite happily along without you figuring it out.

        • Well, I watch Barnes. Kerr is following an agenda and trying to make it work.







          • what agenda?? ‘showcase’ as Felt had you believe it ?? Just so you know, the trade deadline has passed. You can stay blind to the truth and facts and Cr*p all over your hate for a 22 year old NBA player.


          • Don’t worry, rgg, I understand. You’re ignorant, but you’ve also built an entire worldview around your ignorance, so you have no intentions of giving up either, no matter how hard anyone tries.

            Fine, I’ll stop trying. Enjoy being a moron, basketball-wise. The rest of us (some of us, anyway) will enjoy learning as we watch what the Warriors are doing.

        • swopa,

          “Lacob shelled out $48 million to bring in someone else to start at Barnes’ position.”

          Good point. Again, it shows the working of a venture capitalist.

      • Kerr’s commented yesterday in Tolbert’s show that more and more teams are playing SFs at PF and hence he prefers Green and Barnes there. To me it looks like pure basketball choice and a choice made to fit to his offense and it is clearly working.

        • Right on, Harry. It’s not a roster that will easily handle throwback ram-it-into-the-paint teams like the Pistons, but it’s one that can be, and has been, hugely successful against the rest.

          Barnes has done well, within his limitations. On offense, a fantastic shooter parked in the corner ain’t nothin’. And on D, Barnes is far more effective against smallball snipers than Lee could ever hope to be. That’s plenty of reason to play Barnes over Lee, given the state of play in the NBA right now.

          Me, I just want Kerr to be more flexible. Lee ain’t chopped liver. Against Memphis/Detroit/Utah/sometimes San Antonio, the Ws should be playing Lee with Bogut and Green.

  121. Ok, one last attempt to see if rgg can get this. Sorry, no hidden agenda as rgg is obsessed with.

    UPDATE: Tim Kawakami of the San Jose Mercury News offers more insight into this story by writing: “Lee eventually lost most of his PF minutes because the Warriors are better when starting small forward Harrison Barnes is also the second unit power forward. Lee has lost most of back-up center playing time because Kerr has leaned to Marreese Speights (for his shooting and size) or starting PF Draymond Green for the minutes behind Andrew Bogut because they do specific things that Lee doesn’t. These days, I’d say even Festus Ezeli is inching ahead of Lee on the center list because he fills a more specific defensive role.”

    Kawakami adds: “In March, with Lee in a decidedly lesser role–and and three DNPs in the last four games–the Warriors are 6-1. In fact, they’re 26-3 when Lee plays less than 10 minutes (or no minutes).”

    “David’s a great player. He’s been an All-Star. He’s still in his prime,” Kerr told CSN Bay Area. “What’s been tricky is that we’ve developed a formula while he was out that has been very effective for us. And you compound that with the fact that the whole league is going small at the 4-position and every night you’re playing a 3-point shooter at the 4 spot. We’ve adapted to that.”

    “We’re winning and we’re having fun,” Lee said. “It’s hard at times. I couldn’t do this if we weren’t winning. But we are. I’m not going to put myself ahead of that.”

    • OK, we’re going in circles. This is the official explanation. Yes, of course they’re good. I’m not at all convinced it will take them to the top. As I’ve been saying all season, the wins are misleading. They caught teams reforming early, such as Utah and Charlotte—but note Utah later. They have faced extraordinary dnp’s from top players in top teams. They have caught good teams that have been up and down while in troughs, such as Toronto and Chicago (look at both team’s records before and after). Etc. There just haven’t been many key match-ups against the top, and they lost both.

      So, get back to me in June, and if they make there, do lay into me. But not Swopa.

      But there are two things I will not give up:

      The numbers for Lee at 4 and 5 last season were superb.

      We do not know how Lee (or Iguodala) will play with the starters because they have NOT played with the starters (Iguodala closes, however). There was never any reason not to try this.

      In Lee’s case, I remember two games he played with the starters:

      Lee had an extraordinary stretch as a sub with the starters.

      And this game preseason:

      This has to be unprecedented in the NBA, that two starters are moved to the bench for at best a hopeful. And I do not understand it.

      Two notes on Barnes:

      He is playing heavy minutes, including garbage time, for an obvious reason. They are still trying to get him going. No serious starter does that.

      We may be seeing Livingston taking his minutes at 3. It’s what we’ve seen the last games.

      • “We may be seeing Livingston taking his minutes at 3. It’s what we’ve seen the last games”

        Kerr’s talk is not same as MJ’s BS if you can read it. He clearly saying why he is doing what.

        How is it possible that Kerr following owners agenda and then give Barnes minutes to Livingston? Of course Barnes is playing heavy minutes, he is 22 year old player who needs minutes to develop his game.

        I expect Barnes minutes go down too with Iguodala and Livingston getting more minutes at SF but then it goes against everything you are obsessed with.

        • It will be a sign that the Barnes project is not working well. They gave it their best shot, and then some. You have to admit, Livingston’s minutes took us all by surprise. And you’re guessing about Iguodala. Nothing we’ve seen yet indicates that.

      • the regular season wins, which very possibly could mean home court for every round they play in the post season, won’t be misleading at all, if they can break the ten win barrier in the playoffs. at this point, only post season losses will prove them wrong about their convictions that they’re best with only marginal contributions from lee. and should they falter, the fingers won’t point at the missed lessons of the regular season, but at the usual suspects — poor shooting by thompson, green (partisans tend to also whinge about his fouls incl. his technicals of course), iguodala, erratic play from speights.

        • care to point ‘missed lessons’ ? I have found this coaching staff experimenting with line ups and not afraid to make changes to line ups like never before.

          • Have they ever changed the starting lineup, other than a sub for an injured player? I can’t recall an instance.

          • in the second quarter of most games this season, they’ve relied on variations closely resembling a ‘b squad’. if they tried to fashion anything viable and consistent from those units with their best reserves (lee, iguodala, livingston), it was difficult to tell with that experimenting you praised.

            if there were other ‘missed lessons’, expect to see them exposed in the post season. perhaps the coaching will be so exemplary there won’t be any.

        • I predict utterly ambiguous results that will have us shouting at each other all next year. We’re happier that way, anyway.

          • for my purposes they’re on a pass/fail, no ambiguities. either they exceed ten post season wins or they don’t.

      • BTW, did you just read your own sht*k how the whole league bent backwards to give warriors all the wins with DNPs for best players. It is 82 games season, Lacob must have paid off all those teams. Because that is what it will take for warriors win like they did, 7 games better than next team in the conference. You have no idea how ridiculous you sound.

        guess, that is all the stupidity I can take for a day, have a nice day.

        • Durant did not play in 1 1/2 of GSW wins against OKC, Westbrook missed one, Lebron missed the Cleveland loss, Howard missed 2 Warrior wins and was obviously hobbled the win before he went down. Etc. Etc. Etc. The list is long.

          • Warriors were leading when Durant went out after 30 pt burst, Howard played or not wouldn’t matter and how the hell is dubs problem that Lebron was out. Stay with your obsession, suits you.

        • harry, trying to reform rgg’s psyche isn’t worth the effort. He’s obsessed with the notion that Lacob is a venal egomaniac, and Barnes is Exhibit A. His problem isn’t even with Barnes.

          Yeah, Barnes is the worst starter on the team. So what? He makes a damn good contribution with his spot-up shooting, and on D he does things Lee simply can’t do.

          I’d actually take Barnes over Livingston any day. I HATE seeing Livingston spin his butt toward the hoop to inch toward a shot. You wanna go for a post-up score, play Lee.

          • Agree. Just frustrated at work, come here for relief and gets all this and I overreacted.

            As much as I like Barnes as shooter over Livingston thought blitzes were handled better with Livingston there.

  122. Art Vandelay

    Poor Lee getting absolutely destroyed early by Faried. Let’s hope he turns it around.

  123. Fitzgerald, in a graphic, gave Bogut credit for turning Warrior defense around in 2012-13—the season he missed 50+ games.

  124. Denver:

    Something for everyone!

    Lee haters!
    Livingston haters!
    Bob Myers haters!
    Kerr doubters!

    Faried was absolutely the worst matchup for Lee possible, as was Kerr’s relentless posting him up on offense. It’s as if Kerr wanted to embarrass Lee. Either way, the results were the same. Lee has soldiered everything this organization has thrown at him, from Smart and Kwame Brown on down, and will continue to be a soldier when they send him out the back door.

    Swopa, do you think the faster, more athletic Barnes, “who can check many taller players and switch on pick and rolls, stifling most offenses and forcing them to go away from their primary targets,” could have stayed on Faried? If so, I have another graphic for you.

    Ezeli, obviously, was a better matchup. Or see below. Let Green play 3, or anchor the subs, or just take a break.

    The announcers just asked this: why not crossmatch Green and Lee on Faried and Gallinari?

    Rush looks like he’s hiding inside himself.


    The game was close, in fact respectable.

    We got to see Holiday pop it up. I don’t know if he’ll get enough time to be useful for the playoffs. And Barbosa popped in several. Likely we’ll see him.

    And I got to see what I wanted to see: McAdoo. He sees the court and is sharp and quick and aggressive on both ends of the court. He looks to create shots. He drives and can handle. He doesn’t hesitate. On defense he looks to crash for boards. He is aggressive and gets in players’ faces. He looks like a defender. This is what a defender looks like.

    A few years at UNC, mostly D-League, and he is 22 years old. Where did he learn these things? He has them, and has been developing them his entire basketball life.

    Who else played a few years at UNC, is 22, and, incidentally has almost 3 full years of NBA experience—and doesn’t have the vision or the quickness or the aggression? Barnes does not have these things. Barnes has not learned these things. Barnes will not learn these things. Barnes will never have these things.

    Barnes is a friggin’ bust.

    • I would tend to agree rgg, if Barnes were a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd pick. He improved his shooting, except for the recent slump, and rebounding, his D is OK and perhaps he will continue to improve on these and the other skills and court awareness. He seems to be one of those slow learners.

  125. Dallas wins tonight with a little help from its backup point guards—30 points.

  126. No doubt, as rgg points out above and also Felt in his tweets, DLee was placed in the worse possible situation for him, but still…

    • Both defensively and offensively.

    • just as well we can’t penetrate what goes on in the hearts and minds of our fellow humanoids, ’cause then there’s no mystery whether kerr consciously or subconsciously made it impossible for lee to succeed in a rare chance to start and finish a game.

  127. McAdoo and Holiday looked good. Any chance they get minutes during the playoffs? Ezeli also looked good to me, as usual. I’ll be disappointed if he don’t play significant playoff minutes.

    • typically, developmental rookies won’t see critical minutes ( = nearly every minute in the playoffs if there are no avalanches) without some alignment of bad health, foul problems, or to give fouls in situational substitutions. of course there might come desperate moments begging for desperate measures — holiday and mcadoo have quickness and speed over iguodala (though we could see a playoff version revival, and he was a tremendous athlete not long ago), barnes, or speights.

  128. Where did Barnes disappear to? The guy is in a shooting slump. Hope he pulls out of it by the playoffs. If not, consider some of his minutes for Livingston and Iguodala, I would think, and Green would have to log 40+, since Barnes spells Green at the 4, and Kerr will not play DLee.

    • some players in barnes’ situation this game could have drawn motivation and focus, responding to the absence of most of the team’s vet core. not his style, just another chapter out of eighty two.

    • where did barnes disappear to? the 2nd team, where he belongs, and because he doesnt have curry + thompson next to him, *poof*

      i’m sorry, but the most compelling defense i have read about this good looking kid is ‘he’s 22, he’ll learn’ – to which my response is ‘great, but on the pistons (or wherever) – not in the starting 5 of a team that’s supposedly making a run.

      someone above said they’d take barnes over SL – you are tripping. SL, despite his significant limitations, is a natural basketball player.

      i have learned so much reading this site, learning to think. my thoughts after watching this game are that:
      1. a good – not great – coach could have gotten a win tonight, with that able squad
      2. kerr is an OK rookie coach. not bad. certainly not an excellent coach yet. getting better at substitutions, especially against other poor or rookie coaches. has nice plays out of timeouts.
      3. the warriors will go as far as their superstars take them this year, no farther. nights they shoot poorly will be losses.

      every schoolyard player knows how to run the pick and roll. when you play 1 on 1, its post ups and drives, and outside shots. if the shots fall, they have to guard you closer, so you can drive.

      as soon as you have 2 on 2, you can run PNR, and the whole game opens up.

      watching lee and SL post up repeatedly – while f*cking denver was running the high PNR repeatedly – was torture, and the sign of a rookie coach who is 2 seasons away from ‘getting it’.

      • thank you, roberto. my own hypothesis on the team and kerr is similar to yours, that the players’ post season inexperience (barbosa the only guy whose teams have reached the third round) under a rookie coach will become apparent in May. blatt is the other rookie coach who might get his team to the finals, but he had 100’s of games on the bench including championships, compared to kerr’s zero.

      • I was watching the Cavs-Spurs game the other night. Plenty of effective Parker-Duncan P&R. Why didn’t Kerr pick that up from them while he was there? The Hawks ran it on the Warriors and won.

        • Baffling isn’t it? A huge part of Pop and Bud’s repertoire. An indication that Kerr’s mentor in this regard is Phil Jackson. Who notably blew a finals, imo, with his refusal to run Kobe-Gasol PNR.

      • Except Barnes can’t perform with the 2nd. unit. We have seen that this year and last year, amply.

        Barnes arrived in the NBA with an inflated notion of his potential and obvious limitations in skills, well noted by scouts. What Barnes should have been given is what has made good and sometimes great players, the chance to prove himself and fight his way into the starting lineup. That process builds confidence and character. He may have needed to spend time in the D-League or even Europe, out of the limelight and the Kleig lights of Lacob’s promotion.

        Instead, the starting role was handed to him on a silver platter. The assumption was that if he were supported—and he’s been supported by three of the best players in the NBA—he would build confidence. But really this has limited his development, as he only takes select shots where he feels safe. The staff has tried to get him to be more aggressive, but he is still tentative and the results haven’t been good at all.

        Maybe Kerr is still learning. Or maybe he’s being blind or bullheaded. But the system he’s running for the subs doesn’t fit the talent he has, especially Lee, who has always performed well with more open court. The evidence has been overwhelmingly obvious—and painful.

      • +1 Your frustration matched mine Roberto.

  129. Art Vandelay

    Can one of the “Lee at Center” or “Lee as a starter” endorsers please offer a defense for the guy’s performance today?

    All the Kerr remarks aside, I thought Lee was nothing but a liability, and I say that as someone who rates his basketball talent.

    One thing I did notice was that Lee essentially filled Bogut’s (and to a lesser extent, Green’s) role as Center on both ends with an extra few post ups thrown in on offense. Unlike Bogut, he doesn’t deter smaller players who penetrate and he can’t recover as well as Green does when they do.

    So I’m left wondering whether or not Lee can contribute in this role. Maybe alongside Bogut? Maybe alongside Green? Is this why he has fallen out of the rotation? Whatever the case may be, I still want to see Kerr utilise him in some way and I refuse to believe he is of no use to the Warriors this season.

    • nothing to do with endorsing nor degrading lee, but if kerr wished to ‘honour’ the vet by starting him and having him close, and seriously intended to win, why not close with ezeli + lee + green. nor was green played at all in the fourth in a close game. why not rest him the entire game — his minutes are comparable to curry’s, as is the game stress and activity level he takes on.

      my completely subjective and irreverent theory — kerr needed to check off a box in the n.b.a. coach’s manual. the lesson, ‘how to tank a game without being too obvious’.

    • Take a look at Lee’s defensive numbers at center last year, and his past 3 years performance against Faried (starting Ezeli’s rookie season), and consider what was different about last night.

      Things to consider: 1) matchup with regard to position 2) system 3) opponent’s system 4) whether his coach was trying to win 5) whether his teammates showed up 6) who had responsibility to guard Faried when Lee switched PNR 7) who had responsibility to box out Faried when Lee was forced to give help on penetration

      8) What the game would have looked like if Faried and Lee had switched teams, and Lee had gotten 20 PNR assaults on the Warriors middle with Green pulled all the way out to the 3 pt line by Gallinari, while Faried was forced into static postups, and trying to run a motion offense.

  130. Can always count on Barnes to trip on his own feet when presented with an opportunity to step up.

  131. cosmicballoon

    I would give McAdoo Barnes minutes the rest of the season. Barnes doesn’t have ‘it’. McAdoo does. Just listen to Barnett.

    • The argument, of course, is that you lose the stretch 4. But Barnes only takes about 2.5 3s per game, and only when he is dead open. Also he should be able to drive from that position since the floor is spaced, but he won’t and can’t.

      McAdoo, while he can’t shoot from 3, can drive and last night showed a midrange. He is aggressive and works to tax a defense, the whole point of Kerr’s scheme. And he sure looks a lot better on defense for so many reasons.

      You saw him at SC right? Anything else to report. I know he was a disappointment at UNC, but he sure is hustling hard now and showing some stuff. He has an edge.

    • Kerr, of course, will defend Barnes. And he will defend him by explaining his system, as we’ve seen cited here several times. We have no idea what Kerr and the other coaches really think about Barnes, or what they see in practice. They won’t tell us, and there’s no reason they should.

    • There is going to be a lot of confusion about McAdoo’s position going forward, because of his size and slim body. Just as there was a lot of confusion about Brandan Wright’s position while he was here.

      McAdoo is not a three. Can’t defend 3s. Can’t shoot.

      More difficult for people to understand is that he’s not even a four yet. (I include Warriors management in this, but not Kerr. Kerr gets it.) Again, because he can’t shoot the 15 footer. I’ve seen rumors he’s working on a 3ball. We’ll see.

      Four is also a more difficult position to defend than five, because it involves more complicated rotational responsibilities out on the floor. Something Brandan Wright was never able to grasp, according to Don Nelson. Tyler couldn’t either. I haven’t seen enough of McAdoo yet to judge his defensive IQ.

      Until such time as he becomes a credible shooter, he’s a backup running 5. And he clearly has the potential to be a much better player at the position than BW.

      • cosmicballoon

        McAdoo’s future position is as a hustling stretch 4. Longer than Barnes, more adept at basketball things and is able to attack the basket.

        Barnett has said that McAdoo is learning to shoot the 3. What I have heard is that McAdoo’s release is still too slow. He has not been taking 3s at Santa Cruz…he does much of the same stuff we saw last night. I have no doubt he can learn the corner 3 like Barnes has, tho.

        • We’re hearing that stretch four is his future position, because (looking strictly at his body and athleticism) that’s what management dearly wants to make him, not because that’s what he is. They dearly wanted to make Jeremy Tyler a four too, and the European Derrick Rose an NBA point guard…

          Didn’t we hear something similar about Brandan Wright, “as soon as he gets an outside shot”? Soon never came.

          And didn’t we hear the same thing about another “small forward”, Anthony Randolph? Never happened.

          I haven’t seen it. When I do see it, I’ll believe it. Not before.

        • If he can’t shoot, he’s not stretching anything.

      • Thanx for the clarification.

    • Exactly.

      • I mean the part about Barnes not getting it. It can be credibly argued Barnes will learn and get it. Remains to be seen. I don’t see his court awareness or handling skills so far.

  132. Mark jackson was an oldschool walk it up, exploit mismatches in the 1 on 1 pt guard. Who did run the pick and roll as a player.

    I can’t remember steve kerr running much PNR as a player. Someone help me here but I remember him as the deadly little off ball guy who killed on spot up 3 pointers.

    Maybe its just a “DNA as a player” thing.

  133. Just checkin the scores.
    Will the Dubs put up 140 tonite?
    They should. This Knick team would be an underdog in the tourney. But they’d have a shot, unlike in the NBA

    • Nope. Puttin in BrandonR didnt help. And I like BRush. Hes shown he can board and block shots. His shot’s just MIA, but in the past he’s shown he can hit the three. Odd

      I guess set in stone is a little premature. But to make a prediction you have to pick someone, and I’ll stick with mine of GS-OKC 1st rd.

    • Kind of relaxing, tho, no? Nothing like a blowout to ease the troubled soul.


    Knicks say they are starting to run more P&R and less triangle.

    Kerr says the Warriors running a combination Jerry Sloan and “triangle principles” offense.

    • The article also claims the Knicks will pursue the Blazers Matthews and the Warriors Green.

      • cosmicballoon

        The Knicks radio guy mentioned Green and Matthews in the pregame interview with Tim Roye. He basically said that the Knocks are looking at mid level free agents to pair with Carmelo.

    • perhaps the team’s robust win total has acted as an intoxicant, but some partisans like to compare the team to another juggernaut that put up some gaudy totals, the jordan-pippen teams of course. to this amateur observer, the teams have scant resemblance to one another. in one minor aspect, the centers weren’t expected to provide much interior scoring, but Chi had their de facto lead guard pippen and combo wing jordan giving them scores around the rim and from the foul line from taking the ball inside, definitely not the m.o. of curry and thompson. should the latter pair reach the finals this year, the comparisons are likely to persist.

      with his second season coming, will we be subjected to kerr continuing to fiddle with triangle variations. he obviously has many tests coming between now and July, but we might need to prepare for the worst. so far kerr only has the younger walton who’s worked with the triangle on staff, but not expecting them to let the Chi monolith remain buried like ozymandias.

      • Its still amazing and a bit poetic to me that 40 years later we finally have another legit shot at the Crown. I’m not so confident that GS will do it, more apprehensive, but I know that we have just as good a shot as anyone. At this point I just want the damn playoffs to start.

        I have a weird disconnect with Oaktown despite living just across the bridge. Both my brothers emigrated to the outer EastBay burbs and I’m always passing through and rarely stopping. Before this year, the last time I set foot in Lake Merritt was 25 years ago. And I remember this because it was a college assignment to visit the museum. I brought my best friend along and remeber nothing about the museum, but do recall two beautiful Latina girls we eventually frightened off. Funny how the mind works.
        I’d be remiss Moto if I didnt mention the place I kept eating at near the Lake. Its the Lago Grill right across the from the Oakland public Library. I know you voiced your concerns about dining in establishments such as this, but for a mex-Amer taqueria its above ave. The Senora is from Guanajuato and we had some nice conversation. I gotta get back down there before I get to chocho.

        The breakfast burrito w chorizo and a big cup of coffee will get your stomach rumbling. Then other body parts.

  135. I have nothing to say, but put up a clean thread. Apologies to those who posted this morning, and please feel free to cut and paste your work onto the new thread.